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Math Education Science

How Much Math Do We Really Need? 1153

Pickens writes "G.V. Ramanathan, a professor emeritus of mathematics, statistics and computer science at the University of Illinois at Chicago, writes in the Washington Post that although a lot of effort and money has been spent to make mathematics seem essential, unlike literature, history, politics and music, math has little relevance to everybody's daily life. 'All the mathematics one needs in real life can be learned in early years without much fuss,' writes Ramanathan. 'Most adults have no contact with math at work, nor do they curl up with an algebra book for relaxation.' Ramanathan says that the marketing of math has become similar to the marketing of creams to whiten teeth, gels to grow hair and regimens to build a beautiful body, but even with generous government grants over the past 25 years, countless courses, conferences, and books written on how to teach teachers to teach, where is the evidence that these efforts have helped students? A 2008 review by the Education Department found that the nation is at 'greater risk now' than it was in 1983, and the National Assessment of Educational Progress math scores for 17-year-olds have remained stagnant since the 1980s (PDF). Meanwhile those who do love math and science have been doing very well and our graduate schools are the best in the world. 'As for the rest, there is no obligation to love math any more than grammar, composition, curfew or washing up after dinner. Why create a need to make it palatable to all and spend taxpayers' money on pointless endeavors without demonstrable results or accountability?'"
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How Much Math Do We Really Need?

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  • Re:Not much (Score:3, Informative)

    by IICV ( 652597 ) on Sunday October 31, 2010 @02:21PM (#34080892)

    The rule for that is really simple: if someone owes you 12.75, and they pay you 20.75, then just pretend they owed you 12 and paid you 20. As long as the value of the coins is exactly the same, they just cancel out and all you have to do is deal with the bills.

  • Re:In Soviet Russia (Score:3, Informative)

    by 32771 ( 906153 ) on Sunday October 31, 2010 @02:52PM (#34081256) Journal

    That reminds me!

    The article looks at math from an anti-capitalist angle:

    "Unfortunately, the marketing of math has become similar to the marketing of creams to whiten teeth, gels to grow hair and regimens to build a beautiful body.

    There are three steps to this kind of aggressive marketing. The first is to convince people that white teeth, a full head of hair and a sculpted physique are essential to a good life. The second is to embarrass those who do not possess them. The third is to make people think that, since a good life is their right, they must buy these products."

    Now go ahead guys and gals, have fun with this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Student_Olympiads [wikipedia.org]

    http://www.kidsmathbooks.com/2010/10/2nd-all-soviet-union-mathematical.html [kidsmathbooks.com]

    I mean, why is he targeting the left wingers with his anti intellectual propaganda?

  • Re:Language (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 31, 2010 @03:06PM (#34081400)

    "... empirical evidence seems to indicate that we cannot conceive of ideas that we do not have language to express"

    Many linguists (including Noam Chomsky) do not agree with your assertion; see

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_hypothesis#The_universalist_period

  • by darkstar949 ( 697933 ) on Sunday October 31, 2010 @03:16PM (#34081512)
    Eh, but you also have to remember that getting into high schools in China is not guaranteed and students have to test for placement so the population of high school students is going to be self limiting. If only your most promising students are in high school then it is going to be easier for you to show strong scores at a global level. The same argument cant be made for Japan where high school is not compulsorily and students have to test to get into the high school of their choice.
  • by HungryHobo ( 1314109 ) on Sunday October 31, 2010 @03:19PM (#34081536)

    The same without forcing kids to waste huge numbers of hours.
    Let them use those hours learning something else(I know, I know, it's heresy to suggest that other subjects might be more useful than math for some people.) rather than pissing their time away on something they don't need.

  • by Samantha Wright ( 1324923 ) on Sunday October 31, 2010 @03:28PM (#34081608) Homepage Journal

    No: you're just reading the wrong journals.

    Said Schroedinger," isn't this fun
    Shot a cat in a box with a gun
    I'll be sure it survives
    'Cause the cat has nine lives
    And I'll only be using just one."

    Schroedinger should not have done that
    It was cruel "playing God" with a cat
    Which, by the way, mister
    Belonged to your sister
    The next time please make it a rat.

    Said Schroedinger poison is nifty
    To dispose of this cat, God is shifty
    We can't tell if it died
    Till we all peer inside
    And the odds are at just that, 50/50.

    The cat in the box still has growth
    Or it's dead, and infested with sloth
    One should not get unnerved
    Till the cat is observed
    It's a superposition of both.

    So that is the way that you tell it
    Leave a cat in a box with a pellet
    Should the trigger let go
    The poison will flow
    And you'll know the cat's dead when you smell it.

    Said Schroedinger, "let Physics advance
    Though it might be kitty's last dance
    When we open the box
    Be prepared for some shocks
    But there's only a 50% chance."

    Said Schroedinger, "let's take a chance
    Though it might be kitty's last dance."
    "The poor cat," he then joked
    "is alive, or it's croaked"
    But you can't know these things in advance.

    (more) [xs4all.nl]

  • Re:A little more (Score:3, Informative)

    by gozar ( 39392 ) on Sunday October 31, 2010 @06:14PM (#34083130) Homepage

    "The whole principle is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." (On censorship)

    Apparently he liked Mark Twain also:

    Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. - Mark Twain.

  • by jdb2 ( 800046 ) * on Sunday October 31, 2010 @07:06PM (#34083510) Journal
    Look up GPS [wikipedia.org] on Wikipedia ( specifically this [wikipedia.org] ) before spouting ignorant bullshit. Besides positioning, GR also has applications in celestial and orbital mechanics [wikipedia.org] and hence spacecraft maneuvering. In fact, just look up GR [wikipedia.org], the subject of your diatribe, on Wikipedia, before making a fool of yourself.

    jdb2
  • by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) * on Sunday October 31, 2010 @08:58PM (#34084314)

    However, that comment suggests that it may be you who is confused about the origin of the term 'Separation of Church and State,' as it appears in no law or other official document related to the US Constitution or the founding of the United States of America.

    Your comment suggests your reading comprehension skills are ... suboptimal. I said the CONCEPT of Separation of Church and State. The concept flows from the part of the First Amendment which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" and is the result of a Supreme Court decision from a long time ago. You just made the exact same mistake that TEA Party super-star/wacko Christine O'Donnell made during a debate recently. Congratulations on feeling superior through your ignorance. You now qualify as a TEA Party candidate! It really IS just that easy.

  • by rogerz ( 78608 ) <roger&3playmedia,com> on Monday November 01, 2010 @12:57PM (#34091164)

    Yeah, until you start voting for TEA party candidates because you've never heard of the Know Nothings.

    Another self-referential.

    You do know that the name of that movement stemmed from its secretive nature, right (when asked about their participation, members were supposed to reply that they "know nothing")?

    So, yes, I support the "tea party" philosophy not because I agree that we should have a limited government and increased individual freedom, but because I didn't know that they were so secretive.

  • by Magius_AR ( 198796 ) on Monday November 01, 2010 @05:52PM (#34095262)

    Yeah, until you start voting for TEA party candidates because you've never heard of the Know Nothings.

    First of all, since when has the "Tea Party" ever fully-capitalized the word "Tea"? It's not like it's an acronym or something. And you're the one harping about reading comprehension?

    Secondly, what do the "Know Nothings" (an anti-immigration platform) in any way have to do with the Tea Party (a largely libertarian platform)? The Tea Party isn't a secretive platform either. Your vague correlation between the two leaves much to be desired, even by one familiar with historical events.

    When you claim to be all about enforcing the Constitution

    Well, Obama claimed to be a constitutional scholar, and yet most of his political agenda is unconstitutional. Government mandated medical insurance for instance -- show me where the government is legally allowed to mandate that in the Constitution. And please don't demonstrate the common general comprehension failure of what "General Welfare" means (especially given the fact you've already painted yourself as a history buff).

    I doubt the TEA Party, whose candidates seem to evince a spectacular lack of understanding of the U.S. Constition, either wouldn't exist, or their preferred candidates would be very, very different. When you claim to be all about enforcing the Constitution, and one of your most highly-visible candidates doesn't know where the concept of 'Separation of Church and State' comes from, that's pretty telling.

    Umm, _all_ political parties have members with widely differing degrees of intelligence. Or shall I assume all Dems have the same mental deficiencies as Hank Johnson? Why don't you pick on Rand Paul or Ken Buck rather than the easy-pickings of Christine O'Donnell (who for very good reason stands no chance at winning the election).

    The belief that you can lump-sum an entire political party, all of its candidates, and all of its constituents simply by their dumbest members is ludicrous and wildly naive. You sir are what is wrong with modern-day politics. Instead of seeing past the lunatic fringe and trying to actually understand a major political movement, you instead allow the loudest and stupidest to taint your viewpoint of an entire group of people. Well, as a libertarian, I disagree with you, but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler.

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