SETI@Home Install Leads To School Tech Supervisor's Resignation 621
An anonymous reader writes "Apparently the most prolific of users in the SETI@Home community has resigned his job as a school technology supervisor after it was revealed he had the software installed on some 5000 school machines. The school claims to have lost $1 million in upkeep on the affected machines."
Commendable... (Score:2)
Well, no. Those weren't his machines. Had he been fired for running it on his own PC it would be different.
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Insightful)
Look, kids, it's a 1-million-dollar civics lesson. "Screw up in county-level government, and we'll sic the cops on you and paint you up as a UFO-worshipping freak or something." Uh-huh. And they wonder why the school systems of the nation can't hire anyone competent.
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree, filing charges was way out of line. His only real mistake was not asking permission, and getting that permission in writing.
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Informative)
Well, that, and lying about removing the software when the problems caused by it came to light and he was ordered by previous administrators to remove it.
...and downloading pornography using school computers.
...and, on top of all that, generally not doing the job he was hired to do.
At least, that's what he is being accused of, according to this more complete article on the story [eastvalleytribune.com].
SETI@Home is not the only issue here.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, but it was *alien* pornography. I don't think there are any applicable Earth laws..
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd say neither article is any good. TFA is very scarce on details and put too much emphasis on "looking for ET", while yours has some pretty silly claims. The picture of the lack of cable management is rather unremarkable (sure, it could be improved, but it's hardly a huge mess: most of the wiring looks fine, it's just that large bundle to that one switch with lots of extra wire hanging down), and the "firewall" story is bull (SETI@home probably requires a hole out, not in, which already suggests that the
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Informative)
The article says the district hired "five experts" and reports on "one company" that did a district-wide technology audit.
It doesn't say "five companies". It also doesn't identify the problem the five experts were hired to address as being "why the PCs were running slow?" I suspect from the description of the problems (though its not clear which were uncovered when, and which motivated the action) that a variety of intermittent problems with systems and higher than anticipated maintenance and replacement costs, which their in-house tech staff couldn't adequately explain, are what the outside experts were brought in to explain, which goes beyond "why computers are running slow?" to "why are paying so much for tech and still having so many problems?".
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Interesting)
His wife says that in TFA. In the more complete, newspaper-sourced story, the district says that a the problems had come to the previous administrator, who had ordered the software removed, and that the tech supervisor who is now under investigation claimed, at the time, to have removed it as directed. Now, as far as I know there is no public concrete evidence of who is telling the truth here, but its worth noting that the wife could be telling the truth as she knows it and the district could be telling the truth, the only thing required for that to be true is for the tech supervisor to have lied to his wife to make himself look persecuted when the trouble started coming down, and for her to trust him. And how hard is that to believe?
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Insightful)
They were his machines to configure, as a technology supervisor. It's not like he hacked into the machines in the dark of night to set things up on the sly. Sure, his configuration may have been a failure as far as the business needs of the school system were concerned, but when TFA is claiming "there may be charges filed!!"
Actually, I think it falls pretty squarely under most States' ethics laws as a violation. If I set up a Bittorent tracker using government computers, then I'm using bandwidth inappropriately, which violates ethics laws. This guy set up a SETI account in his own name, for whatever joy he gets from being at the top of SETI crunch lists, and used government-paid electricity for his own purposes. Over 5,000 computers with say (conservatively) 200W PSUs, that's not an insignificant amount of electricity/dollars. If my tax dollars went into it, I'd be kinda pissed (mainly because I'd prefer donating cycles to Folding@Home, but that's another story).
A little silly? Perhaps, but judging the degree of his "ethics violation" and the subsequent consequences is the job of a judge or jury. The fact that an "ethics violation" that breaks an ethics law has been committed isn't really debatable.
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Insightful)
Really, I think the people of Arizona would be better off if the school district officials were less interested in making a big showy news article about UFOs and filing criminal charges and dragging the legal system into things (and spending money on lawyers and courts and such) and more interested in just running the system effectively (let the guy go, quietly, and leave it at that). The world is a better place for everyone when we leave the legal system as a last resort. Of course, since these are officials in government service, let's ignore sense and guess which move will do more to further their career - the showy one, or the one that makes sense?
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Insightful)
I doubt most organization's ethics rules would cover this - Particularly since he had the authority to determine how he wanted to configure each machine, and in no way profited from his actions. As for the cost of electricity (I think we can safely write the rest of the claims of "accelerated hardware depreciation" off as complete BS, talkin' about school lab computers, not a datacenter here), although he really should have considered that, I wouldn't call it beyond the realm of possibility that he simply didn't. Keep in mind he started doing this before self-throttling CPUs became popular, meaning it made next to no difference in power consumption whether you kept your CPU idle or pegged at 100%.
If I set up a Bittorent tracker using government computers, then I'm using bandwidth inappropriately, which violates ethics laws.
Although most organizations actually do have rules specifically relating to network use (as opposed to what screensavers you may run, about which I've never seen anything more than "no porn walpaper/screensavers/themes"), in the absence thereof and depending on the terms of internet connection, I would arguably call that less abusive. If you have a flat fee for a fixed bandwidth, and limited your use to legitimate works (ie, no porn or copyright violations) and made sure it never interfered with legitimate traffic, such use costs the organization literally nothing. But... Beside the point.
I will further defend this guy for having school-owned hardware at his house - Schools and local governments rarely have proper procedures in place for EOL'ing older computers. I personally had two from a local college that technically would have counted as "stolen property" if it ever came up, but I had obtained them by as close to kosher means as possible (the guy in charge of their computer labs, the father of a friend, had literally hundreds of decommissioned PCs piled floor to ceiling in a storage area and begged anyone who dropped by to take a few). So if he had a dozen brand new quad-core boxes the district didn't even know they bought, okay, problem; If he had a collection of P4s and 32-bit Athlons in various states of disrepair, I'd have a hard time returning a guilty verdict on that jury.
Personally, the fact that they let him resign makes me wonder about the truth of the issue. Given the facts as stated - Generally abusing the hell out of his authority, outright failing to do his job, and stealing from the school - I find it mind-boggling that they wouldn't have him arrested and fired for cause, never mind the "spend more time with his family" line.
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Insightful)
From the comments in this article [eastvalleytribune.com] (thanks to this post) [slashdot.org] from people who are there, it sounds like a real hatchet job.
Salient points:
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Christ, I want to upmod you.
My wiring looks like this. And for the exact same reasons: No, we can't have the downtime to move any wiring around, no we can't take the time to pull those old cables, we don't have time/money to order cables, use the wrong length cause that's what's on hand, it needs to be in production today/it's unfunded, for cable management you can use all the zip ties and velcro that you can scrounge, and multiply it all by ten years. And now they want to use it as evidence that the guy is incompetent or even criminal? Because he hasn't had the backing to incur costs and downtimes for neatness? Because he lacked the pull to make them build buildings and buy new infrastructure?
And, knowing that he's getting unfairly accused on these counts makes me mistrust the remaining accusations as well.
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Interesting)
If it's anything at all like Queensland state schools when I worked there, some PHB would've seen there were no classes and eyed the IT department... yeah. I was expected to work during school hours only. "You're still here? Go home, we can't pay you." The IT motto when I worked at EQ was "doing everything on nothing". Meanwhile, four hundred million dollars on a new stadium for the state's capital city? No problem.
Seriously? Open text editor, write small shell script, tell group policy to run script on all machines... done. If however the school is running 5,000 machines with no imaging, network booting, group policy or central user storage - which I find bloody unlikely in this day and age - yeah, somebody should definitely be getting fired. Just maybe not the guy in the article.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Informative)
Bullshit! You need a budget and you need authorization. Without both of those, you end up with a rats nest. Same as telephone systems from Ma Bell. Same as anywhere else.
OMG BLOCK PORT 80 (http) AND PORT 443 (https/ssl) NOW!
It wasn't until right before the school board elections that the board member pushed this. The hardware problems with the white boards have been covered elsewhere on slashdot - they're not unique to this school. Teachers complained about being given the hardware and no training beyond "Here's the install cd. Good luck."
The $2 million is for updating hardware and a new secure building - infrastructure improvements - NOT to "fix his unethical and incompetant (sic) behavior"
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Insightful)
Really...$100k to remove seti from 5000 machines? ...because I *REALLY* want that job. It's an hour of scripting and a few days (at most) to test. Push it out over a weekend, run an inventory...follow up on the few failures.
To say Seti "fucked up the computers" is pure BS. It may have caused problems with their operation but it's a simple, essentially self-contained, program. Remove it and you're back to where you started...no re-image needed.
As for the rest of the cabling "problems" I suggest you walk a mile in a tech's shoes. Who's to say the guy's supposed to work during the 3 months that school is closed too? Get off your high horse.
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Informative)
I figure removing SETI@home alone will cost at least $50,000
Oh please. The worst-case scenario is that someone writes a script that calls msiexec to uninstall the software, and either makes it a startup script for all PCs using group policy, or they use psexec to call it on all systems by name. If someone thinks they have to pay $50,000 for that I'll give them a great deal and do it for $10k, but the actual cost should be 1-2 days' wages for one person.
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps you need to get some reading comprehension skills.
Nope - they estimate that for fixing the problems with the network, etc., that have accumulated over a decade of lack of funds, etc. This includes things like a secure building for the servers. Certainly not his fault.
The "downloading porn" is an unproven allegation. If we were to fire every admin who's ever downloaded something that a prude would consider "porn" (like accidentally clicking on a goatguy or tubgirl link), there'd be no admins left.
$10 to $30 per computer to click the "uninstall" button? I don't think so, Clyde.
Those whiteboards have been reported elsewhere to have deployment problems - it has nothing to do with seti@home, and yu'd have known that if you had a clue. It also certainly didn't "immediately impart their system" if it's been running for almost a decade.
As for the rest - "taking computer equipment home" is often done with obsolete systems or "parts boxes", the "increased network usage" is 150 tb over 10 years, which sounds like a lot, but is really 41 gigs a day or less than 10 meg per box a day - incidental traffic (think 10-20 slashdot pages - heck, I've done 400 gigs in one month on a single box at home without breaking a sweat) - that wouldn't interfere with normal network usage in a system capable of supporting 5,000 computers. As for the "punching holes in the firewall" - you might want to read this [boinc-wiki.info] and this [unitedboinc.com] - do you have a problem with ports 80 (http) and 443 (https/ssl) being "open"?
Riiight - having ports open so that users can surf the web is a terrible thing - quick - block ports 80 and 443 on your machine! It's a security risk!
Don't be a tool, mkay?
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Insightful)
You should probably re-read the article too. Some of the money apparently includes a new building. Unless the tech supervisor was moonlightning as a demolitions expert, I doubt he's responsible for that. And some of the comments in the article by the locals are very... interesting... as well.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I work at schools myself and have lots of old school gear at home, and scattered all around the place. I often take stuff home to work on, and such is common practice for my coleagues.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That remains in doubt. The tech supervisor at issue probably had that authority assuming no specific instruction was received from above, but the more detailed news articles on the case relate that the district position is that this came to the attention of a prior administrator, who provided specific direction to remove the software, following which the tec
THE DAMAGES ARE BUNK (Score:3, Insightful)
Does ANYBODY ever fairly calculate damages? Sometimes one has to wonder how they calculate these numbers they pull out...
SETI costs will not be as high as the legal burden on the system; sure the FA was missing some of the details but having seen some college IT workers who largely come from the student population and few stick around-- it doesn't surprise me they'd have some issues. Some of the top guys are just the kids who didn't leave.
As far as porn on a staff computer-- don't get me started. I'd say th
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It isn't that he was using more, or even less, electricity by running SETI@Home. The fact that he was using government electricity for non-governmental purposes is the problem. It is no different than hooking up a hose to a county fire hydrant to fill your personal swimming pool. You benefit, they pay.
SETI@Home as a background process probably does not significantly slow down the machine for the typical user. They never notice the lost cycles. So it isn't like you really slowed down the responsiveness
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Really?
SETI@HOME is doing intense math calculations using as much CPU as it can. Starry Screen Server is not.
Suppose someone left that hydrant running?
Suppose the person who is in charge of the fire hydrants decided to use one to fill his own pool
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know if you know this or not, but for more than 10 years now when a computer isn't doing anything, it generally goes to sleep. In sleep mode, even the most ancient, piss-poor power management cuts the power consumption of the PC by a large fraction.
I don't know if you know this either, but generally applications like SETI@home are designed to monitor your computer usage, and if you aren't doing anything with it cranks up the CPU share to 60-70%.
I'm not sure if you know this too, but generally a computer that is actively sending data across a network cannot go into sleep mode, nor can a computer that is consuming large amounts of processor time (30%+ definitely).
If you want proof, try starting a download and then putting your computer to sleep. It will do one of two things: It will either kill the connection and go to sleep, or it will simply not go to sleep. You can't do both, it is not possible, and in either case the computer won't go into sleep mode automatically.
In other words, Starry Night and My Pictures stop running after 10 minutes, cutting their power usage to nill, while SETI@home continues crunching away, burning up 100-150w (I doubt they used much more than that though) as opposed to 10-20w. Some quick arithmatic shows that the Starry Night PC is using about 240-480wh per day, while the SETI@home is using roughly 2400-3600wh per day. The SETI@home PC would use about an order of magnitude more power per day than your standard screen-saver laden PC. Multiply these rough figures out by 5,000, and the SETI@home is costing the school district 18mwh per day more electricity usage than a standard PC with a standard sleep mode.
Now that's worst case scenario, it's probably costing more like 10mwh per day more energy consumption, because they are using these computers for school. Since the average cost per-kwh is about 10 cents (it varies a lot by region, it can be as low as 5 and as high as 25), we can estimate that this guy was costing the school district between $1000 and $1800 per day with his SETI nonsense. If he ran it for several years (I did not RTFA, so I don't know how long he ran it) he could have cost the school district several million dollars.
If that's the case, not only should he lose his job, he should probably face criminal charges for stealing government resources.
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Informative)
That screen saver will also allow the computer to go to sleep mode after a few minutes, slashing the power consumption. SETI@Home cannot allow this, or it would defeat the entire purpose of the program (which is to crunch numbers during idle time).
When a computer is in sleep mode, it is essentially off. The only power flowing through it is the power that keeps the data in RAM, and the power that allows the BIOS power management to monitor for that little mouse wiggle and bring everything back up. The CPU is off, the hard drive is off, virtually all of the motherboard is off, and the monitor is off.
To compare that to a program crunching numbers (which is a CPU intensive task) is silly, the number crunching app needs the CPU at almost full throttle, obviously the motherboard powered up, the NIC powered up and actively sending and recieving data. Depending on how well it was written, they may get away with little or no hard drive usage, but that's iffy.
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Informative)
Some of those computers date back to 2000 - sleep mode?
Also, as comments in this article point out, the techs were forbidden from rolling out a script that would have turned the computers off at night, as it was against school policy.
Read the comments - some are from people who worked there, some from people who live there. It looks more like the guy was fired because someone - Superintendent Denise Birdwell - wanted to polish her image.
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Interesting)
... and ...
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Interesting)
No, but I think that the school district refusing for the last 3 years to allow their employees to institute a policy of turning most machines off automatically between 6pm and 6am is a big part of the problem. If they had allowed this, your question would have been mooted.
This is not about energy consumption - this is about a school board member who wanted to polish her image at election time.
Re:Commendable... (Score:4, Informative)
The school computer may be "on" all day, but you can bet your ass any half way competant IT manager is going to have those computers sleep after 10 minutes or less of inactivity. In sleep mode, most of the PC is off, with primarily just the BIOS and RAM recieving power. It sips, as opposed to guzzles power like even an idle desktop does. If he had set it up to hibernate during off-school hours, they would have used no power at all for 16 hours a day. That's a massive difference.
Besides that, even a complex screensaver (like thos nifty aquarium screen savers) uses almost no resources and adds very little to the power consumption of an idle PC, but SETI@home is a number crunching app, and number crunching is extremely CPU intensive.
Why the hell do you think they need to do this distributed number crunching and data sifting in the first place? It's because they cannot afford the super-computer it would require to get the work done in a reasonable amount of time.
It's not cheap to run, SETI@home will tell you that your power consumption will definitely go up, but for an individual user it ends up costing $20-30 per year for something they care about. In the case of this guy, he was costing the school district upwards of $300,000+ every year, and if he was doing this for several years the total cost could easily be in the millions of dollars.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
From what I read it sounded like he had set very tight screen-saver policies to maximize his SETI@home time. It was so bad that teachers using a whiteboard application in class would turn around for a couple minutes to explain something, and SETI@home would kick in and hose the whiteboard app. The only way to get the whiteboard back at that point was a reboot - likely a buggy app itself be the teachers should be able to do their jobs. The point of a school is not to "win" on SETI@home, but to teach kids
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Funny)
One day I came to work, and my boss was breathless (I wished physically, not just literally), he couldn't figure out why all these boxes were all running at 100% CPU. After several hours (he was SOOO slow) he figured out it was SETI. He tried in vain to prove it was me, I wasn't going to admit it, I knew that between him and HR they would hang me, over at best the theft of some company power (which is stupid because every linux admin had super shiny screensavers that their computers couldn't quite handle, and they had to be running at 100% util for 16+ hours each day once they went home). It's been a while since I've ran SETI, but what I recall is he could have figured out it was me if he knew to check the ID it was uploading the results under, then went to SETI's site and check the ID, which would have at least pointed him to the name Tynin, which since my personal email address uses tynin in it, it should have been the nail in my coffin. Luckly, he was incompetent, and missed that detail, and I sail past what would have been one of the more silly disasters of my life.
If you are reading this Ed, please know your staff will celebrate the day you die, pizza and beer in the hallways!
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Funny)
Luckly, he was incompetent, and missed that detail, and I sail past what would have been one of the more silly disasters of my life. If you are reading this Ed, please know your staff will celebrate the day you die, pizza and beer in the hallways!
Why you dirty son of a %$#& Ty, you'll pay for this! I knew it was you! No more pizza and beer for anyone or you're all fired!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And they wonder why the school systems of the nation can't hire anyone competent.
I'd like to add that a competent sysadmin would do his best to keep costs to a bare minimum, and that includes things like buying the lowest-power CPUs that can get the job done, sticking to the job's specifications for software, cycling computers into powersave when idle, and -- in a school environment -- switching the damn things off at night, when very few people have legitimate reasons to use them.
Treating your work computers as your personal playground to install random stuff on to amuse yourself is
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Buying the lowest-power CPUs?! Are you absolutely sure about that? This seems like REALLY bad advice. Needs always rise (ALWAYS) to what "gets the job done" today won't tomorrow. This advice is a crock of ****, always was. You want to be efficient? Buy systems from the middle, not the slowest, and not the fastest. The middle is usually the right choice. The slow ones will have short lives (and replacing machines is expensive - not just in machine costs) the fastest machines cost a fortune (and there is always diminishing returns at the top end).
Now like all rules, it's there to be broken. If you don't expect the system to have a long life - consider cheaper (typical examples are harsh environments). If replacing the system is really expensive (because downtime is a problem, expensive specialists are required whatever) then consider something more expensive.
But always buying the cheapest is just bad advice.
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Interesting)
RTFA It says in the article that "the software was authorized by a previous administration". He did ask (supposedly) and was allowed.
By running all of the school machines at 100% load the school used more power and network then they would have otherwise and so this situation did "cost" them. The fact that he was given approval will probably shield him from any legal action regardless of the 'change of administration'. Where they got the $1M number I'm guessing is straight out of their posteriors but who knows over 10 years what the real delta probably was.. they are just laying the groundwork for a potential lawsuit, restitution or just a cooler news headline.
My favorite part of the article is the fact his wife sounds like she thought he was *directly spending all of his time at work searching for aliens. He should probably tell his wife how his fleet of software toys work. Gave me a good chuckle which is always worth the article read.
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, his contract never said he wasn't able to run these types of background calculation programs. Even superintendent Denise Birdwell admitted, "We support educational research and certainly would have supported cancer research." So the issue is not the installation of the program, which would have been okay if the technician had installed Cancer@Home instead.
Furthermore Birdwell said the massive software cost the district more than $1 million in added utility fees and computer replacement parts. How did he arrive at this 1 million dollar figure? Can he produce actual calculations derived from collected data, or did he just pull the number from his nether region?
I would not resign.
I'd tell them, "Sorry I'll uninstall everything," and if they chose to fire me then I'd drag Mr. Birdwell into court to provide proof before a judge that I actually cost the school 1 million in damages. If they can't then it would be unjustified dismissal, and in violation of multiple employee-protection laws that exist when you work for a state government.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
OK, assuming the district had a policy in place to shutdown unneeded systems at night, and assuming he instead configured SETI to run all night, they yes, there would have been a significant power draw. Or, if he had SETI set to run at 100% and prevent idle modes, perhaps (assuming all the PCs supported a low power state). If it doesn't support sleep states (most computers in 2003 didn't, or were not configured for it if they did) then on is on and off/sleep is off, than that's about the only differences.
Who wants that? (Score:3, Funny)
So the issue is not the installation of the program, which would have been okay if the technician had installed Cancer@Home instead.
Anybody wants Cancer@home?
Re:Commendable... (Score:5, Interesting)
According to the more complete article [eastvalleytribune.com] on the story, "Former administrators, including former superintendent Joyce Lutrey, knew about the software and told Niesluchowski to remove it" and "[h]e assured them he had removed it". So, I'm guessing, that's why "I'm sorry and I'll remove it now" wouldn't have been an adequate response, even if SETI@Home was the only problem issue, and there wasn't the porn issue, and the issue of the school equipment at his house apparently being used in his home-based business.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Apparently, he told them that the first time he was caught. And then didn't bother to actually uninstall anything.
Stealing PCs and downloading porn aren't (Score:3)
I would not resign.
I'd tell them, "Sorry I'll uninstall everything," and if they chose to fire me then I'd drag Mr. Birdwell into court to provide proof before a judge that I actually cost the school 1 million in damages. If they can't then it would be unjustified dismissal, and in violation of multiple employee-protection laws that exist when you work for a state government.
If he also took home 18 computers for his own personal use and was downloading porn as claimed, I don't think that'd stand up in court
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Did I just get modded troll for quoting the article?
I broke the sacred /. commandment of not reading TFA!
What was I thinking?
Fire the guy, maybe, but... (Score:2)
But the "criminal charges" alluded to by the article would be ridiculous.
Oops (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Oops (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Oops (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oops (Score:4, Interesting)
According to my math after using a Kill-A-Watt, running Folding@Home on my PS3 would cost me roughly $10/month in energy costs.
distributed.net key cracker - was Re:Oops (Score:5, Insightful)
At work we have a large number of dual CPU/eight-core (16 with HT) machines with 24, 32 or 36GB running java VMs, and we notice there's a very big hit on performance if we try and run more than a few VMs on a machine, almost certainly due to loss of cache efficiency; this performance loss doesn't particularly show up in simply looking for CPU cycles used by the OS!
I know why (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll bet that you were running it on some of the older P4 machines with HyperThreading. If you have HT turned on, idle processing will NEVER work right under Windows, and it will cause the types of slowdowns you saw. (I experienced the exact same thing with Folding@home when I installed it on a P4 w/ HT.)
Here's why: Hyperthreading uses a single core, but presents itself to the OS as multiple processors. If you run power-hungry software that uses 100% of the CPU time, it actually shows up to Windows as using 50% time on two processors. Add in something that runs in idle mode (like the @home programs), and they see 50% unused processor time - so they go ahead and fill up that other 50% - which puts the processor's ACTUAL usage to 200% - causing everything to run at half speed.
Yes, this is an over-simplified and not-exactly-right explanation, but it's close enough to the observed reality to suffice.
In any case, turn off hyperthreading and run it again, and you'll have no, or very little, slowdown.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes I am, and my citation is personal experience AND testable results which can be quickly verified on your computer.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/redelm/ [sbcglobal.net]
Run this. Right now. One for EACH core of your CPU. Idle process/nice 19. Do it on Linux (livecd works) and Windows.
Try using Firefox when you completely set it up. Please report the results.
5,000 machines, US$1M (Score:2)
Other than that, I don't see where S@H costs any more on a system than the resource hog called "Windows Vista".
Re: (Score:2)
That works out to about $200 per machine. In what, electricity from no CPU idle?
Birdwell said the massive software slowed down educational programs in every classroom and cost the district more than $1 million in added utility fees and computer replacement parts.
Re:5,000 machines, US$1M (Score:5, Informative)
Re:But weren't they on anyway? (Score:5, Informative)
Is it really likely that the computers weren't on anyway? If not, then surely someone would have noticed the fact that the computers were running all night for no reason sometime in the past 10 years...
Plug your computer into the wall through a power meter and you'll notice the difference between idle and heavy CPU use being easily over the 40 W the GP used.
Re:5,000 machines, US$1M (Score:4, Informative)
Re:5,000 machines, US$1M (Score:5, Informative)
It actually does use more power running the CPU full throttle vs idle. The rule of thumb I learned was a buck a watt per year. By which $200 sounds nuts. School PCs do not have 200W worth of CPU in them.
But..oh, over 10 years. That's $20/year/system. Very plausible.
This guy learned the following lesson the hard way: Systems you manage are not yours. They are your employers. The potentially mitigating factor here from TFA, is that he claims he had permission. If so, whoever granted permission should be fired. $1m is real money, especially if you're a school district.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's say (pulling number out of ass) being busy vs idle uses an additional 25 Watts. They're saying it happened over 9 years. 25*24*365*9/1000 = 1971 KiloWatt Hours per machine. At $0.10 per KWH, that's a match. So then we fight over whether it's really a 25 Watt difference, really happened for 9 years, what the school actually pays per KWH, etc.
But how is it a crime? (Score:2)
Re:But how is it a crime? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:But how is it a crime? (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the documents, district officials said they found Niesluchowski had abused his authority in purchasing and oversight of district technology and equipment, downloaded pornography, and added to every district computer a University of California-Berkeley program that searches high-frequency radio signals for signs of intelligent life in outer space.
Much better article. Apparently the firing/resignation wasn't really about SETI, that was just icing on the cake. Of course, leave it to the media to run away with the "crazy guy looking for aliens" angle.
Re:But how is it a crime? (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, just freaking wow...
I am wondering how long before I see the headline "Man arrested for using linux", just to read on and find out that he beat his wife to death using a Ubuntu Laptop.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a better source: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/30/20091130searchforaliens1202.html [azcentral.com]
Be sure to read the comments on that article (and other similar articles) as well. It is obvious that this is all political. They guy's "crime" was neither that he ran SETI, nor that he took computers home for repair. It's that he occupied a position that Birdwell wanted to fill with one of her family members.
He also had equipment from the school at his home (Score:4, Informative)
He probably shouldn't simply be installing software that isn't essential to his work function on machines that he does not own.
I also heard on NPR that they found lots of equipment that belonged to the school at his residence. The criminal charges probably stem from that and not just for installing SETI@Home (haven't read the TFA so just speculating).
Re:He also had equipment from the school at his ho (Score:4, Informative)
The other article linked here really should be in the story: Higley firing tied to alien-search software [azcentral.com]. This one makes it pretty clear that the guy was fired because he's a bad employee and a lousy manager, not because he wants to find aliens.
Quite frankly, it's a little annoying that the OP's story only mentions "ET". That's irresponsible reporting, and it's why newspapers are folding all over the country; when your reporters can't even write a proper, coherent, unbiased story, people go elsewhere for their news.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I also heard on NPR that they found lots of equipment that belonged to the school at his residence.
This is quite common practice in lots of schools. Maybe the guy wanted to investigate problems with the computer or install new needed software in the comfort of his home?
Of course, the bitch that wants to fire him in order to put her own crony into his position isn't going to tell that to the media...
And... (Score:2)
Ten years to find it on 5,000 computers? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
According to the district, problems with the software were noted before, which is why he was directed by a previous administrator to remove it. Also, the over $1 million (more specifically, $1.2 to $1.6 million) cost estimate is not the cost of electricity, its the cost to correct the various problems the district claims stem from the various misconduct and neglect of duties he is accused of. TFA
Guys, focus on what's important (Score:5, Funny)
A million $ (Score:2)
AUP? (Score:5, Insightful)
However, this case seems to be with a difference of opinion. Ftfa: '"We support educational research and certainly would have supported cancer research," said Higley superintendent Denise Birdwell. "However, as an educational institution we do not support the search for E.T."'
This is why the Tenure system was instituted. To prevent dismissals due to political or idealogical reasons. To say he would allow protein folding but not seti is asinine. When I decided between the two, I figured that finding ET would have a greater impact on society that a cure for cancer. Who knows, maybe ET will be able to help us cure diseases while curing diseases will not help us find ET.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
He was likely in charge of writing the AUP.
Re:AUP? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is why the Tenure system was instituted. To prevent dismissals due to political or idealogical reasons.
I'd say it's more along the lines of preventing dismissals for reasons of gross incompetence.
Re:AUP? (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing that has always bugged me about SETI is that after decades of scientifically-rigorous research, nothing has been found yet to even hint at the existence of extraterrestrial life as we define it. If we never find E.T., it may be because our definition of "life" is too narrow, or because there's really nothing else out there other than stars, black holes, and other mundane phenomena. It doesn't matter. Putting your own personal time and resources into SETI is like playing an intergalactic lottery: the payoff is mind-bogglingly huge, but the chance is winning is mind-bogglingly small. (I could expound upon the lottery analogy to further discuss why SETI is so attractive from a psychological perspective, but I think you get the point.)
If SETI@Home were the only thing out there that I could put my unused cycles towards processing, I might go for it. But the fact is that there are plenty of other distributed computing projects that are generating data which is useful to scientists (and by extension, everyone) right now.
They're just not quite as glamorous as finding E.T.
He was fired for stealing and porn (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/147847 [eastvalleytribune.com]
Higley superintendent Denise Birdwell... (Score:4, Funny)
Higley superintendent Denise Birdwell does not in fact welcome our new extra terrestrial overlords.
baaaaloney (Score:5, Insightful)
Birdwell said the massive software slowed down educational programs in every classroom and cost the district more than $1 million in added utility fees and computer replacement parts.
Well, actually -- they claimed $1.2--1.6 million.
The software is designed to run at the lowest priority, idle. It takes up 16-50MB of RAM while running. Given that most school labs only run web browsers, office applications, and low-quality educational games, I doubt the systems were running out of memory. Antivirus apps take up a lot more than that, as to most web browsers. So on the charge of "slowing down education programs in every classroom" -- no.
Regarding computer replacement parts -- not really. Those machines are going to sit there no matter what, and they will fail at the same rates regardless of what software is running on them. OTOH, if they were running 24/7 and that was being done only so SETI@Home could run, then yes -- replacement costs of fans and harddrives would have gone up.
Regarding utility costs -- they might have a point on this one.
Bandwidth: Each SETI@Home work unit is about 0.25MB in size, padded to about 0.30MB with overhead they add to it. There aren't any stats I could find readily available online for how much network overhead is added to this, but let's say 0.35MB of bandwidth is used. Unfortunately, there's no way for us to know how much processor power is available -- so I'm going to take an estimated guess and say about 5 hours per work unit. That seems to be in the ballpark from what I've read online. So I'm going to round up to an even 2MB per computer, per day. He installed the software onto about 5,000 computers. That works out then to 9.7GB per day. Or about 294.2GB per month (remember, 4.33- weeks in an average month). That might add up to, I don't know, a few hundred extra a month if they had a leased line and a poor contract. But it's paltry in comparison to the electricity costs.
How much power does the average computer take? Answer [techreviewer.com]. I'm going to say 80watts is pretty close. Again, just working with averages here and trying to get a ballpark figure. To convert this to a usable cost figure, we need to use these formulas: Watts=Amps*Volts Cost per hour= (Watts/1000)*(cents). Cents being the per kWh cost. This guy did this in Arizona, and conveniently enough, we know what the average kWh cost in that state [doe.gov] is: It's 10.4 right now. So, each computer, per day, uses 1.92 kWh of juice, if it runs 24/7. If they were programmed to go to standby during that time and didn't -- we'll say 16 hours of that day, or 1.27kWh, went to SETI@Home beyond what those computers would have spent otherwise. This doesn't take into consideration holidays, weekends, or anything else... Someone else could probably create a much better estimate than this without too much work, but I'm in a hurry and this is slashdot. 5,000 computers use 6,350kWh of extra juice per day doing Seti@Home, when they could have been powered off. That means $660.40 per day was being spent keeping these computers powered up. That comes to just over $20 grand a month in electricity costs.
So, yeah... over the course of about four years, the costs could hit over a million dollars.
Re:baaaaloney (Score:5, Insightful)
SETI (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't intend to troll but to get a response.
Seriously, I don't believe in aliens beyond movies, and I don't understand the interest about this program. I'd like to know why would someone install this, can some users tell me about it?
(But please no conspiracies)
Re:SETI (Score:4, Funny)
Seriously, I don't believe in God beyond the movies, and I don't understand the interest about religion. I'd like to know why would someone go to church, can some god-people tell me about it?
(But please no conspiracies)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It has nothing to do with conspiracies and everything to do with science (I support SETI, but I don't believe that aliens have visited Earth or anything. I don't even believe aliens exist, I just believe they might exist).
There isn't any reason there couldn't be aliens out there, and if there are, one of the best ways we know of to find evidence of them is to look for their radio signals (either for their own use, or that they intentionally broadcast in order to be found). SETI ran for many years from Areci
Sounds like over-reaction to me (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know all the details of this but a decade or so ago I was a (volunteer) administrator of the IT system at our local rural school district. Sometimes I'd take computers home to install software so I could play with the kids while the software installed instead of sitting on my ass (for free) at the (empty) school and do it. Besides, they locked the schools up and wouldn't give me a key.
I discovered that the kids could find porn so used a proxy and some regexp filters to try to keep porn at bay. But it turned out that the kids could find porn faster than I could block it so I started grepping the logs for the seven bad words you can't say on television and then adding those sites. Then I started making headway. The HS math teacher was involved in this too. We'd see a suspicious site in the log, check the site for content and if it was porn we'd block it using a regexp expression. Simple and cheap.
But that took time... so I'd add them at home remotely (everything, including the routers, was on Linux boxes that I built and installed) but the teacher who was helping was observed after working hours going through thi process. Unfortunately the person watching thought the teacher was surfing porn (instead of checking sites for content) and turned him in. Quite the brouhaha. One parent was incensed that we used the students to "find porn". Good grief!!!
That incident very nearly cost the teacher his job but I attended the school board meeting that addressed the issue and explained what we were doing and why (no money in the budget for servers, software, etc.). The teacher kept his job and we got to buy some blocking software to work with the proxy and I didn't have to spend an hour every night checking logs. One problem solved.
The administrator in this particular case probably faced some of the same issues as I did. So they found school property at his house (they would have at mine too) and are investigating him for downloading porn (they would have probably done the same to me). I think getting the cops after him was overkill.
$1M in expenses for running SETI is ridiculous. However according to the newspaper report from his home town he was instructed by a former school district administrator to remove the software and did not. Of course, that admin might just be trying to cover his own ass. But at least someone knew SETI was on those boxes prior to the new Superintendent taking office.
Flamebait (Score:4, Funny)
Has to be said
When will they start firing administrators for installing Windows!?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:$1 Million... Really? (Score:4, Interesting)
it ran as a screen saver
However it might have ran, it certainly didn't 'save screens.' Back in the day I saw many many CRTs with their phosphors permanently 'burned' by the SETI@Home display:
http://blog.sherweb.com/wp-content/uploads/seti_home_screen_l.gif [sherweb.com]
I used to advise people running SETI@Home to turn off their CRTs.
Re:$1 Million... Really? (Score:5, Funny)
PHB: I've got a great idea, why don't we run all our programs as screen savers?
Dilbert: How will we type? As soon as someone hits a key the application will close and we'll be back at the desktop consuming electricity again.
PHB: Couldn't we login remotely? We could create a terminal application that ran as a screen saver!
Dilbert: Again, how will we type?
PHB: We could type really slowly.
Wally: I already do, somedays I don't type anything at all!
PHB: See Dilbert, you need to be more like Wally!
Re:$1 Million... Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, pinning equipment failures on SETI is a stretch. But $1000000 for power consumption is not so far off the mark. SETI estimates $5/month/computer. If he's been doing it for 9 years, 12 months a year, at that rate it would require 1851 computers to reach $1M. IIRC, this guy was in charge of about 5000 computers. It adds up.
Re:$1 Million... Really? (Score:5, Funny)
...after it was revealed he had the software installed on some 5000 school machines.
IIRC, this guy was in charge of about 5000 computers.
Your memory is astounding.
Re:$5/machine? Depends on the machine... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:$5/machine? Depends on the machine... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Would cancer research been a better use? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The aliens probably wouldn't help with a cancer cure. Consider what would happen if another substantial cause of death were eliminated. Lifespans would be extended beyond our unusually long lives now. The world's population is already too high, and growing beyond the unsustainable level. While it's nice to think we can get rid of something that causes pain and death, pain and death are part of life. If you reduce the death rate, you'll have to reduce the reproduction rate.
That's why I run NUKES@HOME (Score:5, Funny)
The world's population is already too high, and growing beyond the unsustainable level. While it's nice to think we can get rid of something that causes pain and death, pain and death are part of life. If you reduce the death rate, you'll have to reduce the reproduction rate.
My school district's network of 8000 computers is running NUKES@HOME, helping our government figure out ways to build better nuclear weapons to save the planet for the right kind of humanity.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Reporters (in my personal tech experience which includes a stint at a metro newspaper) are one of the groups that understand Tech the least. When coupled with the self-importance and arrogance that is present in most journalists it means they can't even be bothered to go down the hall and ask the publication's own techs if their story makes any sense. So you have this idiotic type of hand-waiving reporting. Watch CNN when there is a tech-related security story. Jeanne Meserve will come on and spout psud
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
How did they quantify the $1 million dollar amount?
They got it from the guys that calculate the "street value" of marijuana busts.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)