20-Year-Old Military Weather Satellite Explodes In Orbit 253
schwit1 writes A 20-year-old U.S. military weather satellite apparently exploded for no obvious reason. The incident has put several dozen pieces of space junk into orbit. From the article: "A 20-year-old military weather satellite apparently exploded in orbit Feb. 3 following what the U.S. Air Force described as a sudden temperature spike. The “catastrophic event” produced 43 pieces of space debris, according to Air Force Space Command, which disclosed the loss of the satellite Feb. 27 in response to questions from SpaceNews. The satellite, Defense Meteorological Satellite Program Flight 13, was the oldest continuously operational satellite in the DMSP weather constellation."
It was Terrorists! (Score:2, Funny)
Invade Mars immediately.
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The Martians are straightening the Tower of Pisa!
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It was probably the Chinese practicing their space warfare.
It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:2, Funny)
Even the military grade tech deteriorates. Surely it should withstand a two degree increase - especially over a century!
Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:5, Interesting)
I doubt that, there are no sharks in space.
Oh, you are serious. Well, that was my first thought too. Either a laser weapon or a small particle of something (meteorite) smashed through it causing a catastrophic failure..
Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:4, Interesting)
Micro meteor is an option. So is a laser - the chinese have already been testing them. Where was the satellite over geographically when it exploded?
Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:5, Funny)
The Earth.
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2. You won't believe what we did to the first one.
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It is a bypass! You've got to build bypasses!
Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:4)
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A chemical battery is a one use short duration power supply.
I've never heard of one being used in a satellite, but the military doesn't give out specs on their satellites, which conceivably might have a need for such a resource.
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I'd think most satellites have batteries, how else are they going to work when their solar cells are in the shade of the Earth?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R... [wikipedia.org]
Though the units in question do have batteries, which have historically been of the NiCd variety, and are in this case as well. I'm not sure if any newer satellites use newer battery tech? (NiMH or some sort of lithium ion..).
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Temperature spike could also be a runaway fault in the power supply. You have a power supply and a device likely full of hypergolic fuel for station keeping; I don't think system fault is really ruled out here either.
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Atmospheric diffraction used to be far more serious on earthly telescopes than it is now due to correction mechanisms and software. The flickering of stars due to atmospheric vagaries can be almost entirely eliminated. You want to bet on the fact that a lot of money has not been put into making that go the other way?
Atmospheric attenuation should not be a big issue. The point of having a ground based laser system is that you can pump a lot of power into either a flash strike or a persistent strike. Orbit
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Stop watching TV, it is bad for you.
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Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:5, Interesting)
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Maybe they used old laptop batteries.
Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:4, Insightful)
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that is possible. Its also possible that this is false information to cover up a military test. or worse, someone other than the US military testing....
So, a conspiracy, you reckon? (reaches for tinfoil hat...)
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Don't answer what you would prefer the answer to be, or what you think is more likely, but look at the complexity of each of the options, and answer the que
Okay, didn't want to go here but... (Score:3)
The principle of Occam's Razor is not "simplicity" vs. "complexity". It states not to multiply entities unnecessarily, but that does not equate to simplicity.
We have never seen a battery failure like this before (and there are very many of that type out there) so we are creating a new entity with introducing this type of battery failure to our list of known entities. That does not mean (under the principle of Occam's Razor) that it did not happen that way (battery failure) only that we should consider oth
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A foreign entity wouldn't have targeted a 20 year old weather satellite. They would have hit a major new spy sat. The only one with an interest to target a bird that old would be the US. If the argument is that it was shot down with some energy weapon the most likely perpetrator is the USA.
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This was a discussion about the use of Occam's Razor. How is your reply relevant?
There is no claim from me that it was or was not at battery failure, that it was or was not an energy weapon.
But if were trying to send a message I would not be taking something out that was provocatively useful and expensive. That might get a reply that I don't want. You do not take out a person's (state, country, empire) assets, you demonstrate the capability to take them out. It is a good deal less provative and sends
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I would launch the laser into space on a satellite or something.
Yeah batteries do explode (Score:2)
Natural ways (Score:3)
The truth (Score:5, Funny)
The truth is the explosion came just after a software update.
Sources that want to remain anonymous confirmed the update included systemd.
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Now we know where the old Slashdot Beta went.
Star Wars! (Score:4, Insightful)
Explosion after a measurable temperature hike sounds more like a laser or maser attack than a collision. With a collision, there would not be much to measure.
Ok, if the collision just severed some pipes or power or control lines, a temperature hike might also be part of the first consequence. But that would be boring.
Re:Star Wars! (Score:4, Funny)
Explosion after a measurable temperature hike sounds more like a laser or maser attack than a collision
Really, and how does it sound in space?
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Generally either PEW PEW PEW, or the Star Trek phaser sound, I'm sure.
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A laptop battery has a greater energy density than a hand grenade.
20 year old laptop batteries?
Maybe you should consider what you are saying before you say it.
Re: Star Wars! (Score:3)
Perhaps NASA battery tech from 20 - 25 years ago was more advanced than the cheap laptop batteries of the day? Maybe? Quite often military / space applications are the source of consumer tech down the line...
Re: Star Wars! (Score:5, Interesting)
These ran NiCd cells. Here's some TL;DR from NASA about a variant of NiCd they use(d), not sure if it applies here.
http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oc... [nasa.gov]
Short notes:
Fancy NiCd, Higher density and sealed. They rely on precise chemistry to be hermetically sealed units (lean on one element, for limiting and only O2 production).
High pressure at full charge (~60PSI at room temp), higher if things go south, Pressure drops with charge state.
Excess discharge causes hydrogen production.
So, tin can, pressure changing with charge cycles (metal fatigue over many cycles?), H2 production, O2 production... maybe there is some chance for catastrophic failure there.
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And no, I'm not suggesting any particular type of battery was used. I would have no idea what the military would use in a satellite. Perhaps they were willing to pay the extra cost for a sealed lead-acid batt
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How about the current AA rechargeable batteries, you pick the type. Then compare the Joules in each.
You are confusing the units and such. Stick to total Joules in the device by weight. You didn't. So I assume you are the one you are the one that doesn't know what you are talking about.
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The various sensors (IR and optical) on the thing would probably notice a massive amount of electromagnetic radiation hitting it. It's possible the frequency used was invisible to the onboard detectors, but that seems fairly unlikely. Much more probably it just had some kind of malfunction: the thing is probably loaded with mono-propellant and of course it has a battery, either of which could easily spontaneously explode if something went wrong.
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People forget that these satellites have thrusters to adjust orbit & that typically have combustible propulsion fluids.
Re:Uninsightful (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps you could be more informative as to the problem? Why wouldn't a coherent microwave beam be every bit as effective as a laser? Or perhaps you simply didn't realize that masers are a real thing, and even predate lasers sufficiently that lasers were originally called "optical masers".
The only potential issue that I can think of is that, due to the longer wavelength, it would be difficult to focus a maser beam as tightly. Of course if you're happy to cook the whole satellite instead of burn a hole in it, then that's less of an issue.
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A "maser" attack?? :(
I do not think that work means what you think it means.
While you are looking up "maser" look up "Dunning -Kruger" as well.
The opposite of "insightful"
I looked up maser as you suggested, and one of the uses of a maser is: Masers are being used by a few countries as directed-energy weapons. [wikipedia.org] So what do you think "maser" means? Oh wait, I get it, you are the one suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Clever.
Well, I guess now we know... (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, I guess now we know that this was no weather satellite...
Re:Well, I guess now we know... (Score:4, Insightful)
While possible, it could also be something mundane like failure of station-keeping thrusters.
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All the conic-section fuels are unstable.
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All the conic-section fuels are unstable.
Except for the circle of course.
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All the conic-section fuels are unstable.
Except for the circle of course.
Now! Now! Let's not go off on a tangent.
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OH MY GOD, THE HYPERBOLIC FUEL IS SO UNSTABLE! It will lead to the explosions of every satellite in orbit! And it's so acidic it will eat through the fuel tanks, dripping killer toxic acid rain onto every surface on earth!! The world will end!
Or, perhaps, your device auto-corrected hypergolic, which is to say a chemical combination that self-ignites when the two substances are brought into contact with each other?
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Yeah, yer right, why would the Air Force and Navy need weather satellites.
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Yeah, yer right, why would the Air Force and Navy need weather satellites.
For target practice?
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Hit by space junk. (Score:4, Interesting)
chinese anti-satellite lasers (Score:2, Interesting)
Could be the latest test of the Chinese anti-satellite system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASAT_program_of_China
The Chinese aimed a high power laser at a U.S. satellite in 2006 (without damaging it), and blew up one of their own weather satellites in 2007. They have tested a number of anti-satellite systems since then.
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Perhaps. Where* was the satellite at or just before this event?
*INB4 In space.
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A 1um laser fired out of a 1m aperture
Why are you using a 1 meter aperture, and why are you not using such a large aperture for focus at a distant point?
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Re:chinese anti-satellite lasers (Score:5, Informative)
"A 1um laser fired out of a 1m aperture spreads to an 800m circle at an altitude of 800km"
You're off by a factor 1000. The divergence is about 1e-6 rad, which makes 0.8 m diameter at 800 km.
Now another issue is that satellites tend to be wrapped in gold-coated foil, which will reflect 99% of the light at 1 micrometer. It would be difficult to overheat the body of the satellite, although the solar panels might be damaged more easily.
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And you're telling me someone out there is firing a 500kW laser into space
Or a *lot* of smaller ones. Either way, multi-targeting or power, it would have to be someone with a lot of money and organization.
My Bad (Score:5, Funny)
Turns out those green laser pointers you get in the mail are a lot more powerful than you would think.
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Turns out those green laser pointers you get in the mail are a lot more powerful than you would think.
Ah, a beta tester for the North Korean anti-satellite laser system I see...
Re:My Bad (Score:4, Informative)
Obligatory XKCD. [xkcd.com]
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Great link. I was thinking of nearer objects (like a plane) with a powerful $300 laser, but it's interesting to see how much further you'd have to go to have a visible effect on the moon.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjaW3QM2Nb8
No obvious reason (Score:5, Informative)
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or humans left unobserved and unattended at night! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]
Shockingly just like SHC, except for the human part!
Confused (Score:2)
So which overlord should we bow down to this time?
Exploded over Americas, Cooling Failure? (Score:5, Interesting)
Its a warning shot... (Score:5, Funny)
...telling us to stay the hell away from their base on Ceres.
We should retaliate by beaming Youtube comments at them.
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Self-destruct charges. (Score:2)
Quick! (Score:2)
Make sure no EMP-hardened helicopters have been stolen from Monte Carlo!
The Kessler Effect (Score:4, Informative)
We may have just lost Space:
"The Kessler syndrome (also called the Kessler effect,[1][2] collisional cascading or ablation cascade), proposed by the NASA scientist Donald J. Kessler in 1978, is a scenario in which the density of objects in low Earth orbit (LEO) is high enough that collisions between objects could cause a cascade—each collision generating space debris which increases the likelihood of further collisions.[3] One implication is that the distribution of debris in orbit could render space exploration, and even the use of satellites, unfeasible for many generations.[3]"
Source WikiPedia
Re:The Kessler Effect (Score:4, Informative)
Did you read the Wikipedia article? "It is estimated that there are 300,000 pieces of space junk ranging from 1cm to 25cm, and on average one satellite is destroyed each year." I'm not sure why 23 more pieces would cause us to lose space.
They ALREADY figured out why - it's in TFA (Score:3)
From TFA:
Just what kind of questions was SpaceNews asking, that the satellite would explode in response? They should STFU pretty quick, before we lose everything in LEO!
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Re:Canada (Score:4, Funny)
Aliens.
Re:Canada (Score:4, Funny)
I miss the good old days, when you knew to blame everything on the Axis of Evil, and you could solve all our problems by bombing Iraq.
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Nah, it was Eisenhower in the 50's. I like Ike.
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Stuxnet
Re:fixed it for ya (Score:4, Funny)
It takes a lot of energy to change the weather. Some of it must have leaked.
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Space heaters are fire hazards.
Re:Conspiracy theories (Score:5, Informative)
The Russian politician was far from obscure, well known and very vocal as a matter of fact. He was also against Putin and Putin's nut job attempts at bringing back the Cold War. He was someone we like, not someone we'd want to kill.
Your conspiracy theory only makes sense if you know absolutely nothing at all about what's actually going on.
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Or are you being insufficiently cynical? We might want a new cold war as well - cold wars are wonderful excuses to tighten the screws on your populace, and ours is starting to slowly wake up to the fact that all the "anti-terrorist" policies we've implemented in the last decade+ are fairly ineffective against terrorists, but *extremely* useful for suppressing legitimate dissent and undermining democracy. Start a nice theatrical cold war though and they could probably get away with putting all those empty F
Re:Conspiracy theories (Score:5, Funny)
Your conspiracy theory only makes sense if you know absolutely nothing at all about what's actually going on.
That's the very best kind of conspiracy theory.
Re:Conspiracy theories (Score:4, Informative)
That Russian politician was part of the Yeltsin administration that Putin had promised immunity to when he took control. This killing is very scary politically for what it means.
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Hmmm...so those 50,000 people marching through Moscow's government district in memory of the pol, and braving Putin's secret police and other semi-evolved Simians, are doing what, exactly? Going to a picnic?
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Well, I know this sounds weird, but during a conflict the U.S. Military and Russia's and China's are not going to be relying on commercial weather satellites. Something about they possibly being pwned by the enemy. Militaries worry about these sorts of things, clearly you have never been in one.
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"clearly you have never been in one"
Actually I was one of the first from the US in Vietnam. Not an enthusiast tho. Military enthusiasts seem oddly lacking in humor, particularly struggling with irony and sarcasm. Yes, that includes the uniformed groundpounders and the suits who think up 'weather' satellites. That lack of humor, which includes most military, government, religious and dictator types, is one of the great tragedies of civilization.