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NRA Launches Pro-Lead Website

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  • by riverat1 (1048260) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @01:25PM (#44488221)

    The Romans found out about lead and its toxic effects. There's no point in using it where it isn't necessary.

    • by laejoh (648921) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @01:46PM (#44488531)
      All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, public health, and their findings about lead and its toxic effects, what have the Romans ever done for us?
    • by wisnoskij (1206448) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @01:51PM (#44488643) Homepage

      Yes, and you don'e want to eat it, or breath it in.
      But, that does not mean that there is anything necessarily wrong with a large piece of meat coming in contact with lead for a short while.

      Hell, the medical community puts mercury into injections, and expect you to inject it directly into your blood steam.

      • by Valdrax (32670) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @02:19PM (#44489121)

        Hell, the medical community puts mercury into injections, and expect you to inject it directly into your blood steam.

        There's no solid evidence of health risks from thiomersal. The ethylmercury it breaks down into is as different from methylmercury in its effects on the body as ethyl alcohol is from methyl alcohol. It doesn't bioaccumulate, leaving the body in about 14-18 days.

        But, that does not mean that there is anything necessarily wrong with a large piece of meat coming in contact with lead for a short while.

        Lead, on the other hand, bioaccumlates quite well. You don't want to eat much in the way of small game shot with lead. There is no safe level of lead exposure and most of it will get sacked away in your bones to be slowly released over years. (Children and pregnant women get much higher doses in the soft tissues due to the way their bones undergo remodeling.)

        Small game animals killed with shot tend to have many small fragments of lead in their tissues. [plosone.org] The UK's Food Standards Agency advises against eating meat killed with lead shot [food.gov.uk]. Eating less than half a pound of small game would increase your lead exposure by eightfold above average, and about half a pound of deer shot with led would double it. We're talking a teensy 8 oz steak here.

        With the introduction of softer, heavier alloys for non-toxic shot, there is no legitimate reason to be using lead shot other than bull-headed stubbornness or an utter disregard for anything other than your own pleasure. It's you and your family that you're poisoning after all.

        • by MBGMorden (803437) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @02:30PM (#44489265)

          and about half a pound of deer shot with led would double it. We're talking a teensy 8 oz steak here.

          Ok, deer are normally killed with a *bullet* - not shot. A single projectile passing into the vitals. At least half the time the bullet passes through the other side. When it doesn't the bullet is either lodged under the skin or is in the chest cavity. The meat in the general area is often discarded anyways due to ballistic shock (ie, it turns to a bloody mush).

          Bottom line, contact between the deer and the bullet is brief (often fractions of a second) and localized.

        • by T5 (308759)

          There's no solid evidence of health risks from thiomersal.

          Not in the manner in which you were speaking perhaps. However, I am highly allergic to thiomersal. I first ran into this nasty stuff when it was used as a preservative in contact lens solutions in the early 1980s. I still have one pupil that is slightly more dilated than the other as a result of a relatively brief exposure 30 years ago - a few stubborn days figuring that my new contacts would just take getting used to even while my eyes continued to swell, burn, and turn red as a beet.

          This stuff is still

      • by mattack2 (1165421)

        Hell, the medical community puts mercury into injections, and expect you to inject it directly into your blood steam.

        And you eat chlorine every time you eat table salt. The mercury in thimerosol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thimerosol [wikipedia.org]) is not the same as pure liquid mercury.

    • What the Romans found out about was lead acetate.

      They discovered that lining their wine storage containers made bad or old wine turn sweet, rather than sour. This is because the acetic acid of the vinegar reacted with the metallic lead of the lining, becoming and extremely sweet - and extremely soluble, bioavailable, and toxic - compound (nicknamed "sugar of lead"). This, far more than the metallic lead in the pipes, is currently believed to be the main source of lead-related poisoning in the Romans (espe

  • by h4rr4r (612664) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @01:26PM (#44488243)

    Barnes Bullets surely is not going to be helping the NRA on this one.

    I shoot those in all my rifles. They are really great and apparently I am being eco friendly.

  • non sequitur (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SuperKendall (25149) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @01:28PM (#44488259)

    The rise and fall of lead levels from gasoline and lead-based paint are strongly correlated to the rise and fall of crime rates in communities around the world.

    Yes, and??

    Gasoline is something you are inhaling some fumes from, and around pretty often.

    Lead on bullets, much less so - most people would at most go shooting one day a week, many much less often than that. And the bullets fired are fired into a range, so contamination is very limited compared to widespread use of gas and spillage at every station.

    The amusing thing is that the increase of bullets (i.e. people owning guns) has also contributed to drops in crime rates...

    • Re:non sequitur (Score:5, Informative)

      by the gnat (153162) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @01:35PM (#44488351)

      The amusing thing is that the increase of bullets (i.e. people owning guns) has also contributed to drops in crime rates...

      Actually, violent crime in the United States has dropped significantly since the 1980s and early 1990s [wikipedia.org], but so has gun ownership [nytimes.com].

      • Re:non sequitur (Score:4, Informative)

        by EvilSS (557649) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @01:53PM (#44488689)

        but so has gun ownership [nytimes.com].

        Has it? As a percentage of households, yes. However, you need to account for population growth over the same time period. If you do you'll see the number (not percentage) of households with firearms has stayed fairly steady over the decades.

        • Re:non sequitur (Score:4, Insightful)

          by starless (60879) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @02:27PM (#44489229)

          but so has gun ownership [nytimes.com].

          Has it? As a percentage of households, yes. However, you need to account for population growth over the same time period. If you do you'll see the number (not percentage) of households with firearms has stayed fairly steady over the decades.

          Without taking a position on the issue of guns vs. crime itself, comparing rates is exactly what should be done statistically.
          i.e. the "rate" (fraction) of gun ownership (number of guns per household) should be compared with the crime rate (e.g. murders per 10,000 people per year.)

          However, it may be debatable whether the appropriate number for guns is guns/household or percentage of people who own guns.
          (The mean and median number of people per household is probably changing.)

  • by Hartree (191324) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @01:33PM (#44488329)

    Lead when finely divided or in a form easily absorbed (like paint chips that get eaten) or in a place that can get heavily leached is a real problem.

    Blocks of lead, like the wheel weights used to balance car tires aren't a big problem.

    • Except that the NRA isn't defending the lead wheel weights, and they're already outlawed in CA.

    • This right here is the most important point I have seen raised. It is the shooters that need to be concerned, especially when firing at an indoor range. Some small amount of lead is vaporized with every shot; you can easily smell the difference between jacketed and bare lead rounds. My city recently banned the use of unjacketed and semi-jacketed rounds at indoor ranges for this reason; nobody seems to be complaining.
  • by fredrated (639554) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @01:44PM (#44488493) Journal

    it would be considered a sociopath.

  • by sl4shd0rk (755837) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @02:39PM (#44489391)

    I can remember a time, back in the late 70s, when the NRA took out full-page ads in Field & Stream and Outdoor Life. I don't remember the exact wording, but they seemed like a reasonable organization and advocate for responsible gun ownership. These days, it seems like the NRA is just a mouthpiece for off-kilter political wack-jobs. I can scarcely glass over any of their "publications" without hearing Ted Nugent reading it in my mind.

  • It appears we took down the NRA site that his summary linked to. Apparently the slashdot conservatives wanted to get the talking points from it before the slashdot liberal pointed out that lead is bad?

    (yes, I know I'll be down-modded for this. let me have it)
  • by Tetravus (79831) on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @04:00PM (#44490373) Homepage

    "The National Rifle Association has launched a website defending the use of lead ammunition against scientists and environmental organizations..."

    Okay then, at least they didn't defend the use of water boarding on scientists. Oh wait, I totally parsed that wrong due to my inherent bias against anything coming from the NRA. So, I checked the link and saw that it goes to a site "huntfortruth.org" (so you can kill it). Dang! There goes that inbuilt sarcasm again.

    Here's a report, republished from Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners Journal, Volume 31 Number 4, Fall 1999 written with assistance from a researcher a the Oak Ridge National Laboratory that details what a "green" bullet is: http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/GreenBullets/GreenBullets.htm [firearmsid.com]

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