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Science

Short Sleepers Might Be Benefiting From a DNA Mutation 159

An anonymous reader writes: As someone definitely not in that category, I envy people who can get along with little sleep. I have sometimes secretly believed they're exaggerating. Maybe not. The BBC reports on DNA research that says there might be a genetic basis for the very low sleep needs that some people have. The article says that UC-San Francisco researchers "compared the genome of different family members. They discovered a tiny mutation in a gene called DEC2 that was present in those who were short-sleepers, but not in members of the family who had normal length sleep, nor in 250 unrelated volunteers. When the team bred mice to express this same mutation, the rodents also slept less but performed just as well as regular mice when given physical and cognitive tasks." If it's stuck in the genes, though, I guess I'll still want more hours in a row if I don't want to start hallucinating. So how many hours do you need? I seem to get along with six or seven, but sleep past noon on the occasional weekend day. Update: 07/09 19:24 GMT by T : The latest Freakonomics podcast has some interesting things to say about the economics of sleep, and hours-per-night is a big part of it.
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Short Sleepers Might Be Benefiting From a DNA Mutation

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  • by turp182 ( 1020263 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @10:05AM (#50075761) Journal

    I really can't sleep more than 6 hours. And I usually wake up automatically (before my alarm clock) around 4AM. I've been this way for decades (back in high school I could sleep in).

    If I get less than 5 then I suffer that day. It seems like my sleep needs are just being met, and if I fall behind at all then I feel like crap that day and need to go to bed early that night (and then I just wake up earlier the following morning, but rested).

    I perform best, by far, before noon, but that could be the nature of the work (mind grinding).

    I do enjoy a nap in the afternoon when I can get it (Saturday afternoon sometimes). There's actually not much nicer than a good afternoon nap.

    • by phoenix_rizzen ( 256998 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @01:08PM (#50076943)

      It would be nice if North American business instituted "siesta time" across the board. A nice 20-40 minute nap after lunch would really improve productivity in the afternoons.

      • Yep, we are a nation of "afternoon yawners".

        And of course most of us need additional caffeine in the afternoon to not yawn too much.

    • I'm in a similar boat. 5-6 hours seems to be perfect. I typically go to bed between Midnight and 1AM. My alarm is set for 6:30AM, some mornings I am up before it, sometimes I hit the snooze button for that extra 7 minutes it gives me.

      There is the odd time I go to bed between 3AM and 5AM, and still up before 7:00AM. I will admit those days are not a walk in the park, but I certainly don't go about my day like a zombie. I'm still functioning and get my work done, though I may be a little more irritable than n

  • 6 hours for mental refresh, longer if after a full day of physical activity.
  • geeks these days are always trying to pretend that they're somehow special. it's simply not true.
    • Statistically some will be "special". Just because you are not doesn't mean they won't be.
      • by Anonymous Coward

        Statistically some will be "special". Just because you are not doesn't mean they won't be.

        Oh I'm "special" all right. Just not in any way that could be construed as positive.

      • Being the smartest kid in the shortest bus doesn't make one "special" all on its own. Now, also being captain of the AV squad... now THAT is special.
  • ...and 8+ is ideal. But between being a full-time developer and running marathons, I figure whether it's due to the lack of a genetic mutation or simple necessity is, bluntly, irrelevant. If I get fewer than 7 hours of sleep, I suck at everything, physical or mental.
    • by magsol ( 1406749 )
      But I should mention that I absolutely envy colleagues of mine who regularly function on 5-6 hours of sleep. I could get quite a lot more done with the extra 2-3 hours.
      • What this sort of study can't tell you is if those mice actually do something useful with their additional wakefulness. Look for escape routes? Solve puzzles for treats?

        Or just go round and round on the wheel.

        Think about it for a moment. Careful what you ask for....

  • by Anonymous Coward

    NFL coaches are legends for being workaholics, and many seem to get ridiculously small amounts of sleep [slate.com]. What to they do with their time? A lot of it is spent reviewing game videos of their own team and those of opponents, very slowly with lots of stop action, to assess as precisely as possible the strengths and weaknesses of different players, team units, and schemes. Then they have to come up with plays and new variations of plays, and new practice drills. And of course, people management.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    I prefer 7-8 hours a night.

    That being said... In college, I learned how to survive on little sleep. I kept doing this all through my 20s and 30s. Now I've gotten to the point where it's physically draining, but going wthout sleep is mostly a matter of willpower and caffeine. I start hallucinating after about 24 hours without sleep, but this can be solved by taking small 5-10 minute naps from time to time. I found out the hard way that eventually you burn out from going without sleep for long periods of time

    • I prefer 7-8 hours a night.

      That being said... In college, I learned how to survive on little sleep. I kept doing this all through my 20s and 30s. Now I've gotten to the point where it's physically draining, but going wthout sleep is mostly a matter of willpower and caffeine. I start hallucinating after about 24 hours without sleep, but this can be solved by taking small 5-10 minute naps from time to time. I found out the hard way that eventually you burn out from going without sleep for long periods of time, but it doesnt' require special genes.

      These days, I just do a better job of setting expectations and agreeing to longer project schedules so I can get the job done without killing myself.

      I also need 7-8 hours of sleep a night. I've tried getting by on less, and I can do it for a few days, but I eventually need to repay that sleep debt. Caffeine does nothing for me, so fighting tiredness that way is a non-starter.

  • People who don't sleep much may annoy their partners and have fewer babies. Similarly, there is no selective pressure against Parkinsonism, diabetes, or heart disease, since people rarely die from them before having children.

  • ...genetic basis for the very SLOW sleep needs...
    Please get more sleep...and I can recommend the fast kind.

    • by timothy ( 36799 ) Works for Slashdot

      I'm sure that was a typo, and Yes, perhaps it was generated by a lack of sleep ;) I've fixed that now, and Mr. Anonymous can complain if he meant "slow" instead.

  • by skgrey ( 1412883 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @10:24AM (#50075877)
    I've been a different sleeper for years. I used to think I was an insomniac; I would have trouble with not being ready for bed, then would lay there for hours, then finally get a few hours of sleep as I thought I *had* to get 8 hours to be healthy. I averaged between 3 and 5 hours of sleep a night for many years. It was cyclical though; sometimes it would be multiple weeks of 3, then multiple weeks of 5. I used to get upset that I wouldn't get 8 hours of sleep ever. I was still dreaming, and waking up recharged and refreshed.

    I've learned over time that it's almost impossible for me to get 8 hours of sleep unless I've worked for multiple days in a row. I've done data center moves or had a crisis with production where I was up for somewhere around 48 hours or more, but when I went to sleep I would only sleep 8 hours before my body would wake me. I would then sleep again "for the night" in a shorter range of time (something like 16 hours of being up rather 20), but then I'd re-regulate after that.

    I do kind of wish I slept more though. I don't think my brain feels as awake as it could if I had slept more.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      I can't sleep much at night (only a few hours), but can sleep all day. As I got older this became more and more debilitating until I had to start working my own hours. Many sleep problems are probably people incompatible with 9-5 schedules and waking to the terror of alarms going off (tigers in the cave).

  • by enterix ( 5252 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @10:30AM (#50075903)

    16hrs of napping a day plus athletic abilities of felines? Plus aren't we all more happy dreaming anyway? There was one of scenes in Inception that group of sleep drug subjects preferred dream reality from awake one... what's reality anyway...

    • If that's the case (happier asleep than awake), you need to find a way to improve your life. Seriously.
      • by enterix ( 5252 )

        "If that's the case (happier asleep than awake), you need to find a way to improve your life"

        What are having only zombie nightmares?

        Thank you for misreading... that was supposed to be zen metaphor... you've just spoiled with your correct but very flat existential point of view :) but wow! you got 5 score for that!

        • What are having only zombie nightmares?

          Good dreams, if you ask me! Pass the shotgun.....

          • by enterix ( 5252 )

            > Pass the shotgun.....

            People who sleep happy and have good dreams do not pick shotgun fights with strangers for no reason. Why are you so against people who like to sleep longer and nap happily as a cat?

            When 900 years old, you reach Sleep as good, you will not.

  • I rarely sleep more than 4 hours at a time, though I'll often have a nap for an hour or two in the afternoon.
  • Five to six hours (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BabaChazz ( 917957 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @10:30AM (#50075909)

    I discovered that when I tried to sleep the eight that was supposedly required, I would either wake up at 0300 and not be able to get back to sleep for an hour and a half, or I'd sleepwalk. I read a book a few decades back that suggested that by gradually decreasing your nightly sleeping time, you could find the amount of sleep you really needed (it was some decades back, sorry I can't remember the title now) and I tried what it suggested. Found that I'd wake up decently rested at 7 if I went to bed at 2.

    On weekends, I wake up at 8 without the alarm clock. Weekdays, even holidays and when I forget the alarm clock, I'm up at 7. Habit.

    My wife hates it.

  • I think our brains have enough short term memory to go through a day chasing zebra in the African plains. And when we sleep the short term memory gets transcribed into long term memory. Brain is quite plastic and we have stretched it to last a whole day in this modern lifestyle.

    Short sleep might restore the muscles and other organs and prep them for another day. But "doing physical and cognitive tests" as well as well slept mice says nothing about the long term memory of such short sleepers.

    • I think sleep allows the brain to repeat experiences, but otherwise isnt all that special as far as learning. For those that don't know, the primary learning methodology of the biological brain is known to be hebbian which can be summed up quite succinctly as "neurons that fire together wire together." Sleep allows experiences to be repeated, increasing the strengths between neurons that otherwise rarely fire outside of those experiences.
  • I have three little kids, the youngest not yet one year, so I'm unable to get all the sleep I'd like. I make do with about 8 hours a night, sometimes only 6 or 7. But on the very rare occasion that I'm away from the kids, I naturally sleep between 9 and 10 hours (and feel much more awake in the morning.)

    Of interest might be my kids' sleep times: 9 hours for the six year old, 10 hours for the four year old, and 7 hours plus multiple naps for the infant.

  • 7.5 is about perfect for me on an ongoing basis. I'm just as productive / alert after 6 for periods of a 5-10 days, but then it starts catching up with me. My wife needs 9, and anything less than 7 for more than a single night is asking for trouble.

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @10:36AM (#50075947)

    1) Pick some rare advantageous trait (e.g. short sleepers, super multitaskers)
    2) Post a story about it on Slashdot
    3) Observe the large number of posters who claim to have the trait

    Optionally:

    4) Cross-correlate these posters against list of posters claiming to possess a different rare advantageous trait in previous Slashdot discussions

    • Throw in some control traits that are weird, but not "advantageous" per se. For example, I am a supertaster. Sure, technical it makes it much harder to poison me. But it also means I am surrounded by food that has been over-seasoned for my taste and I have to keep telling people "NO SAUCE", and I can't enjoy a 'good' beer, wine, coffee, etc.
      • by Reziac ( 43301 ) *

        Haha, as a fellow supertaster I hear that one -- I've got to where I say "no sauce" as if by reflex, and dislike a lot of "good" stuff as being the wrong kind of bitter. OTOH, I have often refused to eat something that tasted wrong to me, and meanwhile my fellow diners are busy acquiring food poisoning.

        As to sleep, dogs vary wildly in their sleep needs, but it's most obvious with pre-weaning puppies. Most sleep a lot; some slow-developers do almost nothing but sleep. But a few are up and at-em very early in

    • I am a supertaster.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        My voice is not affected by helium.

    • You're leaving out the part about my 12 inch wiener.

  • by nitehawk214 ( 222219 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @10:37AM (#50075951)

    I need about 1-2 more hours than I get.

  • Down to the minute - I find I'm most rested if I sleep *exactly* 8 hours. I can go a long time on 7 before it starts catching up to me (which is good, because that's how much I often get these days, because my brain has now decided that I really want to get up when the sun comes out even though no I totally don't), but I'm happiest if I can consistently get 8, exactly.

    • by Quirkz ( 1206400 )

      To time it that well, you must be able to go to sleep pretty quickly? I know there are people like that out there who can lie down and be out in less than 5 minutes, but it's alien to me. I'd say 15 is a minimum, 30-45 minutes is typical before I actually fall asleep. On rare occasions when I'm desperately tired and start to fall asleep in less than 5 minutes, the rapidity of descent actually startles me and tends to wake me up.

      • I'd say probably.

        I'm the type of person that can be asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow (less than a minute, tops). I also sleep like the dead and will sleep through anything, including being physically assaulted and natural disasters, until morning.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 09, 2015 @10:44AM (#50075993)

    I was amazed to learn that before the advent of artificial lighting the common human sleep pattern the world over was to sleep in two ~4hr shifts with an hour or two break in between in the middle of the night. The commonality of this is evidenced partly by various allusions to it in literature--as if it were simple, common knowledge. Some articles mentioned that some people go to the doctor thinking they have a sleep disorder when they continually wake up in the middle of the night, only to learn that their body is simply reverting to its own natural sleep cycle.

  • Beggars in Spain (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jacksdl ( 552055 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @10:44AM (#50075995)
    Good science fiction story form 1993 by Nancy Kress about finding the genetic basis of the need for sleep. Among the ideas in the story is that sleep is only needed to dial back metabolism at night, thus conserving energy. Evolutionarily useful when calories are scarce -- not so much now. When the genetic need for sleep is removed, a group of super-productive people is created. Food for thought...
    • Sleep helps the body, but its primary benefit is for the mind. If you think of the mind as a computer, sleep is when it performs all of the needed maintenance tasks that it can't do when you're awake to keep the computer operating at peak efficiency. If you don't sleep enough, you can get by for awhile, but your brain will become more and more muddled until you can just barely function. Removing the genetic need for sleep wouldn't be a simple procedure and would likely have some very ugly consequences.

      • by jacksdl ( 552055 )
        You're probably right. But I wonder if we don't do that important maintenance while we're sleeping mainly because there is nothing else going on. Kind of like scheduling indexing and garbage collection on a computer when it is least burdened...
    • by Falos ( 2905315 )
      There was an article a while back about how it's a chance to detox, kind of like a reverse dry docking.

      http://science.slashdot.org/st... [slashdot.org]

      iirc TFA says the circulatory system doesn't really penetrate to the cranium's innards bc space is a premium in there, and that means a loss in waste removal. Says during sleep the spinal fluids rise up and flush the brain, in lieu.

      That alone would still be a physical, chemical demand, which hypothetically could be subverted somehow. But I still expect there's men
  • Thyroid levels and other hormones affect this. I'd be shocked if the mutated gene didn't affect the metabolizing of one or more of those hormones. I'm falling off a cliff of being able to function normally on 8 hours of sleep as my thyroid levels (affected by medical issues early in life) are finally falling below the normal range.
  • I can get by on 6 more or less indefinitely. Some nights I feel like I'm tossing and turning and not getting to sleep all night, but if I get up on those nights I'm even more of a wreck the next day than I would be otherwise. I'm pretty sure I'm just getting a few minutes of sleep each hour punctuated by moments of conscious awareness. So I'm sleeping-ish, but it doesn't feel to me like I am.

    Oddly the time I get up also makes a difference. I've found that if I set my alarm for 6 AM, I'll usually wake up a

  • I sleep (typically) from 9:30pm to 6:00am when I have work the next day. I also bike commute and don't eat breakfast, so I need the sleep when I'm not eating before the ride.

    On Friday and Saturday nights, though, I tend to go to sleep around 10:00pm and wake up around 4:30am or 5:00am. Weird, I know, but for some reason, I wake up with the thought in my mind, "This is my time! I'm not sleeping through it!"
  • by shoor ( 33382 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @11:20AM (#50076223)

    It's been awhile since I saw it, but I was struck by one thing in particular. One of the researchers talked about a period of 4 hours during the sleep when participants usually could not remember dreaming, but apparently they were. They could be awakened during this time and recall their dreams. The researcher would also disturb the sleeper somehow without completely waking them up but it would still disrupt their sleep somehow. When the subjects woke up they believed they had gotten a good night's sleep and felt fine. But cognitive tests showed they were not operating at maximum potential.

    Generally sleep is poorly understood, but it seems to be an almost universal phenomenon and need in the animal world. Muck with it at your risk.

    • by Quirkz ( 1206400 )

      That reminds me of something else I often wonder about myself. Many (most?) people seem to say they don't dream all that much, or never remember them. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, where I could swear I'm *always* dreaming, and assuming I don't have to rush, whenever you wake me up I could tell you about the dream in great detail. I cannot remember a time when I woke up and didn't think I'd just been dreaming. I've often wondered if somehow I'm not getting into the deeper sleep that other people

  • Animals - and apparently some humans - can function completely by taking short naps (10-20 mins) repeatedly throughout a 24 hour period without having an hours long sleep session. This phenomenon is termed polyphasic sleep [businessinsider.com].

    It is also interesting to note that the practice of lucid dreaming [lucidity.com] (having conscious awareness during a dream while it is happening) happens during REM sleep - which increases in frequency and duration throughout the night (or sleeping time) - with the majority of REM sleep occurring
  • As with most things, I suspect there's a certain amount of this you can "learn" and beyond that is where genetics comes into play. Even as a kid when my twin sister went to bed I was allowed to stay up and read for 3 more hours until my parents went to bed. For about 6 years I was sleeping 3 hours per night but it wasn't enough and I'd come home after work and crash for a 40 minute nap. My former room mate used to ask how I got so much stuff done but he slept 10-12 hours a night, which is the opposite e

  • by kheldan ( 1460303 ) on Thursday July 09, 2015 @12:24PM (#50076595) Journal
    As an amateur athlete, I understand well the importance of getting enough quality sleep. The question I have here is, if you have this 'genetic mutation' and naturally sleep fewer hours, does your body fully recover, day-to-day, or are you perpetually feeling sleep-deprived regardless? To put it another way, is your body recovering/recharging/(re)building faster and more efficiently, therefore less need for sleep, or are you just incapable of sleeping 8-10 hours at a time? If it's the former, then I'd sign up to have my DNA resequenced to have this trait, if such a thing were actually possible.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Until they live with me, or work with me. I sleep between 2-5hrs a night and average about 4/night per any given week. Given that I'm bipolar too I cycle a small bump into the mania section monthly and usually don't sleep at all 1 - 2 nights per month. None of which has any ill affect on health or functionality. When I get distracted by a project or my art, I will often just work a straight 18 - 20hrs without even thinking of sleep (food gets low priority too then). As a child I never napped past 6 months a

  • I sleep 9.5-10 hours when uninterrupted. If I get less than 7.5 then I need an afternoon nap. I envy people who can get by with less, for the cumulative extra hours spent awake add up to a lot.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    When I was under 7, I needed the normal 8-9 hours of sleep.

    During the summer of my 7th, we moved a fairly long distance - and I stayed up until 4AM, then slept til 7AM.

    AFTER that, I found I couldn't sleep until 3AM or so, woke at 6 as usual, and had a "normal" day. I would read 4 to 5 books a night.

    I got classed as a borderline epiliptic, and was put on sedatives to make me sleep a more normal period, which I still do, mostly. After 18 I was off the drugs (finally!), but still sleeping relatively normally,

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I'm guessing the submitter is a lot younger than I am.

    When I was in college, I could (and did) easily sleep to noon or 1pm on weekends when I didn't have to work. Now in my mid-40s, I usually wake up around 5am without an alarm clock, and average at best 6-7 hours per night. I would love to sleep more, but I just can't.

    Meanwhile, I have a hard time getting my teenage daughters out of bed before 9 or 10am on the weekends. Grrr.

    - Necron69

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