Experts Are Puzzled Over Why the Coronavirus Lingers in Some Asymptomatic Patients For as Long as 40 Days (latimes.com) 218
Shashank Bengali, reporting for Los Angeles Times: By his second day in the hospital with COVID-19, Charles Pignal's mild cough and 102-degree fever had disappeared. Bored and "bouncing off the walls" of his room in the isolation ward at Singapore's National Center for Infectious Diseases, he felt like he could go out and play a set of tennis. The 42-year-old footwear executive told his mother on the phone, "I'll be out of here in a couple of days." But Pignal would test positive for the coronavirus for five more weeks, despite developing no further symptoms. He wasn't released until the 40th day after he first fell ill, when he finally tested negative two days in a row. Cases like his are coming under increasing scrutiny as medical researchers worldwide puzzle over why the coronavirus -- which typically lasts about two to three weeks in the body -- appears to endure longer in some patients, even relatively young, healthy ones.
With studies showing that asymptomatic patients can transmit the SARS-CoV-2 virus, understanding how the virus leaves the body is among the most urgent mysteries facing researchers as governments in the United States and across the world begin to reopen their economies. Although studies show that the average recovery time from COVID-19 is two weeks, and nearly all patients are virus-free within a month, "less than 1% to 2%, for reasons that we do not know, continue to shed virus after that," said Hsu Li Yang, a physician specializing in infectious diseases at the Saw Swee Hock School of Public Health at the National University of Singapore. In recent weeks, China and South Korea have reported that some patients who had recovered from COVID-19 tested positive again in follow-up visits. In extreme cases, patients in the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the outbreak began late last year, reportedly tested positive 70 days after recovery. Doctors in both countries said they didn't believe the patients had been reinfected, a worrisome possibility because of its implications for building widespread immunity to a disease for which there is no vaccine. They also had no evidence that the patients had infected others.
With studies showing that asymptomatic patients can transmit the SARS-CoV-2 virus, understanding how the virus leaves the body is among the most urgent mysteries facing researchers as governments in the United States and across the world begin to reopen their economies. Although studies show that the average recovery time from COVID-19 is two weeks, and nearly all patients are virus-free within a month, "less than 1% to 2%, for reasons that we do not know, continue to shed virus after that," said Hsu Li Yang, a physician specializing in infectious diseases at the Saw Swee Hock School of Public Health at the National University of Singapore. In recent weeks, China and South Korea have reported that some patients who had recovered from COVID-19 tested positive again in follow-up visits. In extreme cases, patients in the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the outbreak began late last year, reportedly tested positive 70 days after recovery. Doctors in both countries said they didn't believe the patients had been reinfected, a worrisome possibility because of its implications for building widespread immunity to a disease for which there is no vaccine. They also had no evidence that the patients had infected others.
PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and dead (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the known issues with PCR tests is that it can't distinguish between Live and Dead cells. So, the Covid19 cells detected could be dead virus, including leftover pieces of the virus that the body already killed off.
Re:PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and de (Score:4, Informative)
It is possible to do that in a proper lab where you wipe the DNA slate clean with DNAse before reverse transcription of the RNA to amplify it via PCR. A basic rapid test does not do that. It just shoves the sample into the machine and assumes the only thing which will be amplified is whatever was reverse - transcribed.
Re:PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and de (Score:5, Informative)
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It is down to the genes of the individuals involved. Just like some people run faster than others due to genetic advantages, so the reaction rates of their immune systems differ. How fast and how much their immune systems react to an infection based upon the degree of infection, will vary from individual to individual. So a virus not causing much harm, is largely ignored by some immune systems, simply because the negative reaction is insufficient to generate a immune response to tackle the infection, so the
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I guess infected cells can still release the virus long after the infection has worn off, but the immune system will kill most viruses before they can leave the body.
Re: PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and d (Score:2)
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More conclusive tests involve directly detecting the viral particle. That's far more difficult than antibody or PCR tests. It does demonstrate the weakness in the argument "more testing!" because antibody tests cannot, at least in some cases, tell the difference between COVID-19 and some other coronaviruses, and since the common cold hasn't disappeared during the pandemic, you could potentially distort infection rates higher.
The more sensible thing to do is to randomly pick people from the general populatio
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I'd be pretty pissed if they messed up testing and kept me locked up for 40 days. You would think after the symptoms went away, they'd try a test that was more conclusive...
You have to think about how this evolved. A couple months ago, they didn't know how long it took someone to become symptomatic after initial exposure. We kept hearing wide ranging numbers. And even then, if you were asymptomatic, how long could you be spreading the virus? Hindsight doesn't help in the early stages.
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Re: PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and d (Score:2)
Why don't they test the ability of a sample to infect in vitro on a cell culture? They are testing medicines in vitro so they must have the capability.
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Re: PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and (Score:2)
AFAICS you can tweak the sensitivity of the PCR test. So maybe you could reduce it not to trigger on destroyed viral parts swabbed on the culture, but do trigger if the virus proliferates in the cell culture simply because there is then so much more RNA?
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As the lungs open up again after a serious case of covid19 they release a lot of corona virus snippets which will indeed be detected as virus.
This case is interesting in a different manner though: the patient is asymptomatic.
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Well, it'd be more accurate to say that PCR can't distinguish between viable non-viable virus, since viruses don't have cells and don't have their own physiology to be alive with.
Even so, that's unlikely to be the cause. Why would the patient's body be shedding viral RNA for weeks after the infection cleared? Why would it linger longer than any other virus's RNA or DNA? Anyhow, if it were the case that the body was shedding inactive virus this'll be cleaned up right away. Someone will do a Vero cell cultu
Re:PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and de (Score:5, Informative)
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Yup!
Flu deaths are "estimates" and best guesses.
Covid19 deaths are deaths verified by testing. People who are already dead are generally not tested for Covid19. We can't spare the tests on dead people.
https://blogs.scientificameric... [scientificamerican.com]
"âoeI want you to understand something that shocked me when I saw it,â he (Trump) said. âoeThe flu, in our country, kills from 25,000 people to 69,000 people a year. That was shocking to me.â
His (Trump's) point was to suggest that the coronavirus was no
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The interesting part is that in Germany, there are no excess deaths so far compared to the previous years. Considering that staying at home has stopped both the actual flu and a lot of traffic deaths it means that the flu deaths (as in "the coronavirus can't be that bad, the flu kills tens of thousands") were heavily overestimated.
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"Covid19 deaths are deaths verified by testing."
How many "Covid 19" deaths are of people who happen to test positive but the actual cause of death is something else? For example, my own mother has tested positive but is completely asymptomatic. She was sent to the hospital for a completely unrelated issue, that was life threatening. If she died from that, would it be another Covid statistic? There have already been articles indicating hospitals are inflating the Covid death stats.
FACT Check
https://www.u [usatoday.com]
Re: PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and d (Score:2)
For sure in some countries the "prep" for third party funding definitely involves attribution to COVID-19 of any possibile death.
Get the numbers up !
We want bailouts from (pick your agency).
I'm not pretending COVID isn't serious. I'm merely suggesting it's being used politically much more than people are happy to admit.
Re:PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and de (Score:5, Funny)
Wife: Does this dress make me look fat?
Husband: The dress is not the problem.
Cause of death: COVID-19.
Re: PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and d (Score:2)
Re:PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and de (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, the flu season is only about 3 months long. So, yeah, it does its killing in about the same time as COVID-19 has, so far.
Mind you, the "so far" is significant. How significant, we'll find out over the next few years....
Re:PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and de (Score:4, Insightful)
From the CDC:
October-March, which is typical in my region of the US, is 6 months.
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Of course, the flu season is only about 3 months long. So, yeah, it does its killing in about the same time as COVID-19 has, so far.
Read this [scientificamerican.com].
Short version:
* Flu statistics are also estimates.
* Most medial professionals couldn't tell you the last time they saw a death from flu.
* Pneumonia deaths are included in CDC "flu" statistics.
In the last six flu seasons, the CDC’s reported number of actual confirmed flu deaths—that is, counting flu deaths the way we are currently counting deaths from the coronavirus—has ranged from 3,448 to 15,620, which far lower than the numbers commonly repeated by public officials and even public health experts.
...
If we compare, for instance, the number of people who died in the United States from COVID-19 in the second full week of April to the number of people who died from influenza during the worst week of the past seven flu seasons (as reported to the CDC), we find that the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu. In other words, the coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse.
If we're going to compare it to the flue we need to use the right numbers.
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Just like influenza, it is an airborne virus with high survivability and very high infection rates, any particle leaving a person which has been in contact with their skin and it's secretions will get coated with the virus to then float in the air until the next person hundreds of metres away inhales it.
The fun part about the mask, is people were screaming about facial recognition and now corona virus is making face mask acceptable. This will make police really schizophrenic, on the one hand they like the
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That's why we make a difference between
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Isn't it a bit bizarre to go on a big pedantic rant about accuracy and then call it sars2?
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I'd say he's someone in need of cognitive therapy. Fixations on definitions, an inability to recognize nuance or metaphor, we all know what that signals, and we know those with that neurological condition, often quite intelligent, end up in computing fields.
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The alleged U.S. administration's culture accelerated the propagation of the coronavirus within the U.S.
"Hug a Chinese person!"
"Go out to eat in Chinatown!"
"China travel ban is racist!"
Those unbelievably-irresponsible bordering on the criminally-negligent public statements putting the public in danger and almost certainly causing unnecessary deaths did not come from the administration.
Physician, heal thyself!
Strat
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Sorry but what you wrote is horseshit. There was no higher risk in the USA of eating in Chinatown or hugging a Chinese person than eating at Pappa Joes or hugging Kid Rock while he wears his American flag pants.
As for the travel ban being racist. It was. If it wasn't Trump would have actually banned travel to and from China, instead of banning travel from a subset of people to and from China. 490,000 had no problem travelling to and from China simply because they were white and had some red white and blue e
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"As for the travel ban being racist. It was. If it wasn't Trump would have actually banned travel to and from China, instead of banning travel from a subset of people to and from China."
American citizens were allowed to repatriate and asked to quarantine. Did you expect that we would force them to stay out of the country?...I don't think that's even legal. And then he placed a ban on travel from Europe, so fuck you and your race baiting. Just because it's Trump...and no, I'm not a supporter of him you fu
Re:PCR Tests don't distinguish between live and de (Score:5, Insightful)
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Except that wouldn't have done much:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0... [nytimes.com]
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There's all sorts of ways to do this and that and I've thought about them myself, but the reality is you can't put the genie back in the bottle. If we had completely stopped all travel from anywhere and kept even one case from entering the US, unless you plan to enact such measures FOREVER, in 3-4 years a single person could come into the country infected and the now you're playing whack-a-mole again.
The reality is that this disease is easily transmissible and has a long time before one shows symptoms - if
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Since there's strong evidence that infections began before we had even fully understood there was a novel virus in the wild, about the most closing borders or placing arrivals in quarantine would have done is delayed the inevitable. It might actually have been worse. If the virus didn't start to seriously propagate until this summer, we might have had a pandemic smack dab in the middle of the more predictable cold and flu season, making recognizing COVID-19 infections from influenza and other coronavirus in
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Of the myriad of bad statements from Trump, the "anybody who wants a test gets a test" doesn't strike me as a source of recklessness (though it makes a good "read my lips, no new taxes" sort of quote). The availability or unavailability of a test isn't going to help my prognosis, so I don't see why that statement should have inspired me to alter my behavior.
The whole "it's just a flu" sentiment, "it's just a China problem", and "LIBERATE MICHIGAN" are far more problematic.
Inadequate test methods (Score:5, Informative)
China and South Korea have reported that some patients who had recovered from COVID-19 tested positive again in follow-up visits. In extreme cases, patients in the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the outbreak began late last year, reportedly tested positive 70 days after recovery.
I thought this was due to the imprecise method used to test for COVID-19. The test looks for a polymerase chain reaction which cannot distinguish between genetic material from a current active infection or just virus debris or inactive fragments (ie. dead soldiers) that can linger in the body long after a person recovers.
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My guess... (Score:5, Interesting)
With sensory loss (taste/smell) being one symptom, maybe it's getting into nerve cells which have a much slowerr growth cycle; Rabies/Shingles can linger for a long time.
https://www.ninds.nih.gov/diso... [nih.gov]
"Shingles is the reactivation of a viral infection in the nerves to the skin that causes pain, burning, or a tingling sensation, along with an itch and blisters in the skin supplied by the affected nerve. It is caused by the varicella zoster virus[1], or VZV—the same virus that causes chickenpox. When the itchy red spots of childhood chickenpox disappear, the virus remains in a dormant state in our nerve cells, ready to strike again in later life. This second eruption of the chickenpox virus is called shingles or herpes-zoster. "
https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/tra... [cdc.gov]
"From numerous studies conducted on rabid dogs, cats, and ferrets, we know that when the rabies virus is introduced into a muscle through a bite from another animal, it travels from the site of the bite to the brain by moving within nerves. The animal does not appear ill during this time.
The time between the bite and the appearance of symptoms is called the incubation period and it may last for weeks to months. A bite by the animal during the incubation period does not carry a risk of rabies because the virus has not yet made it to the saliva."
Covid-19 could be an ongoing nightmare for even the 'asymptomatic' people for months, years, or even decades to come.
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I'm interested in seeing the cancer rates soon (Score:2, Interesting)
Chicken Pox lingers for life (Score:5, Insightful)
And occasionally pops up again as shingles when you're physically a bit low. Viruses have had a billion years of evolution behind them to become extremely adept at what they do.
Coronaviruses != herpesviruses (Score:4, Informative)
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Hosts have been around for those billions of years too. And without living hosts, the virus would have perished. The hosts are very adept at what they do.
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Viruses have had a billion years of evolution behind them to become extremely adept at what they do.
So have we.
Re:Chicken Pox lingers for life (Score:5, Insightful)
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I keep seeing this exact trope appear in different online venues. Someone must be pushing this "we already have herd immunity" thing, but I don't know who.
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I keep seeing this exact trope appear in different online venues. Someone must be pushing this "we already have herd immunity" thing, but I don't know who.
Everyone that wants to reopen because of inconvenience, economy, or politics.
You see this with climate change denialists also, the denial goes in stages
Stage 1 - there is no problem - "It's just a flu"
Stage 2 - there is a problem, but there is nothing we can do - "Everyone will eventually get it!"
Stage 3 - there is a problem, but it is too late to do anything now - "Most people already had it!"
The common theme to all stages is "there is no need to do anything".
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Re:Chicken Pox lingers for life (Score:4, Funny)
"and you cant survive for long hiding in your house for the rest of your life"
Of course you can. You can hide in your house for the rest of your life.
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Right.
You can be dipped in pork fat and hide in a small enclosure full of hungry tigers for the rest of your life.
Re: Chicken Pox lingers for life (Score:2)
It's not like corona is a complete unknown, we don't lockdown the world for every new animal born influenza. Each one could have some completely new effect just as easily.
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It's not just a matter of convenience, the shutdown is killing people too, mainly by interrupting normal medical care, and via afflictions of poverty/despair. Plenty of suck to go around either way.
Re:Chicken Pox lingers for life (Score:5, Insightful)
This shows you how irresponsible some people can be when it comes to their convenience vs other peoples' health.
And some people think its fine to shut down large portions of the economy on scanty evidence it will produce measurably better outcomes. As many as 40% of small business may not survive. This show you how irresponsible some people can be when it comes to their fears vs other peoples' livelihoods.
See that argument works both ways.
Imagine you'd spent the last 2, 5, 10, 20, or 30 years building your business and you get told you will have to close up and enjoy zero revenue while you carry all kinds of ruinous costs because a virus which might very well yet prove to not have a mortality rate all that much higher than a really bad flu year. Where it could easily be the case that medical systems are never overwhelmed and so ass tragic as the loss of life is, stay-at-homes are shown to have done little but shift those deaths from spring to summer. What if vaccines prove to be ineffective or minimally effective? What if the virus mutates like flu into many strains and we can't control it effective ever, we have seen it jump from animals to people and back to at least cats in the space of year! So this is a real possibility.
This thing is hard to control - yes asymptomatic people can be contagious, but its also true if you are asymptomatic you are not caughing and dripping and spreading it all over - so you are almost certainly less contagious. Measures like use of masks and gloves, and distancing probably are pretty effective at preventing communication among the asymptomatic in situations that allow those things. So there were and are many opportunities to address this by keeping at-risk-persons out of situations where these things are not possible. There was enormous room to do things like ask people to wear masks, ask them to social distance, suggest they avoid unnecessary air travel etc. Without closing things down. We might have arranged meal delivery for more seniors, and people with immune or respiratory illness, we could have staff in long term care facilities use more PPE, we could have monitored them for fever and mandated PTO for anyone over 98.6 etc. All of this stuff *could* have been with far more minimal economic impact.
Here we are now stuff is closed, my local Lowe's store is packed! Why because its one of the few places in town that still open so people are buying stuff there they would have other places. People are all doing projects because there is nothing else to do. Its big open store that distancing should work well in but its IMPOSSIBLE to stay 6 feet from other these days. From a contact tracing perspective its a disaster. Get diagnosed where all have you been? - The grocery store and home store like EVERYONE ELSE in town has now. Same thing with parks. Trail system is closed (because everone would have to cross the foot bridge) but picnic areas are not - hmm what do think the effect of that is? Given that why can't the toy shop owner be open? At least where I live people are very frustrated because the very rules put in place to keep us apart are in many many cases forcing us to congregate in fewer places. Because some know-it-all types 150 miles away think we don't try to manage this smartly or us hayseeds are too thick think and act for our own good. We are not. We can talk to our neighbors who work at the community hospital - we know the beds are empty we know the adminstration believes that can increase the number of beds 50% of the licensed amount safely if the need arises. We can see the measures in place are both actively preventing us from controlling the spread and doing enormous harm at the same time - you bet that makes people angry.
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As many as 40% of small business may not survive.
Implying that they would have survived without the lockdown? You can just look to places where restrictions are easing on how the virus affects people. Many businesses were struggling with patronage even before the lockdown.
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Imagine a world where people didn't place money before infecting people with diseases and potentially killing them.
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Imagine you'd spent the last 2, 5, 10, 20, or 30 years building your business and you get told you will have to close up and enjoy zero revenue while you carry all kinds of ruinous costs because a virus which might very well yet prove to not have a mortality rate all that much higher than a really bad flu year.
Imagine the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu per week. Because it does [scientificamerican.com].
In the last six flu seasons, the CDC’s reported number of actual confirmed flu deaths—that is, counting flu deaths the way we are currently counting deaths from the coronavirus—has ranged from 3,448 to 15,620, which far lower than the numbers commonly repeated by public officials and even public health experts.
...
If we compare, for instance, the number of people who died in the United States from COVID-19 in the second full week of April to the number of people who died from influenza during the worst week of the past seven flu seasons (as reported to the CDC), we find that the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu. In other words, the coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse.
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I'll observe that is PRECISELY what we do with chickenpox: we want kids to get it early in life because avoiding it is nearly impossible so better to get through it and get it over with when you're young and the risk of complication/danger is extremely low.
Given the infection rate of COVID19 aka Wuhan Flu, avoiding getting it in the larger scale seems pretty unlikely.
You sound pretty angry, which probably suggests an emotional investment in this that's clouding an otherwise reasonable judgement.
It's social (Score:2)
Maybe it wants to meet new people.
Interesting (Score:2)
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Reservoir-dogs (Score:2)
For the next wave.
40 Days and 40 Nights? (Score:2, Interesting)
I can make you a man! (Score:2)
Well, 7 days... [youtube.com]
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ha! history, politics, economics all shaped by those fairy tales, part of every war.
I only know one thing (Score:3)
Right now, the whole world is upside down. And for that, Australians are grateful.
It shouldn't be a mystery... (Score:2)
If you think about it, a big element is the body response to the virus when it comes to symptoms. So, what if the body doesn't respond to the virus, no symptoms show up, even though it is there. For those with a strong immune system, the body may stamp the virus out, for those with a weak immune system, they will show symptoms and it will linger on for a longer period of time.
So, what about those in the middle, not terribly strong or weak? The symptoms come from a reaction that the body has to the vir
Chicken Pox and Shingles (Score:3)
Not that it is directly related, but it isn't unheard of for viruses to hang out dormant in the body for decades. It seems very plausible for some people to naturally "shed" viruses after being sick for weeks. Maybe they do it for all colds and whatnot, and only now with the crazy testing is it being discovered.
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I watched this to see what the fuss was about, and yeh, it's pretty much spot on. I find is hilariously ironic all these republicans whining that China lied about it, given their on-the-knees fealty to grab-them-by-the-pussy-trump and his continuous flow of bullshit. And from the looks, they apparently hate being shown his lies.... poor little cultist snowflakes.
Two wrongs don't make a right. It would be similar to how I've heard for the past 3 years that any Republican is a moron for having a mentally incompetent president. Then the D side nominates Joe Biden. Now Joe Biden's mental incompetence doesn't excuse Trumps, it merely means both D and R have blind spots in their selection process. For those with integrity, wrong is wrong regardless of who does it. Was China a bad actor? Clearly they were as they lied early and often. Saying that doesn't make other
Re:yeh but..... (Score:4)
Re: Please Be Gentle (Score:2)
Here is what a quick google turned up: https://www.news-medical.net/n... [news-medical.net]
Re: Please Be Gentle (Score:4, Funny)
I'm just here for the "lunch mob". What, do they throw PB&J sandwiches at you? Steal your lunch money? Make you clean tables?
Personally I'm picturing "west side story" dance fight, but with plastic knives and hair nets.
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I'm imagining a bunch of Reddit mods raiding the all-you-can-eat buffet.
That sight would put the fear of god into any restaurant owner. As if the lockdown wasn't hard enough on them already ...
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Fat cells can be infected by COVID-19, because adipose cells do have ACE2 receptors. But I'd expect fat cells infected by COVID-19 to die from COVID-19 just like any other cells, not wait to die until you lose weight.
Re:Please Be Gentle (Score:5, Informative)
I believe the word you don't know you're looking for is "reservoir". If you search for "coronavirus reservoir" you should find papers and speculation that lead further into your rabbit hole. There are some reservoir candidates suspected by some. We know so little about this virus today that almost anything is still possible. We can really only pray that there is not some long-term effect that kills or disables victims at a later date. We don't know yet.
A well-known example of another virus that has a reservoir is varicella, the virus that causes chickenpox. It hides in sensory-nerve ganglia and can reactivate at a later time as "shingles", acting much differently because it is confined by the immune system that is still present within the body.
A reservoir is simply a place in the body where for some reason (different for different viruses), the body's immune system can't eliminate it. It may or may not be causing ongoing issues while in this reservoir depending on what the reservoir does and how it is affecting the cells there.
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Searching for corona virus reservoir will mostly point you to animal / host reservoirs within an ecosystem, at least my search did.
I think an easier way to search or go to wikipedia is latent virus or latency:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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I'm not a medic either, I am a big House MD fan too though, and I remember that episode.
A virus needs to enter a cell, and infect it with its RNA, to turn the cell into a factory to clone more copies of itself.
I think with CV19 the ideal cells for reproduction are found in the airways, lungs etc which is why it has been so successful in spreading itself.
For it to get into the fat it would have to ignore those prime breeding grounds and find its way to the fatty areas of the body then work its way in there a
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If Quincy were still around he would have solved this in 35 minutes tops. Then explain it to everyone how it worked in simple terms in under 10 minutes.
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If Quincy were still around he would have solved this in 35 minutes tops. Then explain it to everyone how it worked in simple terms in under 10 minutes.
But first he'd have to go undercover at a rave.
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One of my colleagues has Lyme's disease, which is a classic instance of a slowly reproducing bacterium (Borellia) remaining in cells, only to re-appear when the host is stressed, for example by a viral infection. Some strains of malaria are also recurrent, so this kind of behaviour is not unknown.
However, so far as we can tell the Covid-19 virus is adapted to infect the lining of the respiratory tract. The cellular turnover in the respiratory tract is quite high. For example cells in the walls of the alveo
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The variants of the herpes family of viruses typically behave like that.
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You're absolutely right. It's purely economy vs lives. You either care about money or saving lives. If it saves even one more life, it is worth destroying millions of jobs and incomes, both here and abroad. Either be part of the solution and support draconian government authority and hazmat suits in public or else you are a part of the problem. ... or maybe, just maybe... i could open my mind to nuance, complexity, and diversity of perspectives...
No, no, no, who am i kidding. I would sound like a crazy pers
Re: Do more studies (Score:2)
reductio ad absurdum.
With no economy, there are no services to care for the sick.
Grow a brain
Re: Do more studies (Score:2)
At least I think that's what you meant to say
Re: Do more studies (Score:4, Insightful)
I start to wonder if I've been wrong and there is a God (or at least a sentient Universe) and it sent this disaster to cull the herd of all the idiots like these.
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Which proves that bats are much further up the evolutionary chain than we previously thought.