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Justice Department's Bio-terror Mistake 477
destinyland writes "University professor and artist Steve Kurtz publicizes the history of chemical weapons with performance art pieces. The day his wife died of a heart attack, 911 responders mistook his scientific equipment for bioterrorism supplies. After he was detained for 22 hours, Homeland Security cordoned off his block, and a search was performed on his house in hazmat suits, they found nothing. Now they're prosecuting him for "mail fraud" for the way he obtained $256 of harmless bacteria."
Terror is winning (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Insightful)
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So what's so different about government? Government is, after all, nothing but a collection of common men. If all men are supposedly equal, then how did some men (government) obtain the ability to suspend the code of eth
Re:Terror is winning (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Terror is winning (Score:4, Insightful)
So by your definition, what is happening in Myanmar isn't considered terrorism because your definition only applies to the US? I guess US law enforcement over reacting and charging someone with a crime, who will get a day in court, is worse than when a known totalitarian regime actively kills people in public.
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I think you miss the point.
What is happening in Myanmar is a pure violation of human rights. The authorities of Myanmar are also arguing... "Well, they wouldn't have gotten shot if they had not made s
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Also because Myanmar-Shave just sounds silly.
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Americans and Brits are up to their balls in trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan. But all I see in the news is Myanmar and Sudan. Seems like somebody is trying to shift public attention in the US and the UK from the qu
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This is one of over a hundred such cases.
Hale to the Fatherland.
Sue
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http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hail [reference.com]
If you're going to indulge in political satire, at least learn your fascist salutes please.
Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not panic, it's just common sense.
Re:Terror is winning (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Terror is winning (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Interesting)
As Franklin observed, those who would trade their liberty for imagined security deserve neither. And now we have neither, nor are we ever going to. There are times when I look at my 10 year old son and I am consumed with guilt at what I have brought him into.
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Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Insightful)
In most of the world's undemocratic regimes, life goes on as normal for most people. They get up, do their thing, come home, go to bed, and start all over again the next day. Most of these regimes are considered undemocratic and are on UN and State Department lists as human rights abusers.
Yes, life goes on as normal for most people, just like it did in Germany in the late 30's and the Soviet bloc countries before the 90's. Normal
But hey - for your neighbours this will just be one of those "relatively few days when we really notice the changes affecting us personally".
If you've got 5 minutes lookup Martin Niemöller.
Lack of empathy among the governed is the greatest boon to those with dictatorial ambitions.
I call bunk (Score:3)
Anyone see that cell phone add where a bunch of people doing different stuff all get an IM and rush off to some super market. They all act very suspicious and then do a cart race in the middle of the store. I think that ad should have a gun shot at the end. I know that will strike some of you as odd or bad, but w
Re:Terror is winning (Score:4, Funny)
You definitely made the better choice.
Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Informative)
We're from the government... (Score:4, Interesting)
-- The sad thing is they butcher the government programs make them worse than having nothing... then argue that they should be disbanded because they don't work. FEMA was a fantastic agency under Clinton, on the ball and everything, they weren't posting guards to prevent help from getting to people needing help.
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Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Insightful)
Cops everywhere work on the premise that you're either a "good guy" or you're a "scumbag". They've always worked on this premise, even in your precious United States. That's the culture of law enforcement. They're the "thin blue line" between civilization and chaos, remember.
That's why we have a legal system and don't just leave justice up to the police.
Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless they say you're a 'terrah' suspect and ship you off to guantanamo bay without any kind of trial.
Re:Terror is winning (Score:4, Informative)
And leave you there. From Wikipedia: "Since the Afghanistan war 775 detainees who have been brought to Guantanamo, approximately 420 have been released. As of August 09, 2007, approximately 355 detainees remained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. More than a fifth have been cleared for release but may have to wait months or years for their freedom because U.S. officials are finding it increasingly difficult to line up places to send them, according to Bush administration officials and defense lawyers. Of the roughly 355 still incarcerated, U.S. officials said they intend to eventually put 60 to 80 on trial and free the rest."
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You do recognize that under your logic (or lack there of), every German officer, soldier and spy picked up during WWII, could not be held, without first being read their rights, shipped to the US, and then having before a Judge and been convicted of fighting in the German army.
When you consider to hold the trial, we would obviously had to ship back US, British
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Now, think about who you'd turn in for money. The actual freedom fighter who could strike back at the imperialist pigs, or the annoying guy down the block who plays his stereo too loud and threatened you for calling the cops?
If these really were combatants, it would be cut and dried. They'd go home when the fighting ends. But they aren't, and often there neve
Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Informative)
Yasser Esam Hamdi
Kevin James
Were born in the US, and are just a few of the US Citizens in Gitmo [cageprisoners.com]
I'm not saying any of these men are innocent -- just that they deserve due process under the law like any other citizen, regardless their religion or hairstyle.
Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Interesting)
But, the police are the first line you encounter with 'the justice system'. They have the discretion of arresting you, warning you, or just letting you go if they find nothing wrong.
The trouble is...if they stop you or you are investigated these days....EVEN if they are mistaken, they now seem to assume they have to take you and and charge you with "something" whether it sticks or not, and now YOU have to take time, and often a good deal of $$$ these days, to go defend yourself.
This didn't really seem to be the way years ago. In the past, I've been let off for minor traffic offenses...especially as a teen. Going a little fast? "Slow it down son", and I was let off with a warning. Hell, once I'd have a few drinks...had some Taco Bell in the car and was heading home. Cop pulled me over....asked if I'd been drinking..I said no...the said don't lie to me, so I told him yes, I'd been to a party, and realized I'd not eaten, so I left, got food and was going home...and I was only blocks away from home. He asked my friend with me if he was ok to drive (actually he was maybe a bit worse than I), he saw on my license I was close to home, and told him to drive us home, and if he saw me out again that night...I was going to jail. We went straight home.
You think that would happen today???? No..they HAVE to charge you with something if they take the 'time' out of their shift to pull you over or question you. The previous example IS extreme I'll grant you, but, I'm just telling an extreme one to illustrate how lenient cops would be back in the past if you weren't really doing anything bad (rape, robbery, etc). And no, back 15-20 years ago...driving with a few drinks wasn't the uber-crime it is today...drunk driving, yes, but, they didn't do random roadblocks, and you didn't get pulled over unless you were weaving badly...or speeding (which I did to get through a yellow light at that time).
Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at what actually happened. He created an art project designed to look like a biological warfare project. His whole POINT was to make it look like it was dangerous. Having his house searched should be a sign that he succeeded in his goals. If the police walk in to find something that exactly replicates a biological warfare setup, I should hope that they stop and call the experts before casually dismissing it. The only difference between his project and something deadly was the fact that he used harmless bacteria. The difference in bacteria was completely invisible to an officer on the scene and possibly even to a biology expert without testing. He should take it as a compliment that his art project worked well enough to fool the police. The search of his house was definitely erring in the right direction, especially given that there have been biological attacks through the mail in the US [wikipedia.org].
The mail fraud charge is a closer case, but it's far from obvious based on a one-sided article that it's baseless. The American Type Culture Collection is a research system, not a toy. They provide cultures that range from harmless to deadly, and they understandably don't sell their wares to any idiot who walks in off the street. There's a reason why I can't just all up and place an order for 50 ml of HIV. Even something that's only mildly dangerous -- maybe E. coli -- can result in some nasty accidents if mis-handled. To order from the ATCC, "You must be able to demonstrate that your expertise and your institution's facilities are appropriate for handling biological materials." [atcc.org] That seems like a pretty good common-sense restriction. If you don't have the appropriate facilities to handle biological materials the ATCC won't sell them to you. If our artist friend lied in order to trick the ATCC into thinking that he worked for a university that had biological facilities then that seems like mail fraud to me. Sure, in this case the whole thing got shut down before anybody got hurt, but that doesn't lessen the importance of maintaining the integrity of the ATCC system. Saying "he shouldn't be punished, nobody got hurt" is like saying "I shouldn't get a speeding ticket, I didn't hit anybody." The restriction on the ATCC is legitimate and he broke it, apparently by lying in an attempt to deceive them. That's fraud if true.
Let's see a more balanced source.
Re:Terror is winning (Score:4, Insightful)
who works in full view of the public,
whose work can be found in a minute's googling,
who documents every step he takes,
for a terrorist
who might be expected to make at least a token effort to keep his doings secret, no matter how inept he is,
is pretty idiotic.
These are face-saving measures, nothing else.
And if, in mailing out harmless bacteria to a person, the institute did not at least google his university and status, to make sure he was permitted to receive said harmless bacteria, Mr. Kurtz did the authorities a favor in uncovering sloppy security procedures at said institute, which should then be the party requiring prosecution instead of Mr. Kurtz.
But perhaps you think that journalists who smuggle guns on airplanes and then reveal the flaws in airport security to the public should be thrown in jail as well. If intentions don't count, then every tank truck driver carrying hazardous substances who has an accident should be prosecuted as a terrorist.
Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Insightful)
From their point of view he could have ordered any bug.
Plus, he ordered two bugs he thought were harmless and then by his own admission "turns out one is not so harmless and can cause pbuemonia".
Is he being made an example of? Probably.
Is it warrented? Tough call. Might this make any other bio prof think twice before ordering bugs for some purpose not what they claimed? Probably.
Will this stop a bio terrorist? No.
The liability for the USG is pretty big here. Somebody goes to see his show then gets pnuemonia, then dies. The investigation reveals an artist surrepticuously ordered bacteria breaking all sort of safeguards and rules along the way. He could have used flourescine powder not real bacteria and just as effective a demonstration
Would it seem reasonable to you that the USG's response in this case would be "yeah it happens". Or, if it were, say your daughter who died would you want them to "do something" like maybe punish the bio-guy who flat out violated the terms and conditions under which they were able to get the bugs?
The govt is a big dumb machine. It has rules. Break them and you really can't expect nothing will happen.
I can't say I feel sorry for these guys. I appreciate their ideas and work, but this was just callously stupid. I doubt he'll get 20 years but my guess is they won't get off scot free. And I'm not sure they should.
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Re:Terror is winning (Score:4, Insightful)
How nice of you to believe in Laws and Justice. So if your neighbor thinks you are a whack job and calls the police, should we defend you or agree with your neighbor that you deserve whatever the law can dish out.
At some point in everyones they could perform some action that some other person classes as "whackjob".
That is why we have the rule of laws, not the rule of your personal opinion.
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This way, if they can make anything stick, he can't sue them for wrongdoing.
But what the hell do I know. I'm not even american.
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So it seems that unless you are a pot-bellied, glued-to-the-tube, backyard BBQ, All American meat head, there's no place left for you in the good 'ol US of A. Before we know it, all the smart people, or people with different ideas, will be in jail or litigated into bankruptcy and living under bridges where the cops can more easily harass them. I'm so proud to be an American -- now where's my remote?
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Re:Terror is winning (Score:5, Informative)
how did he commit fraud? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:how did he commit fraud? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's the same stupid reason we're going to try to send a perfectly innocent college student to jail for wearing blinking lights on her shirt to the airport.
The search and investigation were probably justified. The prosecution almost certainly isn't. When did we forget that it's OK to do an investigation which turns up no evidence of guilt?
Re:how did he commit fraud? (Score:5, Insightful)
Right around the time "probable cause" made it OK to ignore the constitution and [investigate|terrorize|go on a fishing expedition with] anyone the powers that be don't like.
This would also be right around the same time that the whole "double jeopardy" thing got worked around by filing state charges and then federal charges back-to-back or after losing in one arena.
The "fraud charge" gambit probably references some technicality in WHY he wanted them evil-smarty-things that no honest (stupid|docile|sheep) citizen would want.
The government's agenda for a while has been Citizen = stupid. After all, no citizen should be able to create or research or learn anything without A) A university to pay money to or B) a large corporation in which to be enslaved, right?
C.E.
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If "authorities" are so fragile that they cannot admit that they made a mistake (or at least apologize and move on, mumbling something about "we had to be sure") there's a real problem.
Perhaps admitting error is a sign of weakness to some people. To me it's a sign of strength and character.
Wearing blinking lights attached to a strange-looking device to an airport as a publicity stunt for an art project is an
Re:how did he commit fraud? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:how did he commit fraud? (Score:5, Informative)
The fraud claim wasn't about the contents of the package - instead, it was based on how the order was placed. According to an article on AlterNet, "The $256 Question" [alternet.org] :
I think that's an accurate description from Kurtz's point of view, since I found the Alternet article via a link on the Critical Art Ensemble Defense Fund's press release page [caedefensefund.org].
So yeah, seems like there was mail fraud, but in a technically-correct-but-really-lame sense of "fraud" that reeks of desperation to pin something - anything - on Kurtz.
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Sore Losers (Score:2)
Re:Sore Losers (Score:4, Interesting)
There, fixed that for you
blinking lights, everyday life forms in test tubes (Score:3, Funny)
Depends on a context. (Score:4, Insightful)
And so was this arts professor SOL: Imagine YOU were the (non-specialist) rescuer that saw a woman go down and die in a house full of makeshift but specialized microbiological equipment whose owner is jittery to the max, and claims to be an artist, and cannot describe the equipment's purpose?
Same for the idiot girl wearing the LEDs: handling the bricks of modelling clay out at an airport is not what a blinkenlights dork normally does. Not after the two planes blew up because of women carrying "modelling clay" a few years ago.
Dickhead (Score:4, Informative)
And shit for brains.
Do you wonder why Americans and the "free world" are threatened with terrorist activity? I mean it obviously couldn't have anything to do with how you select arbitrary groups of people around the world, demonize them to make it appear moraly okay to rob them, persecute, terrorise them and kill them to further your interests?
Could it be that so many of your most vocal and prominant figures are so obviously either corrupt or stupid? Or the fact that you insist on challenging other nations for their transgressions with regard to international law and being the world's police force while your own agencies completely disregard the rule of law, as this case highlights?
No, it's probably because every one else is jealous of your freedom.
Big fucking rant here, but I am so sick of seeing absolute shit like that re-inforcing propaganda on a site that is supposed to be a bit more intelligent than the usual fare. Terrorist manuals are avaliable in many languages. Copies of the SAS handbook, anarchist cookbook, etc are out there and they are not in arabic.
I personally feel safer about Iran having a nuclear program than I do about the US having one. How many wars have Iran started in the last 50 years? How about the United States? In those wars, which nation has used WMDs? Which nation has supplied more WMDs to other nations to fight proxy wars? Which nation has taken a decade to go from cooperation to war with at least two former allies?
Sure, Iran has threatened Isreal, but Isreal is a state born from terrorism with a total lack of regard for international law. It is a state that continues to commit human rights abuses on the population it has displaced through the theft of land. It has developed nuclear weapons, refused to sign the NNPT and given it's total disregard for the humanity of any nation around it, and the fact that Iran supports the Palestinian people, I think it is much more likely that Isreal will be the agressor in any nuclear exchange in the middle East. I support Irans nuclear program if for no other reason than to keep Isreal in check.
Your own government commits human rights abuses and supports foreign governments that commit human rights abuses. The most extreme abuses are of course reserved for non citizens, but I believe in the rule of law and a crime is a crime. Please fuck off with your propaganda, it insults my intelligence. And don't come back with that fucking US centric democrat voting liberal shit. I don't understand your political divisions and I don't want to. My opinions are my opinions, this post is predominantly fact.
Sincerest apologies to any intelligent americans who can see through the propaganda but feel insulted by the strong language in this rant.
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While you have many points in
Sounds about right (Score:3, Insightful)
Heavens forbid they apologize for putting him through hell. Oh no, can't have that. That would be a sign of weakness.
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Like that "Hoax device" BS. (Score:5, Insightful)
IANAL, but oughtn't that to be illegal?
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And then this hits the media... (Score:2)
Our bad!
Sincerely,
The Department of Homeland Security
Re:And then this hits the media... (Score:5, Funny)
P.S. We are still going to charge you with something.
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P.P.S. Our bad for that too. But lets just keep this between us eh?
Mail Fraud eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
Now again, they should not have handled it the way they did. They should have been a lot nicer and lest gung ho about the whole situation, but they should have, and did, handle the situation, and that's good.
As for the Mail Fraud charge...I wonder what the story behind that is. That I can see in the article he never denies that he committed fraud, nor confirms it, so it seems entirely possible that they happened across this and decided to prosecute him for it, and it's also possible that they're just trying to hit him with something to make it look like they accomplished something. There's not enough info to really tell...
Re:Mail Fraud eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
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WTF (Score:2)
It is a crazy opinion, and it has nothing to do with the case.
So I should be able to breed anthrax in my home, just because I love growing anthrax bacteria?
How about if I'm just curious to know if I'm able to weaponize anthrax spores into a dry powder, so I just do it?
On a more everyday note, I guess it's OK for husbands to hold up a gun and threaten to kill their wife and kids if she leaves him, as long as in his mind he
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It is a crazy opinion, and it has nothing to do with the case.
If you say so.
So I should be able to breed anthrax in my home, just because I love growing anthrax bacteria?
Yup.
How about if I'm just curious to know if I'm able to weaponize anthrax spores into a dry powder, so I just do it?
Yup.
On a more everyday note, I guess it's OK for husbands to hold up a gun and threaten to kill their wife and kids if she leaves him, as long as in his mind he knows it's just a big joke.
Hey, it's left field calling, they want their ball back.
Or what about if he just shoots and misses her? No harm, no foul, right?
Queue "firing a gun into a crowd" argument.
Is it really so hard to understand? Freedom is better than security.
Re:WTF (Score:4, Insightful)
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Okay. I'll just amass tanks of aerosolized Ebola until I save enough money to buy a plane with enough fuel to dump it on every bit of inhabited land on the planet.
-:sigma.SB
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Only the best run departments will say they made a mistake and apologize and then try to work with the victim to
This story is very very very very very very old. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This story is very very very very very very old (Score:3, Informative)
Re:This story is very very very very very very old (Score:5, Insightful)
This is what happens (Score:2, Interesting)
They have to move forward in an attempt to stave off lawsuits.
In the industry... (Score:5, Funny)
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Can you hear me Boston? Let me turn it up for you.
Tea (Score:2)
In Soviet Russia... (Score:5, Funny)
This is why the US is falling behind (Score:5, Insightful)
When perfectly innocuous activities make people go totally apeshit with suspicion of their neighbors, the terrorists win.
What really grinds my gears, though, is how common sense goes right out the fucking window... if this guy had anything to hide, why would he have allowed the authorities to see it? If he was up to no good, he'd have dragged his wife's body into the yard and told them she keeled over tending to the garden or something, and never let the EMTs or whoever in the damn house. Failing that, he'd at least have taken the time to hide the dodgy stuff first before making the call-- "I was taking a nap, and when I woke up, she was dead!"
No. Instead, they're thinking, "Wow, what a lucky break, this terrorist invited us in to see all his incriminating terrorist supplies! Homeland Security FTW!"
Fucking morons.
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No, we needed to delude people so we could go to war. "Weapons of mass destruction" "mushroom cloud" etc.
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It's not just tinkerers, either. Note that they also confiscated "posters with 'suspicious' Arabic lettering on them." This just made me laugh. If you don't know Arabic
A sad indication... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Defeat of Terrorism? (Score:2)
University professor and artist Steve Kurtz publicizes the history of chemical weapons with performance art pieces. The day his wife died of a heart attack, 911 responders mistook his scientific equipment for bioterrorism supplies.
My neighbor puts on the same kind of show - you know, another one of those performance art pieces about the history of chemical weapons. It seems like no one attends his performances.... he says it has something to do with the feds scaring people away.
At first I didn't believe him, but after reading this story, I'm not so sure.
Is this freedom? (Score:2)
What a maroon (Score:5, Funny)
Do it again and you've got $65,536 worth of bacteria which is serious money.
Re:What a maroon (Score:5, Funny)
Something of Interest from the defense website (Score:3, Insightful)
No joking allowed (Score:5, Insightful)
Twenty-five years ago I was talking to a friend about a book I'd been reading about the Trinity atomic bomb tests. Naturally I kept saying "atomic bomb." As we happened to be in an airport at the time, and happened to be approaching security, he started to look increasingly nervous and finally said something. He was right, of course, but what's the effect?
The effect is that I am now self-conscious about what I talk about in security checkpoints... and airports in general (after all, they're monitoring book titles)... and public places in general. I obviously don't talk seriously about bombs, and by extension I certainly mustn't joke about bombs, and of course the safest thing is not to joke at all.
I'm not going to wear satirical political T-shirts at public events where Bush is speaking... in fact maybe it's just prudent not to wear satirical T-shirts at all.
I've been delighted by the emergence of cheap "blinkies," those little battery-powered LED flashers that use strong magnets and attach to clothing, earlobes, etc. Maybe it would be fun to be slightly outrageous and wear some of those just for the heck of it on New Years' Day? No, after the Boston "mooninite" scare and the MIT student who got into trouble the other day, it's probably best not to wear any blinking lights in public.
Don't do anything to tweak public officials. Since you're not sure what will tweak them, best to just shut up and behave compliantly.
Conform. Don't stand out. Wear "normal" clothing. Don't act in any way that calls attention to yourself. Don't read books in public with political or religious titles (except the Bible, of course). Play it safe. Don't joke.
In fact, best not to smile.
Just like Moscow in the days of the Soviet Union.
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Why privacy is important (Score:3, Insightful)
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What does "rhythms" mean? Did you mean "rhymes"? In which case, with what does it rhyme?
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I'm traveled a fair bit, and I've yet to hear a dialect or accent where those two words rhyme.
Perhaps it's our definition of 'rhyme' that differs.
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Being vindictive to innocent people who have or like things that are complicated or blink is just plain silly.
You are aware, I'm sure, that most real biological weapons and bombs look entirely innocuous. You know,
Re:He asked for it.... (Score:4, Interesting)
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So everyone who has a common cold or athlete's foot should be "under careful scrutiny and control" ???
Anyone can go visit a local lake and come up with a culture more harmful than what this guy had. The natural environment is full of this stuff. Leave a bagel out on your kitchen counter for a weekend and you have a bioterrorism weapon?
Let's get real here.