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Science

Chemists Build an Explosive Super-Molecule 235

Posted by Roblimo from the things-that-go-boom dept.
Lockle writes "A new super explosive has been invented at the University of Chicago. It's based on an existing explosive molecule called "Cubane" but it has oxygen and nitrogen bonded to it for a bigger boom. It's called Octanitrocubane. The news release can be found at Angewandte Chemie International Edition which is a German chemistry magazine (page is in English). More detailed info about Cubane, Octanitrocubane's predecessor, can be found at a site devoted to it."
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Chemists Build an Explosive Super-Molecule More

Chemists Build an Explosive Super-Molecule

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  • give me some beans, and lighter, and i'll top that.
  • The ONCe-fired, ONCe-killed gun!

  • cubane.com: taken (Score:3)

    by Evro ( 18923 ) <evandhoffman@@@gmail...com> on Sunday January 23, 2000 @05:11PM (#1344744) Homepage Journal
    Boy, them domain squatters sure act quick... s ee for yourself [networksolutions.com].

    ...In their defense, they may actually have a use for cubane.com.

    ______________________________________
    um, sigs should be heard and not seen?

  • Just wait until the media gets ahold of this and declares the chemists who created it "irresponsible". Wait until the FBI goes and busts down their lab door looking for "leftist radicals". Oh yes, it could happen.

    I love it - "super-explosive". Yeah... since when did exothermic reactions get to be more potent than nuclear explosives? Just wait... once it hits the cover of Wired and the NY Times it'll be potent enough to destroy entire *cities* with just a few drops of this stuff (Fact checking, what's that?). Mark my words - this'll get blown out of proportion (pun intended) by the media.

  • extortion...far, far away. (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 23, 2000 @05:17PM (#1344751)
    "The might Jabba asks why he must pay fifty thousand."

    "Yotto, yotto."

    "Because he's holding a molecule of Octanitrocubane!!"

    "Eee cabbo nawoooshka da babble e foto Shta Treck"

    "Oh, the might Jabba says that Octanitrocubane sounds like silly techno-babble and suggests you go back to Star Trek."

  • Why ? They could just as well run the story as a new step towards a more environmental friendly chemistry. We fucked up with coredumps of any poisoneous leftovers into every river and forest available, if we can reverse the damage by packing the same amount of energy in less fuel to burn, it's cool. Check out my 500 miles drive with 4 gallons of fuel, woohoo :) Depends on what the media thinks will sell, I guess.. as usual.
  • Yeah, but you make the choice: "environmentally friendly fuel discovered" or "New explosive used by college kids". Hmmm, I wonder..... :\
  • Become a Microsoft Certified Professional. If you're a computer professional - or want to be one - it's the best way to show employers, clients and colleagues that you have the knowledge and skills required

    (1) ... to install expensive bloatware that will reduce their productivity while forcing them to purchase new hardware to run larger tied and bundled applications with the same functionality as the previous versions...

    (2) ... to take nearly a decade to catch on to the fact that Microsoft has a monopoly on PC OS systems and that maybe getting certified would catch you some of their trickle-down dollars.

    (3) ... to download pr0n and ju4r3z over their fat pipe oblivious to the fact that the non-MS network gear is logging your illicit and illegal behavior

    (4) ... to read a "dummies" guide to certification to pay to be tested on IT common sense.

    Where do I sign up again?

  • The science behind Octanitrocubane is actually almost fourty years old. A Swiss/German chemist by the name of Fritz Veinluhg published a paper outlining the basic structures in 1958, as part of an alternate hydrofusion technology proposal. It was also expected that these advances would lead to weapons uses, but a lack of funding and governmental support, not to mention overshadowing research being performed in the US, seemed to doom Veinluhg's work. However there was a surge of interest in the man after his death in 1986. It's good to actually see something come of it, and hopefully Veinluhg will be remembered for his fresh outlook on molecular science.

  • What would REALLY be powerful (Score:3)

    by DonkPunch ( 30957 ) on Sunday January 23, 2000 @05:24PM (#1344762) Homepage Journal
    ...would be a Beowulf cluster of these molecules! Wow!

    ("Bring it on. I don't care. I've got karma points to spare.")
  • If you read the article, it sais that the explosive is not as dense and therefore not as powerfull as it was expected to be. At least in its present form... Personally I am quite happy with that, because this means that there is still no cooking recipe for yet another explosive. On the other hand I hope they fix the theory for science sake.

    For the Dutch people, there is a piece about it in the Volkskrant Wetenschap sectie.

  • The article does not say that it has a "bigger boom" as the slashdot headline implies. It says it could be, but says the crystalline form does not have the density they predicted. Researchers are still looking for the denser version.
  • You mean slashdot has a science/math story that isn't related to patents? No way! Someone tell this guy he's missing the boat....
  • This really beats the hell out of all the legal shit we've been seeing here for the past while. It also tops any of the vast number of IPO stuff we've seen in the past while too.

    As per usual, I say fuck the ACs too chicken shit to at least make up a pseudo-name to flame with. Good job Roblimo.
  • I care!

    Sometimes there are articles that I don't care about on Slashdot. Sometimes there are articles I -do- care about. Its important to understand that we don't all have the exact same interests. I think the Slashdot crew has a terrific set of categories that they post about, and if there is one category you don't like, its very easy to filter that topic out.

    So, go do that if you don't like Science things :> For those of us who do like them, we'll read the articles.

    So, quit with the negative attitude. If you don't like Slashdot, leave :> I think a lot of people are pleased with Slashdot (like me!).

    Oh well. :> I bit :>

  • I wonder how this will effect the space program. If it can be mass-produced then the aerostar project might be that much closer to completion

  • Chemistry for COMMUNISTS! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Robin, you've done it again!

    First, the red cars!
    Now, the "Cubane" molecule.

    Don't you see, people! Cubane = CUBAN!

    And what are Cubans? COMMUNISTS!

    Because of the recent advances of our Socialist Revolution into the so-called 'hard' (as opposed to 'soft' sciences, such as Marxism, Leninism, Statism), we will soon possess the super-explosives to out the evil Capitalist fat cat industrial leaders, like the king of the Randite batards himself, President KKKlinton, after which the wheels of industry will be halted, and the workers will once again assume control of production!

    COMRADES! We must seize the oppurtunity that Comrade Miller has afforded us! Death to capitalism! We shall be free!
  • I apologize for responding to such a flame, as it is out of character for myself but... why? This has nothing to do with the topic and maybe it should have been filed somewhere else. I understand the difficulties and annoyances of being prodded about projects when you are busy elsewhere and I feel you pain but one of the best things about slashdot is that you can avoid these kinds of messages, but starting another thread about it is like putting up a neon sign saying I feel like forcing people to scroll through spam!.

    The hand, though well constructed(:-)) is a very crude touch and I find it insulting both to my sensibilty and to my trust in Slashdot to avoid this kind of sh-t. I have to say this was one of the weaker moments in Slash's history.

    Respectfully, mmt

    P.S. All you "Anonymous Cowards"... have some respect for Rob and at least sign you responses!

    ---

  • hey, now, wait, make this clear to this very dumb slashdotter: do you think the message in question is actually an official /. press release? Don't you give Cmdr Taco Bell a credit?

  • Re:cubane.com: taken (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    In my new socialist system access to domain names will be free, but subjected to a vote by the community. All server software will run my socialist operating system, Socialix, and it will be licensed under the SPL(Socialist Public License) which will be based on the socialist GPL. In our never ending battle to eliminate the forces of capitalism the National Socialists of America have authorized $1,000,000 for funding of this new program. The socialix OS will be based on the GNU Hurd because of its communtiy oriented design. If you want to help please send us unmarked rolls of U.S. currency, any denomination will be appreciated. (BTW I won't get moderated down because all the moderators moderate wthin the first 50 posts so there's no chance of a good comment getting moderated up or my ontopic insightful comment getting moderated down)
  • ...In their defense, they may actually have a use for cubane.com.

    ...but not necessarily one related to cubane, unless they're trying to imply that their software has truly explosive power - the domain is taken by "Cubane Software" [networksolutions.com] (but they don't have a Web site at www.cubane.com yet).

  • It might be interesting to note that the cubane site listed in the piece also indicated pharmaceutical uses for some cubane compounds (one can potentially inhibit HIV, another could be used in cancer treatment). I would encourage further research on that basis alone.

    Much like anything, it's not inherently good or evil, it only becomes one or the other in the way that it is used.
  • I notice that "Cubane" sounds a helluva lot like
    "Cobain". Listening to an R.E.M. song:
    blame, blame, blame"You came to bang, bang, bang, bang, and bang,"
    You bang, bang, bang, bang, and bang,
    It's not my thing so let it go."
    And that song's supposed to be a tribute to Kurt.
    Coincidence? I think not.
    (Aw, PHUQ! A black helicopter just landed in my
    cornpatch... EOF)
  • Sorry if I come off as sounding stupid, what I was trying to say is that it was very off topic.

    ---
  • Explosive power doubles every 133 years?
  • I can just see it now, the "Cuban Cubane Crisis".
  • Pray tell, what connection topology would you use for your Beowulf? A hypercubane?
  • "American"? What's that?

    Ah - You mean Spanish, right?
  • I have to admit that it is ironic that you are complaining about domain squatters... while you also managed to post message #13 after doing a checkup on netsol.com.

    Especially since you did a registeration check and not a WHOIS... it seems that you are a squatter yourself!

    Or not... =) I like to play Sherlock Holmes.
  • Hello, caller 100! Notice that I replied to your message before you posted it. To see how this happened and more magic, see this page [slashdot.org].

    Where is my mind?
  • c
    / \
    c---c

    Those 60-DEGREEbonds have got to be extremely unstable, maybe more than cubane's. And if you can stick 2 on top of each other... hoo boy...

    Dunno if this would actually hold together, though.

  • Are the posters of slashdot becoming foolish, or what? Blow up your ass? Why do you want to do that? Oh, wait...I forget I am a fool...
  • ...the first practical antimatter explosives.

    You know it's only a matter of time. Imagine it, perfect control over explosive power from strategic nuke to radioactive firecracker that can be hidden in your pocket (okay, maybe not, I guess the containment hardware will probably start out around the size of a house; but eventually... ).

    That will really change the world. Who cares about wimpy chemical explosives?
  • Huh? It's quite official. It's from the interview [slashdot.org] on January 6th of this year.
  • This stuff is bound to get some negative publicity...people think of explosives, and of course weaponry is one of the first things that comes to mind. Terrorist bombings are always eaten up and blown out of proportion (haha, punny) by the news, and the general public gets paranoid about anything that they don't understand...it's not as if this stuff is going to be freely available at drug stores.

    It would probably be better if some stuff never made it to big news, and this is probably one of those things.
  • A new chemical?

    Robin: Who the FUCK cares?
    I really want to know.

    Many /. readers happen to be of much higher intelligence than this idiot. We happen to enjoy the nerdy science articles. We haven't been seeing Einstein's glorious head enough lately. Good work Rob...

    --

  • It's rare for a site to tell me I actually need a plug in. It's even more unusual for me to be impressed by one, but that thing is slick.

    The compound itself? Ah who cares. But Chime [mdli.com] impressed me though.

    -----
    Want to reply? Don't know HTML? No problem. [virtualsurreality.com]

  • It's good to see the MIC is still funding top notch Death and Destruction research. It would be a real shame to see progress come to a grinding halt with regard to clever new ways to blow things/people/fleshy-headed-mutants into smaller bits.

    Maybe I'm just being cynical and this research is actually competing with fuel cells for the right to power your Crusoe in 3 to 5 years.
  • Noo, that didn't work. Sorry. But go to the page anyway. That did work, and it's muy interesante.

    Where is my mind?
  • Hey, it did work! You just have to look at it the right way...

    Where is my mind?

  • Octanitrocubane vs CL-20 (Score:5)

    by Freshman ( 9729 ) on Sunday January 23, 2000 @06:30PM (#1344825) Homepage
    Although Octanitrocubane is 30% more powerful than HMX (high explosive used in detonating nuclear implosion devices), scientists can only make enough to emulate a string of Black Cat firecrackers.

    As evident from this [brtrc.com] page and several other sources:

    Polynitrocubances are still at the molecule level of development at this time and it is not expected that multigram quantities will be available anytime in the immediate future.


    So for now, we are only seeing a few molecules at a time. However, 50 pounds of CL-20, which is about 20% more powerful than HMX, has been produced, and the government appears to have just finished the testing of warheads with CL-20.

    About.com has links and information:

    HMX and RDX [about.com]

    Another resource:

    Cub ane Applications [ic.ac.uk]

  • Go to this page [slashdot.org].

    Where is my mind?
  • I agree. Yet people still have a hard time fathoming the power of a nuclear weapon, finding something to compare it to.

    Antimatter would be even harder to comprehend to someone who hasn't read up on it. 100% conversion from mass to energy is not something to pass by.

  • Hey, I replied to your post before you made it! To put this trick to a useful task, see my "homepage."

    And please don't let #150 be another AC!

    Where is my mind?
  • Trust me, it was a *relief* to have something submitted that wasn't about patents or lawsuits.

    - Robin
  • It's a matter of a lot of time. Remember the interview with Dr. Lederman a few weeks ago?
    Fermilab is probably the most prolific source of antimatter right now. We have a machine that makes hot and cold running anti-matter and if that machine were made one hundred times more efficient, we made 100x as many anti-protons as we do now, then it would take a at least a few thousand years to make a milligram of anti-matter. We shouldn't hold our breath. No one can predict some huge breakthrough on how to make more antimatter more rapidly and so on, but it doesn't look very promising as a thing to look into. I wouldn't recommend an all out crash program.

    Photon torpedos are quite a while in the future. And besides, because of coservation of energy, you have to put in all of the energy that you want to get back out.

    This makes me wonder how expensive these things are to make. IANACE (I'm not a chemical engineer), but I'm pretty sure that the higher energy something is, the harder is it to make (since equilibrium is not in it's favor). Looking at the structure, it's no wonder that the thing is so unstable - the bonds that are supposed to be tetrahedral (~109 degress) are bent inward to 90 degrees, which increases the energy stored in it, but also the amount of energy that you have to put into it.

    -ElJefe

  • Hehe, it seems that the Omega Particle from Star Trek is getting closer to being a reality. :)
  • It is easy for you to say. Do you know how many people will die from his research work? How more territorists will be able to produce more powerful bombs, and blow up buildings in America? Fritz Veinluhg, like Albert Einstein, will be remembered for their contributions to the murders of innocent people... Oh, wait, I forget I am a fool...

  • I WANT TO SEE SOME PICTURES OF THIS BABY IN ACTION!!!!

    ME WANT BOOM!!!
  • Actually..
    IF we get room-temperature superconductors..
    Such a containment beast COULD be feasable..

    (I think.)

    In any case, what I want to see is those room-temperature superconductors.

    (Imagine the stuff we could build with that!)
  • Considering the large number of Linux users here, it is extremely unfair to post links to pages that cause pop-ups for a plug-in that is not available for Linux.

    Thanks,
    Ben

  • Re:Oh goody! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    (1) Line the inside wall of your Linux PC case with Nifty New Explosive (tm).

    (2) Glue strip of sandpaper to top side edge of PC frame.

    (3) Tell idiot cow-orkers to stay the hell away from your machine.

    (4) Go to lunch.

    (5) Listen to news on radio while you eat.

  • I confess, i made it up!! Bwahaha! (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 23, 2000 @06:55PM (#1344854)
    I faked the whole thing. Look, everyone, the original post and most of the replies are from the same half-hour. And get Rob to check the logs -- they're all from the same IP address. If you have any more doubts, try translating the German sentences. Most of them say things like "Suck me, your mother is a prostitute." Also, the links provided go to porno sites. Yes, I faked the whole thing. And now, at 11:52pm EST, I have a moderation of 5, Interesting! And it's all bullshit!

    I did this to prove a point -- Slashdot moderators are complete morons that don't even bother to read before they moderate. I used the phrase "alternate hydrofusion techonology". Anyone who knows anything about the field will tell you that means ABSOLUTELY nothing! Veinluhg never existd, and Veinluhg isn't even a real name.

    This is the most hilarious thing EVER! See, I am the Chide Molesta of Slashdot past, and I've found an even better way to kill the Karma whores. I have wasted 5 karma points getting moderated up, and you'll have to waste another 6 to get me below the default threshhold.

    Please send fanmail to chide_molesta@hotmail.com [mailto]. Slashdot moderators suck, and now I can prove that they're complete dumbasses! Fuck you all!

  • Re:What about cyclopropane? (Score:5)

    by enmity. ( 124175 ) on Sunday January 23, 2000 @07:09PM (#1344862)
    Cyclopropene, C3H4, has an even higher degree of ring strain resulting from a C=C double bond, but ring strain really only dictates how unstable the compound is, not necessarily how explosive. There is extreme ring strain in both compounds, but neither cyclopropane's 3 C-C bonds and 6 C-H bonds nor cyclopropene's 2 C-C bonds, 1 C=C bond, and 4 C-H bonds don't hold nearly as much energy per molecule to outdo the energy released by breaking the 12 C-C bonds and 8 C-H bonds in cubane. Using a table of bond enthalpies, we can find out how much energy is contained within a mole of each substance:

    cyclopropane: 3522 kJ/mol
    cyclopropene: 2963 kJ/mol
    cubane: 7480 kJ/mol

    So cyclopropene is most likely to spontaneously blow up, but releases the least amount of energy per mole; cubane (with bond angles of 90 degrees everywhere) is the most stable of the three but also releases the most energy.

    Keep in mind that some of the energy released is used up in forming the products of the reaction, so the values above do not represent the net energy; I'm just too lazy to track down the equations and calculate the delta-H.

    enmity.
  • foolish, yeah, I am. But... I'm so tired of attempting to post intelligent content when I have nothing to offer. The majority of articles I've read on Slashdot recently center around political and moral discussion and arguments, which I could care less about. Plus, I ate a bunch of chocolate cake, and got all rowdy, and nobody was around, so I figured I'd post to slashdot... what a sorry life I lead.
  • Yeah, but it is P. Eaton (principal investigator of the Chicago group) that got credit in 1964 for synthesizing cubane. Don't know whether Eaton had cited Veinluhg, though.
    --Posting Nonanonymously
  • You can't really use explosives to fuel your car, for example -- you need a controlled release of energy. Too much energy in too short of time in too small of a space (exploding dynamite in an IC engine cylinder) is a Bad Thing. Maybe in the future, with super-strong materials, now...

    --------------------

  • Well. actually I use a Mac. But I do know about whois.


    [tahoe:~] 104) whois -h whois.networksolutions.com cubane.com

    The Data in Network Solutions' WHOIS database is provided by Network
    Solutions for information purposes, and to assist persons in obtaining
    information about or related to a domain name registration record.
    Network Solutions does not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a
    WHOIS query, you agree that you will use this Data only for lawful
    purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this Data to:
    (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass
    unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail
    (spam); or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes
    that apply to Network Solutions (or its systems). Network Solutions
    reserves the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting
    this query, you agree to abide by this policy.

    Registrant:
    Cubane Software (CUBANE-DOM)
    6129B Baker St.
    Oakland, CA 94608-1312
    US

    Domain Name: CUBANE.COM

    Administrative Contact:
    Mikes, Samuel (SM26030) smikes@ALUMNI.HMC.EDU
    (510) 594-8661
    Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
    Support, Technical (MC4774) contact@AHNET.NET
    310-354-2626 (FAX) 310-354-1592
    Billing Contact:
    Mikes, Samuel (SM26030) smikes@ALUMNI.HMC.EDU
    (510) 594-8661

    Record last updated on 29-Oct-1999.
    Record created on 29-Oct-1999.
    Database last updated on 23-Jan-2000 14:54:05 EST.

    Domain servers in listed order:

    NSAH1.AHNET.NET 207.213.224.16
    NS3.PBI.NET 206.13.28.165

    [tahoe:~] 105)


    And since the record is at least as old as October 29th, I guess they're not squatting (unless they knew about Cubane way back then...).

    ______________________________________
    um, sigs should be heard and not seen?

  • Containment is a major problem, as is producing sufficiently dense and stable antimatter (anti-hydrogen just ain't gonna cut it if you want to safely carry the equivalent of a strategic nuke in your pocket).
  • Eistein did NOT build the A-bomb, he was not part of the Manhattan Project. He layed some of the ground work (very fundamental, and important, but not direct), and recommended to the President that we start such a project; that is just about as far as you can take it. He also, later, was an outspoken critic of the program, and future programs (e.g., H-bomb).

    Nevermind the politics of using the A-bomb, and the justification...
  • If you watch enough star trek you would know that antimatter is the byproduct of certain industrial processes. It was a pollutant but also a good source of energy so they usd it to power things.
  • Looks good dumbass. Next time try the tag. Dumbfuck.
  • here's a start:
    Compound Heat of formation per CH2(kcal/mol)
    ----------------------------------------------
    cyclobutane 1.65
    cyclopropane 4.25
    cycloethane 6.25
    (aka ethylene)

    BTW, cyclopropene is relatively stable as a cation (is aromatic!).

  • Re:It is easy for you to say... (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 23, 2000 @07:52PM (#1344883)
    Oh, wait, I forget I am a fool...

    Damned straight.

    The March 1945 firebombing of Tokyo actually killed more people than either use of the atomic bomb, plus it left more people maimed, more people injured, and more people homeless. The only things the atomic bombs did over conventional firebombing was concentrate enough shock value to end the war a few months early with probably fewer lives lost in total.

    And the threat of nuclear holocaust made war between the U.S. and USSR sufficiently unthinkable that there wasn't a Third World War fought over the various Berlin crises, the Prauge Spring, the Hungarian uprising, or any of the other flashpoints of the Cold War. You thought the Vietnam Memorial had a lot of names on it -- imagine if a full-out war had been fought in Europe and Asia.

    In short, the sheer destructiveness of the bomb actually forced even the most militant warmongers of the last fifty-five years to see reason. As perverse as it may sound, nuclear weapons saved countless lives.

  • It would have impressed me more if there had been a version that I could actually use... no linux version

  • for a plug-in that is not available for Linux.

    That would eliminate a lot of pages out there. And since it is just an annoyance, and not an actual barrier to viewing the page, it is still worth it. And besides... I would guess most people have access to a Windows box if you really need one.
  • Yet another fine way to annoy the neighbors, brought to you by the makers of....

    (Cue Cheesy Salesman Voice:)
    Neighborhood Nuclear Superiority!

    NNS, bringing you home terrorism since 1981!

    (Credit or apologies To Michael Nesmith and his Elephant Parts. ;)
  • Actually they also explain in the article that the formation of gas as the products of the detonation also enhance the explosion, as a larger volume of hot gas escaping the small initial blast is what is so destructive (the gas escaping the blast has the density of steel) so slapping nitro groups on the carbon skeleton enables the formation of N2. The ring strain is really just an avenue for dinky organic chemical substitution reactions, not blowing up school busses full of infidel's children...
  • Shouldn't we be thanking Rob and Slashdot for what they have already acomplished? They're working hard as many of us can empathise. Too many things. Why not just write your own code though? Use mysql & php to make something equal or better than slashdots current system. (i'm currently working on one) here are some good sources the DevShead [devshead.com] and WebMonkey [webmonkey.com] for those of you who just want to copy and paste and not learn anything... don't bother.
  • It adds to my scroll time and I could be doing something productive during that time... like... um... posting compla^H^H^H^H^H^Himportant messages on /.!

    ---
  • It'll probably be more unstable, but cubane will give a bigger boom. There are just more C-H bonds in cubane, which means more energy is released per molecule when they combust. Cyclopropane, and to a greater extent it's evil sister cyclopropene are less stable so they'd take less energy to blow up but the explosion wouldn't be as big as cubane. I'd take cubane for my bombmaking needs any day.

    --
  • How would you propose that they go about making money from the /. source code? Comments are easy, methods for making them are included in cgi programming books as example programs. Logins are likewise straightforward. Administering them is a little more difficult, but still feasible. The real jewel of the code is the moderation system, but that is unneccessary for sites with a low volume. So who are they going to sell this code to, that doesn't already employ programmers to make their own cgi solution anyway? I doubt there is much of a market for this kind of thing.

  • I faked the whole thing. Look, everyone, the original post and most of the replies are from the same half-hour. And get Rob to check the logs -- they're all from the same IP address.

    I did this to prove a point -- Slashdot moderators are complete morons that don't even bother to read before they moderate. I used the phrase "alternate hydrofusion techonology". Anyone who knows anything about the field will tell you that means ABSOLUTELY nothing! Veinluhg never existd, and Veinluhg isn't even a real name.

    I'll include a few different Anonymous Cowards comments along with this one just to keep it all in the same comment, which is still under this thread.

    I wouldn't exactly say that the Slashdot moderators are complete morons. I would have to say people who moderated this up were people who knew nothing of the chemistry field in the first place. Usually when I moderate I generally moderate things up that I KNOW something about. This is why it's good to have a moderation system such as this. It allows people who know something about the field to moderate something up when they have knowledge of the field. What happened here was people who knew nothing of the chemistry field decided this was a post worthy of moderating up. Which is a not so good thing and this case is a perfect example. People should stick to with what they know even if the post ends up being a score of 1.

    Now, for the other comment, which could be from the same person for all we know:)

    What I find most hilarious about this all is the pure power behind it. It must not be that hard to outsmart moderators when moderation privellages go to the 'Average /. user'. Who happens to be a bumbling idiot on average it seems. This almost supports my arguments against democracy itself.. An [un/mis]informed electorate out there, choosing those that will run the nation.

    This doesn't support your argument at all. What you're saying is everyone is a complete idiot and can't think for themselves, also what you're saying is we need someone else to think for them. Having a moderation system such as this or a democracy is a great thing. It allows people to freely give information whether true or not true, then allow other people to read this information and IF they know something of this subject allow the post to be set at a higher level which allows people who view messages on a score of +2 or better to just skip the "junk". Now if everyone would stay within the bounds of moderating something up with a subject they know about, things would work great. Now, when you have freedom you always seem to have a few bad apples in the bunch that take advantage of that (like what you just did, you bad apple you). If I was a moderator I could have actually cross referenced to see if what you said was true about Fritz Veinluhg and to see his written paper and came up empty handed. If I actually KNEW something about this field I could have known that this person didn't exist and moderated it down. However I did neither since I have no moderation points and because I know nothing of the field, plus I don't feel like cross referencing something so it would have just gone unmoderated with a score of (1). Now as for a democracy and electing a person for president, everyone can lookup information about the person they're voting for, ask other people about the person they're voting for, be it the president, alderman, mayor or what have you. I do this, and I'm sure other people do this as well. So I find your comment about the general public insulting. Who are you to tell me or anyone else that they're stupid and can't make a decided vote? This is the EXACT reason why we have a democracy! It makes it so one group can't get stronger than another group and gas them in gas chambers or something.

    Now mind you the second italics in here is from a different post from the same parent post, but this could possibly be from the same person, who knows? I just figured I'd throw this in the same post because it was on the same subject. :)

  • Notice the name Cuban-nee, Octa-nitro-Cuban-nee? Even the name of the chemist is from two Chinese communist leaders too. I remember there was one similar jokes about a molecule being discovered around administrations, government offices, etc., that can slow down chemical activities. That joke is on why things around these places just work slower than any other places. This one I'm not sure what the joke is, could be a little racial...
  • Moderation Totals:Offtopic=2, Flamebait=4, Troll=4, Funny=7, Underrated=1, Total=18

    Wow, that sure got you guys moving...


    Nice ASCII though... :)

  • And since the record is at least as old as October 29th, I guess they're not squatting (unlessthey knew about Cubane way back then...).

    Well, since cubane was produced back in the late 70s and was known then to be unstable (highly stressed carbon-carbon bonds), I'd assume they knew about it last year. Heck, researchers at Ohio State made dodecahedrane back in 1982, which is considerably harder to synthesize, if rather less explosive.

    The present advance is just nitrating it, so that instead of burning vigorously, it explodes. This happens because the molecule is now bonded to an oxidizing agent, so when the stressed carbon bonds are broken (by heat, shock, whatever), they can recombine with the nitrogen and oxygen just a few nanometers away, instead of pulling oxygen from the air.

    Disclaimer: I do physics, not organic chemistry.

  • Rocket fuel and explosives are VERY different things. For one thing, advanced liquid rocket fuel is often actually two separate compounds that react together in the reaction chamber. For another thing, rocket fuels don't have the same density requirements, since super-fast shockwave propagation is generally a BAD thing, seeing as how it would blow up the rocket. I don't think they want VentureStar to be another Challenger. One of the more common fuels for things like space shuttles is hydrogen and oxygen, which is not very dense in the combustion chamber. (They just store it as liquid for convenience.) The most common aviation fuel for atmospheric manuevering is Kerosene. If they wanted to add nitrates or something like that, they could, but experience shows that self-powered vehicles need a very different propulsion system than ballistic projectiles.
  • I almost want to sue this company... just for taking up space... they should be paying andover.net advertising fees
  • wow... trolls everywhere... yeah i think it's cool that they might be sell outs.. if you guys take a look at the readme in the slash code it's full of rob being poor and stuff... and now he isn't maybe enough people sent him money or something... send me money who ever you are!
  • The Chime plug-in comes from a computational chemistry company called MDL. It is itself build on the freely available rasmol program which does run on most platforms included Linux. Rasmol is not a plug-in, but it is a brilliant scriptable program.

  • At the Harvard Physics Labs (some 4 years ago now), my job was to write code that would simulate the synthesis of AntiHydrogen in an Open Ended Penning Trap. The trap itself was not very big; about 4 inches tall and a quarter's diameter. The only catch was that the containing magnetic field was required to be so strong (over 5 Tesla, if I remember correctly) that a 2-story Dewar containing an enormous superconducting coil was required to produce the field. (We had fun with screwdrivers that would tug at you and jump out of your hand!)

    What amused me about a superconducting magnetic coil was that it didn't require much extra energy to maintain the magnetic field, only to set it up. Theoretically, were a room-temperature superconducting material discovered, you could put the trap in your pocket...wiping every credit card in your presence, making weird patterns on nearby screens, and giving your future children third arms (not really). =)

    Quantity is also an issue. In order to be useable and trappable, you need "cold" antimatter (i.e., not moving at 99% of the speed of light!); LEAR used to be the #1 place for this sort of thing, but CERN closed LEAR down, so now we're just left with Fermilab, which apparently isn't very good at generating cold antimatter in quantity (that's just on hearsay). There's speculation of a new, better facility in the works...?

    But yes, just to bring things back to reality, my simulations on the computer dealt with a single antiproton being eased through clouds of positrons (anti-electrons) in the hope that some of the positrons would catch onto the antiproton to form AntiHydrogen. I'm not sure that in the 4 years since then they've even managed to get a single confirmed COLD (trapped) atom of AntiHydrogen. I remember that one of the funnier and more intriguing questions was "Which way will it fall under gravity?" (the strong presumtion is DOWN, but nobody knows for sure!).

    It's going to be a long time before we have to worry about anti-matter bombs, especially small, portable, undetectable ones. (6 Tesla magnetic fields and the devices that make them are pretty hard to sneak around in a subtle fashion!)


    David E. Weekly (dew, Think)

  • speeds up to 10,000 m/s

    That's more than escape velocity from earth. Now we can really blow things away... ;)
  • Rocket fuel and explosives are VERY different things

    Yes and no. What is desired is the deflagration of medium explosives (a very fast burn), but as one of NASA's suppliers demonstrated, that difference can be simply the difference of the agent you suspend it in - including, but not limited to plasicizers, without changing the chemical composition.

    I don't remember where it happened, but following the Challenger disaster, the shuttle program gound to a halt for more than two years, while the whole thing was sorted out. Meanwhile, the solid fuel propellants were still being produced, and were building up at the manufacturing plant. Sure enough, a fire started, and the last employees to leave the scene barely survived the first detonation. Had it deflagrated, the heat output would have most likely incinerated them.

    TC
  • I remember a lecture by Eaton about 2 or 3 years ago when he still only had heptanitrocubane and was working on introducing the last nitro group.
    When asked about his research funding he told the audience that a lot of it was coming from the Army. So I guess the real use for octanitrocubane will be small powerful explosive devices. But of course they will have to find feasible handling procedures for this.

    ________________________________
    If encryption is outlawed, only

  • I'm not sure if it would be possible to synthesise, or if it would revert to an adamantane structure, but a 4 Carbon Tetrahedronically arranged molecule would have even greater bond strain. We did say above that bond strain didn't directly relate to delta-H(combustion) but that would still be an extremely reactive molecule.

    Hows about tetranitrotetrahedrane? (having mental blackout on how to name polycyclics, and can't see how one would name this anyway, 1,2,2-tricyclo?). That would have to go somewhere on their 'strength tester' of how many bricks of steel it goes through when you blow it up.

    Does this compound exist (I think it would be similar to the structure for white phosphorus?), and is it possible to make?

    -Muttley
  • Antimatter would be even harder to comprehend to someone who hasn't read up on it. 100% conversion from mass to energy is not something to pass by.

    By way of comparison, the mass of the U235 converted to energy in the Hiroshima explosion was about the size of a stick of chewing gum. However, the device contained a grapefruit-sized mass of U235, meaning that less than 1% of the full mass was converted to energy.
  • then don't read every fucking comment on it! just skip the article.
  • I'd agree, actually.
  • First, you do not RELEASE energy by
    breaking C-H or C-C bonds. These bonds
    are exothermic. In order to explode the
    compound, you must OVERCOME the C-H and CC bonding
    energies, by compensating with the released energy
    of newly formed strong C=O and N*N-bonds (N and
    O from the nitro groups). Explosives often use compounds where the C-C bonds
    are intentionally weakened by ring strain and similar effects. Cubane derivatives are a good example.

    Second, it is not the amount of energy released
    by a molecule which counts, but the energy
    per liter or kilogram. And you can pack
    1 molecule of cubane into less space than
    ~2.5 cylcopropane molecules, even if
    we are talking about solid derivatives (unsubstituted cyclopropane and -ene are gases!)

    Third, there are other effects like the kinetics
    of reaction and the speed of sound in
    the compound which determine its usefulness
    as an explosive. And of course you need a gas
    release (CO2, N2) to be effective, because you want a rapid volume increase, not just burning
    heat (like with Thermite).
  • Tetrahedrane derivatives have been made. Not the
    unsubstituted mother compound, and not
    the nitrated version, as far as I know. There
    are many more spectacular strained compounds,
    like propellanes. There are a number of
    chemists (de Meijere et al.) who synthesize them
    by the dozend.


  • This site doesn't even touch on what Chime can do. It's fully scriptable, can do animations, is chemically smart, etc. I always laugh when I hear folks talking about how VRML will revolutionize chemistry on the web: VRML is simply pitiful compared to what Chime can do.

    For a couple of pages I worked up using Chime, see

    The atomic orbitals page [vt.edu]
    Repr esentative proteins [vt.edu]

    To the poster who lamented that Chime isn't available for Linux. Nope, but the Rasmol source code is available- start porting. Chime is one of the major reasons I use NT on my workstation rather than Linux. (I'm not a good enough C programmer to do it, or I'd consider it.)

    Eric

  • Well, while I agree the shock value of the Bomb did end the war, I would point out that it did still kill people.

    Now, hold off on the commie-accusation flames here, folks, until I'm done. The Bomb ended the war early. yay. in the end, less people total died. yay. I like that part. The non-yay part comes in here: the Bomb still killed people. Yeah, I know, it was war, blah blah. The Bomb still killed people. Sure, it lead to a decisive victory, the help of the Americans in rebuilding Japan, and a better quality of life fifty years later... but it STILL KILLED PEOPLE.

    My point is not a morality lesson, so I'm not going to get into why I'm obsessive about the Bomb killing people, except: go watch some videos of Hiroshima, see if you can still say anything good about it. There, done.

    NOW we come to my main point. It seems to my that many people involved in scientific research have a great deal of power. They create new technologies that increase our quality of life, and they create technologies like the Bomb. What frightens me is that, these days, we all seem to congratulate the scientists for EVERY discovery. Remember Spider-Man? "With great power comes great responsibility"? We seem to be developing a great many things these days without pausing to think about what they might be used for. I'm not saying we should halt scientific progress- God forbid. I am saying that instead of cheering the development of a new explosive, we should consider the ramifications of such a thing.

    Internal combustion engine: great thing. fabulous. we can drive now, we have SUVs, who doesn't love their cars? The USE of vehicles inside cities contributes a great deal to th pollutants there. Irresponsible use of the engine on a large scale leads to traffic jams, and a poor quality of air. sure, the air may not be killing anyone, but it's not fun to breathe. While the engine itself was a GREAT idea, society's USE of it has been not-so-great.

    Explosives: Gee, how responsible CAN you be with these things? Safe demolitions inside cities, and that sort of thing, those are good ideas. Killing people, the most obvious use of explosives, is not a good idea. Nobel figured this out just a little too late, but made amends. Society's use of explosives has been irresponsible, to say the least.

    The point? Every single reader of /. is a member of society. Whether they use new inventions or not, every /.er has a responsibility to at least recognize that every device they use has a lot of power- your computer can run a business or crash the NASDAQ. Instead of gushing over how cool a new explosive is, take just one minute and think about what the application of this is likely going to be.

    Maybe you could get into the habit of thinking about that- drive the car downtown, or take the transit? Sure, you obviously won't make any difference on your own, but does that mean you're less responsible for adding to the problem? I'm just saying that we all have a greast deal of power, and that we should realize that, and act appropriately with it. if you don't believe me, think about what would happen if you and all the technologies you wanted were dropped into medieval England. "This... is my BOOM-stick!".

    To conclude ("Finally!" "Hey, shut up!"), I want to restate my point. Every single human today has real power, tremendous power in some cases. Wake up, look at what you can do (travel across the globe in less than a week, breathe underwater, watch the entire planet at once from above), and DO something with that. Don't stop the development of the bombs- stop the development of the wars that let us use them. One person has the power to cause a war (cough cough-Helen of Troy, Hitler-cough cough). One person has the power to stop it (no examples- history books don't tell us about wars that DIDN'T happen, but I prefer that kind).

    Ah, well. That's my rant. Hopefully, one mildly (okay, it's a stretch) on-topic post, or at least a post/rant inspired by the topic, will be useful. Fifteen pages of trolls- look! Another use of power! (cough cough-moderate-use of power-cough)

  • Antimatter containment is 100% feasable.

    What you do is take your anti-proton, and then make a proton orbit it, in a manner exactly analogus to a conventional atom. They don't touch, so they do not anhilate. The anti-proton orbits at a radius much closer than that of the electron in hydrogen (due to it's much greater mass. In fact it's mor accurate to say that they orbit around a common centre of mass).

    This configuration is stable, until you excite the system, to seperate the two constituents, and allow them to recombine. This is exactly analogus to the photoelectric effect, and can be done by application of electromagnetic radiation (I belive that it's somewhere in the ultraviolet range, all though it might need to be x-rays).

    The system is pretty stable, as things go. Until made in bulk, it's impossable to say how stable, but predictions show that the rate of spontaneus decay is low enough to be a viable system of antimatter containment.

    This as the nice advantage that all you need to do to liberate energy is irradiate it, and it presents no more containment problems than, say, tritium.

    I belive that three (3) 'atoms' of this were made, although I can't find a reference on that. Problem is that in order to make it, you require to pass two streams, one matter, one anti matter past each other. The yield from this is exceptionally low.

    Still, problem of containment, and ignition, has been solved. With this, in a system, it would be feasable to have a 1 mg antimatter bomb the size of your computer. If memory serves me correct, that's enough to destroy Earth.

    Sweet dreams...
    --
  • And this would be a good thing?
  • I shook the can. he he he. i feel like a troll..
  • But Charlie is no more.
    What he thought was H2O
    Was Octanitrocubane.
    ---
  • Imagine: Kurt Cubane and a molecule that destroys itself. Hmmm... Is there some similarity here?

  • And sometimes it's a Cubane Cigar. Looks like the old exploding cigar prank is going to get a new lease on life.


    ---
  • Earth escape velocit is 11.2 km/s == 11200 m/s. Not 10 kmps
  • The March 1945 firebombing of Tokyo actually killed more people than either use of the atomic bomb,

    This sounds dubious. I asked a friend, who's a history major specializing in Japanese history, and she says that the figures are controversial, especially if you take into account the subsequent deaths from radiation sickness. Korean slave laborers injured by the A-bomb weren't registered as victims and weren't counted in the death toll either.

    In short, the sheer destructiveness of the bomb actually forced even the most militant warmongers of the last fifty-five years to see reason.

    Which is the point exactly. The A-bomb was less necessary as a tool to force Japan to surrender, but more necessary as a show of US military might; it marked the beginning of the cold war rather than the end of the war in the Pacific. The Japanese were made an example of, which makes the morality of the A-bomb highly questionable.

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