1770 Mechanical Chess Player Inspired Babbage 160
dipfan writes "A new book tells the extraordinary true story of a clock-work chess-playing "machine" named The Turk that wowed Europe and the US in the 18th and 19th century, beating Benjamin Franklin and Napoleon, among others. Although it turned out to be a cleverly designed trick, the device is credited with inspiring Charles Babbage (the father of the computer), who played and lost to the automaton in 1820, with the idea that a mechanical engine could be programed to perform tasks... and the rest is computing history, right up to IBM's Deep Blue. There's an article by the author at Wired, and the preface and first chapter of the book The Mechanical Turk available online."
gain computers, lose clockwork (Score:5, Interesting)
What is sad to me, is that with the progression of 20th-century computers, and digital watches where even an analouge-faced watch is controlled by quartz crystal and battery, it seems as though the *art* of clockwork has been forgotton....
such a thing as too much nostalgia (Score:1)
Re:gain computers, lose clockwork (Score:1)
Re:gain computers, lose clockwork (Score:2)
Re:gain computers, lose clockwork (Score:2)
An art is only as pertinent as the times in which they exist. The art itself has not been forgotten, but is merely not practiced due to its unnecessary nature.
Re:gain computers, lose clockwork (Score:1)
Re:gain computers, lose clockwork (Score:2)
Steampunk comic books, computer games, and role-playing games exist, but you might have to search a little harder than usual to find them.
Re:gain computers, lose clockwork (Score:2)
Re:gain computers, lose clockwork (Score:1)
~Matt~
Re:gain computers, lose clockwork (Score:3, Funny)
The Erotic Hour Striker Jaquemart [diamondsandwatches.com] for a fine example of modern watchmaking.
Nothing has been lost at all.
Thats clockwork: IWC Grande Complication (Score:1)
Re:How is this news? (Score:2)
Charles Babbage, the pioneer of the mechanical computer, was another famous opponent; he lost two games to the Turk. Babbage was certain it was under human control, though he was not sure how. But he started to wonder whether a genuine chess-playing machine could, in fact, be constructed.
That is why it's here, not so much news but definately of interest to the slashdot computing crowd.
Re:I read the Wired article (Score:2)
Re:I read the Wired article (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I read the Wired article (Score:2)
Re:I read the Wired article (Score:3, Interesting)
BTW, the author of the Mechanical Turk is the technology correspondent of The Economist magazine, I see from his website.
Just knowing it's possible (even when it isn't) (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course it later turned out that the competing product did not have this feature and in fact nobody had ever done it before.
G.
Re:Virtually impossible to 2 days? (Score:1)
Not necessarily. It depends upon who was talking. Marketing or Engineering. We all know how that works.
Re:Just knowing it's possible (even when it isn't) (Score:1)
What it was... (Score:1)
The request was to be able to see (in real time) the very latest writes that had been made to the file even though it had not been posted yet. The claim was that the competition did this.
The solution required hunting down the process specific in-memory file buffers for the open spoolfile object and extracting the data from the buffer and polling for new records as the program wrote them (without crashing the machine if the process went away, etc.).
This had to be reverse engineered with no source code for the OS and no help from the OS vendor.
We thought it was a pretty clever hack at the time, more so after finding out that the competitor's program really only displayed the most recently posted full block of data just as our program had done.
G.
Re:Just knowing it's possible (even when it isn't) (Score:3, Interesting)
The aliens gave the humans a perpetual motion machine as the device that they had to reproduce. Of course the humans figured it was impossible, it must be a hoax, etc. Eventually they decided it was real, and so they set out and invented one themselves.
(At the end, the aliens revealed that in fact theirs *was* a hoax. The humans had given a fake anti-gravity machine to the aliens, but the alien team couldn't reproduce it, and to avoid diplomatic problems, etc., the human team finally decided they had to invent an actual anti-grav device as well in order to get out of their predicament.)
It was an enjoyable little story, at least when I read it as a kid.
Re:Just knowing it's possible (even when it isn't) (Score:1)
This applies to science too. (Score:2)
Modern comp required to beat human in chess? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Modern comp required to beat human in chess? (Score:1)
A picture of the machine: (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A picture of the machine: (Score:1)
I hope you mean to say engraving/drawing/ink sketch/etc, but not picture... right?
Re:A picture of the machine: (Score:1)
Re:A picture of the machine: (Score:2)
Re:A picture of the machine: (Score:1)
Slashdot logic at its finest
Re:A picture of the machine: (Score:2)
Ebook heads-up (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ebook heads-up (Score:2, Informative)
how the fuck is this post modded "interesting" (Score:1)
Re:how the fuck is this post modded "interesting" (Score:1)
Re:how the fuck is this post modded "interesting" (Score:1)
Re:Ebook heads-up (Score:1)
any sufficiently short midget... (Score:2, Funny)
Deep Blue is not the End (Score:2, Interesting)
If you ever get across to London... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:If you ever get across to London... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:If you ever get across to London... (Score:2)
There were some omissions (what materials to use for each part), unclarity (How was the device oiled?) and just plain errors (The "handedness" of the carry mechanism was exactly backwards and would not have worked in reality. Swade offers that it might have a deliberate error to prevent copying.)
It didn't exactly work the first time either: he goes into some detail over the build process, which basically was "Add part, try to move the linkage, listen to a part go 'ping' as it breaks, find broken pieces, repeat until done."
Still an amazing device- Babbage was way ahead of his time.
Eric
Re:If you ever get across to London... (Score:3, Informative)
For as much as Babbage contributed, I found the exhibit extremely lacking in information and delinquent in relating the importance of his work.
They did indeed have difference engine #2, however it was covered and being worked on by a couple gentlemen who did not appear willing or capable of fielding an inquiry.
Also, the exhibit neglected to make any significant mention of Babbage's work outside of the difference engine(s): encryption, politics, analytical engine, etc.
As a side note, I did, however, find that their weather exhibit was excellent and very informative. On the other hand, the mathematics exhibit was, like the Babbage exhibit, disappointing.
Steam Man (Score:2, Interesting)
The Turk is no different than chess programs today (Score:2, Insightful)
Even the best chess programs (Big Blue, etc.) today require the input of humans. They are given instructions, and apply those instructions in a "brute force" fashion to all data in its parameters. The vast majority of the calculations that a computer is asked to make is pure bullshit.
Human intelligence will always have the distinct advantage of eliminating a lot of worthless calculations.
Re:The Turk is no different than chess programs to (Score:1)
Also, computer are very good at following orders, unlike humans who have the "distinct advantage" of messing up over time.
(im not trying to sound anti human, i rather like our species, its just theres some things that computers and machines do better then us, like assembly line work, and some things that we do better, like research)
You shouldnt be bashing computers and programs for doing "worthless calculations", thats what we built the things for.
Some extra pictures to illustrate the story (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Some extra pictures to illustrate the story (Score:1)
Re:Some extra pictures to illustrate the story (Score:1)
Good read... (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh one more thing, the duck? They mention that it could take food out of a hand... how the hell did it do this? The last time I checked, motion sensors, digital cameras and such hadn't been invented yet. How the hell did the thing see where it was going, and have the ability to interact with a specific location?
Re:Good read... (Score:1)
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering as well. How the hell did it work? Who played the chess? Why was he so good? How did they control it from a distance? Was it placed under a table? Did someone twiddle something to operate the hands?
The really annoying thing about this Turk story is that nobody seems to care about how it worked. People will just say, "You're missing the point of the whole story". I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE POINT SOMEBODY TELL ME HOW IT WORKED I MEAN THIS WEBSITE IS READ BY THE MOST INTELLIGENT PEOPLE IN THE WORLD MATHEMATICIANS ENGINEERS GEEKS SOMEBODY PLEEEEEAAASSEEEE!!!
(breathe breathe)
Please?
Yuioup
Re:Good read... (Score:2, Interesting)
/powerlinekid
Re:Good read... (Score:1)
It was similar to the magic trick where a person gets in a box that gets swords stuck through it. The operator would make a big show of opening parts of the box and shine a candle through from behind, with nothing but gears and machinery visible. The smallish person inside would in turn be hiding in another part of the box. I don't think it's been discovered who was inside. Over the years several players must have been involved.
Re:Good read... (Score:2, Informative)
Here's [randi.org] a good explanation.
Re:Good read... (Score:2, Informative)
huh? (Score:1)
Re:Good read... (Score:1)
Re:Good read... (Score:2)
The chess player had indeed been controlled by a concealed operator using a clever system of folding partitions to remain hidden while the automaton's interior was open to view.
They mention it right at the end a while after they seem to drop the topic of the turk. As for the player I assume back then as with many sports nowadays only the best make lot's of money. I'm that he could of found a very good chess player who was happy for a significant cut of the money. Remember that he was beaten several times and while someone like Benjamin Franklin would no doubt be a very good chess player I doubt he had the experience to play at a highly competitive level. The thing I find strange is that it took them several years after it was destroyed to figure out that it was a hoax. One would think that in a museum they would have a chance to inspect it more closely than Maelzel would normally allow and find the person hidden.
Re:Good read... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Good read... (Score:1)
Re:Good read... (Score:3, Informative)
Afraid I threw the paper away, and I can't find the article on the web, but I'm 99% certain this is all from Tom Standage's book.
Re:Good read... (Score:5, Insightful)
The people playing the Turk weren't really playing to win. They were playing to see if this machine could play the game. They were too amazed by its ability to play AT ALL to bother much with trying to beat it. They might even intentionally make stupid "I wonder if he'll catch this" mistakes which ultimately sacrifice the game for them, no matter HOW good they might be.
Probably the only time it got beat was the one time that someone actually paid attention to the game itself, rather than the opposing player.
-Restil
Re:Good read... (Score:2)
Here's [cowderoy.com] a good article.
Note that Mephisto was thought to be operated in 1879 by Gunsberg, probably one of the top 5 or 10 players of the time, and Aheeb was operated by Pillsbury between 1898 and 1904, which was during his prime. Pillsbury may have been the strongest player in the world for a few of those years, with a string of tournament successes and brilliant wins over the then World Champion Lasker.
The players in these machines were often top players. I don't see any mention of these machines defeating world-class players, just notable Amateurs. Gunsberg and Pillsbury could easily defeat any Amateur regardless of the Amateurs having their guard up or down.
The machines gained great reputations, some said they played flawlessly like a machine. I imagine that the players concentrated very hard to try and defeat them.
Re:Good read... (Score:1)
Well said. Gregory Bateson in his seminal book 'Mind and Nature' makes a case for learning by context. He cites experiments wherein a dog is made to distinguish between a circle and an ellipse. If the dog correctly distinguishes between the two it is rewarded, if not it is punished. The experiment proceeds with the ellipse being made evermore circular until the dog cannot make the distinguishment. Almost invariably the dog becomes neurotic. Bateson points out that learning is necessarily contextual and in the cited case the dog has made a context wherein the circle can be distinguished from the ellipse and when that context fails the dog's ability to learn, or, to make a critical distinguishment fails and results in a neurosis. Context sets our response and only the most 'aggresive' prodigies are able, or, naturally supercede context and remain centred on the analysis of the problem at hand. Consider the horror of sitting for finals. How often does the spectre of failure incapacitate? Just as an aside MicroSoft recently released some earnings figures and while a number of commentators keyed on growth or flat numbers, none, that I have read, have taken any note of a %12 [theregister.co.uk] drop in the sale of tools, yet, for decades, MicroSoft has touted it's tool set and development platform as key to it's success. I suspect in another context much would be made of this but the news had to do with the flat sales of Office and XP. We are both crippled and empowered by context... anyway time to curtail the rant.
cheersRe:Good read... (Score:2)
Thank you, see i knew i was right.
Re:Good read... (Score:2)
Don't know how the duck worked, so I can't help you there. But people can be amazingly clever with the tools on hand.
Enkidu EOT
Re:Good read... (Score:1)
For the lazy (Score:2)
"The chess player had indeed been controlled by a concealed operator using a clever system of folding partitions to remain hidden while the automaton's interior was open to view."
Another story about this (Score:4, Informative)
Impossible? (Score:3, Informative)
Don't sell old technology too short. While a fully playing chess computer was beyond their reach, there were genuine automata in the 18th and early 19th century that could play end-games mechanically. Another examples of amizingly advanced automaton is the Swiss scribe, which can be programed to write a persons name with a quilt in long-hand, including pausing to dip the quilt in the ink well.
That would still be a challenging task for a robotic arm today.
Lastly the entire mechanism that allowed the chessmen to be grasped by a person from inside the Tuks was not replicated until a few decades back, again by "advanced" robotic research.
robotic arm (Score:2, Insightful)
Not hardly. Mechanically extremely easy, we just have to write the software
Ugh (Score:1)
I read about it (Score:1)
An abreviated History (Score:1)
DAMN IT (Score:1)
Re:DAMN IT (Score:1)
Re:I read about it (Score:1)
Othello/Reversi (Score:1, Offtopic)
1.5 GB of DDR RAM.
Dual 100 GB hard drives.
A half dozen fans to cool the whole thing.
AND I CAN'T FIND A GAME OF OTHELLO / REVERSI THAT CAN CONSISTENTLY BEAT ME.
Alan Turing (Score:2, Insightful)
Other purposes (Score:4, Funny)
In 1879 Mephisto (Gunsberg) went on tour, defeating every male player. However, when playing ladies, it would obtain a winning position, then lose the game, offering to shake hands afterwards
.. but also to get chicks!
does anyone else find it ironic (Score:1, Funny)
...that most of the first public appearances of computing technology appear to have been rigged demos?
It seems like some things never change.
but Charles Babbage is NOT the father of computing (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:but Charles Babbage is NOT the father of comput (Score:1)
To quote from your link, he actually invented "first mechanical binary digital computer".
Babbage [ex.ac.uk] still remains as the pioneer of programmable computing machines.
A dont forget (one of) the first computer programmers, Ada Lovelace [ex.ac.uk], perhaps the Grandmother of computer programmers.
They never *built* it (Score:2)
Re:They never *built* it (Score:1)
Engine No. 1 was demonstrated to the British Govt. to secure a Govt. grant to build the machine that was only completed in 1991.
Ada's programs are still around on her original punchcards, a few are in the above museum, others are held in trust. (And there were other machines reading punchcards before this.)
A machine based on Babbages original work was built and sold to the British Govt. in Babbages lifetime by the Swedish!
-Roy
Re:but Charles Babbage is NOT the father of comput (Score:1)
I notice this thread is filled with rather creative interpretations of the history of computing
First of all, Charles Babbage was very British.
While the Difference Engine wasn't much of a computer (but it was built, not by Babbage in the 1820's, but by Georg and Edvard Scheutz in 1843), the Analytical Engine, designed in 1834, was a punch card programmable mechanical computer with memory and an output printer. The Analytical Engine was never completed, however.
As for Konrad Zuse's "Z" line of computers, they where revolutionary in that they were the first binary computers. The Z3, built in 1943, might be considered the first general purpose computer. The Z3 was a 250 mFLOPS 22-bit computer with 1408 bits of RAM (64 words).
Re:but Charles Babbage is NOT the father of comput (Score:1)
This doesn't even begin to include smaller adding machines, telephone switching systems and others. Deciding wether a relay is Electronic or Electro Mechanical is contentious as well.
For the record, I'm British, so I count Babbage as the first
Speech synthesis (Score:2, Interesting)
and what about Blaise Pascal ? (Score:2, Insightful)
an almost forgotten programming language
bears his name, because he was the one,
about 1660, to build the first adding
and multiplying machine....Babbage
was surely aware of his work !
Re:and what about Blaise Pascal ? (Score:1)
editorial quibble (Score:1)
Shouldn't that be "nearly always does"?