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Space

802.11b Space Suits 130

Saint Aardvark writes "The BBC has an article here about WearSat, the new generation of space suits: embedded RISC processor, 802.11b networking, VGA heads-up display, and 1GB microdrive. I want one for my rec room."
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802.11b Space Suits

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  • by abnormal ( 165012 ) on Thursday December 20, 2001 @03:07AM (#2730798) Homepage
    All we have to do now is to increase the signal range on the 802.11b standard, and we'd be able to hack those astronauts from Earth =)
  • You remember that scene in Naked Gun when Leslie Nielsen goes to the bathroom with the wireless mike on?

    Imagine how much worse it's going to be when you go to the bathroom with not only the mike, but the streaming webcam too... :)

  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Thursday December 20, 2001 @03:09AM (#2730801)
    If this device ends up running XP-Embedded, astronauts will need a way to contact Redmond to get an activation key ...
  • by teaserX ( 252970 ) on Thursday December 20, 2001 @03:11AM (#2730806) Homepage Journal
    is plans for a cheap antena made from 1500 pringles cans...

  • We should get these for a few of our developers.
    ...would certainly cut down on the B.O.

    It would probably be easier to convince them to wear these to work than to use soap and shampoo on a regular basis.

    ~dlb
  • As long as it doesn't run on embedded windows:

    "AirPump.exe has generated errors and will be closed. An error log has been created."
  • The problem with 802.11b has always been, and will continue to be, its lack of general acceptance in the IT community. With everyone running in different directions, 802.11b gets lost in the dust. It's a weaker technology and will never be widely accepted as the standard.
  • by joshjs ( 533522 ) <joshjsNO@SPAMcs.uwm.edu> on Thursday December 20, 2001 @03:16AM (#2730828) Homepage
    One of the big challenges was finding a way of fitting a display into an astronaut's helmet.

    "Using new technology, which is referred to as the microdisplay, we were able to fit a small active matrix liquid crystal display around an area where eye glasses would normally be worn," said Mr Schwartz.


    This gives me hope that someday I'll be able to walk to the fridge and grab a coke without having to stop reading /.

    Very fancy.
  • I want one! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It appears that the people involved in this project seem to each be from the top of their respective fields. This means it won't run Windows. This could make mission communications easier. (As long as they don't waste all their time using the messaging features like many of us do at work) And let's face it, the space suit needs an upgrade, right. I wonder how long until Think Geek gets one?
  • why the microdrive? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Pyromage ( 19360 )
    I can see the point of the rest, but the microdrive seems like a waste. For one thing, how shielded are those suits? How much EM can magnetic media take? I can see the usefulness of say, a hud with schematics of circuits, or a map, or whatever displayed on it via the network, BUT, what on earth would you put on the microdrive? If you're taking photos, the drive goes in the camera, not the suit! But otherwise, I think it could be cool. Also, maybe those microoptical lcd glasses could be useful here?
    • It could record vitals and environmental info for posterity, no?
      • (posterity / analysis)
      • Yes, but is not everything transmitted anyway? Aren't the vitals monitered? And even so, a microdrive probably isn't the answer. I think something slower but more reliable would be better. You also don't need a gig for vitals. Why not some sort of ruggedized, upgraded floppy disk?

        The size is good, but, what's the point of a 1gb microdrive? Why not a 100 or 200 meg low-density 1200rpm laptop hdd? It'd prolly cost as much as the microdrive, but I say it'd be a far site more reliable!

        • More to the point, I can't see any reference to an input device.

          Anyone remember that eye-tracking mouse replacement thing?

        • I'm not sure what all they'd want to use the microdrive for. Might want it for data backup if they can't transmit everything? or maybe for instructions and/or schematics for when they're working on something outside of the station. streaming and transmitting might not always be possible i guess. The use of a laptop hdd might also not be usable since they're having to make this as small as possible so that they don't have to do much to the suits and theres not much room left in them.
      • Or maybe like the actual OS that would keep these big mc-hammer 2k1 edition things going? Why would you get something large that holds less for the same amount of money? Or maybe the microdrive will be the temp install dir for all the winxp embedded "upgrades". Good way to sneak on solitaire I reckon :)
    • I can see the point of the rest, but the microdrive seems like a waste.

      Duh... the astronauts have to have somewhere to keep their MP3s... 1 gig should be plenty to keep you going during a boring spacewalk.

      Though now that I think about it, they do have a VGA display in their helmets... pr0n anyone?
    • Too much of a slight jolt and poof, your $350 drive is now a miniature collection of plastic and metal. They now make 1gb CompactFlash cards - solid-state, no problems with jitter... of course, they cost about 3x as much, but hey, we're talking an activity that doesn't treat mechanical failure with much tolerance.
    • Because this is an academic boondoggle that will never be implemented in the current suit. The first article talks about the current US spacesuit, however goto the actual website and they are working with the Russian Orlan suit. This is nothing more than a proof of concept for something that may be usable for a Mars suit, whenever that happens.

      The limiting factor in just about all spacewalks are battery life. You can get about 4 hours max. Every milliamp matters. Currently the suit uses an old rad hardened cpu that runs at like 8mghz(I think its an NEC but I'm not positive, and I believe is now out of production). Last I knew they are looking to upgrade that to a more recent/powerful cpu and I believe a rad hardened PPC was in contention. However, the form factor size was about double the current and I believe it drew like 20% more power than the current.
      Currently NASA on the ground gets real time data from about a dozen various systems in the suit. This info includes things such as voltage readings, temp, air flow rates, etc.

      More info can be had here: here [hsssi.com]
    • storage/gyrostabilzer, uh, you know... for those tightrope walks on the moon.
  • 802.11B? (Score:3, Funny)

    by TalShiar00 ( 238873 ) on Thursday December 20, 2001 @03:23AM (#2730844) Homepage
    I would think that they would go with a wireless networking standard that allows for greater distance.

    In space no one can hear you scream...
    if you are more than a few hundred yards away.
    • Re:802.11B? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ShmuelP ( 5675 )
      1) I'm sure that in the vacuum of space, the signals can go farther
      2) Just how far do you want a spacewalking astronaut to be from his/her base?
      • How much interference do you think there is in space? The ISS is still using the specially made Pentiums that protect from all that interference.
        How long is ISS? Yes they can have relay stations scattered through out but how about when they repaired Hubble. Satellites are designed to protect their internal circuitry, if you are on the other side of a satellite working you will get a lot of signal degradation.
        I am not staying that it is a horrible idea, it will certainly make space safer and easier but there are other wireless networking standards with a greater range.
  • It's nice to have a small wearable tucked in some corner of a space suit to display stuff. But how do you get data into the thing? How do you use it? Imagine an astronaut attempting to use a mouse in zero-G! A keyboard is easier, but where would it go?

    And if the thing just displays data sent to it over the LAN, why bother with the HD at all?
  • I want one for my christmas-shopping!
  • by Tsar ( 536185 ) on Thursday December 20, 2001 @03:30AM (#2730872) Homepage Journal
    ...Earthlink finds out that one of our astronauts is illegally sharing his wireless access [earthlink.net] with everyone in LEO.
  • If only Dave had 802.11b, he could have hacked into hal to get those doors open. Of course, since Hal never made any mistakes, I suspect he would use better than 56bit encryption.

  • I thought that a large portion of the development on wearable computing was in the area of flexible logic boards. Given such flexible system could be woven into the fabric of the suit this would seem a far superior opion that would not require space on the already heavily populated chest and back.

    It might even add to the insulating properties of the suit.

    And for my comedy points...

    does the space suit play mp3s?
  • by base2op ( 226729 )
    I hope they don't run Windows. Otherwise the astronauts will just play solitaire during their space walks. : /
  • i guess some peoples dot bomb stocks didn't do all bad
  • And here is a screenshot [pi.cnr.it] of the HUD.

    It's amazing what they can do these days... :-)

  • Hal, open the pod bay doors please.

    Hal, open the pod bay doors.

    Open the pod bay doors, Hal

    Hal? Do you read me Hal

    Hal, I have my space suit, you open the pod bay doors now or I will r00t your b0x0r with my 1337 5k1llZ!

  • And in the news today two astonauts were lost today, their last communications were, "Forget the girder I'm almost level 21 in Everquest!"
  • by medcalf ( 68293 ) on Thursday December 20, 2001 @03:53AM (#2730919) Homepage
    war orbiting
  • This will open doors to some very interesting advances.

    Seeing as how new breakthroughs in technology open roads to even newer developments (providing that the parent advancement doesn't flop.)

    Perhaps this can be applied to the Military, Policing, Security and Fast Food! :))
  • by freebsd guy ( 543937 ) on Thursday December 20, 2001 @04:08AM (#2730954)
    Back in 1969, I watched with amazement as we first landed on the moon, and I wondered what would come next. Space colonies? Lunar waste disposal? The discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life?

    Nowadays, I read space.com [space.com] and feel an overwhelming sense of depression. I see billions of tax dollars wasted on multimillion dollar toy space suits, and paying large salaries to Slashdot trolls [slashdot.org] and other function-free individuals.

    NASA is a drain on the nation's economy, and we need to send them a clear message: shape up or ship out. We need to run them like the R&D division in a corporation: if they can't produce useful results, innovations, and profit within a few years, we need to start cutting projects and staff. I want to see NASA become synonymous with "technical progress" like it was when I grew up; right now, it is synonymous with "wasted tax money" and that is not a favorable label to have during such a terrible recession.

    freebsd guy

    • Back in 1969, I watched with amazement as we first landed on the moon, and I wondered what would come next. Space colonies? Lunar waste disposal? The discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life?

      Nowadays, I read space.com [space.com] and feel an overwhelming sense of depression.

      NASA is a drain on the nation's economy, and we need to send them a clear message: shape up or ship out. We need to run them like the R&D division in a corporation: if they can't produce useful results, innovations, and profit within a few years, we need to start cutting projects and staff.


      Ah, we want *MORE* dead end space spectaculars. (Which is what the moon landing was.) We want *more* Buck Rogers, it's not useful unless it's *BIG* and *REALLY LOUD*. (Of course you ignore the ongoing Mars work, and the Hubble, and Galileo, and many other current projects...)
    • by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Thursday December 20, 2001 @05:47AM (#2731067)
      I want to see NASA become synonymous with "technical progress" like it was when I grew up

      What makes you think it isn't? Just because we haven't found e.t. or colonized the moon yet doesn't mean we aren't making technical progress.

      right now, it is synonymous with "wasted tax money" and that is not a favorable label to have during such a terrible recession.

      On the contrary one of the better ways to get out of a depression is known as Keynsian economics (I probably misspealt it) where the government spends money with the effect of creating jobs and stimulating the economy. While this is somewhat beside the point as it is usually done with blue collar workers is this case the result is somewhat the same. For every dollar spent on Nasa I've heard estimates of everywhere from $12-$20 being generated in the ecomony. That's not to mention the huge technical advances derived from the space industry (how common do you think sattelite communicaton would be if it wasn't for the pioneering experience from the space industry, not to mention numerous innovations that have come from the space program. I recall a while ago I found a link to a site on /. (Im sorry but I'm on a slow connection now and don't have the time to look it up now) that listed many of these innovations (I believe velcro may of been among them although I may be mistaken). Still it is important not to realize that advances must not be obvious to be important, it would be foolhardy to throw away so much future knowledge over anxieties over a downturn in the economic cycle. Right now the fields of research being explored by Nasa and increasingly by the international community are relatively new to are species are we still understand little of what we may learn to do, can we afford to risk trowing away so muchin the long run to ease short term suffering.

      p.s. Sorry for the ramble;)

    • by Dr. Manhattan ( 29720 ) <<sorceror171> <at> <gmail.com>> on Thursday December 20, 2001 @10:03AM (#2731640) Homepage
      Back in 1969, I watched with amazement as we first landed on the moon, and I wondered what would come next. Space colonies? Lunar waste disposal? The discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life? ...if they can't produce useful results, innovations, and profit within a few years, we need to start cutting projects and staff.

      First off, NASA has produced thousands of spinoffs [seds.org], and I guarantee you use several of them every day [thespaceplace.com].

      But even aside from that, NASA isn't a corporation and not everything should be run as one. You need some "blue-sky" research that isn't focused on a specific goal. You don't know what you'll find, but you'll find something.

      Now, incompetence and dumb mistakes [cosmos-club.org] (why didn't they use a second intererometer to check?) need to be dealt with, but overall I'd keep NASA. What we really need is some revisions in space law so that private companies can do more space research and run their own launches. Then we get the best of both worlds (no pun intended).

      • Yeah, thats exactly what we need, more companies in space.

        "When deep space exploration ramps up,
        it will be corporations that name
        everything. The IBM Stellar Sphere.
        The Philip Morris Galaxy. Planet
        Starbucks."
        ~Narrator~
        • But who says anyone will use the corporate names? As it is now, sports media go out of their way to avoid using corporate names for stadiums. ("The ballpark formerly known as Candlestick Park", for example, instead of "3Com Park".)

          Besides, I'd rather see the corporations up there than see no one up there. And as it is now, practically no one's up there (literally no one, if you go above LEO and exclude robots).
    • What I remember is we used to dream and we had the focus to pursue those dreams. Then somewhere along the way we went to being snide, pretenious cynics and evolved into apathetic, Nintendo playing couch potatos.

      I want to see Americans become synonymous with "visionaries" like it was when I grew up. Currently Americans are synonymous with "self centered" and that is a terrible label to hold during any generation.

      Why no super-collider? Why not finish the final mile? Why this unrelenting bent that all research must be practical to rate funds and that pure research isn't worth anybody's time?

      See, you may blame NASA but I remember watching people grow blas'e after a few moon landings and then living through the "Me" generation. Your visions of space colonies and progress died by banality and imo NASA's biggest "mistake" during that time was trying to get people fired up over the space program with elaborate projects that could get enough interest for funding. To quote Pogo "I have seen the enemy and he is us." It takes two to tango and NASA isn't leading if you ask me.

      • What I remember is we used to dream and we had the focus to pursue those dreams. Then somewhere along the way we went to being snide, pretenious cynics and evolved into apathetic, Nintendo playing couch potatos.

        You'd do well to study history rather than rely on memories. The entire nation focusing on a single dream is a rarity, not a common thing.

        I want to see Americans become synonymous with "visionaries" like it was when I grew up.

        I'd be curious to know what alternate timeline you grew up, because once again history fails to support your claim.

        Why this unrelenting bent that all research must be practical to rate funds and that pure research isn't worth anybody's time?

        You really should read less FUD and more facts. Ever heard of the Hubble? Basic research. Or of the VLBA? More basic research... The list goes ever on. The super collider was cut because not all basic research can be funded. Life's like that.
  • Why is the "publications" page blank? Is my browser broken, or has nothing been published yet about WearSAT. Sounds pretty vaporous to me.

    The only info in the BBC article was that they're putting computers in space suits with small eye displays. I could do that in a week -- what really matters is the software. The display mock-up looks interesting, but not much in depth info here-- can't wait to see what kind of environment they come up with.


  • "[...featuring...] an embedded RISC processor, 802.11b networking, VGA heads-up display, and 1GB microdrive. "

    I don't even know where to begin how to point out how collosally stupid this idea is.

    1) Good luck using ANY heads-up display during spacewalk. The glare from Earth alone is enough to blind most astronauts. If you're doing your walk during the timeframe where the sun is present, now you've got two problems to worry about in the glare departments. See, kids, thats why we have radio communication. A heads up display would be effectively useless in such an environment.

    2) What idiot decided that Joe Astronaut needs a power-consuming VGA display? You want fries with that? For cryin out loud, you're life depends on battery power while you're untethered. Gee, lets make a suit that needlessly takes power away from those annoying non-essential features like pumps for HEAT and OXYGEN...Jeezus, this is stupid.

    3) Suppose you had superpowerful eyeballs capable of overcoming the glare, and a massive slip in the oversight commitee allowed you to go up there with your go-go-gadget space suit to try out your wattage eating heads-up display. Does it _really_ take a RISC processor to tell you how much air you have left, how much power you have left, and other critical information? Nope. This smacks of buzzword bingo, and stinks of collosal stupidity perhaps even moreso than items #1 and #2.

    4) If you look at the HUD mock-up they cleverly whipped up in MS Paint, you'll notice that their display is predominantly taken up with a window showing "mission objectives". If you need to be reminded of what the hell you're doing up there, you don't belong in the suit in the first place!! Jesus!

    5) A 1GB Microdrive. Well, thats lovely. Now what are you going to do with it...It eats more power than static DRAM, and the microdrive would have to be protected from radiation exposure. A 1GB Microdrive also infers an IDE controller, which infers even more onboard power-consuming crap succepible to radiation and power loss. Oh, and not to mention, the platter will get demagnetized within seconds.

    5) You want OTHER crew members both onboard and on the ground to monitor your bio stats while you're working. There are plenty of stories of astronauts who having gone on spacewalks, freak out and start drifting off. The whole point of such an operation is that the people inside the craft help guide the person in the suit. You dont go zipping off leaving a post-it note on the hull saying "I'm gonna go take some pictures!!!! bbak in 30 min!"

    I want to hold my head in disbelief that this crap made the front page on Slashdot at the expense of perhaps hundreds of other stories, let alone the fact that MIT is sponsoring this diarrhea.

    And yes, thats how I really feel.

    Cheers,
    • You, sir, are a genius.

      This hits the nail on the head.

      Well except that the visors do a phenominal bit on the whole sun problem. It's really not all that bad anymore.
    • I don't even know where to begin how to point out how collosally stupid this idea is.

      You shouldn't have.

      1) Good luck using ANY heads-up display during spacewalk. The glare from Earth alone is enough to blind most astronauts.

      You do know that their helmets are already shielded against glare don't you?

      2) What idiot decided that Joe Astronaut needs a power-consuming VGA display? You want fries with that? For cryin out loud, you're life depends on battery power while you're untethered. Gee, lets make a suit that needlessly takes power away from those annoying non-essential features like pumps for HEAT and OXYGEN

      You did read the article or the website and notice that it's a *microdisplay*. Hardly a vast consumer of power.

      3) Does it _really_ take a RISC processor to tell you how much air you have left, how much power you have left, and other critical information? Nope. This smacks of buzzword bingo, and stinks of collosal stupidity perhaps even moreso than items #1 and #2.

      Pherhaps they chose an already space rated processor? Or one that's more compatible with their other hardware? Or compatible with the embedded system they'll need? (And RISC does not always mean 'fast, complex, powerful'.)

      4) If you look at the HUD mock-up they cleverly whipped up in MS Paint, you'll notice that their display is predominantly taken up with a window showing "mission objectives". If you need to be reminded of what the hell you're doing up there, you don't belong in the suit in the first place!! Jesus!

      What takes up most of the display space depends on the mode selected. In fact the map shown here [mit.edu] will be quite useful in orienting yourself in such a complex place as the exterior of the ISS.

      5) A 1GB Microdrive. Well, thats lovely. Now what are you going to do with it...It eats more power than static DRAM, and the microdrive would have to be protected from radiation exposure. A 1GB Microdrive also infers an IDE controller, which infers even more onboard power-consuming crap succepible to radiation and power loss. Oh, and not to mention, the platter will get demagnetized within seconds.

      The SDRAM and it's controls will have to protected against radiation exposure as well. Just out of curiosity, what do you think will demagnetize the platters? Existing hard drives in space don't seem to have that problem.

      5) You want OTHER crew members both onboard and on the ground to monitor your bio stats while you're working. There are plenty of stories of astronauts who having gone on spacewalks, freak out and start drifting off.

      A second '5)' you are at least consistent... So what's wrong with being able to check your own bio stats? I'm also curious as the source of your 'many stories' as the space community has never heard of any such thing being common or usual.
    • Dude, if this comes down to earth, I'll be playing the next mechwarrior in my hud helmet. LEAVE IT ALONE. This is going to turn into really sweet gaming accessories :)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Hrm did anyone think of this perhaps:

    Since they are just sort of prototyping these things to bid to NASA, they probably are just using this as a proof of concept sort of thing.

    NASA owns tons of frequencies. In real live suits, they'd probably use packet radio technology that they've already proven and gotten comfortable with.

    Note that NASA's new "better, faster, cheaper" motto does not extend to situations where human life is concerned. If these radios are intended to assist in monitoring astronaut's vitals or performing other mission critical missions in which failure could result in a loss of life, they will certainly not be used.

    Hell without that nice atmosphere to protect them, you'd think they'd be a little bit smarter than to use such low power crap with such a bad SNR up there.

    What is everyone's facination with 802.11 anyway? It's cool but it's not magic, folks. In fact, it kind of sucks. It''s five+ year old tech. It'd be nice if all this energy was put towards lobbying the FCC to open up the spectrum so consumers could start using higher powers and more spectrum. Did anyone say ultra-wideband? How about software-defined radio? You think 11mbps is fast, some of the technology that exists today can do 11gbps (and on low enough frequencies and powers that it is both effective and safe) yet because of the FCC, we just can't use it. oh well. sucks to your government.

    :: JOIN US! POST AS AC AND MAKE THE MODERATORS DO THEIR DAMN JOB ::
  • dumb question (not really hoping for an answer :) ):
    couldn't this 802.11 thing introduce some unwanted interferences will all the equipment already there (either once in space or just before going out). I guess they will have to go for the real tests relative to interferences, not just the consumer grades one (ya know, the one where when the product is FCC approved it means it will only kill you in 15 years of usage :) )
  • it's not obvious from the diagram [mit.edu] if they want to do that, and I'm too tired to read all the thing, but to me this seems like a bad idea.
  • Bad idea.. (Score:4, Funny)

    by EvilStein ( 414640 ) <.ten.pbp. .ta. .maps.> on Thursday December 20, 2001 @04:30AM (#2730987)
    The LAST thing we need are astronauts floating around looking at all of the porn they hid on their microdrive...

    "Ahh....nobody up here but you and me, Britney.."

    Geez, I can just hear the comments now...
  • I can see it now...

    WarDriving (any city)
    WarFlotilla (venice)
    WarBalloonz
  • They still use soft suits in space that makes the astronaughts require pressure adjustment before EVA. They need to start using hard suits. No pressure adaptation times before EVA.

    I believe NASA where researching new ideas that included hard suits.
  • Considering that these modifications cost between US$10m and US$20m per suit above the initial cost of the suit itself (which is pretty amazing because the suits are $12m [mit.edu]! - maybe one of these prices is off), you'd think that for this kind of money, you could pressurize your rec room. This will make games like twister much easier to play.
  • Oh yeah, great idea, gives BSOD a whole new meaning. Don't worry it will reboot before you run out of Oxygen.

    Besides, it is just a ripoff of "Have Space Suit, will Travel."
  • Did anyone else notice one of the test rigs was a compaq ipaq running (it looks like) win ce or whatever the hell they are calling it now?

    Haven't they had enough problems with M$ operating systems?
  • What would happen to the astronauts if their space suit was cracked by a kid with a beefed up receiver on the ground? Now I know the 802.11b standard doesn't broadcast that far, but it is conceivably possible that, say, another country, could build a huge ass wireless receiver, light up an astronaut, and hack his system, and take total control of his 'desktop.'

    Maybe they'll put a new show on cable: Remote control spaceman battles! Now on Comedy Central!
  • Houston, we have a problem. Windoze/SAT crashed again. OVER.

    Ah, roger that AlphaOne. Hold for instructions.

    Houston, I'm getting cold. I thought you said the heaters were autonomous.

    cckckckkc bzzt...

    Houston?

    OK, AlphaOne, we have a solution. Windows/SAT will automatically reboot and set defaults. Can you hold your breath for four minutes? OVER.

    Roger that, Houston. I'm getting a bit light headed, though. Three times is enough. Can I go back to the ship? Please? OVER.

    Negative, AlphaOne. The bird's USB auto-docking mechanism is offline for a bit. Stay put and hold for suit reboot. OVER & OUT.

    (Shit, I'm cold.)

  • What happens if the LCD screen blanks out? The astronaut will not be able to see through the screen, NOR will he or she be able to remove the glasses from his or her face.

    We better hope this is NOT run by WIndows, otherwise some poor astronaut is going to float off into space and suffocate with only a BSOD filling his field of view.

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