Skydiving from 25 Miles Up 282
chisox writes "The Observer has a story about a retired French army colonel who is soon to make a free fall parachute jump from 25 miles up. In the process he will break the sound barrier, reaching a top speed of mach 1.68 before he opens his parachute 1,000 metres above the Earth. Of course, if the chute doesn't open, the hole he'll make will be about 1,000 metres deep." Well, actually his max speed will be high up and near the earth the atmosphere will have slowed him down to terminal velocity.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:His Ears (Score:1)
Re:His Ears (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:His Ears (Score:5, Informative)
I am more interested in how much his suit would heat up if his chute doesn't open due to air resistance and decreasing terminal velocity.`
Re:His Ears (Score:3, Interesting)
No... (Score:2, Informative)
The last attempt, five miles lower, got pretty close to the speed of sound, this should do it. Not sure how safe it would be, but he should break it.
Of course, if his chute doesn't open, he becomes his own airbrake and bursts into flames.
Re:No... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No... (Score:2)
You must be imagining that anything falling from space must be falling from orbit, and therefore has to deal with reentry. Not so--he's jumping from a stationary balloon held aloft by buoyancy, not by the momentum of an orbiting spacecraft.
This raises another question though: if they are considering this as an escape route for shuttle or space station passengers, then they will have to deal with re-entry. I wonder how they plan to do that...
Re:His Ears (Score:2, Funny)
He's Toast!
Re:His Ears (Score:4, Funny)
Do French sonic booms sound more romantic to chicks than American sonic booms?
Re:His Ears (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, no. The sonic boom is never heard by the body traveling at supersonic speeds, wether it be plane, rocket, or person. Concorde passengers are unaffected by the boom.
The conical shock waves never touch. At least they aren't supposed to. Now, since a person is thin like a rocket, I am sure he won't have to worry about shock waves.
Re:His Ears (Score:2)
Read the article (Score:2)
I have to admit, considering applications of this, such as parachuting from a Space Shuttle, IIS, etc, it does make you wonder why something like this has not been undertaken by any government agency.
RonB
Re:Read the article (Score:1)
I don't know about you, but my IIS is safely locked in the server room!
Re:Read the article (Score:3, Funny)
Sorry, couldn't resist..
Re:Read the article (Score:5, Informative)
This has been done. I'm not sure why we forget. In 1960, Joe Kittenger jumped from ~20 miles, breaking the sound barrier. See:
http://www.dropzone.com/news/SpaceParachutingSk
A.
ps: I'm sorry that
Re:Read the article (Score:4, Informative)
I consider the several links on that page as a good cross-section of sources, and from what I read, I agree with Kittenger himself that the most reliable information is that he achieved 90% of the speed of sound at his altitude. The most credible information was that his top speed was 614mph, and that somebody somewhere made a typo of 714, hence many sources believed he broke the speed of sound. It turned into one of those urban myths. There was no evidence at all that he broke the sound barrier, and reasonably solid data that he didn't, and the man himself agreed with the 614mph data. Also, the math agrees with this, showing that another 1300m or so of altitude is needed to break the sound barrier.
It's not like everybody was out there with their own altitude radar taking measurements. I'll side with Kittenger's own opinion, that the radar reading was the most reliable, and that the man himself is more likely to be correct than a few sensationalist storytellers.
So when the data and the people involved say he didn't break the sound barrier, I'd say that's the closest to definitive that we have.
Disclaimer: No, I don't believe anything simply because it's posted on a website. But I remain happy to disagree with you. Enjoy!
However, his later jump... (Score:3, Informative)
MOOSE - Personal Re-Entry Kit (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Parachuting from space? (Score:3, Interesting)
But the shuttle is also moving around the earth VERY quickly.. something like 17,000 kph (feel free to correct me), which would kill you pretty much instantly when you encountered the atmosphere, and had to slow down your sideways speed.
Force? (Score:2)
Re:Force? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Force? (Score:1)
I don't think he'd try to use the parachute when he's going faster than the speed of sound, since I think that would hurt more than the parachute (him)
-Sara
Re:Force? (Score:2)
The parachute will open at just about any speed as long as he is falling. It'll open at as little as 10-20 mph, and if he wants it to, it'll open at 500-600 mph. He'd have to be brain-dead to open at this speed though...since kinetic energy depends on the square of velocity, he would be putting an incredible strain on the parachute (which likely wouldn't survive opening at this speed) and himself.
Re:Force? (Score:1)
He should be ok unless he weighs as much as a car or soemthing just as strange (maybe 300+ kilograms??). I haven't seen his picture yet
Re:Force? (Score:2)
1000 feet? Let's hope he pulls higher than that. At 1000 feet, terminal velocity is around 120 mph, which means that you have about five seconds until impact. If you take into consideration that some parachutes are packed or designed to snivel on opening, 1000 feet may even be too low for him. He could use his reserve, which according to FAA TSO guidelines must open within 300 feet, but an opening that quick would damage the reserve.
Generally, when jumps from this high are made, they pull at 10000-15000 feet. I've pulled this high before (I pulled right after I got out of the airplane) -- the view is INCREDIBLE.
Re:Force? (Score:2)
Guess not...my reserve deployment was a cutaway from a spinning malfunction, but it wasn't anywhere near terminal.
Re:Force? (Score:2, Informative)
I have been doing a jump from 22000 ft = 6700 meters. And I also experienced the thin air, making it more difficult to turn, and my speed max was around 300 km/h, where it normally tops at 200 km/h on a normal skydive.
At deployment time (1000 meters / 3500 ft), the thick air near the planet had slowed me to below 180 km/h.
Re:Force? (Score:2)
Yeah! You're right! Maybe he shouldn't use those standard bargain parachutes you buy at Wal-Mart!
*mutters and shakes head*
Re:Force? (Score:2, Informative)
The force on the parachute when it opens is due to air resistance, which is (roughly) proportional to speed, not acceleration.
The OP's thoughts were probably something along the lines of "Since he's falling for much longer, won't he be going much faster, and hence won't the force on the 'chute be huge?"
The answer is almost certainly "no" though - as he falls, air density increases, creating an extra drag force on the parachutist, slowing him down. So when he pulled the ripcord, he'd only be falling at about the terminal velocity of a skydiver at 1000m. Therefore the 'chute would be subject to similar forces to those of a normal skydiver.
Where Did He Get the Funding??? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Where Did He Get the Funding??? (Score:2)
If you can't do it, that doesn't mean it can't be done.
Re:Where Did He Get the Funding??? (Score:2, Insightful)
As Slashdotters we should recognize people trying to do "crazy" things are the ones who expand the frontiers of our society. Would you also have nominated the lunar Apollo teams for the darwin awards?
If slashdot were around in 1633 perhaps we would also be the first to condemn Galileo as a heretic lune.
Re:Where Did He Get the Funding??? (Score:2)
This guy has balls.
Re:Where Did He Get the Funding??? (Score:2, Funny)
What, he hasn't sold those, too?
Impressive. (Score:1)
Re:Impressive. (Score:1)
Ouch.
Jumping from a putter-putt plane is expensive enough.
-Sara
Re:Impressive. (Score:2)
Terminal Velocity (Score:1)
Physics (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, actually his max speed will be high up and near the earth the atmosphere will have slowed him down to terminal velocity.
Well, actually he'll be at terminal velocity for nearly the entire time... Terminal velocity is dependant on the density of the atmosphere. You'd think that someone that posted a link to a page which defined "terminal velopcity" would have at least read the definition...
Big Airy Sponges... (Score:2, Interesting)
But as he falls, the atmosphere will be thickening around him, and the "terminal velocity" will decrease. Which is kind of cool, because he'll be slowing down as he's falling!
The atmosphere is like a big, airy sponge around the Earth...
Re:Physics (Score:4, Interesting)
Nope. At that altitude you are practically in a vacuum. He will accelerate for close to half the distance. You haven't hit terminal velosity untill you stop accelerating. That won't happen until his altitude gets down to around 70,000 to 90,000 feet where the atmosphere starts thickening up.
After he does hit terminal velocity, the atmosphere will thiken rapidy. The local value (for that altitude) of terminal velocity will drop rapidly. The air resistance will exceed the force of gravity and he will start slowing down, bleeding off his inertia. He will actually be ABOVE the local terminal velocity during this process - pretty much the second half of his trip.
-
Re:Physics (Score:2)
Terminal velocity is the balance point where drag and gravity match resulting in no change in speed. It is approached asymtoticly from EITHER side.
And if you re-read my post more carefully you'll see that I specificly said that he'd be above terminal velocity for pretty much the last half of the trip.
-
others trying same stunt (Score:2, Interesting)
1000 metres (Score:4, Funny)
Re:1000 metres (Score:2, Funny)
Yeah, we like to call those airplanes B-52's.
It's Been Done (Score:1)
I remember (Score:1)
I want to say that this was on TLC or Discovery Channel. Can't remember anything else about it.
Actually... (Score:2, Informative)
If the cute doesn't open, the crater he makes will be the same size if jumps from 25 miles or 10,000 feet. That's how terminal velocity works. Sure he'll break Mach 1 in the thin air aloft, but as he gets to into progressivly thicker air he'll be slowed to the same 55 m/s as any other skydiver. As long as he doesn't tuck into a ball or go head first, that is.
Re:Actually... (Score:2)
I believe that's why they use Mach instead of specifying an actual velocity or speed.
MM
--
natural selection? (Score:2, Funny)
1) solid fuel boosters can't be stopped; once they're ignited they burn till they're used up.
2) at 400 miles per hour those cliffs way off on the horizon approach much faster than you'd have thought.
3) it doesn't really matter how hard you push in on the brake pedal if the car is being propelled by something they use for jet-assisted takeoff of military cargo planes.
Re:natural selection? (Score:2, Informative)
4) Everyone in Slashdot knows the story and knows that it is an urban legend (U) for untrue.
Re:natural selection? (Score:2)
However, apart from the story there is no corroborating evidence to back it up. Right?
Re:natural selection? (Score:2)
Also more info here [ucsd.edu].
Where this Urban Legend Comes From (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/RocketCar/rockit
There ya go again... (Score:1, Offtopic)
25 Miles = 40.2336 Kilometers
1.68 Mach [dry air, 273 Kelvin] = 2005.6498391999999 kilometers/hour
For the insane people out there... here's some unit conversions:
1 Kilometer = 0.621371 Miles
12 Inches = 1 Foot
3 Feet = 1 Yard
1 Mile = 1,760 Yards
1 Mile = 5,280 Feet
1 Miles = 63,360 Inches
Just to give you a taste of some saner things:
1000 millimeter = 1 meter
100 centimeter = 1 meter
1000 meter = 1 kilometer
But wait! There's more!
1000 milliliter = 1 liter
100 centiliter = 1 liter
1000 liter = 1 kiloliter
Just go to onlineconversions [onlineconversion.com] and have fun!
parachute necessary? (Score:1)
If this isn't possible, I wonder how close to possible it is. I saw a *really* high-diving competition on TV (not at a pool, but off a cliff) and I'll bet those guys were getting up towards triple-digit speeds.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:parachute necessary? (Score:2)
As a licensed skydiver, I will say that the Worst-Case Scenario Survival handbook is full of shit. They have a section on how to survive if your parachute doesn't open; part of what they tell you to do is signal to other jumpers in the air that your parachute won't open, dock on them, and hold on to them until landing. First of all, everybody else will have deployed by the time you realize you're in trouble, and even if there were people with you, you wouldn't have time to dock onto them, get a good grip on them, and let them pull. It would take a VERY good grip on them too -- the deceleration of them pulling with the added weight of you hanging on would make holding on a bit difficult.
What they don't tell you is what you are taught over and over and over again during your student training -- if your parachute doesn't work, pull your friggin' reserve!
It is blatantly obvious to me that whoever wrote that book never took a lick of skydiving training. They have NO business telling people what to do in a situation like that. Their advice wouldn't help you; it would more than likely kill you. Look at this book as nothing more than a humor book...you're putting yourself in danger if you take it seriously.
Re:parachute necessary? (Score:2)
It's been done before, but, there's no way you can hold on to the other person with hands alone. Put your arms inside their harness, entangle as much as you can, wait for them to pull, hope your arms don't break. Now, providing the canopy and lines hold, you have a chance to survive, with modern small <120sqft canopies the chance isn't that big, but there's at least a chance.
Microlines would prolly be very painful for a brief moment until they snap.
Although, the technique is, as you said, pointless really, no one will be around. Once your main has failed, you deploy reserve, if that doesn't work, your buddies will most likely be long gone already, and on a normal jump you'll be at <2000ft with <10 seconds until impact...
Re:parachute necessary? (Score:2)
This is what the Guinness Book of Records has to say:
It is estimated that the human body reaches 99% of its low-level terminal velocity after falling 573m 1880ft which takes 13-14 sec. This is 117-125mph at normal atmospheric pressure and in a
random posture.
(At the 1100 ft Emley Moor TV mast near me they reckon that you would reach terminal velocity (great term) well before hitting the ground)
Longest fall without a parachute:
World: Vesna Vulovic (Yugoslavia, wherever that is now), stewardess in a DC-9 which blew up at 10160m 33330ft over Serbska Kamenice, Czechoslovakia, 26 Jan 1972.
UK: Flt-Sgt Nicholas Steven Alkemade (d. 22 Jun 1987) from a blazing Lancaster bomber at 5485m 18000ft over Germany (near Oberkuerchen) on 23 Mar 1944.
On a mathematical note, the acceleration force is always constant, whereas the drag increases as the square of the speed. The line reaches an asymptote at about 125mph. Interestingly though,
it is actually the 0mph bit at the end which actually kills you.
Wrong, but right (Score:2, Informative)
However, you're absolutely right in that it's not that hard to safely dive from much greater heights. I've personally seen people do 30 metre dives at acquatic shows.
Re:parachute necessary? (Score:5, Informative)
few [parachutehistory.com] on land.
Take off, eh?!? (Score:2, Funny)
Rich people in space (Score:1)
I could imaging sending someone to an altitude lower than the ISS and letting them take a long skydive.
Interesting experience... but could they ensure survival? I'm sure the standard extreme sport waiver forms would still apply
Does "Mach 1.68" make any sense? (Score:3, Informative)
ISTR that the speed of sound changes with air pressure and it's faster when the pressure is lower. The speed of sound at sea level is around 300 m/sec so mach 1.68 at sea level would be around 500 m/sec.
But at 100,000 feet, the speed of sound in that thin air might be 1000 m/sec. So if the guy is falling at 500 m/sec at that altitude, that's really just half the speed of sound there. If he's falling at 1700 m/sec, that sounds awful, sonic booms and all that kind of thing.
So what's the deal?
Re:Does "Mach 1.68" make any sense? (Score:2, Informative)
Maybe you should read the article before asking questions about it?
Re:Does "Mach 1.68" make any sense? (Score:4, Informative)
Try the other way. It's faster when the pressure is higher. The more closer together the molecules, the easier it is for them to collide and spread the sound. The speed of sound in a solid is a couple times higher than in air.
If you're insterested: in perfect gases, v=(p*k/rho)^(1/2), with pressure p, k=Cp/Cv, and density rho.
So the speed of sound (Mach 1) at high altitude is way lower, in terms of absolute speed, than near the ground. Mach 1.68 at 25 miles is probably not even the same absolute speed (m/s) than Mach 1 at ground level. In a sufficiently rarified atmosphere (eg Mars), you might even be able to run faster than sound! How's that?
Re:Does "Mach 1.68" make any sense? (Score:2)
The same publication lists the soundspeed at sea level as 340.29 m/s, and 302.03 m/s at an altitude of 100,000 ft.
-Sean
Landing site? (Score:4, Funny)
I hope he does it near my hometown. I always wanted to visit that crater in Arizona, but it is too far and too hot.
We need a local one.
kittinger - The longest leap (Score:5, Informative)
[tsixroads.com]. ht ml
http://www2.tsixroads.com/Corinth_MLSANDY/jk004
including an amazing shot of him taken from the gondola from which he jumped:
[tsixroads.com]t h_ images/jk20.jpg
http://www2.tsixroads.com/Corinth_MLSANDY/corin
Better Picture (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Better Picture (Score:2)
I think I see drawers.
Re:Better Picture (Score:2)
Re:Better Picture (Score:2)
My preference in the pictures though is for the one that appeared on the Life cover - an expanse of cloud mass, that looks like it's photographed from orbit/high up - and a wee speck of a man in a space suit sticking one leg out to control his fall. You just get an amazing sense of how extreme his jump was, as the background and the man look more like the images we've seen of astronauts on EVA than of a man parachuting to earth. The only clue: no umbilical.
Though the picture you posted a link to is technically more interesting as you get a much better view of his kit, i like the cover picture better for it's sense of perspective.
A Timeline (Score:5, Funny)
A.D.2002: A retired French army colonel makes his skydive from 25 miles up. As he approaches mach 1.68, a bright flash is seen, and he vanishes. For years, the mystery of what happened to him remains unsolved.
A.D.2042: It is discovered that at the moment the retired colonel reached mach 1.68, he caused a rift in the space-time continuum and travelled 65 million years back in time and slammed into the earth at 1200MPH, creator a crator and wiping out dinosaur life.
Re:A Timeline (Score:2)
65 million years ago, the dinosaurs disappeared mysteriously from the earth, supposedly caused by an impact from a meteor or piece of comet.
A.D.2002: A retired French army colonel makes his skydive from 25 miles up. His chute* fails to open and he makes a large crater. Experts measuring the crater realize how luck we are that he didn't weigh several tons...
And in that instant new theory about extreme sports among the dinosaurs is born.
-- MarkusQ
* If it fails to open, is it still called a "shoot" or would the proper now be "a fuck"?
Re:A Timeline (Score:2)
Dinosours became extinct because of falling meteors.
Stupid humans are becomming extinct by *being* meteors.
Dangerous Ascent (Score:3, Funny)
If you want more info on his jump... (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.legrandsaut.org/
or straight to the english version:
http://www.legrandsaut.org/ressources/gb/gb_pag
He has some movies and facts and explanations and interviews....etc
Skydiving from 25 Miles Up (Score:4, Interesting)
No one has gotten sick jumping out of an airplane at night as many times as I have.
I keep waiting for someone to try to break my record. They are all afraid to try!
See it here: http://AICommand.com/PukeDuke.htm
Guru312
Re:Skydiving from 25 Miles Up (Score:2)
Isn't that a biohazard? All that stuff is going to land *somewhere*.
Unless, perhaps you have never heard of this important rule: "Never puke into the wind".
BTW, if it makes you sick, then why do you keep doing it? I never found puking pleasent in the least amount.
Good Timing... (Score:2)
Sonic "click" (Score:2, Interesting)
now, all this relies on air pressure! If our skydiver hits the speed of sound up where there isn't any air to speak of, then he's not going to experience much of a boom at all now, is he?
This is not to say nothing of the fact that the boom appears to occur behind the cause, from the pilot's, or in our case the intrepid colonel's perspective. (that is, he is moving away from the sound at the speed of sound.)
NO BOOM PEOPLE, GET IT?
Well, there's the end of JBoss! (Score:2)
Heating by friction (Score:2)
He's not the only one (Score:2)
"If her plans succeed, on Sept 3, 2003, she'll ride a balloon to 130,000 feet, jump out in a McConnell Air Force Base pressurized space suit and free fall to Earth nearly 25 miles below -- landing somewhere within 70 miles of Wichita."
he is ALWAYS at terminal velocity (Score:2)
at that high altitude, mach 1.6 IS his terminal velocity.....
Close Harmoney (Score:3, Funny)
Cool.
Misread (Score:2, Funny)
First time I read the story, I thought it said "a retarded French army colonel who is soon to make a free fall parachute jump from 25 miles up."
AJS
last record set in 1966? (Score:2)
Re:Wouldn't be cool if he died (Score:1)
Yeah, I'm looking forward to post-postmodernism.
Re:Wouldn't be cool if he died (Score:1)
Socialist jerk...
Will advance science. (Score:2)
The free fall will involve 200 scientific experiments in the stratosphere and the troposphere, some of them linked to the possibility of parachute escapes from stranded space shuttles.
Re:Wouldn't be cool if he died (Score:3, Insightful)
I personally have no desire to float 25 miles up into the atmosphere in temperatures over a hundred degrees below freezing just so I can fall faster than the speed of sound. But if this guy wants to do it, more power to him. As long as SOMEONE is reaching higher for what nobody in their right mind would ever want to do, the rest of the world will benefit as a result, even if indirectly.
I'm not saying that funding medical research is bad. Its just as noble an endevour as any other. But to say that other reasearch does no good for the world simply because the immediate results do not, is very short sighted and reeks very badly of the "everything's already been invented" mentality. And besides, consider the fact that since he has partially funded this effort of his, the experiments he's carrying out will benefit agencies that otherwise would have to spend their own money to carry out similar experiments anyway. That means that money will be saved.. which means it might be available elsewhere, including your own personal preferred pet projects. And that's just looking at things from an immediate economic point of view.
-Restil
Re:Wouldn't be cool if he died (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what the moral difference is between robbing someone on the street at gunpoint, and using your government representatives to do it for you?
None.
What you state is VERY contrary to the spirit of freedom and individual liberty. What someone does with his own time and money is no business of yours at all.
How about your own life? That money you spent on that new RAM upgrade could have gone to help AIDS victims. That money you blew on beer and pr0n magazines could have gone to help the homeless.
See what I mean? This is, in essence, what socialism is: A central comitte decides what is done with money, property, and individuals, NOT the individuals.
I don't think that is what you are advocating, at least, I hope not...
If not for the individual freedom the USA is supposed to stand for, and the incredible spirit of adventure and creativity this spawns, the world wouldn't have had:
Charles Lindburgh
Wilbur and Orville Wright
Who both did things that were thought to be nutty at the time.
There is a reason why most great inventions of the past 150 years have happened in America. One word: Freedom.
Freedom to do with what is yours, and what gifts you have, as you will.
Re:well (Score:1)
Re:well (Score:2)
Feet and meters (Score:2)
That was at 75 000 to 100 000 feet. This is to be done at 41 000 meters. There are just over three feet in a meter. Do the rest yourself.
Re:Make this a park attraction (Score:2)
You're right there is a reverse effect at high altitude. Climbers need to acclimatize properly otherwise they risk problems from oxgen deprivation and a rather nasty problem where the brain swells.
In standard parachute jumping though the exposure is not long enough for these problems to be apparent. The only time problems occur is when you go from the altitude metioned here. Instant death from lack of oxygen, and freezing is pretty assured if you tried going from this height without some protection.