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Space Science

Space is Silent but Space Habitats are too Noisy 16

Posted by Roblimo from the they'd-never-hear-you-scream-over-the-fan-noise dept.
cmuncey writes "This ABCNEWS.com story by Lee Dye brings up a problem I never knew about - noise in space vehicles. In all the SF movies you get vast silent space, (broken perhaps by John Williams music, or the sound of the wookie winning at chess) but the reality is noisier, and sometimes prevents communication, work, and sleep. Both of the Russian built modules for the International Space Station are noisier than NASA safety guidelines allow (like a noisy city street) and there have been reports of permanent hearing damage on Mir. The article explains why, and what can be done about it. "
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Space is Silent but Space Habitats are too Noisy More

Space is Silent but Space Habitats are too Noisy

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  • The problem (with some exceptions) isn't lack of interest. Its all takeoff weight. Water is *really* heavy. Plastic isn't, but the amount of water you'd need for the right amount of shielding would be *mundo* expensive. All for what? A space habitat? Now, granted, it would be nice, but that would be really freaking expensive.

    We can't really attempt anything in space that requires a large amount of weight, until we get into asteroid mining. All the water, ore, etc. that we need.

    Other plans, such as Robert Zubrin's "Mars Direct" plan, which proposes in-situ production of return fuel from mars' atmosphere is an example of accomplishing a large-scale mission without thinking large scale. But, if you specify using water...ouch!

    Don't get me wrong...I wanna experience space travel...I want to go to Mars...but thinking in conventional terms with conventional means of getting human-made items into space just won't work.
  • "...fans and ventilators will still send vibrations through the metal of the space station."
    And that vibration will set the air in motion (if there's no air in the room where you're trying to sleep, noise and vibration aren't your biggest problem). This will produce sound that will work it's way through the cancellation system to come back as out of phase vibrations in the air which will hit the metal and vibrate it, cancelling out (quite possibly imperfectly)the original metal-borne vibrations.
    In an airless environment, this same method (phase-flipped, i.e., inverse, feedback)could be used with transducers attached directly to the structure of the station, some to sense vibration, others to be driven (just like loudspeakers)by the vibration-cancellation system.

    Perhaps a lot more stories should be slashbox only, with decoys posted on the main page to keep the trolls distracted from the good stuff. What a pity the moderators are too busy stomping trolls and fighting flames to give my posts the extra points they so richly deserve :)

  • Sound is vibration, or rather vibrations that are air-coupled to your ear (or microphone) are sounds. So if you have a "phase flip the sound 180 degrees and play it back" system it should go a long way towards damping the vibrations as well. Unfortunately, one general system for the living area would tend to make conversations difficult if not impossible.

    Was this story ever posted on Slashdot's main page?

  • It needs to start researching and doing civil engineering in space -- making new land and cities in space.

    It's not for lack of interest. Congress hasn't allowed NASA to think that big for over 30 years. Every time a NASA center comes up with a project that could lead the way to opening up space to large scale anything it very quickly finds it's funding slacking off...

    Look at what happened just recently to TransHab. Finally a chance to prove that inflatable space structures can really work. They've been theorized and studied since the 50s. But once again a few congressmen inserted language in last years NASA budget to deny all funding for the project.

    Our congress simply doesn't want to open up space. They fear it will just suck up their budget (which they would much rather spend on their personal constituencies)...

  • Sound is vibration, or rather vibrations that are air-coupled to your ear (or microphone) are sounds.

    Right, I should have clarified.

    I meant that even with active sound cancellation, fans and ventilators will still send vibrations through the metal of the space station.

    Was this story ever posted on Slashdot's main page?

    Let's see, no grits, no trolls, no ninja posts, not a single natalie
    just eleven on-topics posts, here on taco's island

    Nope, it never made, which is neat, it keeps hte level of discourse a little higher.

    George
  • Some of these problems sound (sorry) like they can be remedied by using active sound suppression, get a microphone that records the sound, have a chip invert the sound and play it back through a speaker in real time, the sound waves cancel each other out.

    There's still the vibration, though.

    George
  • thats why seti@home dont find anyting
    Mir is too noisy
  • I bet there are people out there fit and willing to be astronaughts who can deal with the noise. The best thing is to find these people... they can stay in space for now. Surely, whatever the people would cost is far less than changing the envinronment...
  • Life in a tin can will almost always be noisy. But space habitats don't have to be tin cans.

    For example, consider the bubble designs by Michael Savage, consisting of a large air filled bubble, a layer of plastic, six feet of water (for cosmic ray shielding) and another layer of plastic (gold coated to control glare).
    http://www.luf.org/bin/vie w/GIG/GalacticInformationGuide [luf.org]
    http://www.luf.org/ [luf.org]

    Or consider the huge O'Neill habitats.
    http://www.ssi.org/space_art.html [ssi.org]

    Sometimes, you just need to so something on a big enough scale.
    http://www.imax.com/films/distributi on/L5.html [imax.com]

    NASA needs to get over its fascination on building tin can space ships to go to planets (and tin can space stations to support that). It needs to start researching and doing civil engineering in space -- making new land and cities in space.
    http://www.spaceandrobotics.org/debate.h tm [spaceandrobotics.org]

    At least some people at NASA get it:
    http://near.jhuapl.edu/ [jhuapl.edu]

  • Have you tried one of these active cancellation headsets at Sharper Image? It does make ambient noise quieter, but you can still feel a sort of pressure on your ears. Like when you have a head cold and know you should be hearing better than you are. It gives you the sensation you should yawn or something to clear the tubes. Even just trying them out in the store, I can't keep them on for too long. It's way too annoying.
  • I sympathize. My box sounds like a freakin' microwave when it's running, and I can't leave it on all night anymore b/c it wakes me up. Surprisingly little noise, if it's constant, can blow that good night's sleep right out the window.
  • I know that, especially since my head is 2 meters away from a noisy box (which I can't replace right now due to lack of bucks...). It helps to use styropore (sp, I know, it's the plastic you find in boxes to absorbe shocks). That's a perfect absorber. Also, if the noise does not change (no spin/downs /ups of HDDs) I can live with it. Put a CD in, let it fade out over 30 minutes, and you have a perfect sleep. That's what I sometimes do.

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