Is There a Subsurface Water Ocean On Titan? 57
Stirling Newberry writes "Luciano Iess and team have hypothesized that Titan joins Earth, Europa, and Ganymede as ocean worlds. They measured the size of the tidal bulges and found that the moon is likely not solid (abstract). Team member Jonathan Lunine points out that Titan's methane atmosphere is not stable, so it needs some source, perhaps from outgassing. On Earth, water means life, and in the future, ice covered ocean worlds are targets for human colonization. As the late Arthur C. Clarke observed, water is the most precious substance in the universe to humans."
Betteridge's Law of Headlines (Score:1)
I hope this is an exception.
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Re:Betteridge's Law of Headlines (Score:5, Informative)
The idea of a subsurface ocean on Titan is nothing new and surfaces in the geophysics/geoscience literature every so often. For example, when Voyager I passed by the moon, it detected an abundance of only 3% (mole fraction) of CH4, which is sufficiently low to preclude the stable coexistence of liquid CH4 on the surface. Lunine, et al. ("Ethane ocean on Titan", Science, 222, 1229-1230, 1983) suggested that Titan's atmospheric CH4 may have broken down by a catalyzed photochemical reaction to C2H6, with the C2H6 stemming from a subsurface ocean; the resulting deep ocean would consist of a 3:1 mixture of C2H6 and CH4. (To explain, the dissociation steps of C2H6 involve loss of hydrogen by escape, with the postulated set reactions: 2CH4 -> C2H6 + H2 and 2CH4 -> C2H6 + 2H. The intermediate molecule C2H2 plays the role of catalysis and shielding of C2H6 from photolysis. Furthermore, CH4 would break down at a rate of 1.5*10^10cm^-2/s and H/H2 would leave the atmosphere at 5.5*10^9 and 7*10^9cm^-2/s, which is consistent with Hanel, et al.'s analysis ("Infrared observations of the Saturnian system from Voyager I", Science, 212, 192-200, 1981). As such, it is reasonable to conclude that the result is a production of an CH4-rich ocean of 1km depth and a 100-200km thick layer of solid C2H2 on Titan's ocean floor).
For additional analyses, see: F. M. Flasar, "Oceans on Titan?", Science, 221, 55-57, 1983; O. B. Toon, et al., "Methane rain on Titan", Icarus, 75, 255-284, 1988; N. Dubouloz, et al., "Titan's hypothesized ocean properties: The influence of surface temperature and atmospheric composition uncertanties", Icarus, 82, 81-96, 1989; W. R. Thompson, et al., "Vapor-liquid equilibrium thermodynamics of N2 + CH4: Model and Titan applications", Icarus, 97, 187-199, 1992.
FYI:Betteridge's Law of Headlines (Score:3, Informative)
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"Why do vacuum clear suck ? "
Has a question mark, but can't really be answered with yes or no.
I see it more like : any headline, which poses a question which can be answered with yes or no , is not really worth the read.
Which makes sense : If it can't even answer a question with yes or no, what can it answer ?
Reading the above headline tells you right away, they don't know if there is surface water on titan. Otherwise it would have been an assertive statement "Surface water on Titan !"
They should change the
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I thought it , posted it in almost the same way, and then realized someone else had posted it earlier :-)
Guess I should read comments before replying.
Cassini (Score:5, Insightful)
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The cool thing is that Titan is a good target for a flying balloon probe. It has a thick atmosphere made of non-corrosive substances, and apparently rather little wind near the surface. The mobility of a probe like that would put even the MSL to shame.
I'll go look (Score:1)
BBIAB
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Search != research (Score:1)
Although some may call it such (and in some contexts it might qualify), don't confuse searching the web with "research". At least not in the scientific sense.
Search = discover things that others discovered before.
Research = discover things that no-one else discovered before.
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Undergraduates no longer need research, now that the net has provided search that even undergrads can use.
Although some may call it such (and in some contexts it might qualify), don't confuse searching the web with "research". At least not in the scientific sense.
I think you left your irony detector at home.
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Re:Who cares (Score:5, Interesting)
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... and on the seventh day, He rested. On the eighth day He got up early - He had Mars & all the bloody asteroids to do.
Seriously, it would rather put dampers on the belief that we're somehow His special favorites, wouldn't it?
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Seriously, it would rather put dampers on the belief that we're somehow His special favorites, wouldn't it?
But we already know we aren't particular favorites Jesus/Aslan likes Narnia too!
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Think in fishing expedition. You can get nothing of it, or get something that could make a big difference, both for what you can make/find/bring from there, or for something that could understand us or our planet better, or even for what we will learn just trying to get there. The side effects of just going into orbit definately did a difference for a good percent of population of the world, this could pay that much too.
If you worry only for today you could not have a future. What is the alternative? using
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Which is odd, because the one thing Titan has plenty of is hydrocarbons, so you would think it would be of very great interest in the long-term as a potential source.
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Re:Who cares (Score:5, Insightful)
And we could get there for a lot less than it took to invade and occupy Iraq.
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Yes.... but being able to export our democracy to Iraq? Priceless.
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Right now it sure would, but write back in 75 or a 100 years, when we've exhausted most of our oil reserves and polluted most of the groundwater with fracking, and the price of oil reaches obscene heights, then it might make a lot more sense.
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Barring some major changes in rocket technology, not likely. We're not going to run out of oil (or, more accurately, various hydrocarbon sources of uneven quality, quantity and cost to produce) - we're just running out of the cheap stuff.
I can't imagine even if it gets pretty scarce, it would be cheaper to drag stuff out of the middle of solar system and somehow get it back to the surface than it would be to dribble out small volumes of oil and gas from existing infrastructure.
Besides, warp drives don't wo
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We already have technology to extract oil from plants, and with little refinement, turn it in to bio diesel. There's already a process to turn solid plant matter in to crude oil - but it's only price competitive at $120/gallon. Lots and lots of alternative energy options are available - it's just that they aren't as cheap or cheaper than oil until oil hits the $120-200/barrel range. The "argument" against wind energy relies on the same principle.
Also, the US has something like 300 years worth of coa
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What are you going to use to oxidize it?
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One would think transporting oil a billion miles would cut into your profit margin.
Bah, transporting it back to Earth would be a waste of time -- instead I'll use it to power my space lab in space.
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Not like it will make a difference in 99.9% of the population of the world in the first place. Just another bloated government agency, wanting more money for more research that won't do anyone any good.
Sort of like Christopher Columbus' expedition, then.
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Sort of like Christopher Columbus' expedition, then.
The thing that made Columbus' expedition profitable was the discovery of vast amounts of human-compatible, habitable land that was (more or less) available for colonization, and also natural resources that were worth more what it cost to transport them back to Europe. It seems unlikely that either of those things will be found on Titan (which isn't to say people shouldn't try anyway).
Bah, who needs water (Score:4, Funny)
We need spice!! Call me when we find a desert planet populated by giant worms.
But the spice must flow. (Score:3)
Is there a subsurface water ocean on Arrakis?
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The water was bound by the worms, IIRC. And the Fremen were using windtraps to capture what little free moisture there was in the air (thereby making it even dryer, I suppose)
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Yes, it's part of the worm lifecycle. Sandtrouts encircle water and hold it underground. That's why Arrakis is a desert.
Quoth the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandtrout#Sandworm_life_cycle [wikipedia.org]
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Ice-covered ocean world=target4human colonization? (Score:2)
Where to live? (Score:1)
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I bet 94K in an atmosphere is a lot colder than 3K in empty space.
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I bet 94K in an atmosphere is a lot colder than 3K in empty space.
Reminds me of the joke: There were two monkeys in a bathtub, and one says "OO-oo-EE-ee-AH-ah!" and the other says, "Well add some cold water, then"
But (Score:2)
Europa is a lot closer
(and we know it does have an ice covered ocean
and lower gravity too - easier to get the water off the moon and into space.
Once the technology and social structure (Score:2)
In the Saturn system, there is another candidate for a sub surface ocean: Enceladus, which has been
Betteridge's Law of Headlines (Score:2)
No.