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Science

Carl Sagan, as "Mr. X," Extolled Benefits of Marijuana 263

New submitter Colin Castro writes with an exceprt from the San Francisco Chronicle that reveals a different side of Carl Sagan: MarijuanaMajority.com founder Tom Angell spent a few days this summer in the Library of Congress researching the iconic American astronomer, astrophysicist, cosmologist and author and has come away with a bounty. Angell says he found some never-before-released writings on marijuana policy from the author of classics such as 'Contact' and the TV show 'Cosmos', which is the most widely watched series in the history of American public television. ... I am convinced that there are genuine and valid levels of perception available with cannabis (and probably with other drugs) which are, through the defects of our society and our educational system, unavailable to us without such drugs,' Sagan wrote in 1971, under the name Mr. X.
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Carl Sagan, as "Mr. X," Extolled Benefits of Marijuana

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  • 1996 called (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 09, 2014 @02:24PM (#48105541)

    They want their Carl Sagan news back.

    • Slashdot: yesterday's news today!

      • Re:1996 called (Score:5, Informative)

        by nbauman ( 624611 ) on Thursday October 09, 2014 @03:00PM (#48105911) Homepage Journal

        Yeah, I knew that. I heard Lester Grinspoon give a lecture in which he talked about Carl Sagan smoking pot. It might have been in 1996.
          http://motherboard.vice.com/bl... [vice.com]

        Funny thing is, I went to Colorado this March for a medical conference which actually had a panel on marijuana. Denver is a great place, finally pot is legal, people were offering me grass, and I couldn't smoke any because I had to work.

        Useful tip: Leela's European Cafe is a great bar.

        Another useful tip: The Colorado newspapers checked and no one has ever been arrested in Denver airport for trying to bring pot home, airport screening notwithstanding.

        • Grain of salt: A lot of people have been arrested in various California airports for trying to bring pot home.

      • Re:1996 called (Score:5, Informative)

        by pspahn ( 1175617 ) on Thursday October 09, 2014 @06:46PM (#48107693)

        What's even worse is that a story like this is still even news.

        I was a senior in high school in 1997 when I did my own research and found the evidence that marijuana prohibition has cost our society dearly. I knew it as truth back then; my paper was called "Be Wise, Legalize".

        It's taken over 15 years since then for us humble folks from the cowtown that is Denver to change things. If you've been here even for just the last 3-4 years, you've seen the amazing economic benefits of legalizing cannabis.

        How did it take this long to realize this, and why is a 40+ year old quip from a smart person regarding cannabis reform still fucking newsworthy? Has nobody been paying attention?

        • Re:1996 called (Score:5, Interesting)

          by sound+vision ( 884283 ) on Friday October 10, 2014 @12:00AM (#48109023) Journal
          Frankly I think it's a matter of more people now have actually tried it, and the old hardheads are drying out. The Time magazine poll from 1969 put the *lifetime* use of cannabis among the US population at somewhere in the low single-digit percentage - I want to say around 2% but I'm sure you can look it up if you need the exact number. It definitely shocked me. This was already many years into the hippie movement, so weed was firmly embedding itself into the pop-culture mythology, but how many people who weren't hippies had used it? Very few - only the most open-minded.
          Lifetime-use numbers did skyrocket through the following decades, reaching near to 50% by 2000. But politically it was/is still a very loaded issue. It's something that's easy to ignore and maintain the status quo, but political suicide to suggest to change, until it becomes such a *big* issue that the number people who know someone who's been fucked by prohibition gets to be bigger than the number of self-righteous assholes who won't listen. Gallup literally did a double-take in 2012 or 2013 when their polls showed, for the first time, that over 50% of the US favored legalization. They had to run the poll a second time. With stats like these rolling in, the political trepidation around this topic will begin to dissolve in short order. I think we've now reached the tipping point, just 40 years later than everyone thought. Presidents and governors now admit that they've smoked pot.

          Revolutions happen from the bottom up, not the other way around.
  • by i kan reed ( 749298 ) on Thursday October 09, 2014 @02:27PM (#48105579) Homepage Journal

    Sure, if you smoke pot, you might end up like Carl Sagan, but you could also end up like Obama, Bush, or Clinton.

    Do you want your teen to grow up and have 27% approval ratings? I thought not.

    • Sure, if you smoke pot, you might end up like Carl Sagan, but you could also end up like Obama, Bush, or Clinton.

      Do you want your teen to grow up and have 27% approval ratings? I thought not.

      Marijuana must be much more potent than I thought. Clinton didn't inhale and look what happened. [youtube.com]

  • >> Carl Sagan Extolled Benefits of Marijuana

    After hearing Sagan prattle on about "billions upon billions of stars" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan#Phrase_.27billions_and_billions.27), is anyone really surprised?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 09, 2014 @02:45PM (#48105789)
      Carl Sagan was sexually molested by a dolphin.
      A male dolphin.
      Not that there's anything wrong with that.

      A frustrated romance of Sagan's played a small role in Lilly's most famous dolphin study. One night in St. Thomas, Sagan dined at a remote mountaintop restaurant. The hostess caught his eye. She was an attractive young woman with dark hair and a healthy, tomboyish quality. Her name was Margaret Howe. She told Sagan that she was bored. Her job as a hostess was evenings only. She wanted something else to occupy her on the island.

      Sagan tried to get Howe into bed. Howe rebuffed him, but the meeting had one result: Sagan introduced Howe to anthropologist Gregory Bateson, who was then running the St. Thomas facility. This led to a job and plunged Howe into one of the most unusual experiments of the 1960s.

      In the summer of 1965, Howe lived in the company of "Peter," a male dolphin, 24 hours a day, six days a week in a simplified flooded house. There are surreal photographs of Howe working efficiently at a desk or chatting on the telephone, eyed curiously by a dolphin as her whole environment is sopping in 24 inches of water.

      "A dolphin is more like a shadow than a roommate," Howe said. The thing would stay by her all day and never leave. She could talk on the phone for hours. The dolphin wouldn't get bored. It wouldn't leave. As weeks passed, Howe was subject to depression and crying jags. "I have found that during the day I will find any excuse to get out of the flooded room," she wrote in her diary. (Lilly meanwhile was contemplating a flooded car for the future bi-species society.)

      Peter began exhibiting courting behavior. He lightly nibbled Howe's legs, getting erections, and rubbing against her ardently. As a matter of expediency, Howe took to giving the dolphin hand jobs. Peter would "reach some sort of orgasm, mouth open, eyes closed, body shaking, then his penis would relax and withdraw." Dolphin libidos being what they are, this had to be repeated two or three times; then, finally, the dolphin could concentrate on its lessons.

      That made for a pretty good conversation stopper. Otherwise the experiment's results were debatable. It seemed that Peter learned to say "hello" and "ball" and parrot consonant sounds. When Howe asked Peter to get the ball, he would often get the cloth.

      * * *

      After this experiment, Sagan visited St. Thomas and played a game of catch with Peter. Sagan threw the ball to Peter, and Peter dove under it and batted it back with his snout. His aim was as accurate as a human's. Then, after a few volleys, the dolphin began returning the ball far to the side of Sagan. Peter was toying with Carl, performing an "experiment" of his own. Figuring that two can play that game, Sagan retrieved the ball one last time and held it, treading water.

      For about a minute, both mammals stood their ground. Peter gave in. He swam into Sagan's side of the tank, circling him, repeatedly brushing past him. This puzzled Sagan. It didn't seem like the dolphin's tail flukes had brushed him. Then he realized the dolphin had a hard-on.

      The frustrated triangle of Sagan, Howe, and Peter was worthy of Sartre. There was a further twist. Peter was one of Lilly's ex-actor dolphins. Sagan had been propositioned by Flipper.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 09, 2014 @02:48PM (#48105805)

      The fact that you call this "prattle" illustrates Sagan's point - because of his altered perception, he was able to grasp the magnitude of what he was working with. Smaller minds more easily dismiss it as foolish and inconsequential because their brains just can't handle the idea of "billions upon billions".

      I mean this in the nicest possible way - go smoke some weed and stare up into the stars. It helps put things into perspective.

      • So who is to say which perception is actually the correct one?
        • You are assuming that there is a singular 'correct' perspective, when there can be benefits to taking in multiple perspectives.
          • He didn't address perspective. Two people can perceive the same thing and due to differing perspectives come away with different views.
        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by lgw ( 121541 )

          Brain chemistry. There's a "sense of the profound" that's a product of brain chemistry. It can happen naturally on those rare occasions when you actually learn something profound. Or, you can smoke pot*, and have the same "sense of the profound" from whatever random crap you happen to be thinking. This is not a new kind of perception, it's a chemical illusion, no more valid than the brain chemistry that makes you hear voices, or makes you unable to stop obsessing on stupid shit.

          *It's likely that all or

          • by Mr. Slippery ( 47854 ) <tmsNO@SPAMinfamous.net> on Thursday October 09, 2014 @03:30PM (#48106265) Homepage

            This is not a new kind of perception, it's a chemical illusion

            And what sort of perception is not "a chemical illusion"? Is the feeling you get when you comprehend Cantor's diagonalization proof an illusion? The feeling you get from listening to the music of Bach? The feeling you get when you look up and see a meteor streak by? Everything you experience supervenes on neurochemistry, and a cannabis experience is no less valid on that basis than any other.

            • by lgw ( 121541 )

              In order to have any rational approach to living in the universe, you have to assume some fundamental stuff - basically that induction works (sense data may be inaccurate, and occasionally way off, but there's some objective universe and some validity in our sense of it). If you accept that axiom, then science works and there's no mystery at all to this - you're tricking your brain into believing that random crap is profound, full stop.

              If instead you reject that axiom, then there's no basis for rationality

              • by king neckbeard ( 1801738 ) on Thursday October 09, 2014 @04:43PM (#48106861)
                Our brains are very bad at handling big numbers, and it is quite often a limiting factor in our ability to grasp certain concepts. If your brain doesn't work correctly (which it doesn't with billions), then you might trick it into accepting the truth, or at least something closer than the truth. Whether or not marijuana or other drugs do that, and if they do, for which people, is a different story, but you are assuming that your sober state of mind is anywhere near rational, which suggests you've never actually been around a human being for an extended period of time.
              • Why do you assume it's just a trick? And how do you reach that conclusion just from the premise that induction works? Psychoactive drugs change how the brain functions. That's as accurate of a statement as you can make about mind-altering drugs in general. Whether your perception is more accurate or less is not implicit, and you give no evidence or logic to back up your assertion that marijuana's effect on one's sense of profundity is just a "trick".

                Little kids think all kinds of "random crap" is profound
          • X100 with LSD.

            I used to think that it was important for people to experience the drug "sense of profound" to get an understanding of what your brain should feel like in "deep mode." Later, I realized that you can get this "sense of profound" watching e.g., inane TV show while high; thus, in fact, the chemical modification was useless. Better off not wasting your time with the drugs, just get on with trying to learn how to think.
          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            Is it a false sense of the profound or is it a momentary access to the profound in the ordinary? Some of the great discoveries in science have come from taking a long hard look at something that was thought to be mundane and well understood.

        • Probably the one which aligns with objectively measurable facts about the nature of our universe.

          Than again there are many perceptions which are at least superficially so aligned, but even in that case the ones that dismiss other perfectly valid perspectives as "prattling on" are likely still wrong.

        • by sjames ( 1099 )

          Correctness may be hard to show, but we can at least ballpark utility. Sagan had an award winning television series several successful books, many awards for achievements in science and education, and is recognized by practically everyone. The dude that calls it prattle has...

      • If you don't want to alter, just go out into the deep country. The effect is much the same. I've done both.
        Most people haven't seen the ribbons of change in the Milky Way with their own eyes. It inspires awe regardless.

  • by bluefoxlucid ( 723572 ) on Thursday October 09, 2014 @02:31PM (#48105633) Homepage Journal

    I am convinced that there are genuine and valid levels of perception available with cannabis (and probably with other drugs) which are, through the defects of our society and our educational system, unavailable to us without such drugs

    So wait, Carl Sagan is saying our school systems and our culture are so fucked up that we need drugs to understand what the fuck we should actually be thinking?

  • by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Thursday October 09, 2014 @02:34PM (#48105663) Homepage Journal

    Nobody thinks of the economic impact of freeing millions and millions of American citizens from indentured servitude.

    How will the prison industrial complex get cheap labor if we legalize MJ, which is used to imprison non-whites and seize all their assets without warrants?

    If the South has to give that up, it could be the end of the plantations!

  • Posted by timothy on Thursday October 09, 2014 @02:20PM

    Sorry Timothy, you're a couple of hours too early to get posted. ..or perhaps we are not in the same time zone.

  • Saganesque Space Dub (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Scottingham ( 2036128 ) on Thursday October 09, 2014 @02:37PM (#48105701)
    I'm in a group that takes his philosophy of science...and marijauana...and spreads it via some pretty spaced out electronic music.

    We're called the Sagan Youth Boys. Check us out on Soundcloud for a taste. https://soundcloud.com/sagan-y... [soundcloud.com]

    Our 2nd album is coming out in a few months that'll be a hard sci-fi concept album based on a manned mission to Enceladus.


    /shameless plug
  • What twenty years of research on cannabis use has taught us [addictionjournal.org]

    Read the full study [wiley.com] in the journal Addiction

    What twenty years of research on cannabis use has taught us

    In the past 20 years recreational cannabis use has grown tremendously, becoming almost as common as tobacco use among adolescents and young adults, and so has the research evidence. A major new review in the scientific journal Addiction sets out the latest information on the effects of cannabis use on mental and physical health.

    The key conclusion

    • by UnknownSoldier ( 67820 ) on Thursday October 09, 2014 @03:03PM (#48105947)

      > Adverse effects of acute cannabis use
      - Cannabis does not produce fatal overdoses.

      Indeed! There is no LD50 for Cannabis that I'm aware of ...

      It is hypocritical that some far worse drugs have social acceptance such as caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol, while safer drugs [wikimedia.org] are socially ostracized.

    • I dunno. Lots of association-or-causation questions there.

      I read Nora Volkow's review article in NEJM. Here's a good article in MedPage Today commenting on it. http://www.medpagetoday.com/Ps... [medpagetoday.com]

    • the scientific journal Addiction

      That's sound like an unbiased source.

      Even if we take all of those adverse affects at face value, they're either statistical noise or questionable casual link. It's not like smoking tobacco where the odds of developing lung cancer go up 23 times that of non-smokers. It's also not like alcohol, where tens of thousands of people die from overdose alone each year.

      • Why don't you read the study for yourself, or look into the veracity and quality of the journal.

        • Veracity is not a property of an academic journal. It can refer to a statement. For an example of a statement lacking veracity, consider the assertion that 'does not produce fatal overdoses' is an adverse effect of cannabis.
        • I did. It's not a study, it's just a review of other cherry picked studies.
        • Did and did.

          I do recommend reading it! It is a concerted effort to try to find problems with cannabis use in the mountains of research produced over the last 50 years, with scant results, requiring a fairly low bar for most of them to be admissible.

          Lets look a couple of the claims:

          "Regular cannabis smokers have a higher risk of developing chronic bronchitis."

          What is the evidence they have for this? Well what their cited study (also a study of studies like theirs) actually found was "No consistent associatio

    • You missed a few "we don't know whether the link is causal" disclaimers there - namely all the ones related to psychological effects. We do know that regular users are at a higher risk of being diagnosed for a number of psychological issues, but those conditions could also easily be preexisting predispositions which increase the appeal of the drug. Seems to me a drug that includes calming and a general sense of well-being among it's primary effects could have a great appeal to an undiagnosed or prepsychot

  • That carl Sagan was a supporter of cannabis and used some himself is not news. SO "reveal a different side" is pure marketing BS, as this side was at least publicly known by 1999 for his bio. They only found a few "more" writing of sagan extolling MJl. No scoop here.
  • 1999 slashdot (Score:5, Informative)

    by wbr1 ( 2538558 ) on Thursday October 09, 2014 @03:46PM (#48106437)
  • I knew there had to be some correlation here. One look at the tremendous amount of astrophysicists surrounding the MacArthur bart station in oakland is all you need.
  • Check out the influence Sagan had on Neil DeGrasse Tyson:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com]

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