T-Rex A Slow Mover 31
Ant writes "Link: New
models of the leg muscles of
Tyrannosaurus Rex suggest that a real
T-Rex might not have passed the
screen test for "Jurassic Park."
Stanford University researchers writing
in the British journal Nature this week
suggest that a T-Rex could not have
been able to run as fast as the one in
the movie -- and might not have been
able to run at all.
"There is no way you could fit enough
muscle into its body for that kind of
locomotion," said John Hutchinson,
co-author of the Nature article. "You
wouldn't have enough room left over for
all the other body parts.""
interesting (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:interesting (Score:1)
it's a good guess, if you've seen salt water crocodiles [geocities.com] (sorry about the geocities link)
Re:interesting (Score:1)
i don't think so -- crocodiles are cold-blooded reptiles
my understanding is that dinosaurs are thought to be more closely related to birds, and probably warm-blooded
-Kevin
Jurassic Park: Special Edition (Score:3, Funny)
"T-Rexs are slower than they appear"
Re:Jurassic Park: Special Edition (Score:1)
Don't be silly, it's always the side mirror that has the problem with perception.. so the Side mirror would need to warn about T-Rexs being slower than they appear.
"Dude, I'm going to overclock my T-Rex, get him up to 40 mph!"
When your legs are 20 feet long... (Score:2, Insightful)
"Wah! It's gonna catch us and eat us!"
"Don't be silly dear, that's just Dino out for his morning walk..."
Don't get in a bunch (Score:2)
I however, tend to believe that the T-Rex was a fast-moving creature. Perhaps not as fast as portrayed in Jurassic Park, but certainly fast enough to make a bald lawyer crap his pants and run to the bathroom, allowing his pants to fall down.
At least one piece of evidence suggests T-Rex was a very active animal -- at least amongst themselves. Bones of one discovered T-rex had large masks on them, the marks indicative of another T-rex's tooth.
But hey, two big slow creatures could bite eachother as well -- don't need to be fast for that.
Re:Don't get in a bunch (Score:1, Interesting)
As for the feeding habits, being able to run 45 mph only makes sense (from an evolutionary standpoint) if you have to be able to run that fast to either catch prey or run away, but I doubt the king of the dinosaurs was designed for the tactical withdrawl. I also find it hard to believe that T-rex lived off of killing dinosaurs this fast, they'd mostly be smaller than him meaning less caloric intake for the effort. If you look at your large hunting cats today that rely on speed to catch prey they tend to go after animals their mass or larger (up to 2x even?)
It just doesn't make sense to me that T-rex would be that fast. I always viewed him as killing and eating large and slow dinos, and stealing carcases from smaller preditors when he had the chance. Of course iana palentoligist, but sometimes I doubt how much they really "know" anyway.
Haven't we heard this before? (Score:2, Insightful)
Predators: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Predators: (Score:2, Insightful)
As for the duckbill..... That was a damn lucky dino to get away after a T-rex had it's jaws on it's neck
Some predators have speed. Some predators have speed for short periods of time. Some predators can run at full speed all the time.
Could a T-rex move slow Maybe. Maybe not. There isn't really enough evidence to tell.
Re:Predators: (Score:5, Interesting)
Furthermore, attempting to extrapolate between such radically different body plans as a human; who in the larger scheme of things is a poor runner in all regimes, an ostrich, whose body is essentially all leg and neck and a T-Rex, with a much different torso to leg length ratio from both ostriches and humans is an exercise fraught with difficulty.
It seems the current problem is to attempt to determine the maximum speeds of which T-Rexes and their prey are capable. That could give one a clue as to the T-Rex's hunting style: if a T-Rex is much faster than its prey it may hunt like a cheetah, if its about the same speed it may hunt like a tiger; cornering its prey then making a very short rush, or if it has good endurance it may hunt like a wolf by running its prey to exhaustion.
Whatever the final probable outcome, attempting to intuit the result from the performance of human athletes is probably not going to give any useful information. I am not an expert but I believe that if anything at this point paleontology is only beginning to realize how little information we have about the living habits of dinosaurs. All we really have is a decent idea about the variety of body plans of dinosaurs, and as far as I know even the warm blooded versus cold blooded debate is not completely settled yet either. Similarly biomechanics is still an infant science, we have only recently come to understand the aerodynamic principles that allow a bumblebee to fly and still don't have a very good idea about the possible range of movement of the giant saurapods.
Re:Predators: (Score:2, Informative)
In fact humans are fanastic as one event: long distance running in hot weather. We are custom designed to avoid heat exhaustion during long exertions.
Our upright posture and lack of body hair maximizes the shedding of heat.
Our oversized brains have huge amounts of redundancy to avoid passing out when a large fraction of the cells begin failing. Notice how humans can tolerate alcohol so well? Same idea.
One school of thought for how early man hunted was that he chased deer until they passed out from heat stroke on the hot, dry plains.
Re:Predators: (Score:3, Interesting)
Arnold and Abebe are still around the same size. You need to take a look at something with a large volume. Building tall buildings is very similar. The taller you build it, the stronger each support needs to be. If you need your 10th story to support 50 above it, then your 10th story may need to become thicker. Add one more story on top, every story under it needs to become a little thicker.. all the way down to the bottom story which will need to have massive supports. What this means for an animal is that for every inch they go up, they go out a few inches.. and since volume compounds inch per inch, the weight they increase by gaining that much height is incredible.
Basically, the taller they got, the larger their bones had to be to support their weight, the larger their hearts had to be to send blood through their large body, which means they would need larger lungs to support the oxygen into their blood, which would mean their inner cavity would be incredibly massive.. which would mean simple massive bulk. Overall a large weight. While they could walk easily, do the math for how much weight that would be landing on one leg in full stride at 40 mph. (I can't do the math, I just know it's big *grin*)
Another example. Mechwarriors are most likely never going to happen, simply because a running robot is impossible with today's materials. We don't know of any material that could be lightweight enough to create a 60 foot robot that could run without it's own weight crushing its own legs.. and we know dinosaurs didn't have any magic materials in their legs.
Re:Predators: (Score:1)
Just because I can't build it doesn't mean it can't exist. I can't think of a mechanical analog to the growth of an abalone shell or a giant sea snail's shell.
Models are useful, but don't take them too far.
Re:Predators: (Score:1)
OK, here's the engineering problem in a nutshell:
So going back to that ostrich, if you somehow grew an ostrich to twice normal height, all other things being equal, it would weigh 8 times (2^3) as much, and would require four times (2^2) the muscle and bone cross-sectional area, to stand.
In my opinion, the ostrich is a great example. Compared to a smaller bird, say a turkey, it's mostly legs. Double it's size, it has to be mostly leg; scale it up to T.Rex size, it's almost ALL leg, just as these researchers say.
Well, DUH. I coulda told 'em that, with little more than a pocket calculator.
This isn't to say that I think T.Rex and his ilk couldn't run; perhaps their muscles were more efficient than current reptiles and birds, or they adapted a running motion that used their mass to aid locomotion rather than impede it. There are many creatures in nature who's performance can't be explained easily, this may be another such case.
Re:Predators: (Score:2)
Something to consider about T-Rex, it seems to be the pinnacle of 250million years of evolution compared to just 50 million years that mammals have had. It is quite possible that their muscles had much greater efficiency than any modern animal has. This is somewhat supported by their fantastic size, which no modern animal can achieve except when supported by water.
Also, the earth is about
If the Meteor theory is true, It also added it's mass to the earth, but I doubt it would be enough to be significant.
recent fast dinosaurs (Score:1)
Re:recent fast dinosaurs (Score:2)
Which makes me realize my theory is not falsifiable, meaning it is probably wrong.:)
smaller ones have left footprints (Score:2)
Here we go again (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Here we go again (Score:3, Insightful)
Yup, if a scientist had found only dead bumblebees, they would have claimed (with proof) that bumblebees could not have flyed and would have said the wings must have been used for heat dirpersion or some other crap.
And before anyone goes on to say that it was recently discovered that its small vorticies that blablabla makes the bumblebee fly, remember that they had to turture countless specimens before they admitted their secret of flight. (wind tunnels, glue, sticks, etc) wich requires live specimens.
Remember kids, anytime a scientist says something is impossible, he's no longer a scientist, he's a techno-monk, relying on faith and math rather than empirical observations.
What about Jack Horner? (Score:2, Informative)
Bird-like bones and fast twitch muscle tissue (Score:1)
Re: Anthropologist? (Score:1)
What about Gray's Paradox? (Score:2)
Similar studies of fish can't explain their speed and conclude that they have insufficient muscle mass to explain their locomotion. This is known as Gray's Paradox. The following URL explains this and how Scientists might only recently be approaching an explanation. It also provides insight into how these 'studies' are done and the kinds of crazy assumptions that can often be made.
http://www.mbl.edu/publications/LABNOTES/4.1/sc
So, forgive me if I run rather than walk away the next time I see a T-Rex approaching me.
*ahem* (Score:1)
The T-Rex chasing the jeep in Jurassic Park... (Score:2)
Obviously the only way to be sure ... (Score:2)