Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Mars NASA Space

How To Die On Mars 278

An anonymous reader writes: Many space-related projects are currently focusing on Mars. SpaceX wants to build a colony there, NASA is looking into base design, and Mars One is supposedly picking astronauts for a mission. Because of this, we've been reading a lot about how we could live on Mars. An article at Popular Science reminds us of all the easy ways to die there. "Barring any complications with the spacecraft's hardware or any unintended run-ins with space debris, there's still a big killer lurking out in space that can't be easily avoided: radiation. ... [And] with so little atmosphere surrounding Mars, gently landing a large amount of weight on the planet will be tough. Heavy objects will pick up too much speed during the descent, making for one deep impact. ... Mars One's plan is to grow crops indoors under artificial lighting. According to the project's website, 80 square meters of space will be dedicated to plant growth within the habitat; the vegetation will be sustained using suspected water in Mars' soil, as well as carbon dioxide produced by the initial four-member crew. However, analysis conducted by MIT researchers last year (PDF) shows that those numbers just don't add up."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

How To Die On Mars

Comments Filter:
  • Hobbit (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ArcadeMan ( 2766669 ) on Tuesday May 26, 2015 @11:12PM (#49779929)

    There's still a big killer lurking out in space that can't be easily avoided: radiation.

    Except underground, which is the obvious solution but people are too fixated on making housing above the ground.

    Even on Earth, living underground would shield us from the extreme cold and extreme heat. That would be better for us and would require a lot less energy to warm us in the winter and cool us in the summer.

    • There's still a big killer lurking out in space that can't be easily avoided: radiation.

      Except underground, which is the obvious solution but people are too fixated on making housing above the ground.

      Except, like most obvious solutions - moving underground poses as many (if not more) problems as it purports to solve. For example, adding many tons of earth moving machinery to a manifest already bulging at the seams. (Machinery which will add to the maintenance burden as well.) This solution also limits

      • Why dig the cavern when there are already networks of lava tubes?

        You can seal both ends of the tube, or put your habitat inside the lava tube. That delivers practically free radiation shielding.

    • It would also keep us from precious vitamin D. We are currently not meant to live in the dark, while evolution is slow and gradual. Are you proposing that they would evolve faster on Mars than we do here on Earth?
      • by bytesex ( 112972 )

        Fine. Once a week, you get to hold your breath, go through the airlock, and stand on the surface of the planet - naked - for five minutes. That should solve your vitamin D problem.

    • The first colonists will live underground, to be sure, but the big problem with radiation is going to be on the trip up there. There is going to have to be some meeting-in-the-middle of shielding vs a generated magnetic field.

    • by invid ( 163714 )
      It's actually more plausible to colonize the Moon than Mars. In both cases you're going to be living underground. In both cases you're extracting water and oxygen from local resources. In both cases you're going to be wearing a pressure suit on the surface. The advantage of the Moon is it only takes a couple weeks to get there instead of months. You can bring a heck of a lot more resources from Earth to your Moon base for the cost of bringing it to your Mars base. An emergency escape craft to bring you from
    • Except underground, which is the obvious solution but people are too fixated on making housing above the ground.

      Do you get the impression Mars One has planned on bringing enough excavating equipment to make this viable?

      The technological challenges of underground cities on Mars are not going to be viable for the first people there.

      If you plan on doing that, you need to pre-stage your equipment there, or dig by hand.

      Yes, in theory, underground solves one possible problem. But it's a long way from solving eno

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Mars has a number of places, where the magnetic field is strong and hundreds of km high. Is it enough? And if not, is not is, in effect, not about the lack of magnetosphere, but about the lack of atmosphere dense enough, which does not stop most of the non-charged particles?
  • by narf0708 ( 2751563 ) on Tuesday May 26, 2015 @11:21PM (#49779955)
    The point of a permanent Mars settlement is the fact that some of us would rather die on Mars. I don't understand why people are finding any problems with that.
    • by TWX ( 665546 )
      I wouldn't go to another place to live unless the odds were better than even that I could live my natural lifespan if I'm careful. I don't care if that's across town or across the Solar System. I would not go to Mars without at least a decent chance that a colony could survive. After all, going without that expectation is literally accomplishing nothing.
      • by SuricouRaven ( 1897204 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @01:16AM (#49780245)

        Option one: You live a long but uneventful life in an unremarkable job. You are loved by friends and family,but after your death your memory soon begins to fade. You accomplish little of any lasting effect upon the world.
        Option two: You life a life of adventure and challenge, and die young in one of the many tragic accidents that your inhospitable environment causes on a regular basis. You pioneer a new way of life, and there's a good chance of your name going down in history books. You contribute to something that may change the course of history.

        Either way, you end up dead - but for a lot of people, option two looks more appealing.

        • by Kjella ( 173770 )

          You life a life of adventure and challenge, and die young in one of the many tragic accidents that your inhospitable environment causes on a regular basis.

          Fair enough, many climb Mount Everest for no better reason.

          You pioneer a new way of life,

          Well mostly you'll be living in a bunker living off a long supply chain from Earth. It'll be a lot like living on a submarine that you mostly endure rather than pioneer. Many will envy you going, not so many the actual living conditions.

          and there's a good chance of your name going down in history books.

          Name the third guy to set foot on the moon. I'm not saying there's no fame, but there's many easier ways to celebrity status. Except if you're the next Neil Armstrong.

          You contribute to something that may change the course of history.

          True. But I imagine it'll be a rather unglamorous

          • It'll be a lot like living on a submarine that you mostly endure rather than pioneer

            Extra points for this remark. I suppose many of us (myself included) at first had a somewhat romantic picture when thinking about the first Mars settlement, even harebrained ones like Mars One. A garden dome with some cylindrical habitats around it, with a bespacesuited pioneer standing outside next to the rover he takes out on his daily drives around the planet. The submarine analogy is much more realistic... It'll be cramped, with only very limited time outdoors, with zero privacy, zero opportunity to

          • by delt0r ( 999393 )

            You life a life of adventure and challenge, and die young in one of the many tragic accidents that your inhospitable environment causes on a regular basis.

            Fair enough, many climb Mount Everest for no better reason.

            The difference is that the tax payer doesn't foot the bill for Everest summit attempts.

        • by Rob Riggs ( 6418 )

          How do you think we managed to make Australia habitable?

          Penal colony... "You've been sentenced to death. How'd you like to an opportunity to live a little longer?"

        • Space travel is hard.

          The point is, we have to try. The sooner we are independent of Earth, the better.

          So what if it takes a few trillion dollars of effort and resources? There will always be people who could be better off. That's the human condition.

          We are either meant for the stars or we are not. I choose to believe the former. Would I go myself? No. I'm too old. Would I invest my money and encourage my children to go? Absolutely.

        • by delt0r ( 999393 )
          Go and ask people who Neil Armstrong is. The under 20s have no idea who he is. Nor do the care after you tell them. If all you want is a memory (your dead so not sure why you give a fuck), your probably better off going insane and blowing shit up.
        • Either way, you end up dead - but for a lot of people, option two looks more appealing.

          Until they try it. (Though a small number will actually take to it.)

      • by kuzb ( 724081 )

        There isn't really a need to worry about that. Mars One won't even make it off the ground, much less Mars.

    • If I wanted to go to to Mars I would strongly prefer to die AFTER I was able to build a working colony there.
      Identifying and countering the dangers helps to get some productive years out of your astronauts. The fact that many would go on a one way trip there does not mean that most of those would like to die soon there. I hazard a guess that most would like to live a lifetime there.

    • by jklovanc ( 1603149 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @01:15AM (#49780239)

      I don't understand why people are finding any problems with that.

      The problem is that sending people to Mars is very expensive and the billions of dollars wasted on sending people to die on an inhospitable planet could be better used for other things.

      There is no parallel between a Mars outpost and explorers in the Age of Sail. On Mars people will be living in holes in the ground only able to go outside in cumbersome suits and will have to be supported by shipments from earth for a very long time possibly forever. All for no gain for Earth. Age of Sail colonies quickly became self sufficient and able to live off the land or they failed.

      Mars 1 is a scam to make money for the promoters and nothing more.

      • > The problem is that sending people to Mars is very expensive and the billions of dollars wasted on sending people to die on an inhospitable planet could be better used for other things.

        Which is what people in my youth said about the Moon landing and, frankly, has been a constant refrain against all space flight. It's difficult to know which parts of interplanetary flight and technology will pay off the most, and I'd prefer myself to pursue some of those likely byproducts first. But just a few potential

    • by delt0r ( 999393 )
      That fine. As long as your the one *paying* for the funeral.
  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Tuesday May 26, 2015 @11:35PM (#49780003)

    I forget where but recently I read a really good point - the radiation shielding someone on Mars might want to wear a lot (especially outside) is actually quite useful, because it adds weight that puts stress on your bones to the same degree Earth gravity would, thus reducing the problem of bone loss through everyday movement instead of just exercise periods.

    As mentioned though, it seems like any mars settlement could make good use of the canyons there to help with shielding.

    • by TWX ( 665546 )
      It's hard to build in canyons and it's hard to navigate them. I expect that the earliest colonies will be built into the sides of mesas, such that the plains on which the mesas sit can be used.
      • by Rei ( 128717 )

        The sad fact is, the first colonies will probably be build right out in the open on flat land with nothing around for dozens of kilometers, because it's safer to land there. Which is why we haven't landed any Mars probes in deep canyons or the like, despite all of the interesting geological formations that would be exposed on the walls.

  • by anzha ( 138288 ) on Tuesday May 26, 2015 @11:52PM (#49780055) Homepage Journal
    perchlorates [wikipedia.org]. Mars seems to be chalk full of them. There are some microbial lifeforms which are able to metabolize them, but we can't. In fact, their pretty bad for us. For large values of bad.
  • Obvious first step (Score:5, Insightful)

    by penguinoid ( 724646 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @12:02AM (#49780087) Homepage Journal

    How to die on Mars:
    1) Go to Mars
    2) Wait

    No one has yet figured out step 1.

    PS: You should go to Mars! It's a real paradise -- there's no crime, no disease, no oppression, no pain, and no death. And no taxes, either.

  • by bkmoore ( 1910118 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @12:14AM (#49780117)
    In fact it's cold as hell
    And there's no one there to raise them if you did
    And all this science I don't understand
    It's just my job 5 days a week
    Rocket man! Rocket man!
  • What would it feel like to live there? Would you have to be careful walking? How long would it take to adapt.

    g = 3.75 m/s^2 vs 9.8 m/s^2

  • by Aereus ( 1042228 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @12:58AM (#49780201)
    How much dirt would be required to shield from all/most of the radiation? Yes, manual labor requires more oxygen, but worst-case scenario, they use shovels and pile dirt on an aluminum dome or such for some initial shielding?
  • Voluntarily (Score:3, Insightful)

    by h33t l4x0r ( 4107715 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @01:29AM (#49780275)
    At a feast for your water brothers, who will grok you in fullness as you go on to become an old one.
  • by kuzb ( 724081 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @01:45AM (#49780289)

    Mars One's plan is to continue to siphon money until everyone else figures out it's a scam.

  • Stupidity is a death sentence.

  • by Obfuscant ( 592200 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @04:00AM (#49780643)

    Heavy objects will pick up too much speed during the descent, making for one deep impact. ...

    I seem to recall hearing some recent developments in science, some wacko claim by some Italian guy that the acceleration due to gravity was actually independent of the mass of the object. That would indicate that both heavy and light objects would accelerate the same way under the influence of gravity on Mars. What a silly notion, I'm sure the Pope will cure him of his heresy.

    • In a vacuum, yes, but Mars's atmosphere is too thick to ignore, but too thin to be really useful for landing large objects with chutes and aerobreaking. The smaller rovers got away with chutes and impacting with big bouncy airbags, but Curiosity would've hit too hard to survive, which is why it went with the propulsive "sky crane" scheme.

      Anything larger, and there's little choice but using rockets to touch down in one piece. Lighting an engine in an atmosphere while the craft is supersonic introduces all

  • by nomaddamon ( 1783058 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @04:02AM (#49780649)

    Heavy objects will pick up too much speed during the descent, making for one deep impact.

    1. Speed gained during decent does not depend on weight of the craft.
    When considering aero-braking/parachuting/gliding the only thing that matters is lift/drag generating surface area vs mass

    2. Speed gained during decent (from mars gravity) is nominal compared to orbital transfer speed/orbital speed that needs to be zeroed.
    Mars orbital speed at 200km is around 2.4km/s, total amount of speed gained from direct decent from 200km to 0km on Mars is around 1.2km/s (with no atmosphere), in real life we would see orbital speed (2.4km's) decreasing on decent due to atmospheric drag (until it reaches terminal velocity, which depends on point 1. but should be less than 1km/s for any viable design).
    Prior to achieving stable orbit around mars we have to (aero-)brake from at least 15km/s (orbital transfer). So theoretical 1.2km/s from Mars gravity (which actually doesn't happen) is a really small amount of additional velocity compared to the amount we have to brake anyway.

    Playing a few hours of KSP should be mandatory prior to posting articles about space flight on the internet :)

  • The Martian [tvtropes.org], by Andrew Weir.
  • Mars One is a bunch of useless bloody loonies!
  • I don't know how they will die on Mars, but we will be watching them with a 4 to 24 minute time delay.
  • "However, analysis conducted by MIT researchers last year"

    I'm a bit foggy on the specifics, but wasn't one of the major "faults" noted in that study the loss of nitrogen via out gassing to prevent CO2 buildup. And some quick internet searches found various commercially available systems that don't have consumables to extract nitrogen/CO2 from an atmosphere (either removing CO2 directly from the habitat or removing the nitrogen from the waste CO2 stream before expulsion). Don't get me wrong there are plent

  • by TheRealHocusLocus ( 2319802 ) on Wednesday May 27, 2015 @06:33AM (#49781057)

    EVOLUTIONARY DEAD END COOKIES
    (serves 7 billion)

    INGREDIENTS
    two million years of domesticated fire
    six millennia of scientific curiosity
    two centuries of significant progress in science and engineering
    50 years of space exploration
    35 years of awareness of KT impact and necessity of planetary defense [slashdot.org]
    one cup irrational fear of radiation and willful disregard for shielding techniques (to taste)
    one sprinkle fear of death from any cause not typically experienced by modern suburbans
    lump of plain common sense (if you can not find it, substitute two tbsp blind faith and a pound of dogged determination)
    tiny dash of optimism

    PREPARATION
    Carefully combine all ingredients in a large bowl of stars, ensuring that you completely blend the essential characteristics that have allowed these naked apes to overcome natural extremes of climate, predators, disease and boredom. Beat until technological excellence rises to the top. Form into several self-sustainable colonies and multinational corporate enterprises. Place in space oven preheated to a degree of caution and optimism. Bake until spinoffs from the enterprise rise to the occasion with the potential to enhance and expand human civilization with its yummy goodness, colonies in space are able to mobilize quickly in Earth's defense, and Galaxia might be achieved.

    SERVING
    Throw out all that shit. Engage the collective human mind in sitcoms and 'reality' shows.
    Promote artificial issues that represent lack of vision or restraint (terrorism, energy poverty) as if they were natural threats
    Let the fucking insurance companies guide all innovation and risk taking.

    Promote zombies and head-shot horror in mainstream media as a gateway to cannibalism and violent population reduction.
    Popularize cheeky '1001 ways to Die' angles.
    Feed the slack.
    Characterize folks who try to push through these barriers as 'space nutters' [slashdot.org].

    For cookies, spray flavored coating over a nutritionally inert Styrofoam shapes and market them as "heart healthy".

The reason that every major university maintains a department of mathematics is that it's cheaper than institutionalizing all those people.

Working...