Reproducing an Ancient New World Beer 175
The Edible Geography blog has an amusing piece about Patrick McGovern, the "Indiana Jones of Ancient Ales, Wines, and Extreme Beverages," and his role in the production of a 3,400-year-old Mesoamerican beer recreated from a chemical analysis of pottery fragments. "McGovern describes his collaboration with Dogfish Head craft brewers ... to create a beer based on the core ingredients of early New World alcohol: chocolate beans (in nib form, as the cacao pods are too perishable to transport from Honduras to Delaware), honey, corn, ancho chillis, and annatto. ... The result? Cloudy and quite strong (9% A.B.V.), but more refreshing than you would think: the chocolate is savoury rather than sweet, and the chilli is just a very subtle, almost herbal, aftertaste. There is almost no head."
Excellent! (Score:5, Funny)
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Woosh.
RTFA for more info on this mesoamerican (Mayan) beer.
Joke explained (Score:2)
Okay, feeding the Troll.
I don't understand the joke
The mayan 2012. In 2012, the mayan calendar rolls over.
(Think 999->1000. Except with the mayan dates it's slightly more complicated)
On a western "big, round" new year, like celebrating 1999->2000, you would probably be drinking a *western* alcoholic beverage to celebrate it. Like a bottle of French Champagne.
So with the same reasoning, on a *mayan* calendar roll-over, it should be appropriate to celebrate by drinking a *mesoamerican (mayan)* alcoholic beverage. Like this one.
W
Midas Touch (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Midas Touch (Score:5, Interesting)
Even better, you can make it yourself. The recipe is posted here [www.penn.museum]. Mead making is very, very easy. Combine the honey, water and other ingredients in a big plastic bucket, add some wine (or champagne) yeast, yeast nutrient and yeast energizer, and wait. Siphon out into a carboy when fermentation stops. Yummy.
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But if you do it wrong, you also get methyl alcohol, or so I heard. And that stuff... well you know that yourself.
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Unless I'm very mistaken the only reason the airlock is used is because you want to keep out other yeasts and bacteria that could spoil the 'mead-to-be'.
The airlock is primarily to keep out air and to minimize oxidation of whatever you're fermenting. There is usually a blanket of CO2 on top after fermentation, and the airlock ensures it stays there. Keeping out other yeasts and bacteria is a bonus.
Re:Midas Touch (Score:5, Informative)
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It's not exactly special that Wegman's stocks their beers. They have an oddly large collection of off the wall brews.
After moving far away from the area I now deeply miss Oak Barrel Stout.
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It's well known in a lot of places thanks to the documentary "Beer Wars". In the DC area where I live there are several Dogfish Head alehouses [dogfishalehouse.com] and the local Wegmans stocks several of their beers as well. I don't normally like beer but Dogfish Head makes excellent products with variety and eccentricity that actually taste good.
For those of you one the West Coast: Wegmans is a Rochester-based grocers that puts anything else to shame. Seriously, I moved here from the Bay Area.
Re:Midas Touch (Score:4, Informative)
Dogfish and McGovern also collaborated on: Jiahu, based on chemanalysis of 9000-year-old pottery fragments from China; Sah'tea, based on 9th-century Finnish sahti; and Pangaea, which is more gimmicky than most of Dogfish head's gimmicks, and includes an ingredient from every continent.
Re:Midas Touch (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not really a mead, as it is not primarily honey, but it is good. I like the fact that Dogfish are doing this right. The Japanese brewery that recreated Old Kingdom beer (to the point of reconstructing the original brewing vessels) only did so for one season and distribution was limited. A Californian brewery that recreated one of the 27 known Sumerian beers likewise only did a limited edition. Not all places that sell Dogfish's beers sell Midas Touch though.
Ultimately, there's a huge range of ancient brews that might be very popular but next-to-zero research on the subject and absolutely zero interest from the stores and bars. That has to be fixed before any of this goes anywhere.
For mead, I've produced my own GPLed mead recipe (GPL version 2) which has proven very popular with those who have tried it.
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When it comes to recipes, I'd say the GPL is probably the most draconian "license" you could come up with (as some other guy points out, you can't actually copyright a recipe, so fuck you). You can't serve the finished product without making the recipe available? You can't serve derivative products without making the recipe changes available under a similar license? What if someone uses your recipe as the base for an improvisation, and fail to take notes? S/he wouldn't be able to make the changes to the rec
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Ultimately, there's a huge range of ancient brews that might be very popular but next-to-zero research on the subject and absolutely zero interest from the stores and bars.
The big issue is that ancient beers tended not to keep for very long, which is really important when it comes to commercial sales! Up until the introduction of hops (from the 11th century in Germany, from the 17th in the US) beer would only stay drinkable for a few days. I suppose you could substitute pasteurization these days...
Re:Midas Touch (Score:5, Informative)
On the subject, you actually can't copyright a recipe. Probably.
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/copyright/copyright-realworld/recipe-copyrighting.html [findlaw.com]
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"Trademark" is just for logos, names, tag-lines etc. You couldn't trademark a recipe or ingredient.
You could protect it as a "trade secret" through non-disclosure agreements and such what, which is what people like Coca Cola do. But then that's not really "protecting a recipe" as much as "not telling anyone the recipe".
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You can patent a recipe, though. It would have to be a new recipe that was just invented, however, so this Mayan beer wouldn't qualify. Making it a trade secret generally works better, but then it actually has to be kept secret, and so once again the Mayan beer recipe, which is publicly known, wouldn't qualify.
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Nope. If it can't be copyrighted, you can't put it under any licence, full stop. But that means it's be Public Domain, which is pretty much as liberal a "licence" as you like. So from a "free and open..." perspective, that's probably a win.
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Chocolate (Score:2)
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Re:Midas Touch (Score:4, Insightful)
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Lager is a beer that ferments slowly at low temperatures.
Pale Lager is a light-colored lager beer Pale lagers tend to be dry, lean, clean-tasting and crisp . . . Flavours may be subtle. [wikipedia.org].
American Lager is a pale lager made at a faster pace, sacrificing taste for production. Quality, from a flavor point of view, is very variable within this style and many cheaper examples use a proportion of non-malt additives such [tastings.com]
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This is why American beer sucks: because there is no history, not as much trial-and-error time to get it right as everyone else had.And we haven't even broached the subject of Canadian beer, either, so STFU.
I agree with all of your comments, but I'm not entirely sure that a lack of history, at least with respect to technique, has that much to do with it.
First, American beer makers were (and are) free to import both the people and skills necessary to replicate what was developed over countless years in Europ
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As a Wisconsin resident, I can't agree with your first statement. Most of the breweries here were started by German immigrants, who brought their knowledge and experience to their new home. I don't think a lack of history has anything to do with the quality of American beer. I think cost has the most to do with it, but it is also very unfair to lump all beer made here as sucky American beer. While I personally think the quality of the beers coming from the major breweries is lacking, there are plenty o
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Ummm - yeah, Budweiser sucks. Its also a foreign company (owned in Belgian InBev) as is Miller (owned by South African SAB).
The top three American breweries are currently Sam Adams, Yuengling and Sierra Nevada (and I think New Belgium is fourth). Absolutely nothing to be ashamed of there - all quite fine brews.
And at the very high end, it really isn't even close - many of the best beers in the world are made in the US. This list [beeradvocate.com] is mostly US brews, with a smattering of Belgian and German breweries in the
Almost no head (Score:5, Funny)
welcome to my marriage
The Indiana Jones of Alcohol (Score:5, Funny)
Okay, that is officially the best job description ever.
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"Penetration tester" still seems more amusing...
Re:The Indiana Jones of Alcohol (Score:4, Funny)
THIS BELONGS IN MY STOMACH!
FInally a good story (Score:5, Funny)
There's been a drought of good stories on Slashdot lately, leaving me parched for more. This is a great way to pop open some new discussion, jump in, and drink deeply of the conversation. Did anyone find the actual recipe? I'm thirsty for more knowledge.
Re:FInally a good story (Score:5, Funny)
The puns are just bubbling from you aren't they? Got any more brewing?
Sorry, had to head that one off at the pass.
Re:FInally a good story (Score:5, Funny)
Got any more brewing
Consider the following as a barley funny rough draught.
My approach for whatever ales me when reading Slashot is to reduce the problem to pint-sized portions, then with stout determination engage in vigorous physical activity to ferment a solution, ideally, starting with a bending of the elbow. When possible, I leave it to the barmaid to determine whether the glass is half-empty or half-full.
Cheers.
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he's a lager than Leffe character. No need to be bitter.
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Missing from the article... (Score:3, Funny)
That's not Mayan language, it's Homeric verse. (Score:4, Funny)
Season 8, 18th episode, to be precise.
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Clearly written by an ancient slashdotter, so unaware of the real problems in life...
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I'll drink to that!
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D'oh-eth!
Beer Wars (Score:4, Interesting)
in nib form? (Score:2)
Does the summary mean they are using nib form because 3400 years ago it would have been in nib form to get to that region of the New World, or are they saying they are compromising the original slightly based on the geographic location of the brewer reproducing it today? Surely there is a way to get them to Delaware this day in age...
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How perishable IS this chocolate stuff? I mean Hershey bars are pretty indestructible.
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The cacao beans themselves are pretty hardy, and once dried and roasted are very transportable. What they're talking about is the pulp that surrounds the seeds, which is supposed to be very good, but has an extremely short usable life. Like just hours from harvest. Likely the only practical way to use it would be to build your brewery on the plantation.
Inhaling Beer? (Score:3, Funny)
Heroin users call that chasing the dragon :)
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No, they don't. Heroin vapors and beer foam are not even remotely similar, and I doubt many junkies drink liquid heroin. Equating the responsible enjoyment of a truly interesting, historical, fine craft beer with illegal drug abuse is not funny. Not even when you put a
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Equating the responsible enjoyment of a truly interesting, historical, fine craft beer with illegal drug abuse is not funny. Not even when you put a :) after it.
"Ethanol is one of the oldest recreational drugs."
-Wikipedia
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History of Alcohol (Score:5, Interesting)
Dogish Head also makes Chateau Jihau, which is based on a 9000 year old Chinese recipe. Based on the ingredients of all their historical recreation beers, I can safely say that the ancients just took whatever around them was fermentable, founds some good spices and herbs, and made themselves an alcoholic drink.
Re:History of Alcohol (Score:5, Funny)
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Luckily, when it comes to developing a culinary tradition of booze, those two statements are essentially synonymous....
Homebrew (Score:3, Interesting)
The result? Cloudy and quite strong (9% A.B.V.) (Score:5, Funny)
Not beer. (Score:2, Interesting)
If there's no grain in it, it's not beer. Since the primary carbohydrate source in it is honey, it's mean - honey wine.
And speaking as someone who does historical reproduction cookery: The odds this wine tastes like the source are pretty slim. We don't know what their cacao tasted like or how close the extract shipped from Honduras to Delaware is to the product they would have used. (Reading TFA, it appears that it wasn't very close at all.) We don't know the quality of their honey. (And I bet
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I realize that this is Slashdot, but did you even RTFS? Right up there, the list of ingredients includes corn.
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I don't know how nice this mead is, but you're certainly right that it is not beer.
It's kinda cool, but it's pretty much worthless and meaningless from a historical and scientific standpoint.
Agreed again. It is impossible to duplicate an ancient recipe unless we know for sure that we can use the exact same ingredients and utilize the same preparation methods. This is cool though, an
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That aside, you make several well thought out and voiced points, and I award you One internet for pointing out the fact that because they did not go hunker over a clay pot in the jungles of the Yucatan mumbling ancient rites and sprinkling herbs, that this beer is a mere facsimile of the goat-swill that once was brewed.
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If there's no grain in it, it's not beer.
Not actually true. In it's most basic definition, beer is anything made from fermenting starches. Yes, modern beers use grain for the primary starches, but that wasn't always the truth.
Root beer wasn't always a sickly sweet kid's drink, it once was exactly what the name suggests, beer fermented from roots, primarily sassafras.
Grain became the hands-down favorite because of its relative low cost and high starch content. Which is also why companies like Anheuser-Busch use rice, it's very cheap and high in fer
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Yes, actually true - beer is made from grains. (Hint: Look up how beers were made historically, back in Mesopotamia for example.) Not to mention that you ferment sugars, not starches.
Which is why it's called 'root' beer rather than beer - to differentiate it fr
Bitch, bitch, bitch... (Score:2)
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Where is that bad? Because it's junk science and crappy historical research. Some of us actually care about things other than just getting drunk.
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Pottery fragments? (Score:5, Funny)
How do we know the pottery fragments weren't from a piss pot?
Re:Pottery fragments? (Score:5, Funny)
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"...a 3400-year-old Mesoamerican beer recreated from a chemical analysis of pottery fragments."
How do we know the pottery fragments weren't from a piss pot?
By the lack of a carbamide signal from the spectrographic analysis.
hmm... (Score:2, Funny)
Problem is that after a pint you have an uncontrollable urge to declare your independence, and write a constitution...
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At 9% ABV, your constitution will be your biggest problem after a litre or so.
3,400 years old? Meh (Score:4, Interesting)
How about beer produced with 45 MILLION year old yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae (aka brewer’s yeast)) cultivated from a piece of amber. I've tried it and it's damn good too: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/07/brewery/ [wired.com]
Pfffft... (Score:2)
Sounds good. (Score:2)
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The wrong yeast? (Score:5, Informative)
I haven’t had this particular beer, but I did have the Midas Touch (another Dogfish brand reconstruction), and I rather enjoyed it. It wasn’t nearly as weird or “special” as one might expect; nothing spectacular, but pretty tasty.
However, one thing makes me doubt that either beverage comes anywhere near the original flavour. As per the article, “The fermentation was carried out with a German ale yeast, which is not obtrusive and brings out the flavours of the other ingredients.” The Midas touch certainly tasted like that was the case there, too. However, that long ago there was no such thing as cultivated strains of brewer’s yeast—fermentation was done with wild yeasts (leave the vats open, let naturally occurring yeast spores drift in on the breeze, gaze in wonder as the brew transforms for no reason discernible without a microscope). As anyone who has had a Lambic beer (still made with spontaneous fermentation) can attest, spontaneously fermented beers taste vastly different from beers fermented with cultivated yeast: Wikipedia calls it “bracingly sour”.
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While you have a good point, I don't think it's likely that this was a sour beer. The first thing to keep in mind is that this is a strong beer--9% ABV. Most sour beers (including lambics) are in the range of 3-5% ABV because the lactic acid bacteria can't handle the higher levels of alcohol.
Secondly, lambics are aged for at least a year or two (and in reality lambics probably get most of the bacteria that make them interesting from the oak barrels in which they're aged). If this beer was drunk when it wa
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Indeed. There are many spontaneously fermented beers on sale in Belgium. They do taste quite different.
Try making your own ... (Score:2, Informative)
Making your own (good) beer at home is straight-forward. From there, the sky's the limit -- it's easy to add fruit, cocoa nibs (really, really freaking good to add when fermentation is done -- about a quarter pound per 5 gallons), honey, spices, you name it. You just need about one hundred dollars' worth of equipment, patience, a bottle of bleach, and some empties.
Calagione even has a beginner's book to extreme brewing, http://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Brewing-Enthusiasts-Guide-Craft/dp/1592532934/ref=sr_1_3?i
Dogfish Head (Score:3, Informative)
BTW, Dogfish Head IPA is truly outstanding brew. Give it a try. You won't be sorry.
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Oh just look at their mortality of their men from around 40 years of age, chiefly alcohol-related.
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Re:Want to buy (Score:5, Informative)
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... retail locations, all in Delaware.
Their products are available (almost*) nationwide, and in some international locations.
* Except for a small number of states that do not permit distribution of regular-ABV beers.
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I followed a few links and discovered Dogfish Head originally published this beer in June of 2008. Its called "Theobroma".
http://www.dogfish.com/brews-spirits/the-brews/occassional-rarities/theobroma.htm [dogfish.com]
The blog article in question was just written in May, so I'm assuming he either got an old bottle or the brewers did another production run. I'm going to ask my local dogfish head distributor about it next time I go in and hopefully he can track some down for me.
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Theobroma hit retail availability two years ago, and is pretty widely carried. When in season, it's not hard to find - ask your retailer to ask their distributor to get some stock. Follow @dogfishbeer on twitter to know when they're brewing which recipe.
Re:Want to buy (Score:4, Informative)
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AC had a few. (Score:5, Funny)
Really? How many Ancient Ales did you have tonight?
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Beer fundamentalists, like other fundamentalists, have less fun.
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Have you been to Belgium? That's a whole country that will disagree with you. I've been enjoying a very nice wheat beer recently with a touch of coriander and orange in it - perfect for sitting in the summer sun by the river. There's a time and place for everything, and I'm just as happy with downing a couple of pints of bitter if I have 20 mins to unwind and chat to work colleagues on my way home.