New Report Suggests a Different Chinese Government Cover-Up on Covid-19 Origins (yahoo.com) 123
"COVID-19 origin theorists could be right about a Chinese government cover-up," reports The Week, "but they might have their sights set in the wrong direction, an American virologist suggested to Bloomberg."
When an international group of experts organized by the World Health Organization traveled to Wuhan, China, earlier this year to research the origins of the coronavirus that sparked the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, they visited the Baishazhou market, which is larger, but perhaps less well-known (internationally, at least) than the Huanan market, where many people initially believed the virus first jumped from wild animals to humans.
The research team was told only frozen foods, ingredients, and kitchenware were sold there. But a recently released study that had previously languished in publishing limbo showed, thanks to data meticulously collected over 30 months, that at least two vendors there regularly sold live wild animals, Bloomberg reports. Bloomberg also notes that one of the earliest recorded COVID-19 clusters in Wuhan [December 19th] involved a Huanan stall employee who traded goods back and forth between the two markets.
A link between them would be "very intriguing," Stephen Goldstein, an evolutionary virology research associate at the University of Utah, told Bloomberg...
[I]t seems likely to Goldstein that some authorities didn't want the presence of a thriving wildlife trade to become public knowledge. "It seems to me, at a minimum, that local or regional authorities kept that information quiet deliberately. It's incredible to me that people theorize about one type of cover-up," he said, likely referring to the hypothesis that the virus actually leaked from a nearby government-run lab, "but an obvious cover-up is staring them right in the face."
The paper contains "meticulously collected data and photographic evidence supporting scientists' initial hypothesis — that the outbreak stemmed from infected wild animals..." according to Bloomberg's article. (Alternate URL here.) According to the report, which was published in June in the online journal Scientific Reports, minks, civets, raccoon dogs, and other mammals known to harbor coronaviruses were sold in plain sight for years in shops across the city, including the now infamous Huanan wet market, to which many of the earliest Covid cases were traced... [Researcher Xiao Xiao's] animal logs included masked palm civets and raccoon dogs — both involved in the 2003 SARS outbreak — and other species susceptible to coronavirus infections, such as bamboo rats, minks, and hog badgers. Of the 38 species Xiao documented, 31 were protected.
Anyone caught violating China's wild animal conservation law faces fines and up to 15 years of imprisonment. But enforcement was lax, as evidenced by the fact that many of the Wuhan shops displayed their wares openly, "caged, stacked and in poor condition," Xiao observed in the report.
Xiao estimated that 47,381 wild animals were sold in Wuhan over the survey period.
Collaborating with four more scientists (including three from the University of Oxford), Xiao had submitted their manuscript to a journal for publication in February of 2020 — only to have it rejected. "Had the study been made public right away, the search for the origins of the virus might have taken a very different course..." Bloomberg writes: Disease detectives arriving from Beijing on the first day of 2020 ordered environmental samples to be collected from drains and other surfaces at the market. Some 585 specimens were tested, of which 33 turned out to be positive for SARS-CoV-2... All but two of the positive specimens came from a cavernous and poorly-ventilated section of the market's western wing, where many shops sold animals....
As other nations began blaming the Chinese Communist Party for the pandemic, the government grew defensive. It may have been embarrassed that its citizens were still eating wild animals bought in wet markets — a well-known path for zoonotic disease transmission that China tried unsuccessfully to outlaw almost 20 years ago...
Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry, denied "wildlife wet markets" existed in the country...
The research team was told only frozen foods, ingredients, and kitchenware were sold there. But a recently released study that had previously languished in publishing limbo showed, thanks to data meticulously collected over 30 months, that at least two vendors there regularly sold live wild animals, Bloomberg reports. Bloomberg also notes that one of the earliest recorded COVID-19 clusters in Wuhan [December 19th] involved a Huanan stall employee who traded goods back and forth between the two markets.
A link between them would be "very intriguing," Stephen Goldstein, an evolutionary virology research associate at the University of Utah, told Bloomberg...
[I]t seems likely to Goldstein that some authorities didn't want the presence of a thriving wildlife trade to become public knowledge. "It seems to me, at a minimum, that local or regional authorities kept that information quiet deliberately. It's incredible to me that people theorize about one type of cover-up," he said, likely referring to the hypothesis that the virus actually leaked from a nearby government-run lab, "but an obvious cover-up is staring them right in the face."
The paper contains "meticulously collected data and photographic evidence supporting scientists' initial hypothesis — that the outbreak stemmed from infected wild animals..." according to Bloomberg's article. (Alternate URL here.) According to the report, which was published in June in the online journal Scientific Reports, minks, civets, raccoon dogs, and other mammals known to harbor coronaviruses were sold in plain sight for years in shops across the city, including the now infamous Huanan wet market, to which many of the earliest Covid cases were traced... [Researcher Xiao Xiao's] animal logs included masked palm civets and raccoon dogs — both involved in the 2003 SARS outbreak — and other species susceptible to coronavirus infections, such as bamboo rats, minks, and hog badgers. Of the 38 species Xiao documented, 31 were protected.
Anyone caught violating China's wild animal conservation law faces fines and up to 15 years of imprisonment. But enforcement was lax, as evidenced by the fact that many of the Wuhan shops displayed their wares openly, "caged, stacked and in poor condition," Xiao observed in the report.
Xiao estimated that 47,381 wild animals were sold in Wuhan over the survey period.
Collaborating with four more scientists (including three from the University of Oxford), Xiao had submitted their manuscript to a journal for publication in February of 2020 — only to have it rejected. "Had the study been made public right away, the search for the origins of the virus might have taken a very different course..." Bloomberg writes: Disease detectives arriving from Beijing on the first day of 2020 ordered environmental samples to be collected from drains and other surfaces at the market. Some 585 specimens were tested, of which 33 turned out to be positive for SARS-CoV-2... All but two of the positive specimens came from a cavernous and poorly-ventilated section of the market's western wing, where many shops sold animals....
As other nations began blaming the Chinese Communist Party for the pandemic, the government grew defensive. It may have been embarrassed that its citizens were still eating wild animals bought in wet markets — a well-known path for zoonotic disease transmission that China tried unsuccessfully to outlaw almost 20 years ago...
Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry, denied "wildlife wet markets" existed in the country...
So What Else Is New (Score:4, Insightful)
China lied. Big deal. China lies all the time. Everything that comes out of a Communist government is a lie. The communist government of China is no better than a terrorist nation.
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This has little to do with Communism and has more to do with Chinese traditional "eat-every-thing-that-movism".
It is also not new and not limited to the Chinese (though they are the worst offenders). You can get all kinds of interesting stuff on Asian and African markets. Just wink at the right time. My only question is: "How many pandemics does it take for the Chinese to learn the lesson and terminate the wet markets they way we did it 30 years ago?".
Further to this, this hypothesis is ac
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Ah but the last two allows us to blame the Americans and who doesn't love that?
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Your comprehension of the linked project is somewhat inaccurate. Given that bats are a regular host of coronaviruses that can cross over to humans, this project wants to evaluate how often, and how, this transmission can occur.
This is not uncommon-- I'm sure you can find similar projects for swine flu and h1n1.
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You're reading comprehension is awful, read it again. Specifically you missed the last sentence of the abstract.
Re: Escape from lab theory is much more plausible (Score:3)
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The assertions made by the referenced scientists have been rebutted many times over already. 1) CGG-CGG can and does exist naturally. - https://theconversation.com/co [theconversation.com]... [theconversation.com]
Your article supports his point. It says straight up that the CGG codon is significantly less likely to occur naturally (compared to the other codons).
Re: Escape from lab theory is much more plausible (Score:2)
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I'm not sure you understand how probability works. Take a statistics class.
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The odds of a 1 in 1 million chance is still not zero. So it can happen. Ignoring the edge cases in statistics is one of the greatest crimes perpetrated by the misuse of statistics.
This is why I always browse at -1 score threshold. (Score:1)
-1 downvote assault for using facts and logic that Liberals and Communists don't like Standard 2021 Slashdot
Indeed. That's why I always browse at -1. Communist propaganda always gets modded up to 5, while inconvenient truths often get modded down to -1. Some might say it's a badge of honor!
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In China as in Europe, some people eat stuff bats and civets and the like, but it's not *normal*. The meats that are ordinarily eaten in a typical Chinese household are chicken, duck, fish, pork, beef and lamb, and then usually in relatively modest quantities. Being frugal they'll eat more of the animal than an American would (unless it's ground up and served in a hot dog), but eating things like organ meat isn't unheard of in western culture too.
It's not like most Chinese people remember their grannies
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Swine flu was from Americans eating pigs. BSE from Brits eating beef.
The only way to stop this is for everyone to go vegan. Even dairy isn't safe, remember salmonella?
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The only way to stop this is for everyone to go vegan. Even dairy isn't safe, remember salmonella?
Plants aren't safe, there's e.coli and other infections from salad regularly
Re: So What Else Is New (Score:3, Insightful)
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I guess people living in Somalia or Afganisthan would disagree.
Xi Streisand (Score:2)
They don't seem to understand that lying about small things fuels conspiracies involving big things.
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China lied. Big deal. China lies all the time. Everything that comes out of a Communist government is a lie. The communist government of China is no better than a terrorist nation.
Pretty much not true, at least the "everything" part or the "terrorist" nation. My estimate would be that China lies about as much as the US or Russia, i.e. a lot, but far from being one of the worst offenders.
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about as much as the US or Russia
Wow you're fucking stupid, comrade.
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My estimate would be that China lies about as much as the US or Russia, i.e. a lot, but far from being one of the worst offenders.
How do you estimate something like that, and who is the worst offender?
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Some people actually took the effort to count all of Trump lies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
So looks like USA was the worst offender for the last 5 years.
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Some people actually took the effort to count all of Trump lies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
So looks like USA was the worst offender for the last 5 years.
Probably. Not anymore.
It's not terrorism (Score:1)
China makes a ton of money off the wet markets and deforestation. They are very much a capitalist country (with a heavy dose of Kleptocracy).
The last thing China wants is to stop making all that money. They need it, because they need massive economic growth to distract from the complete lack of civil rights they offer their citizens.
This is why the heavily debunked [slashdot.org] lab leak nonsense won't go away. It benefits China since, while they're
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Because it's hypocritical as fuck. You can't be calling for better treatment of people while sending people back to that environment. How the hell does that punish the CCP?
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Because it's hypocritical as fuck. You can't be calling for better treatment of people while sending people back to that environment. How the hell does that punish the CCP?
It keeps them from being forced into spying on us, which is a different thing, but still an SOP of Chinese citizens living here. https://www.wired.com/story/ch... [wired.com].
Communist as a race to hate (Score:2)
That would make it easier to understand the motivation for such tripe.
(Whatever China is now, Karl Marx is not involved. Too bad we can't ask Groucho to explain?)
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"wet markets" are markets with a common trough down the middle for the blood of freshly slaughtered animals.
In the west those disappeared hundreds of years before refrigeration, to be replaced with preserved meats. And fresh meat was slaughtered in specialist buildings, not in public markets. Or animals purchased in the market and slaughtered at home.
You're just waving your hands and guessing.
hip folks go to now full of organic whatever
If there is one thing you can always count on from a right wing moron, it is ignorance.
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No, wet markets are any market where live animals are sold to the public for food. Iâ(TM)ve never seen a wet market with a trough like that in Hong Kong, China or Vietnam. Youâ(TM)re just making stuff up.
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False.
Moron detected.
Question: What makes them "wet?"
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"Wet" is a euphemism. They aren't literally wet.
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It doesn't mean "fish market." It means a market with a water trough.
Melting blocks of ice?! LOLOLOL
They have wet markets in villages without electricity. Or ice.
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Yes, I'm an asshole, "Anonymous Coward." Fucking grow a pair and insult with your name attached.
There is nothing wrong with being an asshole. The problem here is that you're a dumb fuck. If you were capable of rubbing two braincells together you'd be able to figure out what we're talking about.
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We have a system of checks and balances and free press. It's not perfect at rooting out lies, but it's a lot better than the alternatives.
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The Supreme Court seems to feel it's the job of voters to punish a sitting Prez, not the legal system because it may be misused for political reasons. Knowing how political DC is, I can see the logic in that.
Sense made (Score:5, Insightful)
I recall that there were a few cases concurrently with, or right before, the Huanan cluster that couldn't be linked to that market. Makes sense that they were perhaps linked to another market with a similar lack of hygiene.
As far as I know, this kind of trade in wild animals is still going on there, along with other places in Asia, and elsewhere. It's going to continue to be a disease vector as long as these practices continue, and there will at some point be a worse disease that comes out of it.
Our best guess is that AIDS made the species jump in a similar way. Interestingly, there's also a prominent conspiracy theory that it was made in a government lab. Before we knew what germs were, we just called plagues God's pestilence.
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Very, very unlikely. It would have meant for two rare occurrences to happen simultaneously. The credible explanation is that there is a link that was just not found.
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It doesn't add up. On the one hand the CCP is a nearly omnipotent and all powerful dictatorship, spying on everyone like something out of an Orwell novel and tending to disappear people for any infraction.
On the other hand they apparently either didn't know about or couldn't shut down a few live animal vendors.
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Our best guess is that AIDS made the species jump in a similar way.
Long as it wasn't a monkey doing the hokey-pokey, and something got turned around.
Re: Sense made (Score:2)
Can’t be (Score:2)
An article about covid origins without yelling about gain of function? Oh wait this isn’t Fox.
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Why do you watch/read Fox?
At this point who cares? (Score:1)
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It really does not matter today, what's done is done, but:
1) If it came from a wet market, the problem is probably intractable. China has been trying to cut those out for years, but people do what they want.
2) If it came from a lab by accident, then an investigation as to what in particular failed and what safety protocols need to be put in place for it not to happen again. In this case, you can't keep experimenting on dangerous things and kill millions by accident, you just cannot. So something has to be d
The actual root cause matters (Score:2)
Not that I'm opposed to preparation but it's hard to do. We need to expand the capacity of our medical system but the only way to do that is by expanding the number of people using it. You can't just have a bunch of beds lying around with no one trained and experienced in providing treatment. Ask yourself if you've writt
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Lets suppose that the virus was from the lab: Does this make it less likely that you will get the vaccine?
Lying less makes people trust you more. If you really care about vaccination rates, you would be pushing for honesty instead of continuing tribal political divisions.
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If it came from the lab, how does that change how we, as a society, combat the spread of the virus? Granted, if it came from the lab, then we need to make sure that this doesn't happen again, but the real issue is stopping the spread and ranting about where it came from only distracts from the real problem facing us today, the 30% that won't get the vaccine.
If this came from a wild animal species it's quite likely there's still a reservoir of the original virus out there and, as seems to happen with ebola, that there could be another cross-species transfer. In that case it would be sensible to invest in reducing contact between humans and whatever species SARS-COV-2 came from. If this came via a lab leak of an existing virus, for example related to sample collection, then maybe we need to review health and safety for lab workers. If this honestly came from gai
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The only people that really care where it came from are the scientists that study viruses.
People who want to test the veracity of people like Fauci would like to know, because if they lied, then they are not trustworthy. It provides insight into the character of people and institutions.
Meanwhile, in other cover ups (Score:5, Interesting)
Alabama hospitals have a negative capacity of ICU beds available [cnn.com], 28% of all new cases in Louisiana are from children under the age of 17, and nearly everyone in the ICU for covid is unvaccinated in Kansas.
As a side note, Orlando has asked residents to cut water use because of the desperate need for oxygen [businessinsider.com]. This at a time when Governor DeathSentence is funneling taxpayer money [chicagotribune.com] to one of his largest donors via the use of monoclonal antibody treatment in a vain attempt to help people after they've been infected rather than urging people to get vaccinated and wear masks to prevent them from getting infected in the first place. He's even going so far to kill off children and others by threatening to withhold money from school districts [npr.org] who impose a mask mandate for their schools.
So while this article is interesting and more or less confirms what we already knew, that covid came from an animal, the real news is Republican governors are doing all they can to increase the number of covid deaths in this country to use as a political foil for the midterm elections. Yesterday, the U.S. was just shy of 1,000 dead in one day from covid, up from around 250 per day less than two weeks ago.
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Sounds like news coming form a 2nd or 3rd world country ruled by fanatics that care no one bit about human life. Not good at all.
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Plutocracy (USA) == third world, by definition
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Look on the bright side, by doing so they will collectively raise the mean IQ of the entire nation, while proving that Charles Darwin was correct.
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Wow you're a fucking idiot. You do realize that the CDC is recommending the Regenron treatment as well? As for the mask mandate, children masking does not decrease transmission rates(adult masking being a different story as found by the same study) per a CDC study, but the lockdowns have caused a massive drop in infant IQs.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volum... [cdc.gov]?
https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
Re: Meanwhile, in other cover ups (Score:5, Informative)
I know you’re a dimwit troll but will a Fox affiliate reporting the story make you feel better? https://www.fox9.com/news/alab... [fox9.com]
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Vitamin D does however have a significant impact on inflammation, the mechanism by which C19 causes its worst damage.
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Re: Meanwhile, in other cover ups (Score:2)
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Re: Meanwhile, in other cover ups (Score:2)
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And if the OP had stated that they should promote Vit D and exercise instead of the vaccine you would have a point. He just noted that the only thing being promoted was the vaccine instead of both. Indeed, prior to the vaccine being available and thus not even an option, the medical community by and large ignored the benefits of Vit D levels and staying healthy, instead promoting staying shut in indoors.
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You obviously struggle with the word novel.
It means not seen before, or new.
No matter how well your immune system is, it does not recognize the coronavirus as a theat. Where have you been the last two years?
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A strong immune system will not allow infection to begin with.
Congratulations for somehow passing high school level biology without acquiring even a basic understanding of how your immune system works. It must have been quite a feat.
Conspiracy theories, government/media edition. (Score:1)
If your entire *government* subscribes to conspiracy theories, it's time to step back and overthink things a bit, guys ...
Like everywhere (Score:2)
"that at least two vendors there regularly sold live wild animals,"
An oyster bar? A lobster stand?
They only have a few wild animals around (Score:1)
So not a lab leak (Score:2, Insightful)
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You know that even with a team this would have been shelved as fake news in the end. I am wondering why on earth, the problem, has not been picked up by another team from any other country ? Is it because we believed on the first few reports from the mentioned country ? If that is the case then there is one problem there.. and we already know about this right ?
Why after having so much sick people in the news or seeing hospital built from thin air or seeing a massive province shutdown, country shut down aren
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Remember when the whole world was closing borders and reducing entries and exits from China, and then a politician in Italy started a "Hug the Chinese" Campaign to fight racism?
The world doesn't make sense because sense went out the window. Decisions arent made based on rational thought but purely by vendettas and personal agendas. Data's only brought into the equation when the question is "How will this affect my next quarterly report".
Your thinking and your hopes for the future are absolutely wise and on
Re: So not a lab leak (Score:2)
It sounds like.. (Score:2)
Totally irrelevant (Score:3)
With the earliest evidence of SARS-CoV-19 having been identified in Italy and France from samples takes as early as September 12, 2019, [nih.gov] what happened three months later in one of the many markets is totally irrelevant. The disease had been simmering for probably 4 months already at this time and had infected hundreds in Wuhan by December 2019.
Is that just another attempt by China to divert from what really happened?
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... With the earliest evidence of SARS-CoV-19 having been identified in Italy and France from samples takes as early as September 12, 2019, [nih.gov] what happened three months later in one of the many markets is totally irrelevant.
This paper has been cited before and the biggest problem with this paper is:
Received: October 28, 2020; Accepted: October 29, 2020
In a journal that is (co-) owned by the institute that hosts the scientist submitting the paper. Even if what they claim is true they massively weakened their argument by essentially self-publishing it without proper peer review (in a different journal).
Umm ok not much of a Cover-up (Score:2)
Not very convincing (Score:1)
The lab-leak theory still seems much more plausible. This article seems like an another attempt to cover-up the truth.
Wet Market Exists due to Food Chain Issues (Score:2)
It's not just wildlife in these markets; live, normal food animals are also available here.
Tha main reason that these places exist is because many Chinese don't trust packaged goods. Recent Chinese history is rife with vendors substituting one kind of meat for another; just a while ago there was a problem where people bleaching and flavoring fox meat and selling it as lamb. Just search for "Chinese food scandals."
So in China, many people want to see the actual animal slaughtered in front of them, so they ca
Just more mud in the water (Score:1)
Just more mud in the water, this type of investigation does not bring us closer to the truth but further away. You could argue that is exactly what the intention of this type of investigation is. Any investigation that is not looking deeply into the Lab(s) at Wuhan is not looking for the truth.
misinformation (Score:1)
Re: No bats (Score:1)
Horseshoe bats are tiny, about as big as your thumb.
I guess they could use them as a pizza topping ?
You're right though, all roads in this pandemic lead back to the monstrous CCP acting to cover up the truth.
Tiki Torch Virus (Score:2)
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>The weight of the evidence suggests that COVID-19 was funded by the US and built in a lab in China.
This is a bit different from typical case though, normally only manufacturing is moved to China from US, but in this case the R&D too..
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The weight of the evidence suggests that COVID-19 was funded by the US and built in a lab in China.
Show the evidence if it's so great. Thus far, there is zero evidence [livescience.com] it came from a lab [acsh.org].
You're the one making the claim. Put up or shut up.
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It should also be notes that the OP doesn't know the difference between the virus and the disease that results. He's not exactly a critical thinker.
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And why would you note that? What exactly are you trying to say?
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He's not exactly a critical thinker.
I thought it was clear.
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You linked to old articles that have since been debunked, again showing your lack of searching ability. I linked some evidence elsewhere, but here is a piece [nih.gov]. But I expect you are closed minded and will say, "That's not evidence"
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You linked to old articles that have since been debunked, again showing your lack of searching ability. I linked some evidence elsewhere, but here is a piece [nih.gov]. But I expect you are closed minded and will say, "That's not evidence"
No, those articles are not debunked. In fact, the second article expressly points out another article which claimed covid came from a lab as being debunked.
Further, the article you linked to says nothing about covid coming from a lab. What it does talk about is animals being known reservoirs of novel coronaviruses. The study aims to research how these viruses are transmitted from wildlife-human interactions.
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Further, the article you linked to says nothing about covid coming from a lab.
Your reading comprehension is bad.
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Show the evidence
COVID-19 doesn't spread well outside, its genetic composition is hard to determine and it originated in the only city in the world where they allow gain-of-function research and 200 miles north of where bats live. Those are all factors that you wouldn't expect in a natural virus but you would expect in a virus that is the result of gain-of-function research. Your move...if you don't know about this argument by now, the problem is with you.
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The report is an important piece of evidence. It lists every animal species that was found in all of the animal markets in Wuhan. Ideally the CCP would have collected this evidence before destroying the animals, but they didn't.
After the report, the virologist Stephen Goldstein hypothesized that the virus could have mutated at a different market, or between markets. The reason for creating this hypothesis is because the virus clearly didn't evolve in the Wuhan wet market.
So the next research step is to look
Re: And the Chinese name for red herring is? (Score:1)
The due date for the DOJ investigation is in two weeks. Something tells me that report is going to come up empty. Call me cynical, they've earned it.
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Why is the DOJ investigating medical issues?
Re: And the Chinese name for red herring is? (Score:3)
Because presumably the US government would like to know where COVID came from, thank you very much. One imagines not for merely medical reasons.