Why Worms In the Toilet Might Be a Good Idea 124
derekmead writes "Billions worldwide still don't have access to proper sanitation, and those that do still require a ton of water and electricity to keep waste flowing. A French company is offering one solution: Use turd-eating worms to compost waste right at the source. Ecosphere Technologies has developed an outhouse that, rather than relying on chemicals like a port-a-john, relies on about a pound of red wiggler worms. A new installation in Quebec uses imported worms, placed inside of a mixture of dung and straw underneath to toilet, to devour feces delivered to them by a conveyor belt system. (When someone uses the toilet, pee filters through sand to wash away, while a pedal allows the user to transport their poo to the worm space.) The whole system uses no water or electricity, and a series of passive vents allegedly keeps the toilet smelling great. The company claims it can be used 10,000 times without servicing, which is far better than what a port-a-potty can boast, although with a current price tag of $40k for the worm system, port-a-potties are still a lot cheaper."
first worm! (Score:4, Funny)
first worm!
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Early bird you are.
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Bale of hay: $3.00
Bag of potting soil: $2.00
Pound of earthworms: $10.00
Stupid hippie crapping in a wormy shitbox:
PRICELESS!
I'd make a joke... (Score:2)
But the last thing the world needs is more toilet humor.
It's a fascinating science idea, but there's no way I can see it marketed to take off. Starting with the fact that people have reasonable levels of phobias of living things where they poo; see prevalent folk tales of squirrels and snakes in toilets, etc.
It's just simply more economical to dig a hole in the ground, and provide hand sanitizer.
Re:I'd make a joke... (Score:4, Interesting)
more toilet humor ... you mean potty talk? /sorry
"It's just simply more economical to dig a hole in the ground"
until the next guy digs one up.. seriously. had the same problem in my yard with the dog. burying it worked for a while, but eventually ran out of new places to dig. buried shit stays around for a while. eventually had to get one of these: http://www.energystead.com/doogies-dooley-pet-waste-composter-2000/ [energystead.com]
"people have reasonable levels of phobias'
it's not like they have signs advertising worms. looks like any other campsite throne.
http://phys.org/news/2012-10-turd-eating-worms-air-canadian-toilets.html [phys.org]
Ahead of the curve (Score:2)
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We have to get you dewormed -again-?
Then who eats all the worm poo? (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesn't just vanish, you know?
Re:Then who eats all the worm poo? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Then who eats all the worm poo? (Score:4, Interesting)
Earthworm castings (earthworm shit) are worth about 1.50 a dry pound retail.
I'd also just point out that earthworms eat the shit in outhouse pits when the uses don't dump a ton of lime into it. All the outhouses need is solar powered positive pit ventilation.
Hell most of Africa just needs an adult in the village to enforce outhouse digging. Avoid having the outhouse being the commons.
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Re:Then who eats all the worm poo? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's bad enough when the waste pump on a boat toilet needs fixing - at least that thing's mostly a small sealed unit with just a couple of hoses clamped on. That's one conveyor belt that you'd want to make sure was damned reliable and never ever needed repairs rr maintenance on - it's going to be one hell of a nasty job if it gets so crusted up it can't move or the bearings go or something like that.
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...fancy poo-conveyor.
iPoo - crap differently
Legal: iPoo employs patented "pinch" gesture innovations.
Seems gratuitiously complicated to me (Score:4, Insightful)
This problem has been solved before - In Ye Olden Dayes a common technique was to have your outhouse in the center of a copse of coppiced trees (willow being one of the preferred species due to it's particularly "hungry" roots), which would then convert your waste into firewood while cleaning out the pit for you. Unfortunately then as now mixing liquid and solid wastes produces a fairly toxic mass that's harmful to most life. So what was the solution? Some contrived conveyor system? No - they just put a catchment basin just beneath the front of the seat to catch liquids and redirect them under the trees at the surface. Sure, women had to pay a bit more attention to their aim, but the system was nice and simple with no moving parts to go wrong, and the trees were perfectly capable of dealing with both kinds of waste as long as it wasn't mixed together.
A toilet with pedals? (Score:4, Funny)
Do the kids get training wheels?
Mutant giant worm (Score:1)
...and it's just a matter of time before mutant giant worms will devour unsuspecting toilet visitors!
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I suspect anyone who's seen Dreamcatcher will be leery of using a worm-based toilet
Wormholes DO Exist! (Score:4, Funny)
Other sanitation applications? (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps this is too expensive to replace the portable restrooms in developing countries, but perhaps this could be used in larger-scale applications to help deal with the solid waste in waste treatment facilities? Instead of using harsher chemicals, we could augment it with more biological processes such as this to increase the efficiency of the treatment. Just a thought anyway.
Bubba & Hank -- Worms & Fishing (Score:2)
Hank: I'm goin' fishin'.
Bubba: Got worms?
Hank: Yeah, but I'm goin' anyway.
"...and the worms, ate, in, to, his brain."
gosh?? (Score:1)
were is the news? the news is that a small portion of the world flushes their waste away with drinking quality water and that there are billions of others that don't. There are many systems that don't require a 'flushing toilet', the post is about just one, so it's more like an advert than a story, oh, crap.
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Before you come down from your high horse, maybe you could use the view to find a country with potable water that does not use it to flush their toilets? Water - even drinkable water - is very cheap in a lot of places.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_Japan [wikipedia.org]
3.2 Sanitation
In 2002 about 75 million people were connected to sewers and 35 million people had their waste water treated through small-scale waste water treatment devices called jÅkasÅs. They are common in areas not connected to sewers, but also exist in areas connected to sewers. There is even a specific jÅkasÅ law that regulates their construction, installation, inspection and desludging. JÅkasÅs use different
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It seems that a Jokaso is a type of septic system with some additional technology [fujiclean.co.jp]. While I'm sure that water from it can be reused, I'm not finding any indication that this is the typical usage. I'm also not finding any common usage of the sludge being used as a fertilizer (at least not by the homeowner). It looks like there are services that haul the sludge away; if you look at these pictures [fujiclean.co.jp], you'd clearly have to be very brave to retrieve it yourself!
In other words, it is used the same way that we evil,
Carnivorous Worms... (Score:2)
Just a matter of time before the worms feed on enough blood-infested stool from anal fissures and hemorrhoids to turn carnivorous. Queue real-life Ghoulies II re-enactment..
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Zombie worms!
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Foreign critters (Score:5, Insightful)
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These worms have been trained in the tur-de-france. They are much better at re-cycling.
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Yes, but he's [wikipedia.org] already got a job...
Re:Foreign critters (Score:5, Interesting)
And before you ask, no they don't stink. The stinky smell comes from anerobic bacteria breaking down fecal matter. When you immerse feces in water, it cuts off the oxygen supply which kills the aerobic bacteria, and the stinky anerobic bacteria flourish. Because a composting toilet channels liquids away from the solids reservoir (the 5 gallon bucket works better for men), the aerobic bacteria dominate and break down the feces without causing the stink. Think about how much biomass there is outdoors in wild animals. If all their feces stank that badly as a sewage treatment plant, we'd never want to go outside.
They're starting to become popular aboard boats, where dumping laws require toilets flush into holding tanks which can to be pumped out back at the harbor. These holding tanks and their plumbing tend to leak and stink up the boat after some years.
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Yes exactly, compost toilets have been a fairly common choice amongst boaters for a while now and not much more expensive than the usual boaty alternatives plus they require less holes in the hull which is always a bonus on a boat. Of course you still need somewhere to dump the compost as marinas are not generally very green and tend to frown upon compost heaps springing up around the pontoons.
http://www.natureshead.net/information.html [natureshead.net]
Depends on how they got there (Score:3)
Worms that are there for the purpose of sanitation? Good idea.
Worms that are there because of something you ate? See a doctor...
Eat the worm! (Score:2)
In Soviet Russia (Score:1)
... worm poop on YOU!
Composting toilet (Score:4, Informative)
There are actually several models of these out already. Some of the folks up here have them instead of an outhouse. http://www.envirolet.com/ [envirolet.com] The funny part is that you have to turn a handle on the toilet to mix the, uh, contents around after you go. I think you can put other wastes in them (like kitchen scraps) and they will be composted as well...
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More ideas here http://www.openideo.com/open/how-can-we-improve-sanitation-and-better-manage-human-waste-in-low-income-urban-communities/concepting/ecological-toilets-compost-or-biogas-networked-entrepreneurs-everybody-wins [openideo.com]
That's slashdot for you! (Score:5, Funny)
Poop and pee? (Score:3)
Really? Poop and pee?
Urine and feces. There, I said it. Or excrement if you like. Take your pick, but I don't see why we can't just try to use adult words.
Imagine a summary talking about "nuts cancer".
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Possible Delicacy (Score:2)
The Romans loved something called "lickerfish", probably a catfish, that hung out at the Rome sewer outflows into the Tiber river. In other words, these fish got fat eating human shit, and the Romans considered them a delicacy.
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In other words, these fish got fat eating human shit, and the Romans considered them a delicacy.
Do you know what manure is? Ever eat any vegetables?
Re:Possible Delicacy (Score:4, Insightful)
The Romans also put fermented fish guts (guram IIRC) on just about everything. Like American rednecks and Ketchup or Japanese and Soy sauce. Roman's diets were weird.
Also many third world countries are raising Talapia in their sewer treatment systems. Lack of control on imported Talapia is a good reason to avoid this fish (also it's 'sustainable', screw that, get me some swordfish steaks, Ahi Tuna and an Abalone. And some good prime beef, none of that grass fed crap.)
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You realize that the grass fed beef is actually tastier, right?
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And some good prime beef, none of that grass fed crap.
You've got to be kidding me, right? Grass fed beef produces a far tastier steak.
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Both of you are simply wrong. All beef is grass/hay fed. Good beef is fattened up in it's last two months at the feed lot.
If you prefer tough, gamey beef, it just leaves more of the good stuff for those of us who understand.
Next your going to tell me that beef should be years old when slaughtered. We call that 'cow'. It's awful.
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Eating something doesn't mean their made of it... or are you a grease ridden cheeseburger?
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...or are you a grease ridden cheeseburger?
I assume most Slashdotters are. In our cubes and basements. In stained T-shirts emblazoned with some comic book logo. With three computers, one to continuously serve porn up, a dedicated WoW machine, and something for trolling Slashdot.
Don't we already have good composting toilets? (Score:4, Interesting)
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and the output is nearly indistinguishable from normal soil
Unfortunately, if used as fertilizer, there's the ever-present risk of infection caused by contamination from insufficiently composted human feces (think E. coli).
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And then there's Milorganite.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milorganite [wikipedia.org]
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You don't use it as fertilizer over plants that have already sprouted; you plow it into the earth.
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What do you do for toilet paper?
WKRP (Score:1)
They really exist! (Score:2)
Comosting toilets (Score:2)
The alternative to these worms isn't port-a-pots, it's composting toilets, which you might find in remote cabins. They're expensive, but certainly not 40k.
And people have worked-out much cheaper DIY options which do the same thing. You just need a seat, a bucket, a vent (preferably with a small electric exhaust fan) and a handful of microbes to throw in to get started. All of the above are very inexpensive in the 1st world. In the 3rd world, local potters could make all of it, except the microbes, and t
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This is why hippies fucking smell so atrocious.
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Actually, if you have sufficient ventilation to dry the sewage quickly, there's almost no smell.
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:p (Score:2)
Why Worms In the Toilet Might Be a Good Idea
Better out than in, eh?
Bugs (Score:1)
Fuck just use laser beams, dammit!
We've had a worm toilet for a couple of years (Score:1)
Actually, a worm septic tank. It seems similar in usage to a normal septic tank, but with worms in it. It does require a pump in order to pump the treated water out, into our lawn (which we never need to water). Apparently the treated water is safe enough to drink but we haven't tried. All our grey and black water feeds into it, and we have a normal toilet. Cost about $12,000 installed. Just like other septic tanks, we have it checked twice a year, but maintenance is essentially nil apart from that. N
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Yeah, that could be a problem. Whenever I tell my neighbours I'm going on vacation, they say that they couldn't give a shit.
But seriously: $12K? Couldn't I just flush a few buckets of live bait down the toilet? And, I don't know about yours, but most septic systems get checked every 2-3 years, not twice a year.
Stopped Reading. (Score:1)
Sorry, I stopped reading the submission at the word "turd-eating".
If you're not going to take yourself (or your publication) seriously, neither am I. Talk like a grown up; not a four year old.
Pshaw, back in the day... (Score:2)
Invasive species (Score:5, Interesting)
Most people don't realize it, but the humble, ubiquitous earthworm is an invasive species in North America. Though you might think of it as useful and beneficial to the soil, in the forests of north America, the earthworm is causing a lot of damage. So I get a bit concerned when they start talking about throwing in "imported worms."
it can be used 10,000 times without servicing (Score:2)
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Sir, I will!
Yes. For the very low fee of $50 per dump I will feed those worms for you. If you purchase 3 dumps you get a house watching bundle with it free.
Prepay with Bitcoin now while this offer is still valid.
If you want try this yourself you can get the bacteria starter culture from boating supplies. It's a bit pricey at the moment. If you then want to use cleaning fluids there are special ones available from chandlers too.
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Earthworms are invasive species (Score:1)
Did you know that Minnesota has 15 non-native species of earthworms in its forest?
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/invasives/terrestrialanimals/earthworms/index.html [state.mn.us]
"All of the terrestrial earthworms in Minnesota are non-native...at least seven species are invading our hardwood forests and causing the loss of tree seedlings, wildflowers, and ferns."
I've seen before/after photos of forests where earthworms moved in and the undergrowth just disappeared. I don't think that increasing the use of non-native worms is a
TFS really has... (Score:2)
Seriously Expensive Shit (Score:2)
$40K for a bucket? Wow. Great marketing!
The worms that go in are long and thin, (Score:1)
The worms that come out are fat and stout.
Not the best place to ask I imagine but... Does anyone know which Pouges song these lyrics were from? (it might have been more of an intro to the song rather than actual lyrics as they have never come up on a search)
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It's just called "Worms." Creepy song -- one I've liked for a long time.
http://www.lyricstime.com/the-pogues-worms-lyrics.html [lyricstime.com]
"to compost waste right at the source."` (Score:3)
Errr, the toilet isn't the "source".
Although that would be an innovation worth posting on Slashdot: parasitic intestinal worms engineered to turn faeces into compost in vivo.
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Or nanobot worms engineered to utilize 100% of food ingested.
how would that work though?? you'd get bigger and bigger every day??
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Or enable us to digest grass. Solving 3rd world hunger, briefly. For the west, perhaps the opposite, turning excess fats, sugars and highly processed carbs into indigestible starches. Oh, of course, parasitic intestinal worms that turn excess fats, sugars and highly processed carbs into a nutritious paste suitable for export as food aide. Solves western obesity and 3rd world starvation (without us having to actually do anything).
[Natural parasites and worms already have vastly more capabilities than any lik
Poo? (Score:1)
We're all grownups, many of us are nerds, technically literate and so are completely used to the idea of using reasonably long words for the precision they offer.
Can we please ban "pee" and "poo"? Always and forever.
True source (Score:2)
So why stop at the toilet? Push those worms up our butts and be done with it.
No wonder... (Score:2)
No toilets, but they are actively using Facebook?
Stupid language (Score:2)
Was the submission written by a 6 year-old?
Why is it that in a nerdy site like Slashdot, expressly dedicated to smart people, an article is written with childish words like "pee," "turd," and "poo"?
I'm in no way offended by the language, but by the lazy, crude, and idiotic way of using it. There are so many more intelligent ways to express oneself than using school-yard slang.
-dZ.
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But that's the point, when people talk about improving health prospects by implementing new ways of handling waste, they don't go around saying "poo" or "pee."
It is therefore, not the vernacular.
Very Flintstones (Score:2)
.
Any idea how to apply this to a pit/vault toilet? (Score:1)
I camp at a place that has pit/vault toilets, there's a several feet deep concrete circle that someone empties out occasionally (one of the worst jobs in the world if you ask me, the guy wears a full body plastic suit and a respirator).
I was thinking "venting" at the bottom (to the outside) with a screen of some sort, then a couple of feet of sand. This is the urine path.
Then a fine mesh layer on top of the sand and some arranged organic material with microbes to get things going.
How much use is necessary
Done already? (Score:2)
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It's a DARPA project.
Re:$40K for 10,000 uses? (Score:4, Interesting)
4$ per flush. That's pretty steep!
Have you ever priced out the cost of your civilized flush?
If you start with the cost of pipes in the ground and end with water treatment plants, it adds up fairly quickly,
though the infrastructure can be amortized across tens or hundreds of thousands of users and tens of years.
Taxes are what we use to buy civilization.
Re:$40K for 10,000 uses? (Score:5, Interesting)
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In a condo in the middle of a city? Don't think so, Bubba.
Re:$40K for 10,000 uses? (Score:4)
I'm not trying to be anti-government here, but...
At least around here, the developer ends up paying for all of the new infrastructure and then the sewer authority or township sanitation department charges you per hookup or based on your water usage. In other words, it's a usage fee that maintains the infrastructure, not a tax.
On the other hand, it is compulsory, so maybe I'm being pedantic.
In any event, the sewers should last - at the least - 40 years. So that is amortized over a loooooong time. There is no way I pay anything approaching $4 per flush.
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On the other hand, it is compulsory, so maybe I'm being pedantic.
Only somewhat pedantic.
The difference is worth being mentioned, but the outcome is exactly the same.
In any event, the sewers should last - at the least - 40 years. So that is amortized over a loooooong time. There is no way I pay anything approaching $4 per flush.
It's not really possible to calculate the long term cost of this system without more information.
If we knew how much the servicing cost and the expected lifespan & replacement cost of components,
we could compare it to the cost of a normal 20~40 year municipal waste bond.
There's also an issue of scale.
Infrastructure is one of those things that, if scaled correctly, can usually be brought down to a reasonab
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If we knew how much the servicing cost and the expected lifespan & replacement cost of components,
we could compare it to the cost of a normal 20~40 year municipal waste bond.
I can help you out a little there... I pay for a service plan which covers the run from the inside plumbing to the street, and it is under $100/year. Assuming the actuaries did their work, the average servicing cost can be assumed to be under $100.
Toilets out in the middle of nowhere do not fit that criteria. So in a sense, it's not an equal comparison.
That's true. But if you have room for a leech field, you can get away with a septic system and don't need a municipal sewer. I think a single acre is more than enough for septic systems. A very nice septic system should cost far, far less than $40,000.
My main goal was to point out that your water & sewer bill at the end of the month doesn't begin to reflect all the money that goes into the average person's 7 flushes per day.
That's a goo
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Taxes are what we use to buy civilization.
It doesn't take a lot of taxes to make a sanitation system that works. It does take a lot of taxes to get my cronies a piece of the action.
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Obviously, it's number 2.
Re:$40K for 10,000 uses? (Score:5, Informative)