As Coronavirus Spreads, Poison Hotlines See Rise In Accidents With Cleaning Products (nytimes.com) 88
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times: A study released Monday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that calls to poison hotlines this year for cases involving cleaners and disinfectants rose significantly compared with the same period over the previous two years, and charts a dramatic spike in March for both categories. Some of the physicians who collaborated on the research with the C.D.C. had discussed their observations with one another last month. "I was like: 'Am I the only one seeing a big increase in exposures to these disinfectants?'" said Dr. Diane P. Calello, the medical director of the New Jersey Poison Information and Education System, and one of the authors of the report.
Others saw the same trend, and wondered if the accidental poisonings were an insidious, secondary result of the coronavirus's spread. The group initiated the study to determine if there was a possible link between the rise in exposures and the recommendations from public health agencies to clean and disinfect as much as possible. From January through March, poison centers received 45,550 exposure calls related to cleaners (28,158) and disinfectants (17,392), the report said, representing overall increases of 20.4 percent compared with the same period in 2019 and 16.4 percent more than 2018. The authors warned that the actual number of exposures was likely even higher because the data only came from reported calls for help, and some people who were exposed probably did not report their cases to the hotlines.
Others saw the same trend, and wondered if the accidental poisonings were an insidious, secondary result of the coronavirus's spread. The group initiated the study to determine if there was a possible link between the rise in exposures and the recommendations from public health agencies to clean and disinfect as much as possible. From January through March, poison centers received 45,550 exposure calls related to cleaners (28,158) and disinfectants (17,392), the report said, representing overall increases of 20.4 percent compared with the same period in 2019 and 16.4 percent more than 2018. The authors warned that the actual number of exposures was likely even higher because the data only came from reported calls for help, and some people who were exposed probably did not report their cases to the hotlines.
Consider it (Score:1, Funny)
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Also misspelled fish pool.
Our immune systems make bleach (Score:2)
You might be entertained by this: Our immune systems make the active ingredient in bleach [nih.gov].
No need to drink bleach to make that happen, though, if you were wondering. I don't want to prompt any more calls to emergency hotlines.
Clarification (Score:1)
So, we're differentiating an "accident" based on the size of the expression of DNA/RNA that is killed?
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Dibs.
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Drinking a gallon of bleach permanently cures and provides permanent immunity against all viruses, including the current coronavirus.
What about a quick gargle after popping outside for supplies?
I guess this is news? (Score:2, Informative)
But it smells more like one of several weird attempts to conflate the big story of the day, Covid-19 with various non-contagious causes of death to downplay the scope of the pandemic.
In other words, it seems like spin - any spin - that can be thrown at the wall as we approach the period of very heavy deaths.
All while members of one party here in the USA are pushing to ignore mitigation strategies and act like the pandemic is already over.
Listen - yes, we're having an increase in poison hotline cases, becaus
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Probably more people have not had car accidents than have died from cov2 infection, in the US anyway... And by the time you add in the lockdown babies, pretty sure the overall pop will rise. So not a really impressive plague overall...
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So, COVID-19 is pretty spectacularly bad, and it can cause damage to all sorts of organs, which doesn't bode well for long term life expectancy, even if you survive the infection. Having damaged kidneys is a pretty substantial setback, health-wise.
https://www.sciencemag.org/new... [sciencemag.org]
But one of the reasons why it may take longer to clear in men is because there are lots of ACE-2 binding sites in the testicles, and it might be causing damage to them.
https://bgr.com/2020/04/21/cor... [bgr.com]
So hold off on the quarantine
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That is easily disproven. There have been 45,373 Covid deaths, vs 38,800 for all of 2019. So, the shutdown certainly has not prevented 45k car deaths in the last 5 weeks.
Looking at deaths regardless of source (i.e. net of covid deaths minus any it prevented), I don't have that nationally, but here it is for NYC - wow:
https://www.nytimes.com/intera... [nytimes.com]
Of course that won't be as true nationally, but
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The only real argument I see against the shutdown is that the deaths will still happen eventually, unless there is some miracle like discovering an existing drug that treats it.
There's likely lots of cases like Boris's where with some oxygen he recovered whereas if no oxygen due to overwhelmed heath system, he may well of died.
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Indeed. And during a Pandemic, when cleaning with chlorine, people add a half pound of Vitamin C to the bucket, because it helps against viruses.
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Interesting article (and not behind a paywall) (Score:5, Interesting)
The call centers also did not record information about the reasons for an exposure — whether, for instance, it was because of a direct concern over the coronavirus.
That's a good point. Increased awareness and discussion of disinfectants has led me to tackle some chores, like cleaning out an under-sink cabinet that has had a mold problem since before I moved in. Not coronavirus-related.
an adult woman... mixed bleach and vinegar in hot water in her kitchen sink to wash the food. The mixture of bleach and vinegar created chlorine gas, which the woman inhaled.
It's a shame nobody told her the right ratios, or not to use hot water. Hypochlorous acid is by far the best disinfectant available at home. It's what I used for the above mentioned mold remediation. I used pH paper to decide how much vinegar to add, and knew I had the right mix when it immediately bleached the paper before I could see any color change. Hypochlorous acid is even good in a first aid kit as a strong and biocompatible wound rinse (150-250 ppm, sealed tightly, replaced periodically).
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Hypochlorous acid is even good in a first aid kit as a strong and biocompatible wound rinse (150-250 ppm, sealed tightly, replaced periodically).
Hypochlorous acid is often used in root canal procedures to kill off bacteria that cause inflammation at the apex of a root.
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Hypochlorous acid is often used in root canal procedures to kill off bacteria that cause inflammation at the apex of a root.
I'm not surprised. And this is gonna sound weird, but I'd really like to know if it's effective in mouthwash. Chlorine dioxide does wonders in miniscule amounts--it gives fresh breath for hours. There are both papers and commercial products that show ClO2 effectiveness, but I don't know about the safety or effectiveness of using hypochlorous acid. It just seems like it should work, but that is poor excuse to experiment on oneself.
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I don't think it's a good idea to use it as a mouthwash, chlorine penetrates mucous membranes and it will probably cause damage to actual tissue over time. But I know people who are using it for armpit anti-odor wipes.
Thanks for that. But something else to consider is that HOCl is endogenous compound, so our tissue may be able to deal with it. It deserves research. I did find a couple studies about it, but they did not address safety or long term effects.
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Hypochlorous acid, even dilute, is *strongly* corrosive to any ferrous metal. In addition to what "overly enthusiastic" mixing of the stuff does to you lungs, what it's going to do to you sink and pipes is pretty bad.
Virus Calls (Score:1)
I have access to poison control data for certain areas. The number of calls have tripled if not quadrupled since early march.
Most of the excess calls are people calling poison control hotlines for cornoavirus. I have no idea what they think poison control can do about it.
Dumbass people.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Certain people (all female) got the bright idea to add bleach to ALL the other cleaning stuff, because "bleach kills germs!"... ummm... well yea but....
Oh, fuck it. I'm not in charge of these fools and I don't have time for this shit. (leaves the area)
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"That's the recipe for Mustard Gas!" -Hank Hill
Re: Dumbass people.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people know not to mix bleach and ammonia, but few realize you shouldn't mix bleach with dish soap, which have additives that release the chlorine. This not only is toxic, it neutralizes bleach's disinfecting power. Laundry detergent is formulated to be used with bleach.
In any case it's gilding the lilly. People just can't wrap their brains around how effective soap is, because it's so commonplace.
As for the people concocting dubious cleaning potions being women, I don't think that's women knowing less chemistry than men. I think that's women doing more cleaning than men.
Re: Dumbass people.... (Score:5, Interesting)
People just can't wrap their brains around how effective soap is...
This, this times a billion. This is so frustrating for me to explain to people. The CDC, WHO, and other official sources have it right. Wash with soap & water regularly. And avoid touching face with unwashed hands. But then you get down into HR, Legal, Labor, stores, companies, social media,.....
They all changed the message to "Frequently wash and disinfect your hands." and "Never touch your face." NO NO you bloody morons! Don't even regularly disinfect your hands! You are going to destroy them!! Just wash with soap before touching your face. Or wash your face if you do other wise! Now we have everyone jumping on antibacterial, hardcore, alcohol laddened, heavily perfumed, toxic crap multiple times a day.
Side note: Its funny, we used to say "wash with warm soapy water" in the past. But I guess now that we are global, not everyone has ready access to "warm" water. And I bet someone did a study that the benefits of warm water weren't worth the number of people who skipped/delayed washing due to not having it right then. I wonder if someone will do a study on how the COVID-19 generations had much more wrinkled & dry hands in old age.
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They all changed the message to "Frequently wash and disinfect your hands." and "Never touch your face." NO NO you bloody morons! Don't even regularly disinfect your hands! You are going to destroy them... I wonder if someone will do a study on how the COVID-19 generations had much more wrinkled & dry hands in old age.
Having done a fair bit of washing and sanitizing my hands over the years (and also formulating most of this stuff), natural soap causes me irritation, detergents are fine, and sanitizer is moisturizing/soothing. What makes you think alcohol-based sanitizer destroys skin? (No straw-man, please: every sanitizer formulation I have seen includes an emollient.)
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Most people know not to mix bleach and ammonia, but few realize you shouldn't mix bleach with dish soap, which have additives that release the chlorine. This not only is toxic, it neutralizes bleach's disinfecting power.
Can you give any more details on this? In non-home settings, surfactants are added to bleach all the time. What's the problem with the surfactants in dish soap? I've been doing it for years, mainly when I refill an expensive spray bottle of bleach+surfactant with cheap bleach and cheap surfactant. The bleach spray continues to work as expected.
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Depends on exactly what you're mixing it with. Some detergents and surfactants can be mixed with bleach, like the ones they use in laundry soap. Others, like the ones usually used in dish soap, are not. I'd look for chemical manufacturer's guidance for whether this is safe -- or maybe if you were using the exact same chemical used in the ready-made solution you're replacing.
Personally, if I really needed a surface to be sterile (e.g., preparing groceries for an elderly relative with lung problems), I'd
1:99 bleach to water (Score:5, Informative)
Mix 1 part bleach with 99 parts water for household disinfection. Keep well ventilated while cleaning.
Use soap and water to clean your hands and face.
Didn't your governors provide any guidance on how to clean your home safely and effectively against the virus?
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Why is it the job of the government at all? Is it also their job to tell you when to come out of the rain? Or, to wear a coat when it is cold? Are people not expected to have ANY idea about rudimentary survival?
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You uh....you see the older generation lately? Most of them are the ones out in the cold, with no mask, protesting the fact that they can't get to the early bird special at Golden Trough. They have ZERO clue about modern tech or even logic or good sense. The only reason we got quarantined this quickly is because old people were DYING of this shit, so of course the gov. took notice....it's full of OLD PEOPLE. Coincidence? Nah.
We should totally keep electing really old white guys to lead us though. After all,
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Why rely on governors when random internet posts can do it for you. Thanks for the tip.
Also other tip*: you can recharge an iPhone 7 and above by microwaving it for 30 seconds thanks to it's wireless charging capabilities.
*This is not a tip, this is a joke, do not do this.
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Probably, but it's the Ads that provide the "advice" that only brand sanitizer "kills 99.9% of germs". My girlfriens still doesn't believe that that's also the case for soap.
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Soap is better than alcohol.
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Didn't your MOTHER provide any guidance on how to clean your home safely and effectively against the virus?
Seriously, my mother was adamant that I (male, so no stereotyping) know how to cook, clean, and sew.
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The real problem is we have two organizations who provide information. The World Health Organization, and the Center for Desease Control (CDC).
Why the heck did any American listen to WHO? This is not to say anything bad about WHO, but shouldn't Americans just listen to CDC?
I mean, WHO was supposed to relay information among countries, they aren't suppose to teach anyone directly what to do. Normal people are supposed to heed the direction of their respective governments, and for Americans, that meant CDC.
Why should Americans look to WHO (and skipping CDC) for guidance at all?
The proper mixture of a SPRAY FOR YOUR BOXES DAMMIT and not for drinking is discussed here and it's not a magic formula... depends on the strength of your bleach. https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/... [msu.edu]
Yes, obviously it depends on the strength of bleach used, but note that
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I'm trying to calculate how much bleach and water to use, but I can't find the [:] key on my calculator.
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You're telling the American public, which for the last 20 years have dumbed down division they can't do it, and have to count back your change, that 1:99 is better than 1:80? Ok. Sure.
The point of whether or not Americans should listen to WHO - WHO puts out guidelines for people, not just for countries.
https://www.who.int/emergencie... [who.int]
It's about "listen to someone who knows what they're talking about" not "that orange idiot preaching about malaria drugs
or what he thinks about his own daughter."http://www.
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When putting out guidelines for the general public which, you know, 50% have less than average intelligence
You mean 50% have less than median intelligence, right ? ;-P
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When putting out guidelines for the general public which, you know, 50% have less than average intelligence
You mean 50% have less than median intelligence, right ? ;-P
To be pedantic, the intelligence distribution should be normal, so the mean and median should be the same.
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"the intelligence distribution should be normal"
Do you have any actual basis for that statement?
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the IQ scale is defined so that it gives a normal distribution with mean 100 and standard deviation 15
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Did you read the rest of that link?
"It has been an empirically observed fact that many "naturally" observed traits, like height or IQ, are NOT empirically normally distributed."
Do you think its likely that the lifespan of two people with an IQ of 50 and 150 will be equal even if they were equally likely to be born?
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just say 1:99 is much easier to grasp for most of the population.
Hey, your dot-com key there is broken between 1 and 99. I've seen some keys repeat themselves before, but never vertically. What kind of strange foreign keyboard ARE you using? Ditch it and learn to type English already.
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The real problem is we have two organizations who provide information. The World Health Organization, and the Center for Desease Control (CDC).
The problem is that you're relying on WHO and some center for Desease (whatever that is) control to tell you how to wash your damn and to sneeze into a handkerchief. Except the last dumbass President started telling people to sneeze into their elbows like barnyard animals. Why all of a sudden do people need a government official to teach them basic fucking hygiene that is taught to every five year old child?
Safety First (Score:1)
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Conspiracy (Score:2)
Don't you think it's a little odd that an organization that calls itself New Jersey Poison Information and Education System gets calls about poison? Seems a little suspicious to me. Can't just be a coinidence.
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I bet most of them were toilet paper horders... (Score:4, Informative)
The truth is no matter how much bleach you hose you're house with, everyone is going to get some variation of this virus, its here to stay. There are already 31+ (and growing) mutant strains that have already been identified. Some seem worse than other strains, just like the normal cold, this is just going to be part of the way things are.
USA has 4 times UK poisoning rates, why? (Score:2)
Crunching some numbers, from the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6916e1.htm?s_cid=mm6916e1_w ) we can extrapolate about 120000 poison calls each year related to cleaning products in the USA when there isn't a pandemic on. With a population of 328M, that is about 0.0004 poisonings/person from cleaning products.
In the UK (data from 2008), there are about 5000 poison calls each year related to cleaning products (pro rata from the 14 month data in https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov] ). With a popula
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Rates between countries are rarely comparable. The current pandemic has shown this pretty well for example. Every country has different standards how they count cases, severity, who can be considered cured, how they test, whose cause of death is corona or something unrelated, who's doing the counting and how, etc.
That said, the UK and the EU are nanny states. They don't trust their citizens. It's hard to get effective cleaning products around here, especially for bleaching and disinfecting. It's all full of
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I seem to remember products called TCP (according to wikipedia: a mixture of phenol and halogenated phenols) and Dettol (again according to wikipedia containing chloroxylenol). They seem peculiar to europe, I don't know what the equivalent domestic US products would be.
Over here I think hydrogen peroxide or alchohol would fill those roles around the home along with bleach and "Simple Green" (I have no idea what is in it), or perhaps Neosporin - an over-the-counter antibiotic ointment (neomycin, polymyxin B,
Sigh (Score:1)
Rate of new cases & deaths are increasing in U (Score:1, Interesting)
The *rates* of new cases are increasing The *number* of new cases is increasing faster over time.
Cases:
https://aatishb.com/covidtrend... [aatishb.com]
The *rates* of new deaths are increasing The *number* of new deaths is increasing faster over time.
Deaths
https://aatishb.com/covidtrend... [aatishb.com]
Worldometer shows the U.S. at 818,000 cases and 45,343 deaths as of last update.
https://www.worldometers.info/... [worldometers.info]
John Hopkins shows us at 825,306 cases and 45,075 deaths as of last update.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis... [arcgis.com]
We are on track
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Please don't break quarantine til new cases drop below 200 per day *and* we have plenty of testing and contact tracing is set up.
So essentially we're never going to leave quarantine.
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bullshit, plenty of areas not having problems. I'm not a smoking, drug abusing obese diabetic or insulin resistant couch potato. Most people have no real problems with the virus, you lard-asses can stay home. More than fifty times the people in the graphs you're using have had it already and didn't even know it.
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You realize, I already granted that 100 times as many people had it than indicated by the number of deaths * the inverse of the IFR?
The death count is the "hardest" number we have. (and we know it's low due to people found dead on the streets (1,100 in NYC march 2020, 200 in NYC march 2019.)
I agree.. 80% of people have mild cases. We've known this since studies were done in China back in early February. But 10% are serious and require mild hospitalization and 10% are critical and require critical or inte
just stop (Score:2)
Others saw the same trend, and wondered if the accidental poisonings were an insidious, secondary result of the coronavirus's spread.
No, they may be a result of the reaction to the virus' spread. Just like the economic carnage. (The economic carnage isn't caused by the virus; it's caused by the civil and criminal law that governors are magically generating without legislative bodies.)
Stop blaming the damage of your (possibly) massive overreactions on the virus itself. One of the few things I haven't seen the virus accused of is causing literal mental illness. The virus doesn't make you mix bleach with things that you shouldn't mix it wi
Other types of home accidents? (Score:2)
I'm cooking so much more I've burned myself at least three times since the lockdown began. Not good for a programmer who needs to use his hands. Fortunately, I'm doing okay.
Sherlock is that you? (Score:2)
Government regulations (Score:2)
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You blather about unrelated things. No, we don't need regulation for useful chemicals that those who read directions can use safely to keep clean. Banning dangerous things because some dumb-asses abuse them and do unintended things with them is not the answer. Dumb-asses will hurt themselves with ordinary things, that will never change.
Bleach cures (Score:2)
There's a large number of people who legit think that consuming bleach can cure or aid in the recovery from disease. They're sad stupid people who have been lied to. It's a tale as old as time.
The International Church of: Drink Bleach (Part 1 of 2)
https://podtail.com/en/podcast... [podtail.com]
yes (Score:1)