AIDS Origin Traced To 1920s Kinshasa 162
An anonymous reader writes: A new study published in Science (abstract) has traced the origin of HIV/AIDS back to Kinshasa in the 1920s. The authors say Kinshasa, now in the Democratic Republic of Congo, was then undergoing explosive population growth while supporting an abundant sex trade. These factors, combined with the use of unsterilized needles at health clinics and the railways moving a million people in and out of the city each year, conspired to start the pandemic. "HIV is a mutated version of a chimpanzee virus, known as simian immunodeficiency virus, which probably made the species-jump through contact with infected blood while handling bush meat. The virus made the jump on multiple occasions. One event led to HIV-1 subgroup O which affects tens of thousands in Cameroon. Yet only one cross-species jump, HIV-1 subgroup M, went on to infect millions of people across every country in the world."
i've been there (Score:3)
i was across the river back in 1997. Ironically one of the soldiers i was with said that if he was going to get AIDS, he wanted to get it right there at the source
climate change (Score:3, Funny)
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Well more accurately I think it is that they are denying that HIV causes AIDS.
I disagree that the deniers have moved on to something else. Shit, the Catholic church still claims condoms cause AIDS. And most of the religious right claims it only affects homosexuals.
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So how is this the fault of the Catholic Church again?
Because people who didn't listen to Catholic teachings against fornication, for some reason still listened to old Catholic teachings against contraception?
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there aren't a lot of people that do the 'verify with an hiv/aids test' in a meaningful way because it can take 6 months from being infected to it being detectable...
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Oh, and raping little virgin girls won't cure AIDs. As long as the Catholic Church speaks against contraception, the Catholic Church can and should be hold responsible for any and all consequences, such as the spread of AIDS. And yes, that includes rapes carried out from desperation as a result of said spread.
There's a more general point here: you can't wield power yet disown the consequences. Moving from a bunch of selfish, irresponsible individuals a
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Somebody should sit down with you and explain this, because you are seriously fucked up in your thinking.
I've been jealous and angry, never murdered (Score:2)
I've been jealous and I've been angry, but I've never killed anyone. Just because you have a feeling doesn't mean you have to do whatever comes into your head. I've thought "I'd like to fuck her" and "I'd like to punch him in the mouth", and chose to do neither. Reptiles may not have the ability to make such decisions, but mammals do.
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The problem is that people are much better at following the "don't use condoms" commandment than they are at "don't fuck anyone but your spouse" commandment... and this is widely known. At this point, promoting both, with full knowledge that one is going to be followed but another is not, is borderline criminal.
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Oh, and raping little virgin girls won't cure AIDs. So how is this the fault of the Catholic Church again?
Because raping little virgin boys won't cure AIDS either.
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Its a troll because it was worded as if the Vatican was doing it, not some local church in Africa. Good lies often have a seed of truth.
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Well more accurately I think it is that they are denying that HIV causes AIDS.
I disagree that the deniers have moved on to something else. Shit, the Catholic church still claims condoms cause AIDS. And most of the religious right claims it only affects homosexuals.
No, the catholic church does not claim condoms cause AIDS. It does state that certain types of condoms, like lambskin and other natural conds, have microscopic pores that are too small for sperm to pass through thus preventing pregnancy but not too small for the HIV virus to pass through, thus allowing transmission of HIV. It seems that the medical community is in agreement with them on that.
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Ah, a male can get AIDS from a woman, particularly if one or the other of you has another STD. More to the point, the whole issue with "AIDS-infected" people is that you generally can't tell them from normal people for years after they become contagious, this doesn't have much use for married people who's partner strays -- or even for most Americans who's courtships average from 6 to 18 months (
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I do partially retract my statement. The catholic claims were that aids could pass through condoms due to how small it is, and thus by using condoms and believing you were protected, you were spreading the disease. The first claim is flatly false, and the second is somewhat true. You are more at risk by having sex with a condom, then not having sex at all. But the fact is abstinence-only policies are just not going to work, people are going to have sex. And the Catholic policy on anti-condom even for healt
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I've read that the first is partly true: latex condoms will stop HIV, but condoms made of other materials (no idea how common those are in other areas) may let it through.
Re:climate change (Score:4, Interesting)
It's called AIDS denial but it's more technically HIV Denial, they deny that HIV leads to AIDS, and instead say AIDS is caused by Sleeping around / sharing needles etc etc. Foo Fighter front man David Grohl was big on this nonsense for a while back in the early 2000's
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Yea he was pretty big on it for a while, throwing concerts around it and everything, then one day randomly he started acting like all that never happened. If you google it you can find a little info about his aids denying past
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So remember: (Score:4, Insightful)
HIV made a cross-species jump in the 1920s, and went on to kill millions.
But Ebola couldn't possibly mutate enough to survive slightly longer when exposed to air.
I feel much safer now.
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So, one virus did one thing, so why can't another do something completely different?
Seriously, which species are affected and the mode of transmission are wildly different. There's no useful connection between these two issues.
Re:So remember: (Score:4, Insightful)
The reason AIDS has been so prolific is how long people carry it before showing symptoms , this makes for a long period of time during which they can transmit the disease. Ebola is much more efficient and kills much faster, ==>> much less time to spread the disease
Are we sure it is blood/meat contact? (Score:1)
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Consumptions of infected simian meat has been the explanation for a very long time. Why does everyone seem surprised?
Because, at the same time, we've been told HIV can't spread orally.
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I don't think " HIV can't spread orally" necessarily applies to actually consuming infected meat. Then again, it's not the consumption of the meat that's being blamed - it's direct exposure to infected blood while handling fresh chimp carcases in order to prepare the meat.
Re:Are we sure it is blood/meat contact? (Score:4, Insightful)
Consumptions of infected simian meat has been the explanation for a very long time. Why does everyone seem surprised?
Because, at the same time, we've been told HIV can't spread orally.
Well since we don't routinely butcher and eat people, I imagine they felt they could leave that method out of the pamphlet. However blood-blood contact is also a known, disclosed method of transmission. It's just a lot less common in humans than sexual contact.
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There is a risk that HIV can spread orally to someone with gingivitis (bleeding gums), and I wonder if the jump from bush meat to humans in 1920s might have happened when someone with gingivitis ate some bloody bush meat.
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Because, at the same time, we've been told HIV can't spread orally.
If you have cuts, scratches, or open sores in your mouth, it certainly can.
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Butcher has an open wound, during the course of his work simian blood makes contact with said wound, ==>> Transmission complete,
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Equally plausible explanation:
Butcher creates an open wound while carving the raw bushmeat, either for self consumption or for sale to others, ==> transmission complete. Think of the last time you had an accident cut yourself cutting food and there you are.
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last time I accidentally cut myself I wasn't handling food, I was cutting steel framing with a hacksaw and caught a bit of burr. It's still in my arm two weeks later.
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Consumptions of infected simian meat has been the explanation for a very long time. Why does everyone seem surprised?
Because, at the same time, we've been told HIV can't spread orally.
Uhm, I think you've gotten the concept of Oral Sex wrong, if you think it is largely similar to daily consumption of meat...
Re:Are we sure it is blood/meat contact? (Score:4, Interesting)
Whenever someone says something really flat and sorta elliptical like "orally," we gotta get clear about this too -- HIV cannot be spread by kissing. It can be spread by oral sex however, and can be spread by mouth-to-mouth contact when other factors are in play.
HIV exposure from dental work is actually a really common risk factor. In fact, the very first known case of iatrogenic HIV infection [wikipedia.org] was from a dental office.
It's generally accepted you can't get it from kissing, but kissing, eating food, eating raw food, eating bodily fluids, oral contact in the presence of bodily fluids, and oral contact associated with cuts or open sores -- for example, florid herpes -- are all really different vectors.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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it's still called the gay flu, I've got a Coronet educational video somewhere that discusses sexual relationships and why sticking your willy in another man's bum is so dangerous - 'cos the first time it happens you'll catch teh plague!!1one
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obviously.
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Not a single Well documented case.... big difference. I'm sure humans have been getting and dying from AIDS as long as they've been handling simian meat over there, but it would always die off with only a few humans infected. It took a busy sex trade and globalization to really get things going and create what we now know as AIDS.
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The theory is that the intensive economic development of Africa, beginning at the start of the 20th century, created the only environment in which the nonvirulent SIV could make several animal-to-human transmissions, sust
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Unlike what you may believe the amount of people who have sex with animals is very few and the amount of people that have sex with wild animals approaches zero.
On the other hand a huge amount of people do hunt and handle the corpses of misc. wild animals (called "bush meat" in the story)... And even people in industrial nations (with controlled breeding programs) still die of meat-carried diseases that proper handling and cooking would simply eliminate.
Just ask yourself: what is most likely?
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the amount of people that have sex with wild animals approaches zero.
You are obviously too new to this internet thing, otherwise you would be at least aware of the 90's sensation that was dolphinsex.org...
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yeah, it's so rare they make jokes out of it in shows like South Park where they pick the most niche activities like ziplining, roadtripping, declaring war on other countries and fucking chickens and rip them a new one. ::rolleyes::.
bush meat? (Score:2)
Did they eat chimps for food?
Or worse.... wait that's unthinkable!
Re:bush meat? (Score:5, Funny)
Monkeys for nothing, but the chimps are for free.
12 Monkeys (Score:1)
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"I'm in insurance."
Eye Witness Accounts ??? (Score:1)
1920 was not that long ago - less than 100 years. Are there any eye witnesses who can report encountering someone who died of a mysterious wasting disease?
sounds like a plot for a movie. (Score:2)
::couhcoughOutbreakcoughcough::
So sorry, a bit Dustin Hoffman in here, setting my throat off.
Of course the authors never read... (Score:1)
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Okay, was there no monkey meat business before 1920s? Why did it make the jump only at that time? How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
Re:The story (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, was there no monkey meat business before 1920s? Why did it make the jump only at that time?
Globalization. The ease that the infected could move around is what spread the disease. The jumps likely happened before as well, but died out in the infected humans.
How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
What change? It's a simian virus. We are simians. You are requiring change when none is necessary. And it changed the same as the pig and bird flus.
Re: The story (Score:2)
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Re: The story (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci... [dailymail.co.uk]
oRLY?
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Cannot may not be the right word, but your article supports the idea that they do not make a habit of swimming, which was the fundamental point.
Great apes are not known for their swimming ability, and there have been cases of them drowning in zoos that use water moats to confine them.
Both the apes studied had been raised and cared for by humans in the U.S.
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Like everyone else on slashdot, I didn't read the entire original paper, so I'm speculating, but...
The virus probably did make the jump multiple times before, but it didn't spread because the people involved died quickly (not necessarily due to HIV, but due to the brutal nature of life in those places and times), and never made it into the metropolis that was Kinshasa (Leopoldville). Read 'King Leopold's Ghost' by Adam Hochschild to get an idea of how rough and brutal life was for the Africans in early 20'
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For this to be true, for millions of years, people infected with the chimp virus did not have sex with females and did not live in a village type community where they could spread the disease. Instead, they lived a harsh, secluded life, devoid of human contact before dying. Is that true?
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How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
The same way avian and swine viruses jump to humans: mutation.
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Okay, was there no monkey meat business before 1920s? Why did it make the jump only at that time?
Well, we don't know for sure that it made the jump only at that time, do we? It's just that the recent epidemics of one particular branch of retroviruses has been traced to this. But people started traveling more only recently, giving it more chance to spread. Perhaps there are bones somewhere in the jungle of someone who died from a related virus two centuries ago, only we haven't found them yet.
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How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
Long story short, it involves mutations in viral [wikipedia.org] proteins [wikipedia.org] that are responsible for counter-acting anti [wikipedia.org]-viral [wikipedia.org] proteins [wikipedia.org] (termed restriction factors) in human cells, that differ slightly from the chimpanzee versions due to an ongoing genetic arms race between the host proteins that block viral infections, and the viral factors that counter-act them to retain virus infectivity. There are also changes in the viral envelope proteins to help evade adaptive immune responses (recognition by immune cells and antibod
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Okay, was there no monkey meat business before 1920s? Why did it make the jump only at that time? How exactly does a virus change from a chimp version to a human version?
It made the jump because of the large local population, fed by modern transportation systems. Previously it hadn't been possible to support a million people in such a small area.
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AFAIK the virus can jump species anytime, but a newly jumped version is so badly adapted to its new host that human immune system suppresses it in a few weeks. However, if the virus just happens to jump to a new host in that time, the battle starts from scratch there. Immune response takes time, so if there's a steady stream of new victims
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Many years ago, relatively few people in Africa.
Few domesticated animals. Bushmeat normal part of diet.
Colonisation/"civilisation" - less deaths from disease/tribal wars.
More domestivated animals - more food - more Africans
Bushmeat relegated to occasional traditional treat.
Population rises, colonialists leave.
Medicine stays, governments collapse, foreign aid - more Africans
Not enough meat from domesticated animals - bushmeat consumption rises again
Now routine - first large wildlife declines, then small.
Eve
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If I wanted to hear deluded rantings I'd go to the local nuthouse.
Re:Doctor Mary's Monkey (Score:5, Funny)
If I wanted to hear deluded rantings I'd go to the local nuthouse.
Well, you ARE on Slashdot...
Re:Doctor Mary's Monkey (Score:4, Informative)
but unless people were having sex with chimps,
... and ...
Truth is nearly always stranger than fiction.
Oh my ...
The "vaccine cultured in simian livers" has been pretty much the accepted story for a couple of decades. No conspiracy theories necessary - just a desire to culture as much vaccine as possible in the shortest time possible without adequate funds to take (in retrospect) every reasonable precaution in an under-developed country.
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Ever hear of Occam's Razor? The simplest explanation is a natural cross species viral jump, and that is pretty much what probably happened.
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Enough. We know most Slashdot commenters who think they’re super smart saw Contact back in the theaters. Enough Occam’s Razor. You’re probably a primate that caused the jump.
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Sorry, kid. Contact wasn't published (I read the book, didn't see the movie) until I was graduating High School. I knew what Occam's Razor was long before that.
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If you are not deciding how to act in a geopolitical event or deciding major financial positions to take, you're probably only using Occam's Razor to shut down and censor other ideas.
In the cas
Re: Doctor Mary's Monkey (Score:2)
observance of Occams razor is traditional on slashdot. It'like you have this car that you love and every time you see it you run your hand up it from end to front.
Re:Doctor Mary's Monkey (Score:5, Insightful)
Because the only way to transmit HIV is through sex? As the article itself notes (I know, in our fast-paced age, you cannot be expected to read an entire article), transmission likely happened through blood while eating the meat. Much more plausible.
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He doesn't even have to read the article, it's right in the summary ("handling infected bush meat").
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Oh my ... I hadn't even considered the double entendre!
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As a species, we've been eating meat for a long, long time, and our digestive and immune systems have proven well-adapted to the preventing of cross-species viral contamination through that means.
While I was certainly being flippant with my "sex with chimps" comment, the facts surrounding virology and the development of the polio vaccine provide an altogether more probable, (and indeed, measured) means of disease transm
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Maybe our digestive ssytem has proven well adapted to that, but there are a lot of knives and cuts involved in the preparation of any meat.
Blood contamination while butchering is a very plausible transmission mechanism. Especially in areas where there are no enforced health guidelines, much less proper sanitization.
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In fact I know a guy who works as a butcher. He got badly sick at one point from exposure to blood from a butchered animal. Not sure if it happened because he had an open wound. It does seem to be an occupational hazard for butchers.
Re:Doctor Mary's Monkey (Score:4, Insightful)
A butcher contaminating himself with animal blood as a means of accepting a viable mutation is a much less likely lottery 'win'.
But people do win the lottery. And it's worth noting here that HIV crossed over numerous times some well before the 60s. It's not like it only happened once.
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As a species, we've been eating meat for a long, long time, and our digestive and immune systems have proven well-adapted to the preventing of cross-species viral contamination through that means.
What was the dental hygiene like in Kinshasa in the 1920s? Might not there have been some people with gingivitis (bleeding gums) who ate some bushmeat that was a bit rare/bloody?
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Bieber is Canadian.