Police Called Over 11-Year-Old's Science Project 687
garg0yle writes "Police in San Diego were called to investigate an 11-year-old's science project, consisting of 'a motion detector made out of an empty Gatorade bottle and some electronics,' after the vice-principal came to the conclusion that it was a bomb. Charges aren't being laid against the youth, but it's being recommended that he and his family 'get counseling.' Apparently, the student violated school policies — I'm assuming these are policies against having any kind of independent thought?"
I recommend ... (Score:5, Funny)
That everyone should stick some coloured wires into cardboard tubes, then leave them lying about all over the place. The more the merrier.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Informative)
Just take a look at United Nuclear [unitednuclear.com] or this book [amazon.com] to see some serious science fair projects, and imagine how some of those would of went down for the poor kid!
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't necessarily ineptitude that causes school officials to make decisions like this. The basic reasoning boils down to the fact that the school officials will take little if any flack for over reacting in the name of safety, but they will lose their jobs and be raked through the mud if they fail to react to an "obvious" threat.
Part of the problem is that no one ever gets rewarded for the issues they chose to ignore. So there is no benefit to the principal to ignore what they think is a possible threat even if the probability of it being a threat is vanishingly small.
The end result is that school officials with a high self interest will put their self interest in front of everyone else (the authorities who are wasting their time, the students out of class, the student directly involved, the parents who have to come pick up all the students early, etc), since they are more worried about the ramifications to themselves than the trouble they may cause for others.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree, there is seemingly a large amount of stupidity involved in the situation.
The principal not only could have, but SHOULD have interviewed the student to ascertain the risk. However, say the principal is sitting there with the student with a device with wires sticking out of it all over the place. The principal doesn't know enough about electronics to to be sure whether it is a safe device, or is indeed a bomb. Additionally, the principal doesn't trust the student since if it is a bomb the student probably wouldn't admit to it.
So, given this situation, the principal, as a self optimizing and very self interested individual, decides that there is no advantage or reason for them to take the risk of trusting the student. They error way over on the side of caution since there is no compelling reason for them not to.
Until there are actual ramifications for raising a false alarm, issues like this are not only likely to continue, but inevitable. If the school or principal was billed for the cost of a false alarm (or just a token percentage of it) then I would be will to bet that you would see the cases of false alarms drop dramatically.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
This article didn't make sense. It says the student broken no laws, but he was in violatino of school policy? What kind of policy prevents them from bringing in harmless science projects?
"The student will not be prosecuted, but authorities were recommending that he and his parents get counseling, the spokesman said. The student violated school policies, but there was no criminal intent, Luque said."
Why the hell would they recommend counseling for a non-violent and non-criminal act?
Is there a better link regarding this article?
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Interesting)
The school's statement makes no sense either. The school's policies are published here [mtechmiddle.org] I don't see where he ran afoul of them.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is in no way confined to schools, of course.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
In most cases, "Don't make Admin look stupid, especially if they are." is implied policy #0. .
Of course, schools are designed to teach kids how the real world works.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
In most cases, "Don't make Admin look stupid, especially if they are." is implied policy #0..
Sounds like they can manage that by themselves.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
The school's statement does make sense, I'm sure it was to calm parents.
"Don't worry, we have rules and guidelines, and a system in place that would have caught this had it been real. We're like all over that. He broke the rules, had it been a real thing we would have stopped him before he did anything"
It's lies obviously, since the kid did nothing wrong, but that's what the purpose of that was, to cover their own asses and make sure at the next PTA they don't get "They're NOT THINKING OF THE CHILDREN! This could have been a terrorist attack! This shouldn't happen!"
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Informative)
Funny thing is; had it indeed been a bomb, they would have been too late as it was already inside the building.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
The sad truth is nobody is thinking of the children. They are our future and it looks like a pretty bleak one right now. Where every kid who displays an ounce ingenuity, exceptional achievement, or even exceptional interest in a particular topic of field is labeled as a potential threat.
How likely is this kid after this experience to want to participate in a science fair again? How likely is he to share is projects with teachers who might be able to mentor him? Now even if teachers would be willing to put the extra time in the kid is going to be afraid to ask.
We are looking at a system that is effectively geared to NOT develop the talents of our best and brightest!
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe some instruction would be in order.
Rule one. Don't scare the sheep.
Rule two. Don't scare the sheep that thinks they are in charge.
I think that making this guy look like a fool might be a good thing. I would have been all with letting him keep his dignity up till the CYA part at the end.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
This happens all the time with terror suspects, like that guy who was puking in the bathroom on the plane a few weeks ago. He was labeled a "terrorist" because of the color of his skin and yet the government and the racist airline employee managed to come out looking like heroes. How? They spew this bullshit about "have to be cautious" and "he was suspicious" and they imply there was actually danger "we were lucky it was a false alarm".
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why the hell would they recommend counseling for a non-violent and non-criminal act?
By recommending something vaguely punitive (and "magnanimously" forgoing billing the childs family for the expense), the authorities are attempting to prevent blame from shifting from the child and his family to the place that it actually belongs: the authorities
recommending counseling is an attempt to maintain the appearance that the child actually did something wrong.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
However, say the principal is sitting there with the student with a device with wires sticking out of it all over the place. The principal doesn't know enough about electronics to to be sure whether it is a safe device, or is indeed a bomb. Additionally, the principal doesn't trust the student since if it is a bomb the student probably wouldn't admit to it.
Someone who personally knows the student and could accurately assess the situation should have been there. The principle, and assistant principle or just a teacher. Was there no-one around who actually knew the kid ? Seems like a pretty bad school to me.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
*twitch*
" unless we can somehow reduce the risk that people are going to come and shoot their classmates,"
To negative numbers? The chances of a kid dying in a violent crime involving explosives at a school are so low that you need a scientific calculator to display them. Compare that to the mortality rate in high-school football: http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980610033631data_trunc_sys.shtml
The problem won't be solved until idiots that fail to understand basic statistics aren't allowed to graduate high school. Though jailing any idiot that ever excuses incidents like this with any permutation of the phrase "they['re] do[ing] the best they can".
There's a quote which I fear I cannot find in order to cite, but to paraphrase:
"If all the well-intentioned were killed at birth, the remaining evil-doers would be small potatoes by comparison."
You are a FUCKING IDIOT (Score:4, Insightful)
You are constantly obsessed with un-real threats, fixing problems that don't exist, and simply a GENERAL denial of common sense, justified on stupid rules and panicky process. Eg TSA
This kid was VICTIMIZED, should sue the vice-principle, inter alia, for slander of reputation (in his trade of profession, as a school student) and for distress and the suit should enjoin the school Board, and the County. His parents should have at least one with balls.
He is entitles to an APOLOGY, DAMAGES, and full reparation of his REPUTATION, and equal publicity, if necessary paid for by the Board, and since the costs were vicarious should be sanctioned across the Board members by a levy.
Re:You are a FUCKING IDIOT (Score:5, Insightful)
You should calm down, it's really not that big of a deal.
You should wake up. It is a very big deal. This child was harmed (to what degree, only a psych eval could fully determine) by those who are in loco parentis and charged with his well-being. That assistant principal abrogated his responsibilities, and should certainly be removed from any position of authority over the students. I agree 100% with the GP: at the very least that prick should have to stand up in front of the entire student body and apologize to the student. Won't happen here, of course, but in a just world it most certainly would.
Some redress is in order. I haven't been that young since the sixties, but if it had happened to me, believe me, my family would have made damn sure there were consequences to that school and the arrogant fools who apparently "administer" it. You really need to acquire a little empathy for the kid: he suffered a terrifying experience through no fault of his own whatsoever, at the hands of someone who would better serve the school by slapping burgers in the lunchroom. You think that boy is going to walk away from this unscathed?
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
they shouldn't bring things in that scare their administrators
As a Finn I hope this happens. You know, stifling imagination and inventiveness is a sure way to ensure competitiveness will drop too.
Anything can, and will, scare other people. Teddy bears to geocaching to advertisements to ...
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
And, since they have NO evidence of ANYTHING, they will loose.
Sadly, they won't lose.
If the parents choose to make an issue out of this, the school division will line up solidly behind this guy, and it will sit in lawyer hell until after the kid's graduated. I know an example where the parent's lawyer told them it would cost $250,000 and ten years, and at the end the school will give them a very nice apology - basically, that it wasn't worth pursuing.
The best solution for the kid and parents is preferably to change schools - the place advertises itself as a tech-focused school, but freaks out when kids make science projects? Barring that, you're stuck playing passive-aggressive with the admins - send notes excusing your kid from homework because of "concerns that it may be mistaken for explosive devices"...
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Funny)
The end result is that school officials with a high self interest will put their self interest in front of everyone else (the authorities who are wasting their time, the students out of class, the student directly involved, the parents who have to come pick up all the students early, etc), since they are more worried about the ramifications to themselves than the trouble they may cause for others.
That's why I have always been in favour of school consisting of a transport vehicle going around picking up each kid individually and placing each into their own stasispod. Then said stasispod is driven to a building were they will be stacked up for 10 hours and all interaction will be committed virtually with the kids never leaving their respective pods. If any student violates policy or acts in a threatening manner the pod can be disconnected from the hub and driven directly to the nearest correctional facility. Safety first!
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think you can frame this as game theory; the staff of the school are not reacting in this way in order to maximize their personal benefit (or minimize their personal loss). Whilst I concede that some people do think in this way, teaching selects out that characteristic by being an underpaid and overworked profession for the level of education and aptitude they have.
The problem is that the staff are not permitted to make any kind of decision themselves; they are completely servile to the institution and the institution cannot be expected to exhibit human rationality.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
School administrators are often failed teachers or P.E. instructors with a career in the classroom that can be measured in 5 years or less. They are truly inept and feel that a tasted of the education system of any kind makes them qualified to then lead entire schools in turn.
The man in this story is simply a moron who did not rationally discuss anything about the construction of the device with the child to draw intelligent conclusions. He had a knee-jerk reaction because that's what stupid people do when presented with things they don't - or refuse to - understand.
Sadly this is absolutely the norm in school districts all across America, and has been for a few decades. The education system isn't flawed, just that the standards for these types of positions are _incredibly_ low.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Insightful)
When I was about 15 (20 years ago), we used to make little (~1m x 1m x 1m) hot air balloons out of tissue paper and use methylated spirits as the fuel. On one occasion our bottle of fuel was leaking - the lid had cracked or something and didn't fit tightly - so we chucked a cloth under the lid to stop it spilling. We were just about to head out the door when my dad pointed out that the fuel bottle (which I was carrying in my hand) looked uncannily like a molotov cocktail, and that we might want to reconsider how we carried it. Back then, had someone noticed, we might have been confronted by a policeman wanting to make sure we weren't up to too much mischief... I wouldn't like to think about what would have happened if we tried the same sort of thing today.
It must suck a bit to be a kid in these times. There's no way I'm going to take my kids on an airplane... not because I fear for their safety, but because I just know that one of them will think it hilarious to make a joke about a bomb, and nobody else is going to find it funny.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I live in an Australia city now, but when my kids get to the inquisitive age, I'll have to pack up and move back to the bush - I like north queensland ... barrier reef.
We used to combine all sorts of nasty chemicals together as kids to see what would give a good bang. After many experiments we worked out which ones generally reacted together. Dad made sure there were textbooks lying around so we could work out what the reactions were and why (we were left to do this on our own - not forced to do so). We also built lots of electronics and mechanical contraptions from supplies we found and collected from the farm dumps. All kinds of shit really; No such thing as boredom.
I now have three science degrees; Mathematics, Computer and Organic Chemistry. Brother is an orthopaedic surgeon.
There is no way we could do that in the current environment where we live now. Too many nannies would get their panties in a twist. I do feel sorry for kids today. Kids will be kids.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:4, Informative)
I am sorry to tell you this guys but, you (USA) have lost the war against terrorism.
The Terrorists have won and brought your society to their knees.
Sorry.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Funny)
The Terrorists have won and brought your society to their knees.
Did not! We managed that all on our own thank you very much.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Insightful)
The terrorists do not have to win in order for us to lose.
Re:I recommend ... (Score:5, Informative)
Those who can do,
those who can't teach,
From every good teacher you ever had:
Fuck You.
We're on our way! (Score:3, Insightful)
To an Idiocracy!
Public school administrators are leading the way!
Re:We're on our way! (Score:5, Insightful)
And the politicians wonder why it is that America has trouble getting kids interested in the sciences.
I can understand that an assistant principle might not have any idea how bombs are made. There's no shame in that. However, he probably should have talked to the child's teacher before he called the fire department. My guess is that the kid had to tell his teacher ahead of time what he was making. I have never heard of a science fair where you weren't required to pre-register your experiment. How hard would it have been to talk the the science teacher before calling the bomb squad?
Now, if the teacher thought that the device was a bomb (especially if he knew before hand that the kid was working on a proximity detector) then shame on him. I mean seriously, how hard would it have been to do a little research beforehand.
Re:We're on our way! (Score:5, Informative)
Reading the article (I know, but someone has to :-) ) it seems that it wasn't a Science Fair project, it was just something the kid had been playing around with at home and then brought it in to show his friends. The kid violated school policies and that is why they said he should get counselling.
So the school has a policy banning kids from being inventive and wanting to show that inventiveness off. Anyway - thats one kid the school system has scared off technology - well done San Diego Unified School District.
Re:We're on our way! (Score:5, Insightful)
Reading the article (I know, but someone has to :-) ) it seems that it wasn't a Science Fair project, it was just something the kid had been playing around with at home and then brought it in to show his friends. The kid violated school policies
No he didn't... the school policies are here:
http://www.mtechmiddle.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=58810&type=d&termREC_ID=&pREC_ID=87933&hideMenu=1&rn=8708720 [mtechmiddle.org]
After looking twice I can't even find the part where it says "may not bring guns or knives or other weapons", let alone "may not bring anything that could possibly at a distance be mistaken for something dangerous".
and that is why they said he should get counselling.
Personally I think the school should pay for counseling, since the only reason he would need it is for the trauma of being treated like a terrorist :-)
So the school has a policy banning kids from being inventive and wanting to show that inventiveness off. Anyway - thats one kid the school system has scared off technology - well done San Diego Unified School District.
The ironic thing is that this is supposed to be a "Tech Magnet" school. Quoting from their mission statement:
All Millennial Tech Middle School students will cultivate their technology skills to enhance their motivation and curiosity to excel academically in order to become productive citizens that will drastically impact the developing information age.
All Millennial Tech Middle School students will cultivate their science, technology, engineering, and mathematics skills to enhance their motivation to excel academically in order to become global leaders and productive citizens in their chosen career path.
That sounds like the kids might be expected to construct fun things related to science.
Granted, it also sounds like you should expect your kid to be traumatized by the teachers. Not by the police, though.
Remove the colored chalk . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the student supposed to get counseling for? The trauma the school put him through for no reason? More likely, so the school authorities can point to the fact that the kid got counseling to show something is wrong with him (and not them)
I'd like to recommend the authorities get some counseling. Either that, or a clue, but counseling is easier to come by.
Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:4, Funny)
Perhaps they meant the vice principal was to seek counseling? Otherwise his fears may simply stop his poor heart one day.
Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:5, Insightful)
Counsel, as in legal counsel perhaps. That's who I would talk to first.
Instead of an abject apology, the school has the gall to toss the blame on the parents and student? Good thing the school emphasizes technology, I can't imagine what sort of idiot is the vice principal for a 'normal' school.
another misleading summary (Score:5, Informative)
If you RTFA, it looks like the cops are saying that they should get counseling because the kid and parents were upset by the incident.
Regardless of whether the search was reasonable, do you realize how misled you (and many others, including those who've responded to you) have been by the summary's "scare quotes"? The summary makes it sounds like the kid is being sent in for "reprogramming".
I'm probably wasting my time typing this, because it won't change anything anyway. Slashdotters will primarily continue to curse the way the government misleads the citizens, then turn around and fall for this kind of crap.
Re:another misleading summary (Score:5, Informative)
I agree it's sort of hard to know one way or the other, but I think the author of the article is implying the student and parents need counseling so this sort of thing doesn't happen again. The article's statement about counseling was stated right after it discussed the fire officials searching the home for explosives. And, it was in the same paragraph that said the student wasn't going to be prosecuted, but violated school policies. The article does talk about the student and parents being upset, but that's a little later in the article.
Maybe the author of the article is misleading us, but (somewhat uncharacteristically) Slashdot's summary seems to be pretty accurate.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's quick, cheap, and simple. The kid needs to be counseled that some people are easily frightened. Some people are ignorant. Some people aren't the least bit intellectually curious. Some people are idiots. Most importantly, people who have all of these characteristics, plus psychopathic behavior, are elevated to positions of power and authority. Just like his associate principal. Of course, the kid's probably already figured that out.
Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:4, Insightful)
Or maybe the kid was trying to impress his friends by acting like the thing was a bomb. While I'm sure the school/police/fire dept overreacted, kids do strange stuff and often don't realize the consequences of their actions.
All that is mentioned in the article is:
Maurice Luque, spokesman for the San Diego Fire-Rescue Department, said the student had been making the device in his home garage. A vice principal saw the student showing it to other students at school about 11:40 a.m. Friday and was concerned that it might be harmful, and San Diego police were notified.
The school, which has about 440 students in grades 6 to 8 and emphasizes technology skills, was initially put on lockdown while authorities responded.
Both the student and his parents were "very cooperative" with authorities, Luque said. He said fire officials also went to the student's home and checked the garage to make sure items there were neither harmful nor explosive.
The student will not be prosecuted, but authorities were recommending that he and his parents get counseling, the spokesman said. The student violated school policies, but there was no criminal intent, Luque said.
Now I can't say what policies he might have violated; though from what little is said in the article one is left with the impression that the vice principal in question overacted (or erred on the side of caution). I can understand that after going through such an event that the kid in question might need a bit of counselling to deal with the fact that he got hanged out in-front of the whole school as a possible terrorist. So I hope that is what they are talking about, and not that he "needs counselling" because he inadvertently scared a frightened adult administrator.
Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:5, Insightful)
Once, when I was a student, I tried to get a copy of the school's policy manual. I was politely but firmly told to sit down and shut up. To be honest, I don't believe that such things even exist, or if they are they are so broadly defined as to be useless for informing behaviour.
Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:5, Insightful)
Once, when I was a student, I tried to get a copy of the school's policy manual. I was politely but firmly told to sit down and shut up. To be honest, I don't believe that such things even exist, or if they are they are so broadly defined as to be useless for informing behaviour.
Policies must always be worded in such a convoluted way as to remain open to any interpretation most serving the administration at any given time. Asking for the policy documentation is in itself a breach of policy and highly suspicious and subversive behaviour. Any questioning of authority is a sign of anti-social and destructive behaviour.
At my daughters school... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Counseling gets the school off the hook (Score:5, Funny)
Now I can't say what policies he might have violated; ...
Someone on the comment thread attached to the FA gave an actual link to the school's actual policies. [mtechmiddle.org]
There's nothing there about bringing in an electronics project, though I guess there was always the possibility that he was so enamored with it that he engaged in a "public display of affection".
Administratium is dense (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what happens when the students are smarter than the teachers.
Re:Administratium is dense (Score:4, Interesting)
s/teachers/administrators/
Sounds like the kid was showing it off at lunch and the vice principal freaked.
Reminds me of one time in high school when we were given an assignment by our English teacher. I don't entirely remember the specifics, but we were supposed to take pictures of stuff and make a slideshow that somehow related to the book we were reading.
So we go over to the theatre department and grab a wooden rifle prop (as in, something made out of a black broomstick with a wooden handle) and end up in an area with half the windows in the school facing us. So the school security guard comes and tells us he could have justified shooting us, and tells us to get back inside.
Re:Administratium is dense (Score:5, Insightful)
So the school security guard comes and tells us he could have justified shooting us, and tells us to get back inside.
They armed the school security guard? That's fucked up right there all by itself. The chance of a school guard actually needing to use a weapon is going to be vanishingly small - certainly much smaller than the chance of accidentally shooting someone.
Lesson Learned (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't do anything to attract attention to yourself ever.
Re:Lesson Learned (Score:5, Funny)
Don't do anything to attract attention to yourself ever.
Anyone actively trying not to attract attention must be a terrorist!
Apparently, not so much (Score:5, Insightful)
The school, which has about 440 students in grades 6 to 8 and emphasizes technology skills, was initially put on lockdown while authorities responded.
...Stu
Re:Apparently, not so much (Score:5, Insightful)
The student violated school policies, but there was no criminal intent, Luque said.
The policies emphasizing technology? Or the policies forbidding technology?
The student will not be prosecuted, but authorities were recommending that he and his parents get counseling, the spokesman said.
It is clear it is not the student that requires counselling.
...Stu
Call themselves teachers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Call themselves teachers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Call themselves teachers? (Score:4, Interesting)
Hardly. The public school system is not a free market, where for more money you can attract higher levels of talent (and sanity). Paying more means paying the same people higher salaries, depending not on demonstrated ability, but rather the number of years they have been in the system.
If the salary level in the schools is lowered to minimum wage, there wouldn't be any qualified teachers left. If you agree on that, we agree that the salary level does indeed have an effect. Now, I agree that significantly increasing salary wouldn't have as an immediate effect as decreasing it - there is a significant lag when improving conditions. However, increased pay would retain many of the good teachers who move away from teaching, and make teaching a more attractive career for students looking at different career paths. Thus, the average would slowly improve.
Another problem is, what is a good teacher? A teacher in the best areas of Silicon Valley has a very different set of pupils and parents than a teacher in a poor inner city district somewhere - I expect the results on standardized tests would be very different, even if the latter teacher knew his subjects better and was better at motivating and coaching. I even expect that the skill sets needed would be very different.
Re:Call themselves teachers? (Score:4, Interesting)
The more an expert you are in one area, the lower the odds that you are an expert in an unrelated area.
School superintendents are (for the most part) some of the most technologically inept people in the building. They're schooled to manage budgets, staff, student problems, parents, PTAs, school boards, etc, not be geeks. In high school in speech class we were broken into groups to compose and film skits. We had to submit our story before we started recording. The finale' of our skit was a bomb failing to be diffused and blowing up something.
Me being the geek in the group, I was propmaster for the bomb. And I did a pretty good job I think. Looked like a substantial brick of C4 with attached detonator and timer. The wire was the stereotypical brightly colored curly wires, and the timer was displaying like a clock. The skit went off very well, but the prop was misplaced after the skit, though we found it shortly later and thought nothing of it. I only found out some years later where it spent those 10 minutes.
Attached to a locker beside the main office. A certain student "planted" it, and just as he was walking away, the vice principal walked out of the office. To save from being caught, he shouted "omg a bomb!" and ran. I guess the VP's face turned stone white and he sprinted back into the office. Thinking smartly, the kid spun around and grabbed the prop and returned it to our class room. I'm assuming the VP came back out of the office with the rest of the staff (evacuating?) and found no bomb and was left with some egg on his face, but it could have EASILY gotten the school evacuated now that we look back on it. And this was 19 yrs ago. Just try to imagine the insanity that would have ensued today? I'm sure it would have involved the bomb squad and a small detonation in the parking lot. But I can't blame the VP for not realizing it was a joke, for him everything was stacked pretty well against him. But a gatorade bottle with a photosensor? really?
Part of the problem here is that an IED can be extremely difficult to identify. Odds are if it looks like a bomb to the layman, it's probably a prop.
That being said, the last school I worked at, the principal was one of the most tech savvy people in the building short of me, so you can't take anything for granted.
Re:Call themselves teachers? (Score:4, Insightful)
My daughter's school has a policy against bringing toys to school; that is probably the policy this kid violated. He almost certainly is not the one that needs counseling.
Are we getting the whole story here? (Score:4, Funny)
I love one of the comments... (Score:3, Insightful)
Talk about overreacting (Score:5, Insightful)
This is part of the "nervous Nellie" reactions that have developed over the past few years. We should be encouraging inquisitiveness, exploration and learning in our children or we will just produce more mediocre administrators. Kids do things at home, bring them to school and show their friends. As long as it was not clearly a weapon or some other prohibited device there should not be a problem with it.
We are applying the same "sterile area" rules that supposedly exist in our airports to our schools. Will TSA be staffing the schools to keep out prohibited items?
Unless the child lied about what the device was it appears that the principal overreacted and did not apply too much common sense. It sounds like a pretty cool idea to use a Gatoraide bottle as a focusing point for a sonic device. Smart kid to think that through and to try something with it.
How many people who read /. have tried out other things like this in their childhood? Most of us have.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Science fairs before High School.... (Score:5, Interesting)
So my project was removed, and I was instructed not to build any more hydroponic settups in my spare time... Which my parents told me to ignore in my own home, but still.....
Re:Science fairs before High School.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Science fairs before High School.... (Score:5, Insightful)
So they told you that you had a great way to grow marijuana? Thats nice of them. I wonder what experience led them to that idea.
Re:Science fairs before High School.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Fucked up paranoia (Score:5, Insightful)
That's fucked up beyond 1984.
Cooperative (Score:5, Interesting)
...his home also had to be checked...
Yes, that's the most shocking part of the story to me as well. I'm not sure I'd be very cooperative with the authorities if I were the parents. I think I'd turn it into yet another learning moment, showing the kid how not to bow unquestioningly to authority. I'd have called an attorney, and politely declined the search until a proper warrant was served.
I'm guessing the parents were horrified to learn of the inconvenience imposed by the morons in charge, and wanted to get it over quickly and prove that their kid was good, so I don't fault them at all for cooperating. But they weren't responsible for the hysteria, and they shouldn't have been pressured to comply. It's as if the authorities allowed the administration to hold the entire school hostage, until this unfortunate family was forced to prove its own innocence. It's quite insane.
Insane times we live in. (Score:5, Interesting)
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) says
Ironically while flying out of KMCI on my way to Iraq for the Air Force I had to go through the extra security screening. Mind you I'm in full military uniform, desert BDUs, boots, boonie hat, M4 in tow sure enough though I had to take off my boots and all metal objects and get the wand ran over me and extra check through my carry on. Let's ignore the fact that I'm carrying a rifle onboard!
Common sense sometimes does not apply.
In the case of the elderly lady I see nothing whatsoever wrong with her getting the same screening as everyone else. Terrorists will use whatever they can to exploit a weakness; that could be a handicapped person, the elderly and children.
Stop the world, it has gone mad, I want to get off.
This really takes the cake (Score:5, Interesting)
I thought I couldn't be more surprised by crazy school administrator and police stupidity, but I was wrong.
Everyone really should read TFA this time.
From TFA:
So, having electronics in your backpack is grounds for evacuating a TECH MAGNET?
Seriously?
What happened to the country that put the first man on the moon? We have gone completely insane.
Re: (Score:3)
Litigation happened. On the day you can be absolutely right, but any parent can still sue you for endangering their child and get a nice retirement payout from the schools insurance policy.
No substance? (Score:5, Funny)
Luque said the project was made of an empty half-liter Gatorade bottle with some wires and other electrical components attached. There was no substance inside.
This kid is clearly a genius. He has created the worlds first 100% hard vacuum, in a soft drink bottle no less. He has even eliminated zero point energy.
Electronics are scary (Score:5, Interesting)
When I was in college, I would periodically bring my electronics homework home from Albany to Phoenix. I would usually work on it the entire time tray tables were allowed. Often I didn't need a textbook, only my engineering paper (overpriced graph paper) and my calculator. I would often make those next to me nervous, but obviously I couldn't harm anyone with paper and a pencil. Well, significantly anyway.
As I got to the intermediate classes, I would often find myself with schematics, a bag of chips and wires, and a breadboard. Again, plenty of time to just sit there, I would wire up my breadboard with the chips, wires, and my Leatherman. I had more than a few flight attendants strike up a conversation with me long enough to find out that I was going home / to school, was an engineering student, and was working on a finite state machine / simple computer / complicated blinky light thing. "Wanna see? This is so cool! Watch these eight lights blink! I can program it with these switches!" The only time the conversation lasted even a sentence longer was when I was building laser tag. "No, it doesn't actually have any lasers, they just use that name because it sounds cool. It actually works like your remote control to your TV."
Even at the time, I was fully aware that any technical work done in a public place would draw the skepticism, imagination, and periodically, fear of those around me. Of course, this was in the mid 90's. Times and personal liberties on airplanes in particular are very different. Now, they'd throw a fit if I tried to take my Leatherman near the plane, let alone the chips and bundle of wires running off a 9 volt. I'm much more mature now, and now I see no reason to make people uncomfortable on an airplane in order to stretch their preconceptions.
The kid and his parents now learned a valuable lesson. Work transparently. Don't hide it in a bottle. When it's complete, more times than not, it shouldn't have a top case. If it needs a case, no external wires should be visible.
A day with the vice principal (Score:5, Funny)
He bolted out of bed and carefully defused the alarm clock before it went off, after concluding that... it was a bomb.
He went to shave, but before turning it on decided to throw the razor out the window after concluding that... it was a bomb.
He decided not to make toast after concluding that the toaster was...
Better not drive, he thought...
Got on a bus. There was a guy with a radio. He called 911. Got off the bus before the police arrived though.
Arrived at school. Reported science fair project as possible bomb.
Police showed up at school. Hey? Are you the guy who called 911?
School policy (Score:5, Interesting)
There's a new DVD out called The War on Kids [thewaronkids.com]. The thesis is that schools are prisons and are about surveillance, metal detectors, and control. One of the best parts is where they are receiving a tour through a school, and they ask to see the library, which has a high-security metal door with metal grate over the glass. The principal can't find the key and asks, "did you really need to get in here?"
Learning is against school policy.
If you REALLY want to let them know what you think (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the Contact Us page for Millennial Tech Middle School.
http://www.mtechmiddle.org/apps/contact/?rn=8783875 [mtechmiddle.org]
Maybe if enough people ask, they'll actually tell someone why they have a complete fucking moron in a position of scholastic authority over their kids.
Article missing a critical detail. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Article missing a critical detail. (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anyone know the exact wording of this "policy"?
"Students shall not perform any action that could result in any staff member looking like an incompetent moron"
Re:Article missing a critical detail. (Score:4, Informative)
Sure. I'll save you the read: there is nothing relevant in there.
http://www.mtechmiddle.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=58810&type=d&termREC_ID=&pREC_ID=87933&hideMenu=1&rn=6634111 [mtechmiddle.org]
Their About Us/Mission and Vision Statement is a gas, though.
Well in my book, (Score:5, Insightful)
that vice-principal is a terrorist. ;)
It’s exactly what the dictionary says. (I don’t mean the 11th edition of the newspeak one, that you may think of.
He terrorizes an 11 year old child. (Think of the children!) He terrorizes the whole family. He causes fear, terror that requires police intervention.
I say, make an example and ship him to Gitmo, in exchange for a honest American who sits down there just because his parents immigrated from the wrong country. ;)
I’d call that the American spirit!
Protest To The School (Score:5, Informative)
Here's some counseling (Score:5, Insightful)
Kid, keep up the good work, and move to a school with smarter officials.
What you say?!?! (Score:5, Funny)
Someone set us up the bomb!!!
We get signal!!!
How are you idiots??? All your sense are belong to us!!!
John Talyor Gatto: A Conspiracy Against Ourselves (Score:5, Insightful)
An excerpt from "The Underground History of American Education":
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/16a.htm [johntaylorgatto.com]
"""
Solve this problem and school will heal itself: children know that schooling is not fair, not honest, not driven by integrity. They know they are devalued in classes and grades, that the institution is indifferent to them as individuals. The rhetoric of caring contradicts what school procedure and content say, that many children have no tolerable future and most have a sharply proscribed one. The problem is structural. School has been built to serve a society of associations: corporations, institutions, and agencies. Kids know this instinctively. How should they feel about it? How should we?
As soon as you break free of the orbit of received wisdom you have little trouble figuring out why, in the nature of things, government schools and those private schools which imitate the government model have to make most children dumb, allowing only a few to escape the trap. The problem stems from the structure of our economy and social organization. When you start with such pyramid-shaped givens and then ask yourself what kind of schooling they would require to maintain themselves, any mystery dissipates--these things are inhuman conspiracies all right, but not conspiracies of people against people, although circumstances make them appear so. School is a conflict pitting the needs of social machinery against the needs of the human spirit. It is a war of mechanism against flesh and blood, self-maintaining social mechanisms that only require human architects to get launched.
I'll bring this down to earth. Try to see that an intricately subordinated industrial/commercial system has only limited use for hundreds of millions of self-reliant, resourceful readers and critical thinkers. In an egalitarian, entrepreneurially based economy of confederated families like the one the Amish have or the Mondragon folk in the Basque region of Spain, any number of self-reliant people can be accommodated usefully, but not in a concentrated command-type economy like our own. Where on earth would they fit? In a great fanfare of moral fervor some years back, the Ford Motor Company opened the world's most productive auto engine plant in Chihuahua, Mexico. It insisted on hiring employees with 50 percent more school training than the Mexican norm of six years, but as time passed Ford removed its requirements and began to hire school dropouts, training them quite well in four to twelve weeks. The hype that education is essential to robot-like work was quietly abandoned. Our economy has no adequate outlet of expression for its artists, dancers, poets, painters, farmers, filmmakers, wildcat business people, handcraft workers, whiskey makers, intellectuals, or a thousand other useful human enterprises--no outlet except corporate work or fringe slots on the periphery of things. Unless you do "creative" work the company way, you run afoul of a host of laws and regulations put on the books to control the dangerous products of imagination which can never be safely tolerated by a centralized command system.
Before you can reach a point of effectiveness in defending your own children or your principles against the assault of blind social machinery, you have to stop conspiring against yourself by attempting to negotiate with a set of abstract principles and rules which, by its nature, cannot respond. Under all its disguises, that is what institutional schooling is, an abstraction which has escaped its handlers. Nobody can reform it. First you have to realize that human values are the stuff of madness to a system; in systems-logic the schools we have are already the schools the system needs; the only way they could be much improved is to have kids eat, sleep, live, and die there.
Schools got the way they were at the start of the twentieth century as part of a vast, intensely engineered social revolution in which all major institutions were overhauled to wo
Now I understand! (Score:4, Insightful)
Recovering costs (Score:5, Insightful)
Police and fire officials also will not seek to recover costs associated with responding to the incident, the spokesman said.
Translation: We realize we screwed up and don't want to be laughed at in court.
I would have been sent to Guantanamo Bay (Score:5, Insightful)
If they treated kids like this in the 70's, I would have been declared a threat to the free world. I taught myself how to solder when I was 10, and I was into building all kinds of electronics kits and projects. I was also into model rocketry and built multi-stage rockets capable of reaching altitudes of 2500 ft. I brought crap to school to show my class all the time. Luckily, I didn't grow up to be an international terrorist - I became an engineer. We are in deep trouble when our education system treats the kids that should be leading us to the next technology leap forward as criminals.
Re:Retarded "Educators" (Score:4, Insightful)
>And we wonder why US is behind all other nations in educating our young.
The rest of the world knows though.
Re:What if it was really a bomb? (Score:4, Insightful)
Bomb and NotBomb are not equally likely possibilities.
So you propose that NoReaction is inferior because you're screwed if it was a bomb, while Reaction is inferior because its safe either way. I think you're wrong, NoReaction+Bomb is the worst outcome, yes, but its astonishingly unlikely. Getting hit by lightning in your office likely. OTOH, Reaction+NotBomb is still somewhat harmful to you (if nothing else the kids family and their friends think you are a monster) and NotBomb is very very likely.
On average having a the more tempered reaction is the best outcome. Sadly, people are stupid.
Re:What if it was really a bomb? (Score:5, Insightful)