Low-Protein Diet May Extend Lifespan 459
sciencehabit writes "A new theory about the foods that can extend life is taking shape, and it's sure to be a controversial one. Two studies out this week, one in mice (PDF) and another primarily in people (PDF), suggest that eating relatively little protein and lots of carbohydrates — the opposite of what's urged by many human diet plans, including the popular Atkins Diet — extends life and fortifies health."
Eating relatively little extends lifespan (Score:3, Insightful)
Fixed that for you....
Yeah...whatever you believe today... (Score:3, Informative)
Low Fat, High Carb...okay...
Low Fat, Low Carb...oooh...hardcore...(thats what I did)...nearly died from that one...
Whatever diet you're on...make sure your body is ready for it, I
Yeah. It does work, but you need to be disciplined. Low protein? Nah...make sure you get enough B12...and You'll be fine.
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Also, our bodies are very poor at judging when to stop eating foods that are 50% fat and 50% carbohydrate as that combination almost never happens in nature, yet we find it in ice-cream/donuts/chocolate etc.
In addition, our bodies have no idea about long term health as once you get past reproduction age, evolution
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Care to mention some foods you stayed with?
Re:Yeah...whatever you believe today... (Score:4, Informative)
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Congratulation on the weight loss but I'm just curious, what was your weight at birth?
Re:Yeah...whatever you believe today... (Score:5, Interesting)
Low Fat, Low Carb...oooh...hardcore...(thats what I did)...nearly died from that one...
Yep, it's long been known that extremely high protein diets are bad for humans. [wikipedia.org] I actually RTFA, and in the mouse study, it was a 50% protein diet. Mice are herbivores, that much protein is effectively toxic for them.
So the mouse study doesn't show that low protein diet extends lifespan as much as a ultra-high protein diet reduces lifespan, which is not really news.
The second study was an observational study of humans, which joins a long list of such studies where you'll find something to support pretty much any nutritional hypothesis you can imagine.
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Maybe moderation might be a reasonable course of action rather than diets like the above.
Yes, I agree completely, Moderation IS very important. You MUST follow your body's own instincts.
Low protein extends life? (Score:5, Funny)
If this gets around to my girlfriends I'll sue...
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Tell them (your girlfriends) that the Paleo diet is the way to go - steak, bacon, fried veggies - good stuff.
Old people (Score:5, Funny)
Ron, an elderly man in Florida, owned a large farm for several years. He had a large pond in the back.
It was properly shaped for swimming, so he fixed it up nice with picnic tables, horseshoe courts, and some orange and
lime trees.
One evening the old farmer decided to go down to the pond, as he hadn't been there for a while, and look it over.
He grabbed a five-gallon bucket to bring back some fruit. As he neared the pond, he heard voices shouting and laughing with glee.
As he came closer, he saw it was a bunch of young women skinny-dipping in his pond.
He made the women aware of his presence, and they all went to the deep end.
One of the women shouted to him, "We're not coming out until you leave!"
Ron frowned, "I didn't come down here to watch you ladies swim naked or make you get out of the pond naked."
Holding the bucket up Ron said, "I'm here to feed the alligator."
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seriously I wish I had mod points. OT, Troll?... who cares... it was a total gem.
Misleading Summary; Less than exhaustive research. (Score:5, Interesting)
So, sort of, maybe, but not.
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Exactly
It's silly science. A very small sample set and a snapshot of their diet via a one time questionnaire. It's on one day what the participants surveyed think their diet is which is probably a bit off from reality (quick what percentage of calories did you eat from protein last week?).
You have to wonder what the point is?
" 6381 adults over 50 years old who were interviewed once about their diet as part of NHANES, a national survey of health and nutrition"
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You are, in all likelihood, going to survive at least 50 years, and less than 80. Fuck it. Eat what you want. Look like what you want. Smoke dope. Have fun.
Re:Misleading Summary; Less than exhaustive resear (Score:4, Insightful)
Any reasonable recommendations can only come from large, longitudinal studies, over multiple generations. You know, those that shape the food pyramid / WHO guidelines. And they do exist, and give pretty clear ideas. Such as that halving your meat intake is a good idea.
But I guess that's not exciting, news needs to either repackage (MyPlate) or go after highly fluctuating results from microstudies which is the latest research, but in the stage of formation (all these diet fads, X is bad for you, Y heals cancer, drink a glass of red wine a day [because a encyme in a petri dish did something], etc. ).
By the way, why does there need to be one right way of nutrition? Why can't we accept that multiple ways to obtain the basic building blocks are possible.
In the end, we can't be so off by so much: We have so many people living with such a big variety of foods, and they are doing pretty similarly well (i.e. get older than, and are healthy at, 65). The need to prove that everyones diet is completely wrong is ridiculous.
Re:Misleading Summary; Less than exhaustive resear (Score:4, Informative)
Any reasonable recommendations can only come from large, longitudinal studies, over multiple generations. You know, those that shape the food pyramid / WHO guidelines.
Bullshit. Look at the actual science. Endocrinologists can tell you how your body processes nutrients based on hormones. Hormones COMPLETELY control fat storage and use. Diet dramatically affects hormone secretion. As one put it: "Carbohydrate drives insulin drives fat storage"
Misleading summary (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's ignore the mouse study as that has little interest to human nutrition. From the second pdf: "our results show that among those
ages 50 and above, the level of protein intake is associated with
increased risk of diabetes mortality, but not associated with dif-
ferencesinall-cause, cancer,orCVDmortality."
Clearly people dying of diabetes are not on a low carb diet, so I dunno is this a desperate attempt from the corn farmers?
In South Korea... (Score:2)
Re:In South Korea... (Score:4, Funny)
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In North Korea all people do low protein diet.
In North Korea, Kim Jong-un's relatives are the dog's diet.
Most LC diets don't recommend eating a lot protein (Score:2)
EOM
"Mice could eat as much as they wanted" (Score:2)
Note this little gem buried in the article:
"All were allowed to eat as much as they wanted."
I think that's a pretty big caveat.
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The whole thing reads like the study was geared towards producing the headline.
gee, what a surprise (Score:2)
Food Scientists: OK, you guys, we admit it, we really don't have a freaking clue. Sorry. Just go eat whatever seems sensible.
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Food Scientists: OK, you guys, we admit it, we really don't have a freaking clue. Sorry. Just go eat whatever seems sensible.
In a perfect world, that's what would be said. But in a world where money is on the line, we'll get the same old mix of conflicting recommendations based on how and by whom the various organizations get paid.
Protein's Turn For Demonization (Score:4, Insightful)
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What I find interesting is that both the vegans (Fuhrman, McDougall, Ornish) and the low-carbers (Atkins, etc) all get great results for their patients, and the common factor seems to be the elimination of SUGAR (a carb) in the diet.
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However, regarding sugar: I have recently had to change my diet due to issues with digesting fatty foods. That has resulted in me eating foods with more carbs and sugar. I have lost abou
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Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Coming next week: (Score:2)
Bass O Matic meals extend life span -- but who wants to live extra years if that's what it takes?!?
Sounds like an attempt at population control (Score:2)
High carbohydrate, low nutrient diet is going to boost cancer rates.
Extends whose lifespan? (Score:4, Funny)
The cows [duetsblog.com]?
So we are like mice? (Score:5, Insightful)
As others, the study was done on mice, who are herbivores in the wild. They say what happens to them will also happen to us, but we have been eating meat a long while now.
I wonder if also applies to my cat? <scarcasm>I know cat's are predominately carnivores, but that shouldn't matter, right?</scarcasm>
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Yes what was the protein source- soybeans, meat, albumin, casein? It's hard to believe that all proteins are metabolically identical.
wooo! (Score:2)
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Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs! It's not just for breakfast anymore.
Sigh do you even RTFA? (Score:2)
It doesn't work for older people in the first place, and we're only talking IGF-1 cancer.
Look, want some useful science?
Vitamin supplements are mostly a waste of time, if you're not about to get pregnant or participate in that, and you're far better off eating a varied diet low in meat with more fruits and vegetables, and getting mild to moderate exercise.
There, free of charge.
Most of the rest is just noise.
Now, go get enough sleep and stop doing binge diets and binge drunks and stuff that stresses you out.
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noise? you make assertions without proof, and if you're referencing the much-bandied study led by Dr. G Lamas, that one was only looking at cognitive function and heart heath.
And even he admits vitamins of benefit in targeted populations with various malnutritions.
in short, cheap insurance at least. and at most could be some major benefits in other areas of health.
Or, put another way... (Score:2)
"High-Protein Diet May Get You To Heaven Faster"
See? Whatever you eat, it's win-win!
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Call me cynical if you want (Score:2)
Was the study sponsored by the sugar industry? (Score:2)
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Low carbohydrate diets have been misleadingly labeled "high protein" because they generally feature high amounts of meat. But really, total protein is flat from a 'normal' diet to a low carb one.
They should be actually renamed high fat diets, since carbohydrates are replaced with fat vs. protein. Excessive protein diets can lead to what's called rabbit starvation as a result of eating too little fat.
I have also lost weight this way and agree that eliminating sugary foods was easiest, followed by pastas an
The balance is not the issue. (Score:3)
More important is exercise and vitamins.
The thing is that the body can and does create its own protein, fat, and sugar. If it has to convert it is less efficient. However, our problem is not a lack of protein or carbohydrates. Our problem is a sedentary population that doesn't move enough to stimulate their metabolisms.
What is more, there are a great many fat people that are also malnourished due to specific vitamin deficiencies. Much of that is due to not having enough fruit and vegetables in the diet.
The problem with including more fruits and veg is that they're expensive especially for urban dwellers that are both farther from food sources and unable to produce their own.
What is more the cost of these foods has gone up faster then inflation in recent years. This forces people to rely more and more on cheap staple carbohydrate food sources. These sources are FINE. I am not arguing against them at all. However, they are not sufficient without supplements or additional food sources.
If you wish to improve the health of people living in modern countries... improve exercise... outdoor activities of any kind... ideally during the day. And lower the cost and increase the availability of fruits and vegetables.
For example... farmers in California are getting their water cut off. These same farmers produce a disproportionate amount of the nation's fruits and vegetables. Thus, any problem they run into will increase the cost and reduce the availability of those goods. Consider building the poor guys a dam or aqueduct so they can sustain production despite the golden state's continuing chronic mismanagement. Further, encourage people to grow their own gardens. There are backyards throughout the suburbs that are entirely sufficient to grow small gardens that can supplement their diets. That takes further pressure off the farms to provide produce to urban centers.
The idea is to just make produce cheaper and more readily available.
Car analogy (Score:5, Insightful)
Focusing on diet for human lifespan is like focusing on gasoline for car lifespan.
Studies have been done of places where people tend to live longer. Some common threads are: genetics, happiness, close community ties, everyday physical labor, low stress, diet and maybe a few other things.
Yeah sure, diet is in there; but if your Daddy died at 40, you're pissed off all the time, you don't know your neighbors and you spend 60 hours a day stressing in a cube-farm then the quinoa salad you ate probably won't help much. Go ahead though. It probably won't hurt; just don't expect miracles. Look at *all* the factors.
Only study worth quoting: BBC horizon s2013e06 (Score:5, Interesting)
Twin doctors, one eats nothing but fats and the other eats nothing but carbs, for a month. They document it, they work out, they do tests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programme... [bbc.co.uk]
The result (spoiler alert), either is not great. Eating only fat cannibalizes your muscles, and makes you not get any enjoyment out of food. Whereas eating only carbs makes you feel hungrier all the time.
But their conclusion had a twist, the main problem is processed foods that have a 50/50 mix of fat and carbs. An excellent example is whipped cream. Your body would reject you drinking pure cream, and also pure sugar. But mix them together, and you cant stop eating it! Same with many of our favourite foods, ice cream, doughnuts. All have the 50/50 mix that vendors long ago realized was the most addictive mix. Your body basically never gets the signal to stop eating.
Anyone who is interested should check it out.
http://kickass.to/usearch/hori... [kickass.to]
Atkins never promoted protein (Score:3)
"opposite of what's urged by many human diet plans, including the popular Atkins Diet"
Even Atkins followers seem to forget that it's not protein but FAT that is important in their diet. He clearly advised that excess protein will cause glucose to be created in your body and counteract the purpose of the diet.
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"lots of carbohydrates" doesn't mean "lots of bread, grains and pasta" - fruits and vegetables are a source of carbohydrates.
Basically, this is just confirming what we have already known for many years, but some of us refuse to admit: the best diet is one that is high in fruits and vegetables, and meat should be eaten in small portions (if at all).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet
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Re:Tried it already. It kind of flopped. (Score:4, Insightful)
The best diet is probably a balanced diet of about 1200 calories a day. The safest way to avoid getting hit by a car is not to walk across streets or drive a car. The safest way to avoid dying via plane is to not fly, etc...
Who the fuck wants to live like that?
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I'm not missing out on anything
Well aside from all kinds of delicious things you can do with meats.
You can't legitimately claim a vegetarian diet can be as varied as an omnivorous one can be. Your vegetarian diet is a strict subset of mine. Full stop.
Sure beet carpaccio is delicious, but its not beef carpaccio. You'll try one, I'll try both. And yes, you are missing out.
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As a meat eater, you miss out on most veggie dishes because you aren't looking for them. Again, I am missing nothing but the health problems.
Re:Tried it already. It kind of flopped. (Score:5, Funny)
"What health problems? My health is probably better than yours."
Is "Internet Healthy Guy" a new variation on "Internet Tough Guy"?
"My blood pressure could kick your blood pressure's ass!"
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"The ones that every doctor will tell you about. The ones that this very story is about."
Only if you over eat.
"Highly doubtful.":
neither you should should be talking about your person health. It's not good data, and it's irrelevant and you don't know what each other health is like.
"It doesn't have to be, but often it is and it will never be as healthy as a vegetarian diet."
Vegetarian can becomes over weight, and they can have there own set of health problems.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu... [nih.gov]
In short: A prop
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The brain interprets happiness/enjoyment as quite relative to previous life experiences. It's not a static relationship.
Whenever you try something new and find it's the "best thing ever" the brain recalibrates, and your previous "best thing ever" loses a little of it's enjoyment.
It's the same with enjoying food, the amount of enjoyment a vegetarian gets from their favorite vegetarian food is the same as a omnivore gets from their favorite meat-based food.
With the possible exception of someone who has just '
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You can't legitimately claim a vegetarian diet can be as varied as an omnivorous one can be. Your vegetarian diet is a strict subset of mine. Full stop.
You can't legitimately claim a noncoprophagic diet can be as varied as a coprophagic diet can be. Your diet is a strict subset of a coprophage's diet. Full stop.
Re:Tried it already. It kind of flopped. (Score:4, Funny)
Know how to find out if someone is a vegetarian? Just wait, they'll tell you.
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Hummm... nope. It is about a low-protein diet, not a vegetarian one.
Try to be more attentive and think before you speak.
I presume you only read the summary?
The actual study found that animal protein promotes mortality, while plant protein does not.
The study is linked up there at the top of the page, in case you want to read it.
Re:Tried it already. It kind of flopped. (Score:5, Insightful)
You can eat a tasty and balanced and varied diet on 1900 calories a day.
So, would you rather have a tasty diet and live till 88, or eat the same tasty diet, just more of it, and die at 68?
This is not the answer you would like, but I'll take 68 over 88 any day of the week
My experience in my family and relatives has been that while we are really good at extending life, it's all on the wrong end of the lifespan. I've seen too many relatives who once would have made it to maybe 70, and now spend their last 15 years as demented zombies, kept alive by the miracles of modern medicine. They have low cholesterol, low blood pressure, and are having their savings, retirement ans SS checks going ot the nursing home, while they luxuriate in their Depends, catheters, and whatever experimental meds they give to Alzheimer's patients to keep them alive in order to extract those last pennies. Seriously undignified and unnaturally drawn out. THere are fates worse than dying.
People in America get portions far larger then they need. People get used to over eating, so when they get a properly portioned meal they feel hungry, even though rationally they have enough.
While I don't disagree with you that Americans overeat, the concept of getting people to eat less in times of plenty is going to be difficult to achieve. And the slovenly Americans are not the only people with an overeating problem.
Re:Tried it already. It kind of flopped. (Score:4, Funny)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet
Unfortunately, if you stick to a Mediterranean Diet, you get stuck with a Mediterranean Economy . . .
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I call it the "Monsanto Diet"
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Not a problem when you have an ethanol fuel mandate to sop up any excess. Selling 5 cents worth of processed food in a box for 3 dollars is a big business- Monsanto doesn't do this but they are certainly an important link in the chain.
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I remember the "carbo-loading" fad. Man, that was a bad idea.
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Being thin may not be healthy.
However, being so fat that you no longer have a human shape certainly is unhealthy. The carb-centric mentality is a problem for many people and has done them nothing but harm.
On the other hand, the previous model more or less advocated moderation and balance. It was not broken and didn't need fixed.
We need to avoid the bogus political propaganda from vegan busybodies.
Re:Atkin's Diet (Score:5, Informative)
I'm pretty sure the Atkin's diet was ruled out by anyone with any knowledge of actual human health. The man died a fat, bloated fuck and doomed many of his blind followers to live the same.
Um, I'm not an Atkins proponent (been vegetarian since the seventies) but part of that was marketing by Atkins detractors. He slipped on ice and suffered a severe blow to the head. In the hospital, he contracted another condition (which escapes me at the moment) which caused bloating. There is an urban legend that militant vegetarians (which always struck me as an oxymoron, but never mind...) snuck in and got photos of Atkins on his deathbed as rather disingenious "proof" that his diet killed him.
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People like to say "Atkins" as an excuse to just eat bacon and protein bars.
Actually following the diet plan sensibly , is fairly healthy. Eating 20 grams of carbohydrates a day - to begin - and then ramping up slowly as you near and reach your ideal weight is fine -- as long as you don't use it as an excuse to eat slabs of bacon and cheese.
A grilled skinned chicken breast and a green vegetable is a great Atkins meal - and a good meal on almost any diet plan. Frying it and smothering it with bacon and ch
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Done right, the weight loss on Atkins is two-fold. You do burn fat from ketosis, but the primary means of weight loss through Atkins is simply eating what you would have eaten before - just without all of the empty carbs.
Want a cheeseburger for lunch? Have it. Just leave off the bun and onions.
Wanted chicken wings at the bar? Have 'em. Get them "naked" with a hot sauce instead of a sweet one.
Going out for steak? Fine. Trade the baked potato for a side ceasar.
As long as you don't use "because Atkins!"
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Riiight. Because the 150-175 calories from the bun is the tipping point on having a burger not the 300+ calories from just the fat from the beef (assuming 1/2lb. Of 85/15 beef). As the saying goes, that's being pennywise and pound foolish.
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The point that I was making is that it's silly to cut out 150 calories when the rest your meal is still like 1500 calories.
Uh... Most burgers aren't 1500 calories. Not even most combo meals are that bad. Drop the fries and bread and that's like 500 calories saved, about what most diets recommend for your deficit for weight loss.
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I think what he's saying is that it's not the calories, it's where they're coming from.
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But it is the calories. Eating 20,000 calories from protein is still going to make you gain weight.
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Your body needs protein, it needs fats and it needs ~SOME~ carbs.
In simple terms: In biology class we learned that the body releases insulin to do what? Reduce blood sugar... When you eat something with sugar in it (candy, soda, white rice, b
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Not exactly. What Adkins is doing is keeping you malnourished in carbohydrates, forcing your body to find them someplace. Your body cannot process the fat calories ingested effectively so they are eliminated, not being used. Seems that the easiest source of carbohydrates is your internal fat reserves to keep your blood sugar in the survivable range.
Problem is that you really are malnourished on Adkins; Lacking carbohydrates. That can lead to issues with kidneys and most other systems in the body. Plus,
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You're missing the point.
I made very clear that a good Atkins meal was a skinless chicken breast with a green vegetable side, not covered in bacon and cheese.
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The reason for different kinds of calories is that carbs and sugars spike insulin levels.
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Why leave off the onions?
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Onions are high sugar.
Anything you can order "caramelized" (like, say, onions) is bad.
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Onions are high sugar.
Anything you can order "caramelized" (like, say, onions) is bad.
So my caramel-coated caramels are safe.
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Done right, the weight loss on Atkins is two-fold. You do burn fat from ketosis, but the primary means of weight loss through Atkins is simply eating what you would have eaten before - just without all of the empty carbs
Not as I understand it.
Carbs:
1. Boost insulin which promotes fat formation.
2. Make us lazy.
3. Reduce satiety.
Such is the effect, it seems you can eat more calories via Atkins and still lose weight.
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...except there's no reason to eat more calories.
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If you come off a diet then it's not really the diet's fault, is it?
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Empty carbs.... you do know that Atkins died young?
Carbs are where the calories are at in the American diet - kill the soda, breads, cereals, cookies, doughnuts, and other sugars (carbs), and you remove most of the impulse calories from the table.
You can get fat on nuts, steak, cheese and bacon, just consume the same calories in them as you would have in soda and doughnuts.
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Well, if your previous meal was a super-size double quarter pounder meal, and you now, instead, order a super-size double-quarter-pounder meal "Atkins style" -- bunless, no ketchup, no onions with side salad instead of fries and a diet soda or water, you've cut HUNDREDS of calories out of your previous meal.
-550 calories on the fry-to-salad substitution alone.
If you cut 600 calories per meal out of your normal routine, you'll lose weight -- or at least stop gaining it as fast.
Nobody thinks you should eat Mc
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as a complement, pork is the same as people. Some 65% water, 20% protein, 15% lipids, and various micronutrients.
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HFCS is cheap, ridiculously tax subsidized cheap. When they closed down the sugar plantations in Hawaii and breakfast cereals hiked up 50% in price, everybody screamed. Now, you can have solid sweetener for $2 per gallon, so guess what's found in much higher quantities in your food now that it's less than half the cost of cane or beet sugar?
There is no God (Score:2)
See, if you'd stopped at the first sentence you'd have been fine. Once you wandered off into processed food land you became either a nut case or wholly redundant. See, there's nothing wrong with sugars of just about any type (though lactose is not digestable properly by a portion of the population, but that's a side discussion), nor salt, nor processed foods.
Once you eat a well balanced diet of proper portion sizes, you never need worry about the rest of the stuff, as it takes care of itself. A diet of Coke
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Sucrose, not Sucralose. Sucralose is a brand of artificial (phenylalanine-based) sweetener.
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Re:Stop focusing on the fads (Score:4, Insightful)
Pfft, and next thing we know, you'll be telling us to exercise too! My sedentary lifestyle has kept me out of the hospital while the active lifestyles kept by the rest of my immediate family have resulted in...
- Broken collarbone (ultimate frisbee collision)
- Broken nose (a different ultimate frisbee collision)
- Hairline fractures in both shins (playing too much ultimate frisbee)
- Blown out knees (too much jogging for one, carrying a couch for the other)
- Severed index finger tendon (landed wrong after tripping while jogging)
- Blown out achilles tendons (they said he'd never jog again, but he was back at it in 6 months)
And that's just off the top of my head in the last five years, none of which occurred at the same time, and none of which they've learned from, since they're all still engaged in those activities. Man, am I showing them!
*says the guy who would strongly advocate that others follow his family members' lifestyle choices rather than his own and is VERY aware of the fact that he's setting himself up for significant complications later in life if he doesn't succeed in following his own advice*
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Remember this, when smoking was getting banned in most of North America, the cigarette companies diversified and got into, guess what? Food.
High fructose corn syrup (New Coke, oops sorry- here's your Old Coke back, now with HFCS...) and all manner of addictive things have been scientifically woven into your grocery store aisles since then, by the corporations who have made a science of legal addiction for profit.
Re:Stop focusing on the fads (Score:4, Insightful)
This idiot developed and sold some of the world's best respiratory monitoring equipment. One of our repeat customers was a big tobacco company - they paid well, and even sponsored some customization for their research. They never published anything, but they know quite a bit about the science of smoking. The investors and management of the tobacco companies did, indeed, diversify into food in the 1980s, and they have been driving the "improvements" found on grocery store shelves since then, using a similar systematic, scientific approach to selling profitable food products. I believe the consumer's health is at a similar priority for them in food as it was in the tobacco industry.
Yes, people should stop eating garbage, exercise regularly, save for retirement, etc. However, judging from past performance, they need a little encouragement in the right direction, and the available food choices, and pricing structure of those food choices in the U.S. today do not seem to be the encouragement that most people need to make healthy choices. Next, we can go down a whole health-care profit machine conspiracy hole, if you like.
Nobody is forcing you to buy pre-processed, packaged foods, you are absolutely free to go to the grocery and buy fresh produce, meats, dairy, and do all the cooking yourself. Look at the shelf space in your local grocery store and tell me where they are making the bulk of their profits. It's not in the produce aisle.