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Area 51 Satellite Images 160

Posted by Roblimo from the Where-is-Art-Bell-when-we-need-him? dept.
JCallery writes: "CNN has a story about recent photographs of Area 51 that were shot by a satellite launched by a private company (Aerial Images Inc.) and the Russian Space Agency. They are of great quality, showing everything from buses and hangars to an aircraft covered with a tarp. See the images for yourself!" (UFO conspiracy buffs may also want to check this BBC story sent in by Rafael.)
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Area 51 Satellite Images More

Area 51 Satellite Images

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  • Re:Slashdot Days (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I vote for Grits guy! He is by far the coolest on Slashdot, I also vote for Natalie to to play the part of Leather Tuxedaro.

    Ralph and Potsie would be Taco and Hemos, Chachi would be played by Roblimo and Cowboy Neal as Big Al!

  • Area 51 is still live (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @03:35AM (#1126559)
    There is no substance whatsoever to the absurd rumor that Area 51 and its operations were abandoned and were relocated elsewhere, such as to the Green River missile complex in Utah. This rumor originated in a poorly-researched article that first appeared in the June 1997 issue of Popular Mechanics. No doubt the article was greatly "appreciated" by Nellis Air Force Base, particularly by those at the "remote operating base" at Groom Lake, Nevada. The folks at Nellis AFB probably rolled on floor laughing over the article, which was riddled with factual errors. The Popular Mechanics piece also must have brought much delight to then-Secretary of the Air Force Sheila Widnall. It can only be hoped that this type of misinformed article did not successfully curtail the public's interest in and rightful scrutiny of Area 51, particularly in regards to those issues relative to the alleged infractions of environmental statutes at the site. The article, written by Jim Wilson, science editor of Popular Mechanics, inferred that the Air Force had abandoned top-secret testing at its once most secret test site. Then Wilson came to the hasty conclusion that "we know why and we know where they moved to (i.e., Utah)." Nothing is farther from the truth than this overly generalized inference. Jim Wilson, despite his probable sincerity and good intentions, obviously missed the big picture. To begin with, he obviously took a wrong turn on "Groom Lake dirt road" and went to a location that had very little to do with Area 51. It was obvious from the photo that what he did was go south on the "Mail Box dirt road" from Highway 375, crossed the "Groom Lake dirt road" and went south until he encountered an old, poorly maintained wind fence. Wilson apparently believed that he had arrived at the back gate of Area 51, when in reality he had arrived at the northeastern boundary of Range 61. Based on what he saw there, Wilson decided that nothing was happening at Area 51, rashly stating that "the 'cammo dudes' are no longer patrolling the perimeter of Area 51" and further stating that "what we found was a securely locked wind fence that appears to have been undisturbed for months." Wilson commented that even though he had arrived at the back door to Area 51, there was "no guard post". Yet there never was a guard post at that location, ever! He also stated in the article that the "warning signs flanking the gate aren't very threatening either." Perhaps he didn't realize that there never existed any "threatening" warning signs at that location except for a sign that says "NO TRESPASSING: Nellis Bombing Range." The location Wilson was at is not Area 51 -- it is merely the northeastern boundary of Range 61. From this, Wilson drew the stunning conclusion that Area 51 has been shut down! I suggest next time that he go to the right location, towards the real Guard Shack area (west all the way on Groom Lake Road) where he may really encounter the "cammo dudes," white Jeep Cherokees and perhaps a Blackhawk chopper or two to welcome him, if he dare stray into the Guard Shack area. He would also see "threatening" warning signs along the dirt road that clearly state: "LETHAL FORCE WILL BE USED." In fact, according to several reliable sources, the intensity of the activity at Groom Lake has not decreased at all. There may be more going on now at Groom Lake than ever before. In October of 1997, I observed the Groom Lake facility from high atop Tikaboo Peak and verified with my own eyes that the facility is definitely still in operation there. A couple of new water tanks seem to have been added recently behind the big hangar area. Also, upon comparison with a high-resolution panoramic photo that I acquired (allegedly taken several months after the closure of both the Freedom Ridge and White Sides), I have no doubt that there is new construction underway, particularly along the southwest slope next to Groom Lake. (I had observed the Groom Lake facility a number of times before from both the White Sides hill and the Freedom Ridge before those hills became off-limits to the public). Also, at 7:30 on the night before I climbed Tikaboo Peak in October 1997, I happened to be standing with my companions at the exact spot where Jim Wilson had stood at the northeastern boundary of Range 61. As we were looking in the direction of Groom Lake, we were startled by a sudden illumination of the sky towards Groom Lake and witnessed three or four reddish balls of light that appeared and then disappeared momentarily, after which the sky over that area returned to total darkness. I am unable to speculate what those reddish balls of light were -- they were definitely different from the military aircraft flares that I had seen many times near Area 51 -- but this unexplained aerial activity continued intermittently, occurring about three times during the next twenty minutes or so. Without question, there was activity of some kind that night at Groom Lake, in stark contrast to Wilson's misinformed allegation that nothing is going on at Area 51 and that nothing was going on when he was standing at the northeastern boundary of Range 61, looking towards the Groom Mountains. Wilson probably just dropped by during a slow week. And regardless, we must bear in mind that Area 51's most sensitive programs are allegedly conducted below ground level. Primarily because of the Popular Mechanics article, the whole world seems to have gotten the impression that there is nothing going on at Area 51, and that everything had moved to the Green River Missile Launch "complex" in Utah. One of the erroneous facts that Wilson mentioned in his article was that there was an "officially named Area 6413" in Utah. There is no "officially name Area 6413" in Utah. What he obviously meant to say was Restricted Air Space 6413 in Utah. However, it is my understanding that to this date, anyone who wants to visit can get a good, close look at the Green River Missile Launch "complex" -- unlike Area 51, where the military continues its attempts to annex more land in order to push back the "NO TRESPASSING" boundary. For that reason, I highly doubt that there is anything top-secret going on at RAS 6413. The new "non-lethal" weapons programs at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah interest me much more than the Green River Missile Launch complex. We should keep a closer watch on these "non-lethal" programs as well as the new "bacteriological warfare programs" going on at Dugway, instead of wasting time chasing windmills at the Green River complex. It is worth noting that Wilson's Popular Mechanics stands in drastic contrast with the more substantial article that coincidentally appeared one month prior, in the May 1997 issue of Popular Science. The article makes several mentions of Area 51, the inference being that there was still plenty going on at Groom Lake. According to reports from the Monitoring Times and other publications, some of the ongoing programs at Area 51 include a new series of B-2 bomber by Northrop/Grumman at S-2, possible newer versions of Darkstar (Tier 3 -- UAV) by Lockheed at S-4 and Tier 2+ and Tier 3+ UAVs at S-9 by Teledyne Ryan Aero. Furthermore, following the Popular Mechanics article in June 1997, I was informed that some new components of new, small-scale VOTL produced by Lockheed had just been transferred to Groom from Air Force Plant 42 in Palmdale, California. There is no doubt that new generations of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs -- remote controlled surveillance platforms, some of which may be oval shaped, etc.) are being tested at Groom Lake. New "skins" for a new generation of stealth programs are being tested as well, as noted by the May 1997 issue of Popular Science. A new generation of "electrochromic panels" are probably being tested at the facility as well. A move towards "daytime" stealth capability (such as through the use of special sensors for transmission of image reflections of the background environment on the lower as well as upper bodies of the aircraft) may also be in the works at Area 51. I would not be surprised at all if they were working on even more exotic weapons programs, such as limited tri-dimensional holographic image maximization that could be integrated with the "electrochromic panels" and used not merely to reflect background environment on the aircraft to bring about "transparency effect," but to bring about some distorted image size of the aircraft as well. All this, in addition to several new black, triangular aircraft (such as the alleged TR-3A Black Manta) that they may be working on, underscores the point that while there may indeed be some new programs going on in Utah and elsewhere, the allegations that Area 51 "moved" to Utah are totally unfounded. by Norio Hayakawa ParaScope Correspondent GroomWatch@aol.com

  • Re:The /. Effect (Score:4)

    by phil reed ( 626 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @01:06AM (#1126560) Homepage
    If you remember back when Microsoft first unleashed TerraServer on the world, they made a big thing about how it was the largest online database (subject to a considerable amount of debate, see this old Slashdot article [slashdot.org]), and how well-suited NT was to handle it. Shortly after the site went live and melted down, MS upgraded the system to handle the hammering it got from the initial Slashdot effect. Either the /. effect has gotten worse, MS took some hardware away, or NT bit rot has set in.


    ...phil
  • You wouldn't really need maps for that, processing power maybe. Consider a satelliet using radar to scan the area beneath it, if it detects something that is at 20,000ft while everything immediately around it is at 1,500ft you can safely assume that that is either a plane or a (_very_ tall thin tower).
  • I haven't seen the terraserver pictures (except what CNN aired this morning) since the site is still getting hit by the CNN/Yahoo/CBS/Slashdot effect. But I have online pictures [kluft.com] that I took in November which show that you can see this base from airliners without much difficulty if you have some idea where to look.

    I photographed it out the window of a Delta Airlines Boeing 757 at 38,000 feet on a flight from Atlanta to San Jose. The flight went to the north of the base.

    At 7.5 miles in altitude, you can see the base from unrestricted airspace. Look for a round dry lakebed with a straight line (runway) across the southern third of it. There is also a shorter parallel runway that doesn't go onto the lakebed. It's north of Las Vegas and east of the southern Sierra Nevada mountains. It helps to have some practice spotting runways from the air - ask any private pilot for help with that.

    Back in 1997, I was able to see the base (but didn't have film in my camera) from the south on an American Airlines 757 from San Jose to Dallas around 39,000 feet. I saw sunlight glint/sparkle off the windows of buildings south of the lakebed indicating a small city's worth of a base there. (Couldn't see the buildings themselves but reflected sunlight can give away stuff like that.) So I know it can be seen from both the north and the south from unrestricted airspace.

    Personally, I'm not interested in the conspiracy theory stuff. But as an aviation enthusiast, I'd be curious to find out some day what airplane needs/needed a 4-mile-long runway. Was it just the SR-71 or were there more? :-)

  • Of course the real area 51 is in Colorado near ....$#@#$ NO CARRIER

  • terraserver doesn't lend itself to mirroring (Score:3)

    by jeffg ( 2966 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @01:21AM (#1126564)

    First off, there's some difference between http://www.terraserver.com/ and http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ -- The general look and feel of the sites, as well as significant chunks of their functionality (and no, I don't know which was there "first"). I believe the two sites share the same dataset in many cases, whether by nature of those data being available to both parties or by way of cooperation between the two.

    Aerial Images, Inc. (TERRASERVER-DOM)
    615 Hillsborough Street
    Raleigh, NC 27603

    Domain Name: TERRASERVER.COM

    Results of a traceroute and destination ip's are different as well. Not to mention the fact that the http://www.terraserver.com/ site isn't responding all that well, while the http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ site is.

    http://www.terraserver.com/ doesn't like people using their images. They've invested a bit of money into getting the pics up there, and they are interested in keeping a closer hold on things. Last time I visited their site, there was a bit of java (iirc, it desired full permissions as well) that prevented many things such as printing and saving of the images. http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ does things a little nicer in that most of their imagery is a series of images fused together in a table.

    So, http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ is responding, but no guarantees as to the existence of the data in question.

  • AccuWeather 5-Day Forecast for AREA 51 (Score:5)

    by jeffg ( 2966 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @01:01AM (#1126565)

    While you're waiting for terraserver to start responding again, perhaps you're wondering what the weather's like out at beautiful Groom Lake today, you can check http://www.accuweather.com/a dcbin/alien_index?nav=home [accuweather.com] for the full 5-day forecast.

    Humidity: 50%

    Dew Point: 34
    **Men in Black: 40
    Winds: S 20 mph
    Pressure: 29.83" R
    Visibility: 20 mi.
    **Unmarked helicopters: 27
  • Is there a site that will return coordinates when you give it street addresses? This site brought the question out, but I'm also interested in getting a GPS and would like to be able to just put addresses in as coordinates.

    LetterJ

  • Nothing secert on show.... (Score:4)

    by troc ( 3606 ) <[troc] [at] [mac.com]> on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @12:56AM (#1126567) Homepage Journal
    Well of course there isn't anything secret to be seen....

    The US will know the flight paths of the satellites and will therefore know when it's safe to wheel out their latest test 'planes or whatever. Most of the big governments monitor the flights of satellites by radar as a matter of course these days. They restrict 'planes because they can fly over at any time (although I'm sure the Area 51 radar would pick them up.... :)

    There are, of course, no little green men as there never were any UFO landings and if there had been, we've all seen the X-files.... they are little grey men :)

    heh

    Troc
  • Haven't you been paying attention. You can't hear the black helicopters. They use special alien technology and are silent.
  • Isn't Terraserver running on Microsoft "technology"? Wasn't it (falsely) advertised by them as the biggest database on the Web? (falsely, as IBM's patent server was bigger anyway).
  • Have you tried running it in vmware, then using your X screenshot prog of choice (mine is ksnapshot) to take the image, then pull it into gimp for further cropping?

    Again, copy protection merely inconveniences everyone and performs no useful protective function since anyone who really wants to copy the data can do so pretty easily..


    Your Working Boy,
  • Perhaps this will help...

    http://terraserver.microsoft.com/

    - Jeff A. Campbell
    - VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com])
  • ...or standard Microsoft technology?
  • The real problem with these fools who rant about captured UFOs & aliens is that they have *no* clue, are clue hostile, and wouldn't buy a clue if you *gave* 'em a roll of quarters.

    Most know zilch about science and technology, and would probably tell you that microcomputers and microwaves were gotten from UFOs.

    The *real* proof that we've never found one is that there have been *no* utterly unlooked-for breakthroughs in the last 50 years, technologically speaking; that we can trace the science for *everything*.

    Of course, the other proof is that, when Congress looked into the Blue Book, they couldn't find any memos, and, as some Congresscritter put it, can you imagine *any* gov't agency working for 50 years with no memos? To which I'd add, can you imagine *this* gov't, which leaks secrets like a sieve, keeping this a secret for 50 years?

    mark

  • /. effect? Or a vast conspiracy?

    This government thing is HUGE...it goes all the way to the president!!!
  • Something the USAF did with the F117 program was to fly tests and training missions at night. The planes were kept inside hangars during the day. Try to take a picture of a black airplane, in the middle of nowhere, at night.
  • Well, that confirms it.

    There is no "Area 51".

    Sure, to the un-indoctrinated, it MAY appear that Terraserver is slashdotted, but those of us 'in the know' know better.

    Be afraid. Be VERY afraid...
    (no, wait, wrong movie)

    Secretary: "Hey Jabber, there's an Agent Smith here to see you.."
  • Which will bring us to next generation satellites (if they already aren't in existence).

    This is the conspiracy theorist in me, but I'm waiting to satellite that can determine objects based on topography anomalies. For example, if the ground is at 1500 ft bove sea level, and the satellite spots an object at 20,000 ft. The satellite would know that the object is not part of the landscape. So that object would be tracked. What would be really neat if the precision could be taken to the level of detecting vehicles painted black could be detected.

    Such a project would require heavily detailed maps and large processing power to spot anomalies. But would be a neat project to work with.

  • That would make sense if the development of the F-22 wasn't public knowledge for an incredibly long time. Apparently you weren't paying attention back when the military issued a proposal request for the initial ATF (Advanced Tactical Fighter), and then when they debated over choosing between the YF-22 and YF-23 prototypes, for which specs were available to the public in the 80's (excluding the insides of the weapon bay doors, which to my knowledge are still classified).

    Of course that makes the F-22 no less cool, it just makes Congress stupid for pulling the funding on the ATF project so that we now have no measureable quantity of F-22's to show for all the research.
  • By the same logic that lets bootleggers videotape movies in the theater, bring up whatever image you want, let them stick whatever copyprotection on it they want, and just snapshot the whole damn screen. In X there are a number of programs to do this, in Windows press PrintScreen and paste into a graphics editor. Then proceed to use it for personal use only, of course.

    When will they learn?
  • The Terraserver website doesn't respond. Slashdotted already? FBI raid? Attacks by UFOs?

  • Truth is stranger than fiction.. (Score:5)

    by Bowie J. Poag ( 16898 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @03:54AM (#1126581) Homepage


    Down here in Tucson, we have a wonderful little thing called "The Graveyard". The local Air Force base (Davis-Monthan AFB) carries out a strange task....Portions of the base are used as a gigantic graveyard for decomissioned aircraft, and other aircraft destroyed due to arms-control treaties.

    There is a gigantic guillotine-like device which basically chops up aircraft out there -- bombers, fighter planes, etc. What happens is, periodically, some planes are chopped up, and then left out in the desert for a few days so that Russian spy satellites can photograph it. The Russians are basically doing the same thing on their end..chopping up planes and leaving them out in the open so our spy satellites can confirm that they are keeping up their end of the bargain. :)

    There are places you can drive outside of Tucson, public roads that run near the perimeter of the graveyard -- 747's with their heads cut off as far as the eye can see, literally hundreds of mothballed F-14s and F-15 Strike Eagles, lots of bizzare stuff. Its all cordoned off with barbwire and periodically patrolled by military police with teams of guard dogs.

    You can have a look at a portion of the aircraft graveyard right here [microsoft.com].

    The truth is always much, much stranger than fiction. :)


    Bowie J. Poag
    Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://metalab.unc.edu/propaganda [unc.edu])
  • I wonder if this was one of the many reasons that the shuttle flew that mapping mission recently--to generate maps detailed enough for this to work.

    (Of course, as a Civil Engineer, I would love to get my hands on that mapping data myself. :-)

  • Did anybody else notice the 18 wheeler with the FOX logo screened on the top? This leads me to believe one of two things. First, this is actually just the set of the new X-Files movie. Or second, the US govenment has employed FOX to do their coverup footage. In fact, if you look closely, you can almost see a disected alient being wheeled on a strecher from the FOX trailer into that big building labled "TOP SECRET, NO CAMERA CREWS"
  • .
    For those who may not know, this is a brilliant parody of the geekish 307 Ale by Tom Smith [tomsmithonline.com], the world's fastest Filker. Filk can be described as parody songs in the same sense that coding can be descibed as hitting keys. It's a subculture often found in the wee hours at SF conventions.

    Here's the original lyrics, and I recommend his album wholeheartedly to any /.er:

    307 Ale, by Tom Smith

    There's many drinks you'll drink, me lads, on every world that's new.
    There's Saurian Brandy, Cranapple Schnapps, and a good old Tullamore Don't.
    There's Busch and Beck and Bud and Bock and others dark and pale,
    But I think you'll find the finest kind is Three-Oh-Seven Ale.

    (chorus)

    Three-Oh-Seven Ale, me lads, Three-Oh-Seven Ale,
    The finest drink that any bar has ever had for sale,
    It'll lay your whole damn world to waste, it'll make you fit and hale,
    There's nothing that you'll ever taste like Three-Oh-Seven Ale, me lads,
    Three-Oh-Seven Ale.

    It started out at M.I.T. one lazy summer day,
    When a couple of the frat-boy techies started in to play,
    They'd caught up on their schedule with a couple hours to kill,
    So they fitted up the cyclotron and made themselves a still.

    (chorus)

    They added choice ingredients to brew a little brew,
    But they didn't know the wires were crossed in Chamber Number Two.
    A tiny bit of space got folded, things were looking queer --
    They turned the spout and then came out the world's first Hyper-Beer.

    (chorus)

    It bubbled and it burbled and it glowed a fizzly green,
    And what it did to test equipment, frankly, was obscene.
    It took awhile to find a vial it wouldn't burst to flame,
    Then they measured out its potency, and that's how it was named.

    (slower)

    There's many drinks you'll drink, me lads, but this one beats them all:
    One hundred fifty-three and one-half percent alcohol,
    A beer, brewed in a tesseract, that'll shoot you through the roof --
    And if you don't believe me, I've got lots and lots of proof.

    (final chorus)

    Three-Oh-Seven Ale, me lads, Three-Oh-Seven Ale,
    The finest drink that any bar has ever had for sale,
    It'll lay your whole damn world to waste, it'll make you fit and hale,
    It sticks to your mouth like library paste,
    With a stronger kick than toxic waste,
    There's nothing that you'll ever taste
    Like Three-Oh-Seven Ale!

    -- Evan

  • Odd. It was created by Microsoft to demonstrate the capabilities of SQL Server 6.5, and when it went live three years ago, it was under the microsoft umbrella. I wonder when/if they sold it.

    Kevin Fox
  • Has nobody noticed that terraserver is owned and operated by Microsoft?

    Sounds to me that this is a case of "Show our business practices to the world and we'll show yours!"

    Kevin Fox
  • I know someone works for the company that hosts terraserver, and they're currently filtering out all requests to the area 51 images. Why? Probably the slashdot effect. Along with the image requests, the box managed to greatly increase in portscan activity when the article was posted on slashdot, and from what I understand, there's only one guy who has to handle all this increase in traffic and security.

    I wonder if increased port-scanning is a problem with most slashdotted sites. It seems to me an undesireable side-effect of being linked to on slashdot.
  • Readers of Alan Moore's (and Dave Gibbon's :) Watchmen [ubalt.edu] know all about the smiley face on Mars [ubalt.edu].
  • Just think, if the page is /.ed, then perhaps the nation's supply of black helicopters is also... Only so many people to spy on... (I think I hear one now.)
  • Forget about copy protection. Any non-classified image or map produced by the USGS (or any branch of the goverment) is in the public domain. Use them as you please. Though it would be nice to give credit where credit is due.
  • Perhaps it's just me, but is anyone else finding that terraserver.com isn't accepting connections ATM???

    Conspiracy theorists of the world unite! You have nothing to lose except your psuedonyms!
  • > At least they all still have the Mars Face...

    Well, unfortunately that has been disproven. :/

    However, they recently found a smiley face [nasa.gov] on mars.

    Sheesh..it's amazing how we look so far into things.
  • Now the question is...

    How can one be sure that they're not just moving the same aircraft around the place, so they look like they're chopping up lots of aircraft, when in fact it's just the same 20 aircraft..

    Makes you think
    or not.
  • This AP Wire News [yahoo.com] story stupidly reports that the "Area 51 site is not responding". I'm not sure when it became news that a website is slow, but it sure seems kinda ironic that one news organization (AP) is reporting on the effect created by another news organization (Slashdot).

  • Area 51 not useful any longer (Score:3)

    by ajs ( 35943 ) <ajs.ajs@com> on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @01:32AM (#1126595) Homepage Journal
    Area 51 is still used for test flights, but as I understand it, all of the really interesting stuff (in terms of the latest and greatest prototype planes) is now elsewhere (including Denver, where high-altitude tests take place).

    But, still. As a former sysadmin for IKS (a gimp-like programmers library from the late 80s) I can still appreciate good sattelite images. I still chuckle at the story someone told of showing off the project's demo where a de-classified image of a plane was enhanced to the point that you could make out the numbers on the wing. They were showing this at a trade show, and some air-force type comes by and his jaw hits the floor. Apparently he was the one who de-classified the image ;-)

    Soon thereafter they went back to using some playmate from the 70s....
  • I've been told printscreen is disabled in Windows when the plugin runs... any window capture (like L-View or many others) will work just fine...

    Another proposed remedy was to run VMWare and gimp capture it.

    Whatever works 8^)
  • I first came to TerraServer a few years ago and was disappointed. Not by the images, by the lousy server. I wasn't at all surprised when the area51 images didn't load today.

    I'm tired of bashing Microsoft. Their just too damn big to dismiss everything produced with a MS seal. Microsoft has some teams of very smart people are producing brilliant products and despite the DOJ case, actually innovating.

    Too bad the TerraServer support crew isn't one of those teams.

    Of course the Slashdot effect with a CNN chaser is going to be a lot for anyone to handle, but I bet the server will still be having trouble next week and next month and on and on.

    It's really a shame, TerraServer is a great idea and something I'd spend days with, if frustration didn't constantly chase me away.

    joe maller

  • Solaris and JPG's!!! That would keep it up.. course.. then they'd lose their ability to make money from the pics...

  • No, mainly because terraserver is owned and operated by Aerial Images, not Microsoft.

  • Aerial Images provided them with the Spin images as well as some of the others, they marketed and provided the 'service' for them, but it's still Aerial Images, not M$, the CNN article even had that, as does the BBC article, Dan Rather's interview.. Seems only on /. is Microsoft suddenly owning this..

  • The link has an .asp at the end.. it's NT ;).

  • It doesn't, terraserver.com is owned by Aerial Images. Who provided some of the stuff for terraserver.microsoft.com they aren't the same however.

  • Sorry, can't mirror it unless someone wants to pay for each image.. seeing the 2 meter shots was very interesting I must say, but nothing more than a base (come on people, what exactly were we expecting here anyway? Operating on Aliens in the wide open space? Flying UFO's around?) The US knew the Russian satellite was there, suprised they didn't do something stupid like draw a big 'X' in the ground.. oh wait.. they did..

  • Try it... you get a nice screenshot of the web browser with a nice little "Clever Content" tiled image where the satellite pics are.. ctrl-prtscn is disabled by the plug-in as well.

  • I haven't tried in VMWare like mentioned above, but have tried the time out with Paint Shop Pro, got the same thing. The browser/plugin had focus, I think it is because (view the source) each image is loaded via a seperate ASP page launched by the plugin, so if your graphics proggy doesn't have the plugin, it won't view the images? Would be nice to see what happens when they are back up, see if there is a way. Would love it actually, then maybe be able to convince them that the plugin is not the way to go.

  • /. effect? not hardly :) (Score:3)

    by ShadowDragon ( 40886 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @01:55AM (#1126606) Homepage

    This stuff has been bouncing all night, long before /. posted it. try the "CNN effect" or the "Dan Rather" effect, or the "Yahoo effect".

    Actually, I believe it's the "Microsoft NT effect"

  • Re:Conspiracy??? (Score:3)

    by ShadowDragon ( 40886 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @02:26AM (#1126607) Homepage

    Microsoft has nothing to do with these pics, they happen to host some older free stuff of Aerial Images, but not the current ones, and don't have any say so or knowledge of what is on www.terraserver.com

  • meatloop:~>host area51.gov
    area51.gov does not exist (Authoritative answer)
  • Big X? Hell I'm suprised they didn't put up a big sign that said "Hi mom!" Duty on a base in the middle of the desert can't be all that entertaining. Or maybe the next passover will reveal some joker has put out a sign saying "Aliens land on left runway" or something.

    As for the whole Area 51 UFO thing... come on. My favorite video to debunk of the place is a picture of three or four lights in the sky do some really impressive moves. The person who filmed it said "It has to be using alien technology to protect the pilots from G-force and make moves like that." Why? Why can't they be remotely piloted drones? And the moves were something a vectored thrust engine could do (even seen one fly backwards). Why in the world would you put lights on a top secret aircraft that you're trying to hide? It is restriced airspace. No one to run into.

    Knew a guy who used to work at one of the air bases near Area 51 as a civilian security guard in the mid 80's. Said he was sitting in his truck one night way out in the middle of no where when a really big bat went screaming by... chased by a F-15. He was seeing what would eventually become the F-117 fighter. The Air Force didn't admit that it existed for another five years. A conspiracy is generally cracked open by this kind of thing. The government can't even hide a presidential blow job. How in the world would they hide something like a alien spaceship that would require many people to work on? (well as usually I've wondered off the topic I was replying to *shrug*)

  • I feel sorry for the people who admin the server. CNN and Slashdot both post your sight on the same day *shudder*. [bad Scottish accent] "She's going to blow Captain! CNN and Slashdot have both posted us!" [end bad Scottish accent]Someone is working some overtime tonight.

  • There is such a thing already. It's called radar and infrared.

  • Plus of course, after paying to download an image, I don't see any reason you couldn't simply e-mail it to someone else
    Why not just copy it throughout GnutellaNet, that way its nicely distributed to all that want it with no one server being /.ed? Come to think of it, why not email the sysadmins about doing this sort of thing _before_ a /. article is posted, that way they have a choice loose the server if it gets hammered or allow the info to be propagated via a distributed system like Gnutella, just my tuppence worth.

  • Groom Lake no longer used... (Score:4)

    by Rocky ( 56404 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @01:19AM (#1126613)
    I remember hearing somewhere that this facility was no longer being used for the nefarious purposes (fun stuff like the F117, test flights of stolen MiGs, new radar systems, alien cryogenic storage) that earned the place its reputation.

    There were even rumors that it was shut down because the level of radiation there was too intense.

    The functions of the Groom Lake facility were supposedly moved to secret bases in places like Utah and Colorado.

    Anybody heard anything? Or am I just watching the Discovery Channel waaaaaaaaay to much?

  • That server is being pounded into submission, either by /.ers or the US Military. The pictures cannot be viewed.

    Can someone mirror these pictures? And maybe use Photoshop to magnify the aliens working on the aircraft?

  • Do those satellites have sufficient resolution to locate any of the internet-famous, CAMO-DUDES?

    Mom, I want to be a kamo-dood when I grow up!
    Sorry, junior. You're the wrong species. When we get back to our planet, talk to your father.

  • ...they mentioned the site on NPR this morning, as well. I actually was going to go there before I saw that /. had the same story. Oh well. ;-)

    The Divine Creatrix in a Mortal Shell that stays Crunchy in Milk
  • yeah, i saw that too. too bad the writer of the story didn't. "There are no paved roads and no parking lots; buses are the only visible vehicles, raising the question of how employees get to and from work." it isn't a big secret that they fly in and out of there every day on unmarked jets.
  • it's telling to see that Mircosoft's showcase site for server reliability and scalability can be brought down by being /.ed
  • on the other hand if you make it that obvious, then nothing you do there could possibly be secret. and if everyone who's watching was easily dismissed at first hearing as a candidate for the local mental hospital, then it would be an ideal place to fly secret planes from
  • Slashdot effect? I doubt it..
    Its more likely a CNN effect.
  • Maybe they are able to keep the UFO conspiracy secret because they don't TELL the president. If they did tell him, he would spill the beans himself since it would serve to make him look better. "Look what those Republicans have been hiding from our children all these years! Shame on them!"
  • Nope. This is "TerraServer.Com" not the "terraserver.microsoft.com" (which works alot better, IMO)

    I suspect this is a two fold problem... first, the server is woefully inadequate -- and just plain pitiful in light of slashdot. Second, the hosting facility is (or at least was) laughable. [Don't get me started.]
  • ... or by improper clue:money ratio.
  • It's not so much the cost of the USGS imaging data -- anyone can buy it; Aerial isn't the only one buying it. It's the size of the data and the amount of processing necessary to convert it into a nice, juicy, high resolution image of alien road-kill at Area51.

    M$ just did this as a show piece to paint NT and MS SQL Server in the best light. Now you see what it looks like when you don't have 10,000 MS engineers tweaking the thing. (The Aerial server was setup by a non-MCSE, albeit good, NT admin. And as I recall him bitching, it was a pain in the ass to setup.)

    My problem is the requirement to use that damned plug-in. The javascript is supposed to send back a plain (gif) image if there is no supported plugin, but it doesn't work. Idiots.
    1. ... operating from Aerial Images' [] facility ...
    That's not "Aerial Images' facility"; it's hosted at Interpath's [interpath.net] network operation center [interpath.net] -- in "Server City" [interpath.net] [lame. Very lame.] I'm not sure if it was loaded on Compaq hardware (which is likely as Compaq is one of the sponsers) or IBM hardware.

    Most of the people with a clue left [nando.net] Interpath a few months ago. The CEO resigned [nando.net] (read: destroyer of worlds) and left two days before [nando.net] the mass exodus -- yeah right, a load of core employees leaving had nothing to do with it. [And then CP&L [cplc.com] pulled alot of the people it threw into Interpath back to CP&L [nando.net]. And just last week, they waved the IPO flag [nando.net] again.]
  • Did you bother looking at the configuration of that machine? 4.3M$, not available until 08/2000, 96 PIII/Xeon 550's... The other numbers are up-to-date either. The TPC results are mostly vendor posturing.
  • To quote Mr T, "I pity the fool." Between the mass exodus and the CP&L recall, there aren't many left to run the show (and they never had a very high clue execution rate.) God help the guy looking at the firewall logs.

    As for port-scans... yes and no. I'm sure terraserver was intensely targeted as it's an NT box. To Interpath's credit -- they aren't entirely idiots -- most of Server City is behind "a" firewall -- assuming they ever got all of the FORE ESX4800's to behave. [BTW, the ESX4800 is rumored to have NT inside it -- which explains a lot.]
  • Oh, it's noticable -- even to the board of directors -- assuming you have time to look up/around you. Some of those that stayed were offered a substantial bonus to stay.

    As you haven't given a name (I get three guesses, right? :-)) I don't know if you were around for whatever storm it was that proved Netscape + an SGI Challenge makes a bad web server (chris and I had both tweaked the holy hell out of that thing.) WRAL-TV [wral-tv.com] brought over one of the VA Research [valinux.com] boxes (my recommendation) and installed it. In the first 15 minutes, it served 300,000 pages using a 100% stock Redhat [redhat.com] installation. After proper configuration -- which I will refer to as "magic" -- it was serving 300,000 pages per minute. I had nothing to do with what they installed in Server City. [The only problems I know of for the stuff in S.C. was due to the network hardware not the web server hardware.]

    What "load"? It's been turned off or blocked all week.
  • [TLA overload] TBJ? And which gritty details would you like? (I will assume you know where to send me e-mail.)
  • Here are a few older satellite images of area 51.
    http://www.nauticom.net/users/ata/satellite.jpg http://www.nauticom.net/users/ata/satellite1.jpg http://www.nauticom.net/users/ata/satellite2.jpg
    If its too good to be true its probly GPL
  • Aha! I should have know fellow shashdotters would watch On the Inside...especially ones about Area 51....

    Anyway, yeah, I remember that.... They used to bring everybody in through buses and planes, blah, blah, blah...and I think it was toxic waste, not radiation. They still have the warning signs "Tresspassers will be shot" and the guards. They also have optical sensors that detect when somebody has gone into "Area 51". Too bad that they bought the one hill where you could actually get a good look at the base :( (the other is about 26 mi. away).

    Anyway, most people pretty much believe that things like the F-117 and F-22 were developed there (hence the "black shadows" and airplanes that could do things no others could do). I'd kinda like to think that the're keeping it guarded to conseal their new locations from investigation by the public. I mean, that is why they closed this one down....


    Grades, Social Life, Sleep....Pick Two.

  • Re:terraserver doesn't lend itself to mirroring (Score:3)

    by HBergeron ( 71031 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @03:29AM (#1126632)
    Straight from the horses mouth:

    All of the SPIN-2 data, plus several other datatypes, are now hosted on SPIN-2's new Web site www.terraserver.com. TerraServer started as a joint research project between Aerial Images, Inc., Microsoft, the USGS, and Compaq. The TerraServer concept grew out of the convergence of two needs: Aerial Images, Inc. wanted to sell imagery online and Microsoft Research needed a large database to demonstrate the capabilities of its new database software. Under the agreement, Microsoft built the TerraServer application and agreed to host the SPIN-2 data and run the site for eighteen months following the formal site initiation (June 24, 1998).

    TerraServer.com is taking the TerraServer concept and growing it into a true vertical portal for overhead imagery. Beginning in November of 1999, TerraServer.com began operating from Aerial Images' Research Triangle Park, North Carolina facility, hosting, displaying, and selling SPIN-2 imagery and adding more imagery from new providers (including ORBIMAGE and UK Perspectives). Concurrently, the Microsoft's TerraServer site continues to host USGS imagery. The Microsoft and Aerial Images sites are cross-linked, so searches on either site return identical results.

    Sounds like a bit of a bait and switch to me. And I was giving credit to MS for providing useful free information to the world. Must.... be..... more..... cynical....
  • Isn't Terraserver running on Microsoft "technology"?

    Yes, it was supposed to prove how scalable some component (which one exactly I can't remember.. SQL Server maybe) of Microsoft's technology is. Of course it never worked as advertised. When it was first announced it bombed, and now it has bombed again when Slashdot linked to it.

    I mean really.. putting a link to a server running Windows on Slashdot front page.. what were the editors thinking??! Did they perhaps think the "technology" would be able to take the strain? Geesh...

  • Are you saying that providing the USGS information for free isn't a useful service for MS to be doing? Without the MS site, there would be no free information. Just because MS didn't get an unlimited license to show very expensive SPIN-2 information forever doesn't mean it's "bait and switch". I think you misunderstand the meaning of that term.
  • A U.S. company's move to post Russian spy satellite photos of ``Area 51'', the mysterious U.S. Air Force test site in Nevada, on the Internet prompted a Web meltdown on Tuesday as UFO buffs jammed its computers looking for insights into one of the world's most enduring real life X-Files.

    Full Reuters story [yahoo.com]

    --

  • I've heard Alaska.. Think about it..
  • Solaris and JPG's!!!

    A good plan. :-)

    then they'd lose their ability to make money from the pics...

    Not at all. They could (and should) provide a high resolution to buy for download (as well as selling photos/posters), and a smaller version for standard web browsing.

    I'm afraid they've already lost the ability to make money from the pics, if you contend that unprotected content cannot be charged for. I haven't tried their plugin thing yet because the site is still down, but regardless of what nasty hacks it may do to try to stop screen grabbers working, any image that makes its way to the screen can be intercepted at some point. I shall be glad to have a go, should the site come up at some point, and if the plug-in works at all through my firewall.

    Plus of course, after paying to download an image, I don't see any reason you couldn't simply e-mail it to someone else.

    I really don't think they're onto a winner here. Their copy protection will lose them customers, like rwade. If a plugin has to be installed, then whoops they've just lost the great majority of office workers, who don't have admin privs. You know, for some reason, consumers don't actually like being inconvenienced for no other reason than a company's lack of trust.


    --
    This comment was brought to you by And Clover.
  • I have stopped using both terraservers because microsoft terraserver doesn't have any good images, and the regular terra server uses a deathly slow plugin

    Gagh. How long until companies get the message? Copy protection always inconveniences the legitimate customer (like you), and does nothing to stop anyone dedicated to making a copy. In this case, with a screen capture application. For example.

    Sorry to be off-topic, but this kind of crap really annoys me, and it's difficult to discuss the pics themselves when none of us can see them. Maybe if they just used a normal web server with JPEG files on it, it would be able to stand up better. Bah.

    terraserver.microsoft.com seems to be creaking now as well. Mind you, having a 140K animated GIF at the top of each page probably wasn't a massively great design strategy...


    --
    This comment was brought to you by And Clover.

  • SQL Server Backend probably running on Win2K!!!

    Oh well, it's never been quick.


    Um, yeah, forget the fact Windows 2000 holds the TPC crown.

    TPC Performance Results [tpc.org]

  • I know it's been said before, but the thing about aliens is, well, they're alien. The thing with such predictions like the Drake equation is that they are biased to towards Earth-type life ie. planet based. If on the other hand you can assume that life is possible in any number of alternative configurations, with the only real criterion being a minimum level of complexity, then you allow for life to exist in all kinds of bizarre forms.

    I can't remember the name, but one of the short stories in Stephen Baxter's book Vacuum Diagrams is about a life form that arises out of mathematical logic trees creating using quantum effects - truly strange and well worth a read if you're into hard SF.

  • Heh - the best Area 51 stuff is the trio of books by Robert Doherty. He manages to pull together just around every "unsolved mystery" into one plotline. :-) Great light (as in helium) reading if you're on a transcontinental flight and the only onboard movie is "The Avengers" with Uma Thurman (who's contact with the original TV show had to have been 3rd hand at best).

    However, with the demise of Area 51, the BIG question is --- what will become of the Ale-i Inn? (I know I'm getting the name wrong.)

  • Here are some of my oberservations (gleened from my inability to actually view the images thanks to the Slashdot effect):

    1. Objects in the images are closer to the ground than the satellite.

    2. Some top secret projects are actually conducted indoors.

    3. The remaining top secret projects actually are *cleverly* hidden in plain sight (or is that 'plane site'.)

    There you have it. Conspiracy perpetuated.

    --
  • Yeah, I heard CNN was going to have an interview with the Smoking Man next about why the Terraserver is not responding....
  • Sense the site seems to have been /.ed, I grabbed what I could and put up a mirror of one of the images. I've got a measly ADSL connection, so it'll soon be saturated, too, but enjoy the picture I was able to get...

    www.apo49.org/area51/area.jpg [apo49.org]

    ;-P

  • In the past, the Groom Lake area has been used to test all the Lockheed Skunk Works [skunkworks.net] aircraft. The U-2, the SR-71, and various stealth aircraft were first flown there. The Skunk Works is still active, so presumably they're building something interesting. [skunkworks.net]
  • Actually, the old microsoft terraserver [microsoft.com] used java but now these Aerial Images fellas [terraserver.com] restricted all their images and took most of their images off of the the microsoft terraserver, so now, on terraserver.com, they have this _very_ slow plug-in that you are forced to use. I have stopped using both terraservers because microsoft terraserver doesn't have any good images, and the regular terra server uses a deathly slow plugin, probably to keep people from saving the images for mirroring or printing them as usa today did.

  • Conspiracy theory (Score:3)

    by kwsNI ( 133721 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @12:55AM (#1126678) Homepage
    It looks like the Slashdot Geek Compound to me. I always thought CowboyNeal looked a little like an alien (and not a Cuban alien).

    kwsNI
  • Yup. Then there's the fact that they've had cloaking technology for a considerable amount of time, so their planes aren't visible to most satelites.
  • Funny, doesn't show up on terraserver.microsoft.com. Maybe terraserver.microsoft.com != terraserver.com.

    I just get what looks like an image of a political map with the words "Groom Lake Test Site"
    http:// terraserver.microsoft.com/image.asp?S=12&T=2&X=758 &Y=5157&Z=11&W=2 [microsoft.com]
  • doesn't seem to be working, hmm.. the NSA is getting quicker..

    The Unfettered Mind: Takuan Sôhô - ISBN: 0-87011-851-X
    My contact details [wiretrap.net]
  • That's what I saw too. I remember watching a special on Area 51 a year ago and from the evidence they presented and some common sence indicates that there is not much of anything going on there. the show said there use to be flights going in and out each morning and evening, which took workers in and out of the base, but they have either stopped or decreased in frequency which indicates less work being done. And a little common sense tells us that once a 'Secret Base' has become as famous as Area 51, after all there's an arcade game named after it, then it's time to find a new place to do the secret stuff. I believe it is no longer used much. that would also explain the why the goverment cleared the sattelite images for posting on the internet. Also, with the cold war over it is not needed as much.

  • Trust no one. (Score:4)

    by Jasonv ( 156958 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @08:49AM (#1126698)
    Mulder: Does it strike you as odd, Scully, that no one is able to access the actual pictures of Area 51 now that they've been released on the Internet?

    Scully: Not really Mulder. This sort of thing has been known to happen before.

    Mulder: Exactly. You remember the Ken Starr report when it was released to the Internet? No one could get at it. I believe this was a test-run, an experiment if you will, incase anything did get released on the internet that would jepordize the conspircy!

    Scully: Oh really Mulder. It's a known fact that sites brought to sudden popularity by mainstream media are suddenly besieged by hits from people that are...

    Mulder: It's called "The Slashdot Effect"..

    Scully: Yeah.. Whatever.. But, you can't seriously belive this is some sort of coverup?

    Mulder: Does it not seem odd that not moments after going online noone can access the site? Doesn't it also seem strange that terraserver.com and terraserver.microsoft.com are so closely related? A company sponsored by the richest company in the world doesn't have the means to keep it's servers online? There are countries that can have networks that can transmit at 20 terrabits [slashdot.org] per second, and companies have tested fiber optics that can relay trillions of bits of data over 100s of kilometers in a second [slashdot.org] and with all of this technology no one can get to one simple web page?! Why do you think that is?!

    Scully: Because millons of teenagers spend all day online downloading porn, MP3s and pirated software.. ?

    Mulder: No.. It's much more than anyone has ever suspected. A massive consipracy involving the American goverment and major companies around the world have devised a system of manipulating datastreams to completly jam information on the internet that may uncover the truth!

    Scully: And who's behind it? Huh? Bill Gates?

    Mulder: Of course! That's it! Why else would the a man with billions of dollars still not be able to get a decent haircut? Wait here Scully! I've got to go!

    Scully: Mulder! Mulder, wait! Where are you going Mulder.....???

  • http://www.fas.org/irp/overhead/groom.htm This site apparently is doing a side by side comparison of the photos of area 51 from the USGS, Aerial Images and soon IKONOS. I got the link from ZDNET: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2551 676,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01
  • How come every time I re-try terraserver.com a black helicopter flies by my window?

  • Well it confirms it (Score:4)

    by |Soc| ( 173855 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @12:59AM (#1126710)
    Yes its true. We have all found out Area 51 is acutally not housing UFO's. They are hiding. you ready? they are hiding tarps These tarps are wanted by serveral different countries and they US is simply helping out. They acutalyl have the knowlegde of serveral thousand other tarps of the same species. These tarps may the link to out past and to our future.God save the tarps.
  • ..and also..I can imagine Area51 is just a cover....Do you actually think the government would do alien/ufo testing in a base that is now so well-known by the public?

  • Re:Wow how exciting (Score:3)

    by sellis ( 176158 ) on Tuesday April 18, 2000 @01:33AM (#1126714) Homepage

    Aha. Notice how we see absolutely nothing suspicious in these images. Not one iota of evidence for aliens, top secret underground research labs, nothing.

    See how much EFFORT they will expend to cover up the truth SO WELL that there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE! Proof!

    Ahem. Sorry. We now return you to your normal programming.

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