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Medicine Science

Common Medications Sway Moral Judgment 132

Posted by Soulskill from the chemical-personality dept.
sciencehabit sends news that two commonly-prescribed drugs have been shown to influence how the human brain makes moral decisions. Citalopram is an SSRI used to treat depression, and levodopa is often used to combat Parkinson's disease. A new study (abstract) asked subjects to set a monetary value on receiving painful electric shocks — for themselves and for others (e.g. "Would you rather endure seven shocks to earn $10 or 10 shocks to earn $15?"). The study found that subjects on citalopram (which affects serotonin levels) were willing to give up more money to reduce shocks, both for themselves and others. Those on levodopa (which affects dopamine levels) made people just as willing to shock others as they were to shock themselves, when those on a placebo tended to be more reluctant to shock others. [Neuroscientist Molly] Crockett says those effects could suggests multiple underlying mechanisms. For example, excess dopamine might make our brain's reward system more responsive to the prospect of avoiding personal harm. Or it could tamp down our sense of uncertainty about what another person is experiencing, making us less hesitant to dole out pain. Serotonin, meanwhile, appeared to have a more general effect on aversion to harm, not just a heightened concern for another person. Such knowledge could eventually develop drugs that address disorders of social behavior, she says.
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Common Medications Sway Moral Judgment More

Common Medications Sway Moral Judgment

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  • Psychoactive drugs may affect your thinking? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lumpio- ( 986581 ) on Friday July 03, 2015 @11:38AM (#50039779)
    Unfathomable! Stop the press!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bagboy ( 630125 )
      Right? Wait, I've got one for you. A couple of shots of Tequila may cause you to be more promiscuous, less inclined to run a marathon and on some people, become a loudmouth ass!

      • No, you were always those things. Tequila just enhanced your abilities, it did not create them.

    • Re:Psychoactive drugs may affect your thinking? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) on Friday July 03, 2015 @12:17PM (#50039969)

      'Common sense' and 'studies' are not interchangeable.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Especially given the number of counterintutitive things proven by studies. All the way back to Galileo's tower of Pisa drop experiment.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sycodon ( 149926 )

      "Moral Decisions", such as whether it's right to shoot up a school or not.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Lumpio- ( 986581 )
        Yes, an integral part of thinking. I for one think that shooting up a school would be a very bad idea, but then again I'm not taking any drugs right now.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by KGIII ( 973947 )

          ...but then again I'm not taking any drugs right now.

          So, what are you doing later? Say, 10 o'clock? /s

          I am clean today. I have not always been. I am just open about it. I was a functional abuser for years, multiple times daily - opiates is my DoC/addiction with a needle fixation. I lost my ability to be a functional user sometime after I retired and had the money to just spend on whatever felt like it was going to make me content. So, I quit with a detox center's help. I am open and honest about it. Meh... It is not like I have to get a job or anything so I

  • We need a study measuring the effects of alcohol-influenced people holding firearms on responses to obvious headlines. I volunteer as a test subject.

    • You'd think Dr. Obvious's here would've looked at alcohol's affect on morality over the ages before discovering that, hey, ingesting stuff affects our mental judgement of things!

  • If common medications can do all that, just think what uncommon medications might do.

    • " just think what uncommon medications might do"

      Improve your health, instead of just alleviating the symptoms and assaulting your body with horrible side-effects?

      • I was thinking mind control, MK-Ultra, medically programmable assassins -- that sort of thing.

        But okay, improved health would be a good peace dividend.

        • "I was thinking mind control, MK-Ultra"

          Yes, they (the CIA) did a lot of testing on unsuspecting patients here in Canada who went to see Dr. Ewan Cameron [coat.ncf.ca] for depression.

          LSD and other experimental drugs were used on patients without their knowledge or consent.

          There is even a movie about it, called The Sleep Room [imdb.com].

          • Most of what I know about CIA mind control, I read in Journey into Madness [amazon.com] by Gordon Thomas [wikipedia.org].

            I don't have the book right at hand, but as I recall, Thomas made it quite clear that Dr. Cameron was valuable to the CIA precisely because he was Canadian -- an American doctor would be more closely scrutinized, more vulnerable to exposure.

            Also as I recall, Dr. Cameron was quite vigorous about his business. He was not a tool to be deceived or coerced by American spooks. He did what he did of his own active voliti

  • I bet if you did a study on how sleep, hunger, low-level chronic pain, being annoyed (e.g. arriving late at work after being stuck in traffic), or just about anything else affected moral thinking, I bet you would find most things that affect emotions also affect moral decision-making. I know from a lifetime of empirical study on myself that sleep, hunger, etc. do affect my emotions and general decision-making. I have not studied my moral decision-making in light of these factors enough to draw a firm con

  • Disorders of social behavior (Score:4, Interesting)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Friday July 03, 2015 @11:53AM (#50039857)

    I want to be on the committee that decides what sort of behavior justifies drug intervention.

    • Re:Disorders of social behavior (Score:5, Insightful)

      by digsbo ( 1292334 ) on Friday July 03, 2015 @12:16PM (#50039963)
      If I were in a public school today and behaved as I did in the 80s and early 90s, I'm certain I'd be prescribed drugs for ADHD and sent to mandatory counseling for emotional problems. Because I acted like a boy, and drew pictures of horrible things in and out of art class. So really, this is already happening. If you want to be on the committee, get into school counseling, guidance, social work, and so on.

      • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday July 03, 2015 @02:01PM (#50040451)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by KGIII ( 973947 )

          You should sue. Not to win money but to bring exposure and to get a formal apology. That is unacceptable.

      • I don't disagree that ADHD is often misdiagnosed in children, especially boys. And treatment far too often is to go straight for the meds. And if they don't work, try a higher dose! It really is a sad state of affairs.

        However, as someone who actually suffers from ADHD, I felt the need to comment on your post, because there is also a certain element of our society who thinks it is a completely made up disorder, and your post might be construed to convey that notion. I don't know if that was your inten

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by digsbo ( 1292334 )
          I didn't mean to say ADHD isn't real. My wife was a school psychologist and worked with kids who benefitted profoundly from medical diagnosis and intervention, but she also agreed I'd likely be treated inappropriately today in many schools.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's prescribed on an individual basis in my country (Canada), usually alongside counseling, so really it's up to the "you and your doctor" committee.

      I developed general anxiety disorder which gradually turned into agoraphobia over the course of 5 years. A big part of recovering from anxiety / agoraphobia is going out and experiencing the things that give you anxiety so you can train your body to ignore the rush of adrenalin it's producing for no reason, but to even step out the door I needed help in the fo

  • Interesting but the headline misses the mark (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Friday July 03, 2015 @11:59AM (#50039879)

    Did anyone seriously doubt that psychoactive drugs can and do affect just about all decision making processes ?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Yup. SSRIs like Citalopram are powerful mind/mood altering drugs. I was on just a small dose for a while and felt like a very different person (not even really "better", just very "different"). It killed all my drive and made me a complacent zombie. No wonder these are pushed.

      The conclusions here are ridiculous, as these drugs are INTENDED to alter how your mind works.

      • " I was on just a small dose for a while and felt like a very different person (not even really "better", just very "different"). It killed all my drive and made me a complacent zombie."

        Ditto. Flushing those nasty pills was one of the best decisions I ever made!

  • Isn't that what ectacy is? I thought there was a reason those didn't really exist as medication.

    • I think the reason that ecstasy doesn't exist as a medication is because it actually works. At least for soldiers with PTSD. [maps.org]

      • , but that the patent protection is long since expired.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

        MDMA, like many recreational drugs, may be an effective medication in some cases.
        However there are often practical reasons why they are not used :
        - there are non-abuseable or better alternatives
        - the effects are unpredictable (the main problem with psychedelics like LSD)
        - they are not that effective
        - there are too many side-effects
        - they are actually used but with a different name (Adderall is "speed") or in an different way (cocaine as a local anesthetic)

  • Somebody I know started taking antidepressants some time ago, and they helped the depression quite a bit. One curious thing, though, is that once she is taking them, she assumes that I can read her mind; that I obviously know what she is thinking. She stopped taking them for a while, and it was immediately apparent that she no longer felt that way, then when she started taking them again, it was back.

    • My GF got post-partum psychosis 4 years ago.
      She spent 2.5 years in the hospital, trying new medications combination (including electroshock therapy and strong, old drugs that are kinda forbidden now) every 2 month.
      She's healthy now and we're a happy "normal" family again.
      But oh boy, we went through hell, and I'm happy to have forgotten half of those damn symptoms and side effects that we've seen during those years. E.g. :
      * Hearing friendly voices that advice her to jump from a bridge
      * Forgetting her name or

  • This isn't new.

    Side effects of SSRI based anti-depressants - in addition to subduing the creative thought process and destroying the sex drive - include what has been termed emotional blunting [nih.gov].

    In effect, blunting erodes one's ability to feel emotional response or empathy - such as being able to feel the 'warm fuzzies' in a relationship. This is a very dangerous road that can lead to sociopathy.

    The stated [drugwatch.com] side effects of SSRI based anti-depressants also include violent and/or suicidal behavior.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Instead of reaching for pills, people with AIDS should instead get some regular exercise, a good diet and a good immune system.

      That's kind of what you said. Depression means you can't get a good attitude without help. Depression attacks your attitude, making it worse.

      • "people with AIDS should instead get some regular exercise..That's kind of what you said."

        No, not at all. I was referring to depression, not AIDS. That's like comparing apples to donkey feet.

        I was not suggesting that people with depression don't need help. I was saying that they don't need SSRI based anti-depressants. And I am speaking from personal experience here.

        SSRI based anti-depressants, like so many other pharmecuetical products, do far more harm than good.

        • You still phrased yourself like the "just get over it" idiot crowd that anyone with depression have run into, in your previous post, with that homeopathic health nut feel. Positive thinking and exercise? Makes it very hard to take your so called personal experiences serious in the least.

          Agree that SSRIs suck, though. NSSRIs seem a tad better, but at the end of it all, I feel like the medications are being tossed at the wall to see what sticks. Random mixing of cocaine and LSD probably would have just as goo

          • > "You still phrased yourself like the "just get over it" idiot crowd ...with that homeopathic health nut feel...Positive thinking and exercise?"

            Yes, how dare someone suggest that people could actually take responsibility for their own health and resolve their own issues - without resorting to nasty pharmacueticals! Geez, they must be complete nutter!

            > "Makes it very hard to take your so called personal experiences serious in the least."

            Baaaa!

        • Just because you didn't need them, that doesn't mean everyone with depression could get by. It is dangerous and stupid to take your case and apply it to all.

          Some people don't have any side-effects taking an anti-depressant and someone else might feel like they got hit by a wrecking ball. I have known people taking the same medication react completely differently. I know without a doubt that one of my friends would have been long dead without antidepressants and she is functional and productive because of th

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by felrom ( 2923513 )

      It is also interesting to note that the majority of mass shooters in the last 25 years have been under the influence of - or withdrawing from - SSRI based anti-depressents.

      The problem is that because of the difficulty of getting this information, and the poor quality of journalism in America, this information is usually just a footnote in a state report, or a small detail in the thousands of pages of documents entered into evidence at trial.

      James Holmes (Aurora theater shooter), Adam Lanza (Newtown), the Navy Yard shooter, the second Fort Hood shooter, Anders Breivik (Norway shooter), Seung Hui Cho (Virginia Tech shooter), and Eric Harris (Columbine) were all on SSRIs when th

      • Blaming SSRI's is just as lazy and ignorant as blaming guns.

        • >"Blaming SSRI's is just as lazy and ignorant as blaming guns"

          Nope. SSRI's directly affect your thoughts, emotions and behaviour. They change the person, like it or not.

          Blaming a person's actions exclusively on SSRI's would be folly. But to state that they could influence someone's behaviour and attitude would be 100% true.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Pills are not the answer. Especially these pills.

      Bullshit. What is true, however, is that pills alone are not the answer. I have been diagnosed with depression but it has gotten better and I'm no longer on pills. I feel better now even though nothing in my life has objectively changed for the better - I'm still unemployed but now I'm optimistic and have the energy to do something about it (engage in CBT, exercise actively and so on - stuff I simply didn't have energy for). Basically, the pills stopped a depression spiral I was in from getting worse. I was

    • Re: Blunting (Score:4, Insightful)

      by BarbaraHudson ( 3785311 ) <.moc.duolci. .ta. .nosduh.enaj.arabrab.> on Friday July 03, 2015 @06:59PM (#50041697) Journal
      You're confusing cause and effect. The SSRIs didn't cause people to become crazy killers, they were taking these drugs because they already had problems. The emotional blunting helps take the edge off of the suicidal thoughts that come with major depression, as the study notes that participants were more adverse to harming to harming themselves or others. The side effects are better than killing yourself.
      • > "You're confusing cause and effect."

        No, I am not. I said that it was interesting to note, not that it caused their behavior - although they certainly could have contributed to it.

        > "The emotional blunting helps take the edge off of the suicidal thoughts that come with major depression"

        Initially, yes. And after prolonged usage it goes from "taking the edge off" to "wearing out" emotional empathy.

        > "The side effects are better than killing yourself."

        Personally, I would rather b

  • (1) Arbitrarily describe some weird experimental conditions by some grand sounding, general, important term (e.g., "moral judgment")

    (2) Vary experimental conditions randomly.

    (3) After about 100 experiments, you will find one that gives an effect with statistical significance at the 1% level. Chances are better if you pick experimental conditions involving psychoactive drugs and/or pain.

    (4) Publish your results and bask in the accolades of your peers and the press coverage.

  • Citalopram (Score:5, Interesting)

    by myrdos2 ( 989497 ) on Friday July 03, 2015 @01:19PM (#50040249)

    I'm seeing a lot of negative postings about unnecessary drugs and implying doctor's don't know what they're doing. I went through an episode about a year ago where if I tried to sleep my face would start burning. If I got up, it would fade away. I suffered on roughly one hour's sleep per night for a year before I went to see a doctor. The solution was to take one pill per day, and in a few weeks I was sleeping full nights again. It took years to recover though, because that level of extended sleep deprivation is very damaging. Even now, I'm still not quite as sharp as I was before.

    When I look back I can see how stupid I was. I suffered that entire year, and had years of recovery, for nothing. Why? Because people who don't have a hot clue about psychology said that the doctors don't know what they're doing, the medicine is as bad as the disease, those pills are over-prescribed, etc. etc. But guess what? If your meds turn out to have bad side effects you can stop taking them, or just ask for different ones. Such a simple thing. And yet so many people who could benefit from them are turned away by fear, uncertainty and doubt.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I went through an episode about a year ago where if I tried to sleep my face would start burning. If I got up, it would fade away. I suffered on roughly one hour's sleep per night for a year before I went to see a doctor. The solution was to take one pill per day, and in a few weeks I was sleeping full nights again. It took years to recover though, because that level of extended sleep deprivation is very damaging. Even now, I'm still not quite as sharp as I was before.
      [...]
      I suffered that entire year, and h

  • Maybe they keep doing research like this and eventually SSRIs won't be the first line treatment for anything and everything. I've trialled nearly _every_ damn SSRI with terrible side effects and with no intended effect over the last few years. Then with a change of doctor due to him leaving that office, the new doc says "Well I see you've tried SSRI X before, but what if we try it at a different dose this time. Or if that doesn't work we can try SSRI Y and we'll add in Wellbutrin to mitigate the side effect

  • Common my ass (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    When someone uses the phrase "common drugs" it is assumed that they are OTC drugs that are commonly found in people's homes. There is nothing "common" about either of the drugs in the summary unless you are being treated for depression or Parkinson's disease! Way to go with the tabloid headline writing and the death of editorial ethics in its entirety on /.

  • Boy do they... (Score:4, Informative)

    by koan ( 80826 ) on Friday July 03, 2015 @03:15PM (#50040765)

    http://ssristories.org/ [ssristories.org]

  • So certain psychoactive drugs have an influence on moral judgment. OK, cool science...I guess.

    But damn, whoever is designing these experiments is a sadistic mo-fo who needs a freaking intervention! WTF people!

    Scientist: "Oh, I know...we can pay grant money to people to let us give them painful shocks!" (scientist's leg starts twitching, obviously aroused). "Yes...yessss...pain..so much pain, and pleasure. Too bad we couldn't get funding for the ball gags and leather straps."

  • I wonder how long it will take them to discover that all of these mind altering drugs stop the brain working properly, and that outside certain acute situations where stopping the brain's normal working is not the most pressing issue (acute mania, extreme depression, etc.), they don't achieve much, and can get in the way of recovery. Unfortunately the truth is not particularly helpful to pharmaceutical profits, and is not particularly useful to doctors who only think in terms of 'this disease means that dru

  • This is BS (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "Still, the study did not measure levels of dopamine or serotonin in the brain to confirm that they were elevated while the subjects were taking the test,"

    Citalopram needs to be taken approx 1-2 weeks to become effective as an anti-depressant. I have been on a couple of time.

    This is a bullshit/troll study unless you are trying to promote Soma...
  • As everyone should know, amphetamines increase dopamine levels. Just a coincidence that they were brutal, or was their national drug habit in part to blame for their behaviour? North Korea has a huge amphetamine problem too, and treats humans just as badly.

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