Consciousness On-Off Switch Discovered Deep In Brain 284
An anonymous reader writes "One moment you're conscious, the next you're not. For the first time, researchers have switched off consciousness by electrically stimulating a single brain area. Although only tested in one person, the discovery suggests that a single area – the claustrum – might be integral to combining disparate brain activity into a seamless package of thoughts, sensations and emotions. It takes us a step closer to answering a problem that has confounded scientists and philosophers for millennia – namely how our conscious awareness arises. When the team zapped the area with high frequency electrical impulses, the woman lost consciousness. She stopped reading and stared blankly into space, she didn't respond to auditory or visual commands and her breathing slowed. As soon as the stimulation stopped, she immediately regained consciousness with no memory of the event. The same thing happened every time the area was stimulated during two days of experiments.
Wow! (Score:5, Funny)
That sounds like the experiments that my wife has been doin
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Funny)
Yes but your wife isn't using directed electrical signals to shut you down.
Your wife is using directed Sound signals to shut down you down.
completely different method. Definitely worth a separate patent.
Brain ZAP! (Score:4, Funny)
Citizen, you will be implanted with this brain massager free of charge. Please do not attempt to remove this device. That is all.
Re:Brain ZAP! (Score:5, Funny)
Hee hee! Oh I like that. Press the button again. Wait until he's chewing that spoonful. Now, replace the ice cream with castor oil. Let me press it! Let me press it!
Long Distance Flying (Score:4, Interesting)
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The problem with dystopian theories like this is bullets are cheap. If you've subjugated the public to the point that you can force expensive brain surgery on them, why bother? Just shoot the people you don't like.
Besides, there's a huge market for non-lethal weapons; if this works on everyone and incapacitates rapidly, government labs and defense contractors will be tripping over themselves to reproduce this effect through external stimulus. No surgery necessary. Woo...
Re: Brain ZAP! (Score:2)
Dead people leave long tails of hatred. Chronically ill or crazy people leave long tails of sadness and dependency.
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Shooting everyone makes a lot of waste to dispose of.
That's where Soylent Green comes in...
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The problem with dystopian theories like this is bullets are cheap. If you've subjugated the public to the point that you can force expensive brain surgery on them, why bother? Just shoot the people you don't like.
As technology gets better and better, especially at the rapid rate that it grows, exploiting this discovery may not always be that much more expensive.
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On the subject of intrusive government applications, I wonder if it would make prisons more or less humane. No revolts, no issues with control, no angst. Just hook people off of the thing for about three hours a day for feeding and exercising. Can someone sleep while uncounscious like that? (it sounds like a dumb question)
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I think rehabilitation part of prison is a joke, you are much more likely to become indoctrinated than rehabilitated. So that leaves punishment, you could consider having X years of your life taken of you as a punishment, it doesn't stop you aging.
This is a very scary concept, you could imprison anyone, take away there power argue, and still "feel good" about yourself because you didn't kill anyone.
Re:Brain ZAP! (Score:4, Interesting)
The punishment would still be the fact that your are deprived of years of your life. I think it would still suck pretty hard to essentially wake up one morning and find yourself 10 years older.
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Big Brother would also have to deal with citizens com
Wait... where am I? How did I get in this cell? Nevermind, you can't hear me through this gag. Damn.
but... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:but... (Score:5, Funny)
I have a few. whichever ones i successfully snatched off the playground. usually the slowest runners.
Re:but... (Score:5, Funny)
I have a few. whichever ones i successfully snatched off the playground. usually the slowest runners.
In case you haven't heard, there's a more fun way of getting kids.
Re:but... (Score:5, Funny)
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I have a few. whichever ones i successfully snatched off the playground. usually the slowest runners.
In case you haven't heard, there's a more fun way of getting kids.
Well I have my white van. I just need to write "Expensive Candy" on the side... Because lets face it, you cant ransom kids back to poor people.
Executive summary (Score:4, Funny)
So we have a bunch of male scientists who apparently didn't know about rufies.
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This one is harder to detect by the prosecution.
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Can't they detect the hole in her head?
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They're called Forget-me-nows.
Re: Executive summary (Score:2)
boobs (Score:2)
so, any idea how long your brain just went off?
This is scary (Score:3)
Very promising ... vs Re:This is scary (Score:3)
If it can be employed in surgery (putting aside the current implant requirement) it would be a surgical boon (might not be so good for anesthesiologists ;>)
Very promising ... vs Re:This is scary (Score:3)
Yeah, but the surgery is (usually) gonna hurt like blazes the instant the signal is stopped!
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Your head has very few pain receptors in it, neural surgery is pretty much painless after you get into the skull even with no anastasia at all, hence why they can probe the brain while you are full conscious and aware.
So, no, it isn't going to hurt like blazes.
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He was referring to whatever surgery the patient had been rendrered unconscious for (say, an appendectomy), not surgery to implant a device in the brain
Re:Very promising ... vs Re:This is scary (Score:4, Funny)
We've been doing all surgery with no Anastasia since 1918
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I wish I had mod points, I haven't laughed that hard in long time.
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It's a grace situation. Revolting, in fact.
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grave. Good grief. :)
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:( stupid autocorrect fixing my poor spelling
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I was under the impression that anesthesia doesn't work like a painkiller. It only reduces consciousness. The patient receives painkillers prior to the anesthesia wearing off in order to manage pain after becoming conscious. Since this would only take place of anesthesia, it would still be reasonable to provide painkillers before waking the patient up.
Re:This is scary (Score:4, Interesting)
If you want to knock people unconscious, there are already less invasive ways of doing it, like general anesthesia. Though it would be interesting to know whether general anesthesia operates by a mechanism related to this one, or is doing something else.
Re:This is scary (Score:4, Interesting)
If you want to knock people unconscious, there are already less invasive ways of doing it, like general anesthesia. Though it would be interesting to know whether general anesthesia operates by a mechanism related to this one, or is doing something else.
They have no idea... http://www.surgeryencyclopedia.com/A-Ce/Anesthesia-General.html [surgeryencyclopedia.com]
Having had anesthesia many times I think it is worse than most procedures. I feel fuzzy for months after GA. Still it's about the only game in town if someone is going to be carving on a person for medical reasons.
Re: This is scary (Score:3)
look into the research from Walter Reed hospital - only part of the brain is asleep. The rest of the brain experiences everything and really screws a lot of people up. Always get general plus spinal.
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General anathesia is actually quite dangerous. This could potentially make surgery a lot safer.
Re:This is scary (Score:5, Informative)
General anesthetic is actually a lot more crude than most people think. It's essentially a short-term induced coma, that's why they need to jam a breathing tube down your throat and it feels like you just gave Satan a blowjob when they bring you out.
This sounds like the first baby steps towards developing a drug-free method of dropping patients out of consciousness, maybe even with little to no side effects.
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Well, except for that hole in your head...
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Na, just a few little wires.
Whatcouldpossiblygowrong?
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Na, just a few little wires.
Whatcouldpossiblygowrong?
Whagobblypussywobblygarong.
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Re:This is scary (Score:5, Funny)
Forget implant devices. With enough mental training, Vulcans can stimulate this part of the humanoid brain just by pinching someone on the neck.
(Luckily, humanoids have very similar physiology in their nervous systems.)
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Uh... You do know that Vulcans aren't real. Right?
Pshhh! That's what *they* want you to believe.
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Right, but anesthesia or a wrench is not exactly the "kill switch" that this seems to be .
More precisely, both are more likely to be actual 'kill switches' than this new method. In both general anaesthesia and the old wrench to the back of the head, there is a non-trivial likelihood that both will end in the recipients death. This new technique is theoretically attempting to target the required part of the brain with far more accuracy and less collateral damage than existing methods of rendering a person unconscious.
I perceive it more like a virtual machine suspend.
Consciousness (Score:2, Flamebait)
Wow, if we discover the exact region and mechanism for how consciousness emerges from brain activity, then this, in my mind, is the final nail in the coffin of the Soul Hypothesis ( the religious explanation for consciousness being external to the brain, and as something that survives death ).
Of course, the religionists will carp on about how this study is all a big conspiracy with science finding or some other claptrap, but for the rest of us, this could be a major discovery!
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The soul is information. It doesn't have a physical location.
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So where's the information stored?
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How about this?
The soul of an individual is composed of the direct and indirect memories people have of one, while living and after death.
Most people's souls last two to three generations, and then we are just geat-great-grand-father Jason with no stories (I don't even know the names of my family that far back), forgotten other than by name, if lucky.
Some people's souls live forever, those enshrined in history, such as Abraham Lincoln.
That's how I see things.
I'm around to have fun and provide for my family.
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http://science.slashdot.org/st... [slashdot.org]
Its not like it was my idea, but thanks for proving that you're just an arrogant close minded douche.
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Um, no it doesn't. It simply proves that consciousness can be externally shut off.
I'm not going to go into actual religious discussion, save to say that this would have little if any impact on religion at all.
It might be a good thing to actually learn about what it is you're trying to get rid of before you start commenting on it.
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Why do you believe that consciousness must not emerge from brain activity for there to be a "soul"?
Why do you believe that there must be a religious explanation for a "soul"?
Whether or not there actually is a "soul", your provided definition of it doesn't require either of those to be true.
And it would be no less a major discovery if we found that we did have souls. Or that only some of us did. Or that we only got them at a certain age. Or only under certain conditions. Or that we could create them. Or dest
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I don't believe either way. It's not a binary choice, you (should) know.
Actual evidence? I was under the impression there were only theories, and if I beli
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Wow, if we discover the exact region and mechanism for how consciousness emerges from brain activity, then this, in my mind, is the final nail in the coffin of the Soul Hypothesis ( the religious explanation for consciousness being external to the brain, and as something that survives death ).
Feel free to believe whatever. Start with an unfounded assertion "there is no soul" and then use unrelated discoveries in a circular logic to justify your belief to yourself.
Of course, the religionists will carp on about how this study is all a big conspiracy with science finding or some other claptrap, but for the rest of us, this could be a major discovery!
You don't speak for the rest of us, if indeed, there is a class of people ("religionists") and another class ("the rest of us").
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Wow, if we discover the exact region and mechanism for how consciousness emerges from brain activity, then this, in my mind, is the final nail in the coffin of the Soul Hypothesis ( the religious explanation for consciousness being external to the brain, and as something that survives death ).
Of course, the religionists will carp on about how this study is all a big conspiracy with science finding or some other claptrap, but for the rest of us, this could be a major discovery!
And after you convince them that they were wrong about souls, you can then easily convince them that insectivores, Prosimians, and Marsupials* all have souls/whatever makes us human as well.
*wiki says: "The claustrum has a phylogenetic background appearing predominantly in insectivores, Prosimians, and Marsupials."
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Hmmm. A hint as to where to look for consciousness most similar to humans?
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Hmmm. A hint as to where to look for consciousness most similar to humans?
Nope! Only humans have Human(TM) Consciousness. You wouldn't want to weaken the rights we give ourselves by pointing to creatures that have similar traits, now would you?
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right. because logic and facts made all religions obsolete long time ago.
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Yes. that's because they are 100% made-up. Just as Santa Claus is inherently beyond the reach of scientific evidence.
You will never find evidence, that is, anything manifesting as objective reality, for a wholly illusory concept. You can, of course, drown yourself in delusion. We appear to be well designed for exactly that exercise, we even practice it most nights during REM sleep. And it's perfectly acceptable, socially sp
Does the robot have it? (Score:2)
Does the robot have it? (Score:2)
Ever heard of "Pause"? LOL
Interesting, but N=1 and... (Score:5, Interesting)
From TFA:
Anil Seth, who studies consciousness at the University of Sussex, UK, warns that we have to be cautious when interpreting behaviour from a single case study. The woman was missing part of her hippocampus, which was removed to treat her epilepsy, so she doesn't represent a "normal" brain, he says.
Normally a scientist will not ethically be able to put deep brain electrodes in a person, but this was likely part of a larger experiment related to the hippocampus surgery. It will be interesting to see if similar cases present similar behaviors and more interesting if the same thing happens in someone with a full hippocampus.
Re:Interesting, but N=1 and... (Score:5, Informative)
The original article seems to be conspicuously missing. Here is the pubmed reference (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24967698), but the link there is broken too and even browsing through the journal's archive doesn't bring up any reference to the article. Hopefully that gets fixed very soon.
Also, back when I was PhD student in neuroscience Crick and Koch's idea that the claustrum was the seat of consciousness was one of my class's favorite jokes- if it turns out they were actually right I'm gonna be so f-ing mad.
Re:Interesting, but N=1 and... (Score:5, Interesting)
I find the whole think kind of surprising, since it is known that the whole brain doesn't go to sleep at the same time. Sleepwalking happens when part of it isn't asleep at all.
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Yes, but this isn't sleep. This is more like watching Fox News.
Can be stimulated via sternocleidomastoid (Score:5, Interesting)
I have been experimenting with this technique since the early 80s. It is possible to stimulate the claustrum via pressure along the sternocleidomastoid. By pinching this area it causes sympathetic nerve activity that can effective render someone unconscious. My colleague has perfected the technique to the point that he uses it at parties. Quite eerie, actually.
Peace. Stay healthy and have a long life..
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Re:Can be stimulated via sternocleidomastoid (Score:5, Insightful)
Vulcan neck pinch?
Re:Can be stimulated via sternocleidomastoid (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you sure that's the mechanism at work? "pressure along the sternocleidomastoid" sounds suspiciously like "put someone in a triangle choke/'sleeper hold'", which will cause them to pass out because it cuts off the blood supply to their brain.
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I believe the action is question is more proximal than the medial influence you infer.
So does this mean... (Score:2)
What is consciousness? (Score:2)
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That's an interesting interpretation of what happened.
I was also wondering why they said she was unconscious but not asleep. What is the technical difference that allows them to make this distinction?
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eyes open, unresponsive to stimuli (can't be woken up), no memory of entering the state
Fortunately, the switch it in the brain... (Score:2)
Let's not jump to conclusions. (Score:3, Informative)
These studies clearly demonstrate that the Cl is richly innervated with a wide and diverse array of neurotransmitters and neuromodulators. Lesion, stimulation and recording experiments demonstrate that the functional and physiologic capacity of the Cl is quite robust. A recurring theme of claustral function appears to be its involvement in sensorimotor integration. This may be expected of the Cl, given the degree of heterotopic, heterosensory convergence and its interconnectivity with the key subcortical nuclei and sensory cortical areas. The Cl remains a poorly understood and under investigated nucleus.
It makes sense that a major loss of function is associated with interrupting the Claustrum - but there are several nuclii in the brain - the Hippocampus being one. Claiming it is the 'one true center of consciousness' in the brain doesn't account for the countless studies which reveal just how complex the operation of our neural networks actually are, and may be premature.
References
[1]The claustrum: a historical review of its anatomy, physiology, cytochemistry and functional significance. Edelstein LR1, Denaro FJ. [nih.gov]
Scifi becomes reality (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure I've seen devices like this in science fiction shows. Though absent a very high quality auto-targetting, I can't see the real one having any use against an unwilling subject. I wonder if it also causes short-term memory loss?
Non Story (Score:3)
This is a non-story. One subject? Really? Let's seen an actual study with multiple subjects and some deeper analysis into what might be going on. As it stands this is a non-story.
Zapp Brannigan? (Score:2)
or should we say, Zap Brainnigan?
Fainting, conscious experience and consciousness (Score:2)
Having seen someone faint at the sight of blood (the lights went out instantaneously and they hit the floor like a sack of potatoes) this woman's experience doesn't quite match what I saw. The woman seemed still to have muscle tone to remain sitting upright. So this suspension of some sort of executive control/awareness/conscious experience needs a different name.
The NewScientist article said "To confirm that they were affecting the woman's consciousness rather than just her ability to speak or move, the te
an important unanswered question... (Score:2)
Neuroplastic Heaven (Score:3)
Doctor: For a little while.
Girl: Shall I go now.
Doctor: If you like.
I found other areas (Score:2)
Turns out that a lot of people, if you hit them on the point of their chin they lose consciousness. Most will lose consciousness with a simple tap to the temple. Seems like an easier off-switch to me.
So (Score:2)
Useful for research (Score:2)
Yes, but which area of claustrum... (Score:2)
Is responsible for creating consciousness INSIDE claustrum?
Re:Very interesting (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know, should we find it *what* exactly, you didn't really state that. Surprising? No, it's not, that's indeed the survival instinct taking over. In general your breathing is not conscious, although we have conscious control unlike for example your heart. But in general it's not possible for example to hold your breath until you are dead. There are some ways to hold your breath until you pass out, but the moment you do you start breathing again. (All this AFAIK)
It nearly always does (Score:2)
Whenever survival is at stake, consciousness is among the first wasters of valuable resources (energy) to be turned off, or at least substantially modified.. This is a principle, AFAIK.
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"Neat. Could be used during surgeries instead of anesthesia, or could be weaponized to disable enemy combatants."
Nobody would want that. You want to wound (not kill) the enemy soldiers, to bind enemy medics, food, transportation, logistics, field hospitals, pensions and lower morale.
If you zap them and go away, they will still be there fighting against you. If you take them prisoner, it's YOU who has to provide medics, food, transportation, logistics, field hospitals and get plenty of bad publicity on top.
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Neat. Could be used during surgeries instead of anesthesia, or could be weaponized to disable enemy combatants.
Sure, just capture them and subject them to brain surgery for the implant, then turn them lose so you can capture them easier next time.
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I would love to have selective memory wiping capabilities. I could wipe my memories of watching Sword Art Online and watch it again for the first time.
Re:I've been wrong this whole time (Score:5, Funny)
That's the Zzz spot, not the G spot.
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It's called marriage.