
Black Death's Genome Cracked 252
exceed writes: "This article on Wired, and this article on Yahoo! News states that scientists have decoded the genome of the bubonic plague bacterium. This will now (hopefully soon) lead to vaccinations and treatments for the disease it causes."
I feel so much safer (Score:1)
"You're the disease. I'm the cure" (Score:1)
Re:I feel so much safer (Score:5, Informative)
According to my source at the Coconino County Health Department in Flagstaff, Arizona, USA, there have been less than 60 cases state wide, since the first recorded one in 1950, of what we commonly refer to as "bubonic plague". Bubonic plague is actually descriptive of a symptom, not the disease itself which is caused by a bacterium called Yersinia pestis. Yersinia pestis is, as mentioned in the earlier post, carried by fleas.
The fleas of rats, mice, prairie dogs, squirrels, chipmunks and even rabbits can all carry Y. pestis. If your dog or cat is out running around free and catches or picks up a dead animal with infected fleas, your dog or cat can get those fleas. Once your pet has those fleas on him or her, they can be brought into your home and you can get the plague. However, this is apparently a very rare happening.
In 1995 there were 5 cases of Plague (Y. pestis) in Arizona. 2 of these were in Coconino county. One of these was in a woman who apparently was infected while visiting relatives in Maricopa County. The other was a man who had been out shooting prairie dogs and had handled several of the carcasses, getting fleas from them. The person at the Coconino County Health Dept. did say it was much more likely to get the aforementioned fleas from a carcass that a dog or cat brought home than directly from your dog or cat, though that was certainly possible and is believed to have happened in the past.
The point being, that while in the 14th century the "Black Death" (which is only assumed to be the same disease as Y. pestis) may or may not have been triggered by the decimation of the cat populations in Europe, we aren't living in the 1300's anymore. Now days, if you let your cat or dog run free he/she is liable to bring you a present that could cost you your life.
And don't even get me started about Hanta virus....
food chain (Score:1, Funny)
dogs make good mexican food
mexicans make good chinese food
don't eat chinese food or chinese people and you should be safe.
no, wait, don't eat mexican food or mexican people and you should be safe.
ah shit i lost the thread, just eat chiles and drink beer and you should be safe.
except for that mexican/chinese sunburn.
Re:I feel so much safer (Score:2)
I'd say your overstating your case here.What you're forgetting to add is that even though your dog or your cat *may* bring you a nasty little surprise, this nasty little surprise isn't anywhere near as lethal today as it was back in the 1300's.
At least, not for well-nourished, healthy "westerners" - IIRC, in the Indian subcontinent Plague epidemics break out every now and then, killing a fair number of people, but those deaths are probably caused more by the fact that the people hit have no stamina whatsoever due to the fact that they're malnourished. The same is true for other "deadly tropical diseases": Dengue fever, Malaria (the ordinary type, not the Malaria Tropica variety, which will kill just about anyone) and Cholera, to name but a few, won't kill a healthy adult, but in third world countries (to be more exact, in third world slums) these diseases, as well as the plague, *do* kill. In the 1300s, most of Europe was comparable to a present-day Calcuttan slum (if not worse), hence the black death took a lot of victims. Today, if you've got access to fair to good medical care, if you haven't been malnourished since (before) birth, contracting the plague will mean that you go see a doctor who gives you an antibiotic of some sort, you'll be feeling really miserable for a few days, and then you're cured.
But yeah, you're right, occasionally dogs and cats do spread the plague bacterium.
Re:I feel so much safer (Score:2)
I can see it coming... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I can see it coming... (Score:1)
Technology is a Double Edged Sword... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Technology is a Double Edged Sword... (Score:2, Informative)
Smallpox for example, would spread like crazy since we don't have a vaccine for it anymore.
A single spec of Anthrax will kill you... I don't think you can get much more deadly.
Re:Technology is a Double Edged Sword... (Score:3, Troll)
An excerpt:
"The possible use of smallpox virus as a weapon by terrorists has stimulated growing international concern and led to a recent review by the World Health Organization of the global availability of smallpox vaccine. This review found approximately 60 million doses worldwide, with little current vaccine manufacture, although limited vaccine seed remains available (1). Ongoing discussions in the United States suggest that the national stockpile should contain at least 40 million doses to be held in reserve for emergency use, including in case of a terrorist release of smallpox virus (O'Toole, this issue, pp. 540-6).
The current U.S. stockpile contains approximately 15.4 million doses of vaccinia vaccine (Dryvax) made from the New York City Board of Health strain of vaccinia and was produced by Wyeth Laboratories in 13 separate lots. The vaccine is lyophylized in glass vials with rubber stoppers and sealed with a metal band. When rehydrated, each vial contains 100 doses and has a potency of at least 108 plaque-forming units (pfu)/ml. Some vials of the vaccine stockpile have shown elevated moisture levels and thus failed routine quality control testing; however, the vaccine in these vials remains potent, and the failed lots have not been discarded."
Re:Technology is a Double Edged Sword... (Score:2, Insightful)
With something of this scope I'd rather take my chances without it. Personally if I found out that I had contracted some infectious disease as a result of bio-terrorism, I would be on the next flight to Pakistan trying to cross into Afghanistan so I could personally infect some of those idiots.
Re:Technology is a Double Edged Sword... (Score:2)
CCHF is well ahead of you [telegraph.co.uk] in that department...
Your comment violated the postercomment compression filter. Comment aborted
Re:Technology is a Double Edged Sword... (Score:1)
Re:Technology is a Double Edged Sword... (Score:3, Insightful)
For a moment, let's just replace the words, 'publishing bubonic plague genome information' with "releasing source code for the 2.4 Kernel". Are we all of a sudden afraid that the script kiddies are going to root our box, or do we realize that the release of such information will allow the many skilled programmers of the Linux world to make fine adjustments to the security features of Linux?
I'm talking out of my ass for this last bit here, but I'd have to figure that it takes a significantly skilled person to engineer a more dangerous strain of a given bacteria. I would also have to figure that the thousands of other people with roughly the same skill level could probably come up with a vaccine in a shorter time period. If I wanted something super-destructive, I'd probably stick with a nuke. They're a lot cheaper, and no one's come up with a personal nuke/radiation proof shield that can be injected into a toddler.
Re:Technology is a Double Edged Sword... (Score:2)
When we release the linux source, we're pretty sure that it's secure enough that no one can write a piece of code to permanently destroy all the hardware in any running linux box in a short period of time.
We (or at least, I) have no such confidence in genomes. Genome mapping is not fast, and just having a genome at this point doesn't necessarily give you a cure. (See: AIDS). Perhaps by the time scientists can effectively re-enginner a virus, they will be able to use that same genome to engineer a cure/vaccine. I don't know.
But in the in-between time, someone could (theoretically) create a virus that killed enough people and spread fast enough to wipe essentially everyone out before a cure was found. I'm not sure whether our immune systems or the variations with people would always be enough to stop it.
Mind you, I'm against this sort of activity (mapping the genomes of diseases). Right now I see more good coming of it than harm. But in the long run, I haven't really decided what I think yet -- I have no idea what the chances of each side cutting are.
-Puk
Great! (Score:1)
Oh wait, this isn't the Diablo forum!
-Kasreyn
Terrorism is good for gene research (Score:2, Offtopic)
Although the citizens of the U.S. will probably suffer an unspeakable loss of civil liberties and privacy [cnn.com], we will probably reap many benefits from the medical research that was spurred.
-sting3r
stupid question (Score:1)
Sorry for stupid question. Please enlighten me.
Read the article. (Score:1)
Re:stupid question (Score:2)
Re:You know you read trolls too much... (Score:1)
I hear you.
Black Death (Score:3, Funny)
Bubonic Plague? (Score:2, Funny)
Oh come on...why do medical-science-type people have to muck about,
wasting their time with old,
uncommon illnesses like Bubonic Plague.
I'd bet the number of BP cases are probably 50000 worldwide every year. maybe less.
HSV2 -- why dont they decode _that_ genome and get cracking on something to help with that.
I'm getting tired of all these damn blisters!
To clarify a couple points (Score:5, Insightful)
make that "a couple thousand people do die" (Score:1)
Re:To clarify a couple points (Score:5, Informative)
----------------
Actually, it isn't.
The most virulent & deadly version of plague (pneumatic) has a mortality rate of aprox. 90% if left untreated...
...if (untreated) bubonic plague had a 100% mortality rate, european history would look very diffrent.
Further Correction... (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, there were three types:
Bubonic (lymph nodes)
Pneumonic (lungs)
Septicemic (blood)
The deadliest was Septicemic, killing 100% of the people that contracted it. However, there had to be a very specific set of circumstances (temerature, etc.) for a person to get this type.
Just FYI, Pneumonic killed about 90% of the people that got it and Bubonic killed about 75%.
Re:To clarify a couple points (Score:2, Interesting)
Oddly enough, there are also biblical accounts of people eating a cousin of garlic (sorry, don't remember the odd-ball name) which was said to also ward of disease. Go figure...
Re:To clarify a couple points (Score:2)
Just a minor nitpick.
"Without prompt antibiotic treatment, plague is fatal in 50 percent to 90 percent of cases.
Even with appropriate antibiotics and hospital care, about 15 percent of plague patients in the United States die. Pneumonic plague is the most rapidly fatal form of plague, and most victims will die if they do not receive antibiotics within the first 18 hours after symptoms begin."
-Source [intelihealth.com]
It's not totally fatal, though those that survive often have permanent scaring. After all some infected people managed to live through it even back in the European dark ages. Of course it's more than bad enough that I wouldn't ever want to encounter it.
Re:To clarify a couple points (Score:2, Interesting)
=> So the solution would be to use directly DNA Analysis, or an automated Marker Machine, so as to check immediatly the DNA Strain and treat it with proper care.
Could also be used to be sure that the medicine we told you to take are effective against your own specific flue strain (that from somebody wo never cached the mainstream disease and ended up with an inneficient generic treatment)
Only problem is that automated DNA Analysers are WAY out of budget for 99.999 Hospitals.
But a part of the future lies there...
"It's a three-part chain involving rodents, fleas, and humans" => I never understood the need for fleas, before somebody told me abour food chain. Right now, I still don't find a need for Mosquitoes (bloody bastards 8| ).
Re:To clarify a couple points (Score:2)
So now we'll have new variants... (Score:1, Funny)
Infectious Disease Variants! Collect the WHOLE set!
Re:So now we'll have new variants... (Score:2)
Re:So now we'll have new variants... (Score:2)
The white plague - Top-notch genetic researcher loses his family in IRA bombing, goes insane, sells his house and everything he owns for a quarter million in lab equipment. Spends the next two years unraveling genetic code and designs himself the White Plague, his way of getting even. He unleashes the plague in Ireland and a handful of other places, then threatens to spread it to other nations if they try to interfere.
The white plague was a genetically tailored disease that killed only women, while men remained carriers to spread the disease. Thus our protagonist would get his revenge by making the nation of Ireland feel the same loss he did.
In the 70's, when this was written, it was sci-fi. Gene-tech was (pun intended) still in its embryonic phases. A first-year bio student can read the book and find that all the info in there that was cutting edge at the time of writing are now old hat. So, where are we headed?
Funnier than you are... (Score:2)
"Eat a Dead Gay Baby for Jesus!"
And also... (Score:1)
Cats rule (Score:1, Interesting)
All in the timing. (Score:4, Funny)
Grr!
What they REALLY need to decode is whatever virus it is that prompts record executives to pull together a group of 4-5 teenage boys and turn them into a 'boy band'. Cure THAT virus, and the world will thank you.
Re:All in the timing. GOD WILL NOT LIKE THIS! (Score:2)
This is God's lawyer.
Re: I'd just like to reiterate... (Score:2)
Hence the name "bubonic".
Re:All in the timing. (Score:2)
One down, two to go? (Score:1)
So then the cures for cancer and aids should be just around the corner right?
Re:One down, two to go? (Score:1)
AIDS doesn't get enough priority, because too many people regard life without sex as somehow worthwhile.
Excellent! (Score:4, Informative)
Also, before people go off on biological weapons, etc, consider that there have been several recent breakouts of this disease, particularly in the southwest US(where I'm from). Don't know what I'm talking about? Check out this [cnn.com] as an example. I remember reading in the paper in AZ about outbreaks occasionally and shuddering. A cure would be a godsend--even though there are only about 10-15 cases in the US a year, its a painful way to go.
Re:Excellent! (Score:2, Funny)
Best to stay away from those history books then!
:)
Is it getting open sourced? (Score:1)
Open Source Black Death!
Re:Is it getting open sourced? (Score:2)
From their press-release: "Details of the sequencing are posted on the internet so the information is freely available to researchers around the world."
Don't you watch the documentaries? (Score:1)
It is a curse word, as overuse of it brings about the curse of the Black Death. Also avoid other curse words such as "fuck" and "mekrob".
not so useless (Score:1)
Plague and a little childs song - OT (Score:2, Interesting)
"ring-a-ring-a roses,
pocket full of posies,
husha busha,
all fall down"
and never really understood what it was all about. then i found out that it was referring to the black plague epidemic of London when about a third(?) of the population was wiped out and people actually dropped dead on the streets...
Interesting (Score:2)
I could honestly see it either way. I must admit that when I read the Bubonic Plague reference, it rang as highly plausible as a sort of darkly humorous play that might have evolved in the aftermath of the plague.
The 'debunkings' I've read at Snopes and elsewhere aren't tremendously convincing to me despite the extremely self-confident tone in which they are written. In the end, though, I'd go with the allergy/sneezing/fall down idea.
A couple questions (Score:3, Interesting)
The scientists were saying they knew that the bacteria modified itself and they even knew that it did it 1500 years ago. How do they know that? Would anyone with some knowledge of this care to speculate?
Re:A couple questions (Score:3)
The press release from the Sanger Center actually says that they have a vaccine undergoing trials and that the sequencing efforts from this project helped the research for the vaccine. You don't need a full genome to do sequence analysis. Indeed, if you have some idea for what you are looking for, you can find fairly efficiently. The scientists were saying they knew that the bacteria modified itself and they even knew that it did it 1500 years ago. How do they know that? Would anyone with some knowledge of this care to speculate?
Here is a speculation, because I have not read the actual Nature paper: They recognize some genomic material in the bacteria coming from some other bacteria. By analysing the amount of mutations in the incorporated material, they can get an estimate of how long ago it was incorporated.
Speculation 2: They computed evolutionary tree for different strains of plague bacteria and its relatives based on some genomic region with nice properties. This tree could give you estimates for when the strains started to deviate. Then, by studying for what bacteria the new modified material is common, you can decide the earliest point of inclusion.
No, thanks (Score:1)
Could be Useful..... (Score:1)
I'm not suggesting that we're likely to see a similar resurgence of bubonic plague; the mechanism of transmission is very different. My point is that conditions at some point in the future could allow a plague outbreak to occur.
Could an antibiotic resistant variant of bubonic plague appear? Could enviromental conditions increase the number of plague carrying rodents? The list goes on. While this research might not be a priority, it's certainly worthwhile.
Per Ardua Ad Astra
black plague may have been caused by a virus... (Score:1)
The Yersinia pestis work is of course still very interesting and important, but I think the virus theory makes more sense... check it out!
Karma-whoring: Some info links (Score:5, Informative)
Also "A Distant Mirror" by Barbara Tuchman (Score:2)
this classic has a largish chapter devoted to
the Black Death and its effects upon medieval
society and thinking. An Amazon link:
[amazon.com]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/03453495
Re:Karma-whoring: Some info links (Score:2)
Rats and fleas not to blame (Score:2, Informative)
Not far from AIDS (Score:3, Insightful)
Now the chances are VERY big that this same immunity is causing some people that are HIV possitive never to get AIDS.
Now we can only hope that the two discoveries can work together in ending both AIDS and the plague.
Re:Not far from AIDS (Score:2, Informative)
Black Plague, AIDS immunity linked [nwsource.com]
Scientists Discover Similarity in HIV and Black Death [nationalviatical.org]
Re:Not far from AIDS (Score:3, Informative)
But let's stay positive and hope this little far-fetched theory turns out to be true. Tell me, how are you going to cure AIDS with it? Targeted gene replacement of CCR5 in macrophages? That's SciFi, and won't happen in the next 10 yrs IM-not-so-HO. Also, it's not very cost-effective: it only works as a defence when you get infected by someone in the earlier stages of HIV infection, so the use is to limited. Plus, I don't see how the genome of Y.pestis would help to understand the HIV-macrophage virus-host interaction better, but maybe I'm prejudiced towards the use of genomics. I wouldn't bet my money on this being the cure for aids.
Okay let's stop here. I've lost the average
Regards,
Meneer de Koekepeer
A cure for the plague (Score:2, Funny)
karma whoring? what a fine idea. (Score:1, Redundant)
Yeah i am bored and read these, and you can too.
From the article: (Score:5, Funny)
Oh my god I would hate to die that way. Please just let me drown or get consumed by rats. Anything, but please don't let them print an obituary about me that admits that I was killed by a sneezing cat.
More info (Score:2)
Also some of you RPG or SCI-FI lovers should check out the series called Amber for another story of the black death.
SS
timely... (Score:2)
"Bring out ya dead..."
E.
endemic in Colorado and California rodents (Score:2)
new plague in Afganistan (Score:2)
About damned time! (Score:2)
The plague has been causing problems for mankind since the middle ages! Damned high time they finally dealt with it! Of course, if it took them this long to deal with the plague, I don't expect to see any cures for these modern diseases any time soon! Damned doctors cost too much anyway...
Grand Forks, ND (Score:2, Interesting)
Discover had an article about Plague this month.. (Score:2)
Apparently, the Soviets developed a strain that is resistant to antibiotics before the bio-weapons military program was shut down in the early 90s.
They worry about plauge over there the way our guys worry about anthrax over here.
BTW, they mentioned in the article that in addition to small-to-moderate sized outbreaks in third world countries, we receive a couple of cases of plague here in the U.S., mostly in the Southeast where people are infected by bites from prairie dog fleas. The plague bug lives quite happily amongst the prairie dogs -- it's only an unfortunate turn in natural selection that made it infect humans (remember, the number rule for a parasite is *DON'T KILL THE HOST*).
Bubonic to Pneumonic (Score:2, Interesting)
Hygine does play an obvious and important factor in all of this as bathing was seen as something to avoid in order to stay healthy.
Feel free to correct me as needed.
Think of the possibilities! (Score:2)
(Yes! I am being a cynic)
Re: (Score:2)
Gene functions (Score:2, Informative)
1 Small molecule metabolism
AIDS? (Score:2)
On a side note, natural selection has made many people of European descent are resistant to HIV. A small percentage are actually entirely immune.
If Only... (Score:2)
Re:It's not fair (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It's not fair (Score:1, Insightful)
But then again, if you can read this, you already knew that.
Re:Wasteful (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wasteful (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wasteful (Score:4, Insightful)
Which is why you worry. People playing with bio engineering could come up with a new version that could be very nasty.
Re:Wasteful (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Wasteful (Score:1)
Why worry about people bio-engineering nastier versions when the ones that already exist (of this and other diseases with the potential to be bio-weapons) are already quite nasty enough?
We're understandably hearing a lot of talk about diseases being used as weapons of terror. Fortunately, such attacks would require considerably more expertise than merely knowing how to fly a crop duster. While it is something to take very seriously, I'm still more concerned about hijackers. Why should terrorists trouble themselves with biological weapons when they can wreak such mayhem with box cutters?
Re:Wasteful (Score:2)
I'm not concerned at all anymore with hijackings. In fact, I would reasonably argue that we're not going to have another hijacking for a long time now. Why? Because the hijackers now know that the procedures have changed. Pilots aren't going to be cooperative anymore. Passengers aren't going to sit back and let them control the situation. It is practically impossible to get a bomb or gun on an aircraft these days. That means the only thing you may face is a knife they someone got through security. Unless these guys are Bruce Lee, 60 people on an airplane can easily overpower a group of 4 or 5 hijackers as long as they maintain in their mind that there is no way a gun or bomb could be on the plane.
Anyway, the point is, the suicide hijackers are probably planning something else at this point (bioterrorism, chemical weapons, truck bombs, etc.) and the non-suicidal hijackers are not stupid enough to hijack a plane at this point when they KNOW that everyone is going to assume the plane will be used as a weapon and will not cooperate with them. That's all the hijackers used to have going for them and these terrorists blew it for them.. literally.
Re:Wasteful (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wasteful (Score:2, Funny)
It can still be found in the unhygenic squalor of Colorado [cnn.com]. In fact, the strain analyzed by the researchers in this study came from the United States in 1992.
I'm afraid I can't attest from first hand knowledge whether or not Colorado Springs qualifies as a shanty-town.
Re:Wasteful (Score:1)
Re:Wasteful (Score:2, Informative)
vaccine availability (Score:5, Interesting)
CDC is the only source of vaccinia vaccine and VIG for civilians. CDC will provide vaccinia vaccine to protect laboratory and other health-care personnel whose occupations place them at risk for exposure to vaccinia and other closely related Orthopoxviruses, including vaccinia recombinants. Vaccine should be administered under the supervision of a physician selected by the institution. Vaccine will be shipped to the responsible physician. Requests for vaccine and VIG, including the reason for the request, should be referred to
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Drug Services, National Center for Infectious Diseases
Mailstop D-09
Atlanta, GA 30333
Telephone: (404) 639-3670
Facsimile: (404) 639-3717
Plague:
Plague vaccine is available in the United States from Greer Labs. Plague vaccine USP is manufactured by Greer Laboratories, Inc., P.O. Box 800, Lenoir, NC, 28645-0800, telephone (800)438-0088 or (704)754-5327. The vaccine is shipped refrigerated in 20ml vials and should be stored at 2-8 degrees C (35-46 degrees F). It should not be frozen. The following groups of people should consider vaccination:
Persons working with the plague bacterium in the laboratory or in the field. Persons working in plague-affected areas or with potentially infected animals where they have little control over their environments, particularly in developing countries.
I don't know where you might find tularemia vaccine or some of the other lesser known organisms.
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:1, Funny)
Thank you for your support, however. Perhaps we should coordinate our posting times so we can get the most bang for our buck here, and avoid duplicating efforts.
Re:This will go a long way towards vaccinations... (Score:1)
Re:This will go a long way towards vaccinations... (Score:2, Informative)
Once you have isolated the DNA (you know the stuff that carries the genome), the decoding principle is the same. Since a virus is less complex than a bacterium, it's probably easier to isolate DNA from virii. Furthermore a virus generally contains a much shorter genome than a bacterium.
Although I don't have any hands-on experience with virii, I can hardly imagine that sequencing the genome of a virus is more difficult than sequencing the genome of a bacterium.
Regards,
Meneer de Koekepeer
Umm (Score:1)
Vectors (Score:2)
A vector is the thing that moves the infectious agent (bacterium or virus) to a new host. Unless you want to count the bloodstream or lymph or other internal body systems as a "vector" for infection spread within the body. But vector really refers to movements of agents between hosts.
"Host" makes it sound so ambivalent eh? I guess it's a nicer than saying poor doomed bastard(s).
Re:Hacking Virii/Bacterium? (Score:2)
Thou shalt speak of one "bacterium" and many "bacteria."
Thou shalt speak of one "virus" and many "viruses."
Thou shalt not speak of many "bacterium," and neither shalt thou speak of "virii" ever again in My hearing; for "bacterium" is singular, and "virii" is not a word, and is an abomination in My ears.
Honor these laws which I have given thee, that thy days be long and thy communications be clear.
Re:Folding Protiens (Score:2)