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Science Technology

Scientists Create Permanently Slick Surface So Ketchup Won't Stay In Bottle 172

HughPickens.com writes Much of what we buy never makes it out of the container and is instead thrown away — up to a quarter of skin lotion, 16 percent of laundry detergent and 15 percent of condiments like mustard and ketchup. Now Kenneth Chang reports at the NYT that scientists have just solved one of life's little problems — how to get that last little bit of ketchup (or glue) out of a bottle. Using a coating that makes the inside of the bottle permanently wet and slippery, glue quickly slides to the nozzle or back down to the bottom. The technology could have major environmental payoffs by reducing waste. Superhydrophobic surfaces work similar to air hockey tables. Tiny peaks and valleys on the surface create a thin layer of air between the liquid and the coating. The air decreases friction, so the liquid almost levitates above the surface, just like the hockey puck floats above the table. LiquiGlide's approach is similar, but it uses a liquid lubricant, not a gas. "What could be a solution that provides sort of universal slipperiness?" says Dr. Varanasi. "The idea we had was, Why not think about trapping a liquid in these features?" Dr. Varanasi and Mr. Smith worked out a theory to predict interactions among the surface, the lubricant and air. Essentially, the lubricant binds more strongly to the textured surface than to the liquid, and that allows the liquid to slide on a layer of lubricant instead of being pinned against the surface, and the textured surface keeps the lubricant from slipping out. "We're not defying physics, but effectively, we are," says Smith.
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Scientists Create Permanently Slick Surface So Ketchup Won't Stay In Bottle

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  • How is this new? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dorpus ( 636554 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:25PM (#49338109)

    I've seen these sorts of videos for at least 5 years now. Where are the commercial products?

    • by xnerd00x ( 92166 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:29PM (#49338151) Journal

      There is absolutely no incentive for Heinz to put this into their bottles. This means people will spend less on average on ketchup per year since they can get every last bit out of the bottle. I know it may not seem like much, but multiply it by millions of bottles sold and it adds up to a hefty hit on their bottom line.

      • by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:34PM (#49338207) Homepage

        You're thinking about it all wrong.

        You turn it over, half the bottle dumps onto your food. You have to buy twice as much. Effectively they can increase food waste, and therefore sales, under the guise of environmentalism. Sure, we'll help you get every last drop ... just all at once.

        I know the last thing my wife wants is for me to have the mustard come out of the bottle any faster. I always end up with far too much as it is. ;-)

        If the ketchup came out faster we'd be doomed.

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward

          I know the last thing my wife wants is for me to have the mustard come out of the bottle any faster.

          That's what she said!

          Heyoooooooo!

          • Re:How is this new? (Score:5, Interesting)

            by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @03:05PM (#49338539) Homepage Journal
            I'm wondering, is this the next round of BPA /phthalates that we find are bad for us?
            • I'm wondering, is this the next round of BPA /phthalates that we find are bad for us?

              Of course it is, but we won't do any sort of health testing until decades later when it's in most of our products.

            • That may not be what you have to worry about [deadspin.com]. In fact, if these problems come to pass, it would probably solve the obesity epidemic in a month.

            • Had a roommate that went through a Heinz catsup factory. Watched what they put "into the vats" and said he never ate ketchup again.

              • by dbIII ( 701233 )
                Just wait until you've seen how fish sauce is made, or woostershire sauce.
                I got some very funny looks when I checked the use by date on a bottle of fish sauce. It's already gone off so the date is mere decoration.
              • Comment removed based on user account deletion
            • I'm wondering, is this the next round of BPA /phthalates that we find are bad for us?

              From TF-NYT-A: (emphasis mine)

              The approach also allows them to vary the ingredients of the textured layer and the lubricant to fit the properties of different liquids — for food applications, the coatings are derived from edible materials.

        • Can totally see this. People expecting it to stick in restaurants. Turn it over and instinctively hit the bottom. Entire bottle on plate!
        • That won't happen. Ketchup is a non-newtonian fluid: its viscosity changes with shear force, and so it refuses to flow until adequate force is applied. That's why ketchup doesn't leave the bottle with gentle force, but spurts out when squeezed. It will retain its shape just fine until forced out.

          Heinz will collapse as a company and be bought by Kraft or something stupid while Hunts goes on to advertise to housewives that they can get that last squirt with their bottle.

        • There's a very simple solution to the ketchup bottle problem: turn it sideways.

          Most people hold the ketchup bottle vertically upside down over their plate and slap the bottom to make the ketchup come out. This doesn't work very well. Instead you hold the bottle horizontally over your plate and hit the side, so that there's plenty of room for air to enter the bottle while the ketchup flows out. Works every time. Try it.

          • Even simpler solution: use a plastic squeeze bottle. No mess, and they're probably cheaper than the glass ones to boot. Also, if you get one that dispenses from the bottom, you don't have to deal with that liquid that tends to rise to the top.
            • Just had this "problem" the other day... I squeeze the bottle and nothing comes out, so I squeeze harder and harder until suddenly I hit the "breakthrough" point and get an avalanche. I do not like those squeeze bottles, thank you very much, the glass bottles work much better for me.

            • Is there any problem plastic can't solve?

            • Unfortunately, that solution is so obvious that the condiment makers have made it for us. Where can you even get a glass bottle of ketchup any more?

          • by fisted ( 2295862 )
            Yes, this. And violently shake before opening.
          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • by sootman ( 158191 )

          > You turn it over, half the bottle dumps onto your food.

          Insightful? REALLY? I didn't read that they're making the ketchup thinner or removing the small hole in the end of the cap. The article shows a glass ketchup bottle, true, but the other bottles shown are the more common squeezable plastic kind. The last time I used a glass ketchup bottle was maybe 10 years ago in a restaurant.

        • I was wondering why they replaced their wonderful crosshair squeeze tops with normal pop-tops within the last few years. The old bottles were very precise and clean. The new ones just glop the stuff out.

          Just the latest round of, "you're holding it wrong," I guess.

        • Sensible comment. There's a marketing story about how a toothpaste increased their sales by 15% just by increasing the size of the opening of the tube. Since then, they've all done that. And with they I don't mean toothpaste brands. Think about it the next time you squirt some detergent in the sink

        • You're thinking about it all wrong.

          You turn it over, half the bottle dumps onto your food. You have to buy twice as much. Effectively they can increase food waste, and therefore sales, under the guise of environmentalism. Sure, we'll help you get every last drop ... just all at once.

          I know the last thing my wife wants is for me to have the mustard come out of the bottle any faster. I always end up with far too much as it is. ;-)

          If the ketchup came out faster we'd be doomed.

          My favorite are the hand wash products that when you give a push the gel shoots right out over your hand, missing it completely.

          In second place are the shower products with holes big enough that you just can not get a small quantity out.

      • by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:37PM (#49338227) Journal

        They'll sell smaller bottles for the same price, and they'll enjoy lower shipping prices. Win-win, kinda.

        • They'll sell smaller bottles for the same price, and they'll enjoy lower shipping prices. Win-win, kinda.

          People won't buy smaller bottles for the same price.

      • by Sowelu ( 713889 )

        Charge an extra $0.30 per bottle just for the novelty factor, while at the same time converting more people away from the store brand.

      • The money they could make by advertising no-stick bottles far and away outweighs the losses due to the customer getting a packet worth of extra ketchup out of the bottle.
      • Yes there is. Competition. Absent collusion, someone will implement it in an attempt to gain or maintain market share. I'm not saying the free market is a panacea, but that's the incentive, and I suspect it's compelling enough in this case.

      • I don't think it really matters if they put it in their bottle or not, we're all going to still have 3 half full and expired bottles of Ketchup in the fridge anyways.
      • On the contrary... (Score:4, Informative)

        by elgatozorbas ( 783538 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @03:21PM (#49338787)

        I know it may not seem like much, but multiply it by millions of bottles sold and it adds up to a hefty hit on their bottom line.

        You are completely correct. In the past Heinz has even been caught cheating by underfilling their ketchup bottles [breakingnews.ie].

      • Of course there's an incentive. Just like with anything else, Heinz dominance in the ketchup market is not guaranteed. Consumers ALWAYS have the option of switching to another brand like Hunt's, or a generic store brand that's cheaper. Heinz wants give consumers a reason for choosing a slightly more expensive national brand, and a better bottle may be a part of that decision.

        Moreover, what can you really do to market ketchup? It's not exactly a product that you can improve on in terms of the food itself

      • by jeffmeden ( 135043 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @03:47PM (#49339113) Homepage Journal

        In the history of "conservation" no one has managed to turn the ability to use less of a product, into the *practice* of using less of a product. How often do you let the empty ketchup bottle "ride" in the fridge and squeeze a few faint drops on each hot dog hoping to get the last of it, while really only putting 1/10th your normal amount on? Yep. Now, you can get your full ketchup fix on time, every time. And when the bottle is gone it's gone, no more "maybe one more blob of salt-tomato-vinegar heaven, if I shake it just right!" instead, it's on to the next new bottle, and the next full load of ketchup on your bratwurst, and even BETTER sales for Kraft/Heinz.

        Further reading: energy efficiency != energy conservation: http://freakonomics.com/2015/0... [freakonomics.com]

      • by Ksevio ( 865461 )
        But if they can sell a less frustrating product than their competitors then they might make more money
      • There is absolutely no incentive for Heinz to put this into their bottles. This means people will spend less on average on ketchup per year since they can get every last bit out of the bottle. I know it may not seem like much, but multiply it by millions of bottles sold and it adds up to a hefty hit on their bottom line.

        And thus a need for...regulation.

        And for all you who think that the free market works well without government intervention- enjoy your wasted ketchup (or whatever) because this ain't never gonna happen wi'out no reg-u-la-shun.

      • There is absolutely no incentive for Heinz to put this into their bottles. This means people will spend less on average on ketchup per year since they can get every last bit out of the bottle. I know it may not seem like much, but multiply it by millions of bottles sold and it adds up to a hefty hit on their bottom line.

        I have to contradict you. Yes there is an incentive. If you can get all the condiment out from the container, instead of losing 15%, then Heinz and others can make their portions smaller, without reducing selling price.

  • We just mixed a little vinegar in to get the last of the bottle and slop it on our french fries.
  • by the_skywise ( 189793 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:28PM (#49338133)

    and like BPA plastic coatings I'm sure it'll be completely harmless to us... for now...

    • by rnturn ( 11092 )

      Yes but ketchup manufacturers (Big Ketchup?) paid the researchers to figure out the ketchup bottle problem. Not our long-term health. That problem is dumped by Big Ketchup into the FDA's lap who'll then turn around and ask Big Ketchup to study the problem for 90 days and, if nobody dies of cancer during that time, will deem the super slippery ketchup bottles safe. Unless the FDA decides that they can fast track the approval process because the American People need this product as soon as possible.

  • Again? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by StikyPad ( 445176 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:28PM (#49338137) Homepage

    I thought they did this years ago. [slashdot.org]

    • MIT was showing this off awhile ago and I *believe* they sold it to DuPont... you can buy it in cans to coat things like boots. I think the innovation here is that they've made the coating either tougher so it won't abate over time and/or they've figured out how to make it food safe... I can't imagine making your insides hydrophobic would be that good for you...
  • by berchca ( 414155 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:28PM (#49338139) Homepage

    We already knew it existed, as reported on Slashdot back in May of 2012:
    http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/05/23/2240213/mit-creates-superhydrophobic-condiment-bottles

    The news here is that it's finally being commercialized.

  • Seems like it makes NO sense for food manufacturers to implement. Sadly this appears to be a case where regulation may be needed to force the issue.
  • Wow ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:29PM (#49338159) Homepage

    So, if you could do this on the outside of condoms you'd put Wet and Astroglide out of business. ;-)

    Introducing, everslide ... our slipperiest condoms evar.

  • But (Score:5, Funny)

    by synapse7 ( 1075571 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:34PM (#49338201)

    Does it cause cancer in California?

    • According to one of the links, the company apparently has a number of chemicals to choose from, and will apply the one most compatible with the customers' product.
      For reference, here's the CA Prop 65 list [ca.gov] (PDF)
  • I wonder how carcinogenic this stuff is...
  • by hammeraxe ( 1635169 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @02:39PM (#49338243)

    Multi layered packaging (such as ketchup bottles or juice cartons) is already notoriously difficult to recycle. Can't imagine this helps... At least you can rinse out the leftover ketchup.

    • For paper and plastics, that's true. Glass would be the best bet, since the melting or flash point of the coating(s) is almost certainly lower than that of glass, so it can easily be separated.

    • If nothing sticks to it, why couldn't you just refill it?

  • How about coating the insides of our arteries with something like that!

    • Great, then you'd have an artificial version of hemophilia, wouldn't you? The slightest nick and you'd bleed out?

      Reminds me of some diet product from years ago that got pulled due to excessive rectal seepage.

  • 'Reducing waste', from the point of view is actually 'reducing sales'. Product that is 'wasted' is merely product bought and never used. Reducing this 'waste' will reduce their sales volume.

    I'm sure they're all eager to jump on something that will reduce sales, no matter how much consumers would like it.

    • by Sowelu ( 713889 )

      Consumers will do anything to feel more socially or economically responsible! They'll buy twice as many of these new bottles just for the privilege of wasting less ketchup and plastic.

    • by ledow ( 319597 )

      How much do they save by you rebuying a teaspoon of ketchup once a month? Ketchup bottles are already refillable.

      How much brand name exposure would they get to be the only company with the "unstickable" bottles? Ketchup bottles that are squirty without whacking required (the new plastic-sphincter caps), sit on their lids not their base, etc. have actually increased sales of (technically smaller) bottles in many industries. Hell, in the UK you can buy squirty mint sauce and it costs more than normal mint

    • by moeinvt ( 851793 )

      If the consumers like it, couldn't they raise prices? It might also allow the early adopter to grab market share until the competitors ketch up.
      If your condiment bottle does something cool that the competitor's doesn't, I'll buy it and pay a premium.

  • I don't care about wasting half a cent's worth of ketchup, but what I do care about is not getting sick. If this stuff is on the outside of condiment bottles and salt shakers at restaurants, it massively reduces the number of germs that'll live on said implements. And how often do you wash your hands between putting ketchup on your plate and dipping a fry into it?
  • sci fi novel "The Mote in God's Eye" had frictionless toilet that didn't need water. I already thought of way of keeping sewer odor out of house without water trap.
  • Ketchup Won't Stay In Bottle

    So like you open the lid and a fountain of ketchup immediately geysers out of the bottle?

    • Even creepier. The ketchup slithers out of the bottle top like a red high-temperature Helium II... and all over everything. And it keeps going... seeking something only Cthulhu knows.

  • Suppose you have almost empty bottle of ketchup. The following procedure works

    1) close the bottle, turn it upside down with one hand
    2) tap the bottle (2 or 3 times) to the other hand, while holding it upside down, to move the ketchup from the bottom to the (inside) walls of the bottle
    3) Stand the bottle on its cap
    4) let it stand for ~20 minutes
    5) most of the ketchup will slowly slide to the bottom, leaving the sides almost clean - try it to see it
    6) carefully open the cap while still upside down, emp
    • #6 In warmer climes the air has expanded in the bottle expelling the last bit with explosive force. There is no careful, just a blast of ketchup.
    • by dbIII ( 701233 )
      Being a cheap bastard I get that last 10% out with some hot water and add it to mince+tomato dishes that lack that deep artificial red colour that most of us are convinced that cooked tomato is supposed to be.
  • by Dereck1701 ( 1922824 ) on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @08:22PM (#49341263)

    "16 percent of laundry detergent"

    If you're wasting that much laundry detergent you're doing something very wrong. I use liquid and when the bottle runs dry I take a few cupfuls of water out of the washer and put it in the bottle, give it a few shakes and then dump it straight into the wash. I doubt more than 0.1% manages to stick to crevices in the pour spout. Even if you didn't do that I have a hard time believing that more than 3% sticks to the sides of the bottle. With your average bottle 16% is more than 5 loads worth of detergent still in the bottle.

  • How is it for the environment? Is it safe to make? to recycle? Safe To eat the products it contacts?
  • ... I want a stain-proof superhydrophobic shirt!

Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes. -- Henry David Thoreau

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