However I don't see a reason why people shouldn't take the H1N1 vaccine. Ok the guy is making money from this... However Vaccines have a rather poor profit returns (expensive to make and sold with low margins) It would seem like if he was really corrupt he would do something with higher margins. However for someone who is interested in healthcare it wouldn't be surprising that he had investments in healthcare. Just like I am sure many of you have investments in Tech Companies...
Ok the guy is making money from this... However Vaccines have a rather poor profit returns (expensive to make and sold with low margins) It would seem like if he was really corrupt he would do something with higher margins.
It's not hard to understand. If he did something "really corrupt" he would be fined or go to jail. If he does something marginally corrupt then morons will go around defending him saying he "isn't that corrupt" and then he'll get away with it. It's all about risk to reward ratios. Sure he won't make significant money but there is nearly no risk.
In Britain, apparently a large number of doctors and nurses are refusing to take the H1N1 vaccine. I don't understand the arguments for and against, but if the people who know about these things don't want it, why should I take it?
A survey of GPs published on Healthcare Republic, the website of GP magazine, found that up to 60% of GPs may decline vaccination. Although the numbers who responded were small - 216 GPs
That's a laughably tiny sample. Hell, for all we know, it's self-selected, which would almost certainly introduce bias. But then they says this:
they are in line with a much bigger survey of nurses published a week ago by Nursing Times, which found that a third of 1,500 nurses would refuse vaccination.
How the fuck is 60% "in line" with 30%?? But then you look closer, and you actually see this:
Among the GPs who responded to the survey published by Healthcare Republic, 29% said they would not choose to have the vaccine and 29% said they were unsure whether or not they would.
Ohhh... so now it's actually 30% (of 219 people) who said they wouldn't, and 30% who weren't sure. Great headline, assholes.
Yeah, sorry bub, you're gonna have to do better than that.
Considering they've already had over 1,000 people die [msn.com] of Swine Flu so far this year in the US alone, why would anyone really need to question this? There is no natural immunity to N1H1. It also affects young adults more than any other group (and need I say a very mobile crowd), with a much higher chance of spreading the disease in colleges, schools, and just in general.
And not even as often as claimed, either. Usually the fear-inducing headline is "SWINE FLU KILLS A CHILD" and then you find out they were immunocompromised and/or actually died of pneumonia or some other complication. Yes, the secondary illness was likely caused by the body already being weakened by the H1N1, but it could have just as easily happened with regular flu, bronchitis, any number of things that affect the respiratory system. And yes, it is tragic when anyone dies this way, but it doesn't justify
I've read suggestions to make people (kids in particular) get vaccinations before but frankly I have never been comfortable with the concept. When you start telling people that they must put something foreign into their bodies at what point exactly does it stop?
Plus what happens if this vaccine turns out to have nasty side effects? Is the state who mandated it responsible or will they just wash their hands and say - "You had a choice!" That's what they tried to do after all the medication they made soliders take in the first gulf war turned out to have serious long term side effects.
Going into crazy paranoia zone here now, but how long until RFID chips (which have already been linked to cancer) will be mandatory for government employees for "security reasons?"
And everyone knows that a hospital worker getting sick is so much more important than the patient, especially those people who may have a weaken immune system because they are already sick.
Currently they are recommending children with underlaying medical issues get vaccinated first (asthma, MD) and women in their third trimester. Both because they are those who are dying at the highest rates. All the reputable medical sites/doctors say the H1N1 vaccine will have the same risks as normal flu vaccine- as they are both made exactly the same way. There is nothing about this strain of virus that makes the vaccine more dangerous. They are even offering versions without the normal preservative (whic
Many naturally wonder how real the threat is considering how many months we've been told the sky is falling.
Umm, dude, we haven't even entered the northern hemisphere flu season, yet, and we've already hit the average number of pediatric flu deaths for a normal year. Is the sky falling? No (you can blame the media, as always for perpetuating that idea). But there most definitely is cause for concern.
Most reports are that swine flu has been mild compared to the typical in most individuals. This includes reports that some exposed have never developed any symptom. The reported numbers for swine flu rely on the presumption of swine flu rather than the regular seasonal flu, not actual tests. That is, died so must have been swine flu.
What evidence there is suggests that children and the elderly should have priority for vaccination (greater potential benefit for the same risk). Healthy adults should be at the end of the list.
Meanwhile, none of the reports of flu death statistics are based on an actual count. They are all extrapolations and estimates based on 'facts' that are supported mostly by the statistics they support.
A big hint of that was a report that the 5000 worldwide deaths is an estimate because various authorities have stopped counting. Hrmm, only 5000 and it's too many to count or only 5000 so it's not significant enough to count?
And of course, the last time the swine flu was going to kill us all, the vaccine turned out to have serious side effects (for reasons never determined) and the swine flue never went beyond a single military base.
Nevertheless, I was mostly pointing out that being made by the same process doesn't mean the risk is exactly the same and that in any event, double the vaccinations means double the risks. I didn't actually comment on the risk/benefit analysis at all.
Most reports are that swine flu has been mild compared to the typical in most individuals. This includes reports that some exposed have never developed any symptom. The reported numbers for swine flu rely on the presumption of swine flu rather than the regular seasonal flu, not actual tests. That is, died so must have been swine flu.
What evidence there is suggests that children and the elderly should have priority for vaccination (greater potential benefit for the same risk). Healthy adults should be at the
Considering that all the scary stories (anecdotes) you cite are a minority of cases, it's entirely consistent with my report that most cases are mild.
The reports I have seen indicate "suspected" swine flu, etc, never "confirmed by PCR" swine flu. Not surprising since the CDC has asked that tests NOT [cbsnews.com]be done. A quote from that article:
With most cases diagnosed solely on symptoms and risk factors, the H1N1 flu epidemic may seem worse than it is.
I will happily forgo my shot so someone in the high risk group can have it.
About the CDC stats, a fair portion are self fulfilling. Hospital visits for flue-like symptoms. Not a
Alright, but if you get mumps orchitis because you refused to get the MMR vaccine, then we as a society shouldn't be obligated to treat your malady. Is that fair?
Going into crazy paranoia zone here now, but how long until RFID chips (which have already been linked to cancer) will be mandatory for government employees for "security reasons?"
I only found one study. That study was in Sept 2007, no news stories since then. Until it's confirmed by an independent study, I don't know if it's legitimate to say there is a link. Besides, RFID works using non-ionizing radiation (i.e. doesn't break molecules or DNA), not sure how there can be cancer, at least with the RF part.
Firstly, you have a say, ALWAYS. Governments aren't there to control the people (while you may let them, it's not the case), short of said governments tearing up constitutions and so forth you can always fight back.
Secondly, there are KNOWN side effects with this vaccine, they are clearly stated prior to vaccination (at least here in Australia) as required by law - just the same as all vaccines.
I really don't get where these paranoid delusions suggesting that the government is something to fear. Sure, they
So, the "scandal" here is that his wife works for Golman Sachs and that pharma stocks are overpriced? Somehow mandating that healthcare workers get vaccinated against a new flu is somehow a huge conspiracy to profit for them how? I recognize that the tin-foil-hat brigade has kicked onto high alert over H1N1 vaccination, but this is stupid. This is front page material how?
TFA is claiming that mandating the flu vaccine would net quite a bit of profit for whatever pharmaceutical company manufactures them and since Goldman Sachs likely invests in said company, they'd stand to gain indirectly from the mandate and therefore so would the husband/wife pushing the flu mandate. But I agree with you. It looks like TFA's claims are a bit of a stretch. These employees work with people who are often immuno-compromised and getting infected with H1/N1 could kill them.
Reading the site that is linked, they don't even have any tangible evidence that there is something going on. A lot of guilt by association innuendo, six degrees of separation connections, and 'what if' type questions.
The CDC says it's because of the shortage of the vaccine. I'll trust them, for the time being, over a biased right-wing radio station.
We've been seeing tons and tons of articles like this recently on slashdot. There's a consistent anti-vaccine slant on all of them. I'm guessing that there's some small group of antivaccine crazies who are active on the firehose, and they consistently vote up each other's stories.
We've been seeing tons and tons of articles like this recently on slashdot. There's a consistent anti-vaccine slant on all of them. I'm guessing that there's some small group of antivaccine crazies who are active on the firehose, and they consistently vote up each other's stories.
You got it, man. It's a conspiracy!
attention: this post may contain excessive levels of irony.
Mandatory vaccines in hospitals make a lot of sense. You don't want a doctor or nurse showing up to work in the ICU and spreading the flu. It is really common sense. For those people who claimed that requiring a vaccine was some sort of invasion of their civil rights, most medical workers I know have to take a lot of vaccines when they start they start the job. Hell, I had a list of vaccines I had to have just to go to college.
As a health worker, your first responsibility is to your patients, and getting the flu shot is part of that.
"Mandatory vaccines in hospitals make a lot of sense. It is really common sense."
Prove it.
Are there any long term studies that show what affects there are on humans from repeated, yearly flu vaccinations? Just claiming it is "common sense" --without any data or facts to support your claim-- doesn't make it so. Don't confuse my query with other types of vaccines that have long established saftey record.
"As a health worker, your first responsibility is to your patients, and getting the flu shot is part of that."
I am a health care worker. I've been busting my ass on a New York City ambulance for the last 13 years. No, my "first responsibility" is *not* to my patients, it is to my partner and I. Since day one of _any_ training curriculum that I have ever completed the lesson has _always_ been "scene safety". Is it safe for my colleague and I to proceed and help? If not, do not proceed until it is safe to do so. In the extreme hypothetical situation where you died in the 3 seconds that it took to me to don a pair of latex gloves, can I be faulted? Absolutely not. So, is it safe for me to get these vaccines on a yearly mandatory basis? We just don't know.
Shit, I can't believe what a stink people are making about this flu. There are a thousand other areas of infection control people should be worried about *before* the masses start getting hysterical about mandatory health care worker vaccinations. You would not believe how basic hygiene and cleanliness are sorely lacking in today's (I work in New York City) health care environment. Simple things, like wiping down the blood pressure cuff or the EKG leads between patients with hospital grade disinfectant wipes, are rarely done. Physicians who won't wash their hands between putting their bare hands on a patient's skin. Stretchers and gurneys that have obvious, gross dried blood on the railings because "housekeeping" only does a cursory wipe of the gurney mattress.
This is not an epidemic or pandemic. The CDC nor the WHO have suggested nor required mandatory vaccinations. Nor has any other state of the union. You and I are one of many of millions of organisms that live, adapt, and co-exist with one another on this planet. No one has ever guaranteed you a long and prosperous life. You are born into this world and you takes your chances; viruses, fungus's, parasites, cancers, warts and all.
You have every right to request a health care provider that meets your specific criteria, e.g., being a Harvard M.D. or having been vaccinated against swine flu, but you don't have the right to request that I be forced to inject something into my body that I am uncomfortable with.
I appreciate the work you do but you're no where near qualified to give a definitive answer on the topic you're writing about.
In order to try to get you to refuse vaccination, the anti-vaccination propagandists will often try to convince you that vaccines are unsafe. They will tell you that vaccines cause debilitating disease and sickness. However, such claims ignore the medical literature, which says something quite different. Before I tell you how we know that vaccines are safe, let me spend a moment disc
In all the media hype there is not one word mentioned of the Pharmaceutical companies involved. Why? Could they be holding out for a better price? That's just good business isn't it? Has America traded its children's future for the promise from a Grinning Show Off with an out stretched hand? There to many dead to ignore these kinds of questions.
Either H1N1 is so serious that we do need a vaccine. Or it's ok to delay vaccinations while we get the finances sorted out. Something smells. And speaking as someone who has had it... all I can say is that it really doesn't seem much worse than regular flu. My only conclusion is that there's a bunch of people making a whole load of money off our fears. Global financial meltdown, H1N1... what's next? We need to give up another few trillion to save ourselves from a plague of locusts? Oh... too late for that o
It has nothing to do with socialism. The Teamsters were greedy liars and cheats. They wanted nothing more than power and money for the higher-ups in the organization and didn't give a rats ass about the members.
The NY State Unions are Outraged that their employer wants to keep its workforce healthy
I am usually as anti-union as they come but this is case where I see them actually doing some good. We don't generally have the abusive employer-employee relationships we had in the past, but your employer insisting you inject something into your body certainly counts!
Its one of the most perverse violations of rights in recent times! We are supposed to be secure in the right of our person.
Now that this has been declared a federal emergency by the big O, I fully expect other groups of people to be "requi
If you have direct patient contact, you should be doing all you can to keep your patients from getting more sick. That means getting your vaccines and getting tests for certain diseases. Or do you think TB testing shouldn't be mandatory for front-line hospital workers as they are now?
And if yes, then there is clear favouritism in giving limited supplies of a vaccine (currently enough to vaccinate around 10% of the population) to politicians first.
President Obama was injected in a public display, but how can you be sure it was the same vaccine they are giving to everyone else.
The military are all required to get the flu injection, and this year the H1N1. Congress is optional, don't know if many did.
I don't really see why you're conflating this with abortion, and then heaping the blame on liberals. It strikes me as very disingenuous to even compare the two things. You were vaccinated as an infant against diseases, do you also consider that to be a violation of your privacy rights? To me it doesn't seem like a bad idea to have health care workers, in a heavily populated city like New York, to be vaccinated against something they'll likely be exposed to.
To me this looks more like 'six degrees of separation' being made by a local right-wing radio station.
It's not difficult at all. A woman receiving an abortion isn't working at a hospital where her abortion can spread to people with weakened immune systems.
Vaccinating people who are working at hospitals, who can spread a virus to everyone they come in contact with as part of their job, isn't in the same league with abortion at all.
You're acting like these are forced vaccinations to the population, and they're not. It seems to me that this is a very common sense thing to do, to keep a virus from being spread in a hospital...
Rice University has a vaccine production researcher that suggests last year's "wrong strain" vaccine increased one's chances of getting H1N1 this year because the "antigenetic distance" yields wrongly targeted (dud) antibodies.
Respected researchers' report from Canada say the odds for getting H1N1 this year were doubled for recipients of last year's flu shot.
Because getting an abortion doesn't endanger anyone else.
The reason vaccinations are mandated is because each person serves as a potential vessel to spread the disease to many other people. Your choice of whether or not to take it is something that affects us all.
I agree we should have a choice about what goes into our bodies, but this is the reasoning, and its not without merit.
The same people who say that women must have free access to abortion, because they have the right to say what they do with their bodies, are now saying that NYS health care workers don't have the right to say what they do with their bodies with regards to a vaccine?
When a woman gets an abortion, only she and the fetus are affected.
When a health worker, WHO WORKES A JOB WHERE THEY WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH INFECTED PEOPLE, refuses to get a shot to prevent the spread of an infection...that affects their
This is, just as the top poster says, anti-vaccine hysteria from people who think their gut beats experts, research, fact. We're the only developed country that has this problem...the rest of the world, hell, even the Catholic church has accepted Evolution, yet nutjobs came out of the woodwork and demanded it's false and constantly challenge its teaching. Then we had the anti-global-warming nutjobs. Now it's anti-vaccine nutjobs.
What's next? Square Earth? We're the pivoting point of the universe? Why is it that it feels like only America has all the idiots who deny the obvious, proven, fact?
Clearly you have never read about issues in other countries. There are skeptics of global warming worldwide, there are critics of the teaching of evolution worldwide (or other widely accepted facts). There are plenty of anti-vaccine groups worldwide.
Additionally there are an ample supply of elitist snobs like you whom feel anyone who disagrees with them must simply be an "idiot" who "denies obvious, proven fact" and attempts to establish this point with strawman arguments.
BUSTED! (Score:5, Insightful)
H1N1 may indeed be pandemic in NYS, but it's still not as prevalent as corruption.
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However I don't see a reason why people shouldn't take the H1N1 vaccine. Ok the guy is making money from this... However Vaccines have a rather poor profit returns (expensive to make and sold with low margins) It would seem like if he was really corrupt he would do something with higher margins. However for someone who is interested in healthcare it wouldn't be surprising that he had investments in healthcare. Just like I am sure many of you have investments in Tech Companies...
Re:BUSTED! (Score:4, Insightful)
Ok the guy is making money from this... However Vaccines have a rather poor profit returns (expensive to make and sold with low margins) It would seem like if he was really corrupt he would do something with higher margins.
It's not hard to understand. If he did something "really corrupt" he would be fined or go to jail. If he does something marginally corrupt then morons will go around defending him saying he "isn't that corrupt" and then he'll get away with it. It's all about risk to reward ratios. Sure he won't make significant money but there is nearly no risk.
Thanks for being an enabler.
Parent
Re:BUSTED! (Score:4, Interesting)
In Britain, apparently a large number of doctors and nurses are refusing to take the H1N1 vaccine. I don't understand the arguments for and against, but if the people who know about these things don't want it, why should I take it?
Parent
Re:BUSTED! (Score:5, Insightful)
What the hell. The article says this:
That's a laughably tiny sample. Hell, for all we know, it's self-selected, which would almost certainly introduce bias. But then they says this:
How the fuck is 60% "in line" with 30%?? But then you look closer, and you actually see this:
Ohhh... so now it's actually 30% (of 219 people) who said they wouldn't, and 30% who weren't sure. Great headline, assholes.
Yeah, sorry bub, you're gonna have to do better than that.
Parent
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However, have a look at how many others are dying from other strains of flu.
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Yes, flu tends to do that. We don't see mandatory vaccinations for every random strain of flu though.
Re:BUSTED! (Score:4, Insightful)
Considering they've already had over 1,000 people die [msn.com] of Swine Flu so far this year in the US alone, why would anyone really need to question this? There is no natural immunity to N1H1. It also affects young adults more than any other group (and need I say a very mobile crowd), with a much higher chance of spreading the disease in colleges, schools, and just in general.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, flu tends to do that.
And not even as often as claimed, either. Usually the fear-inducing headline is "SWINE FLU KILLS A CHILD" and then you find out they were immunocompromised and/or actually died of pneumonia or some other complication. Yes, the secondary illness was likely caused by the body already being weakened by the H1N1, but it could have just as easily happened with regular flu, bronchitis, any number of things that affect the respiratory system. And yes, it is tragic when anyone dies this way, but it doesn't justify
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It's not like polio ever paralyzed anyone.
typo (Score:2, Informative)
Mandating vaccines... (Score:4, Insightful)
I've read suggestions to make people (kids in particular) get vaccinations before but frankly I have never been comfortable with the concept. When you start telling people that they must put something foreign into their bodies at what point exactly does it stop?
Plus what happens if this vaccine turns out to have nasty side effects? Is the state who mandated it responsible or will they just wash their hands and say - "You had a choice!" That's what they tried to do after all the medication they made soliders take in the first gulf war turned out to have serious long term side effects.
Going into crazy paranoia zone here now, but how long until RFID chips (which have already been linked to cancer) will be mandatory for government employees for "security reasons?"
Re:Mandating vaccines... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, I mean what if a doctor gets busy? It is not like if a doctor does not washes their hands between patients [firstthings.com] that nothing bad will come of it.
And everyone knows that a hospital worker getting sick is so much more important than the patient, especially those people who may have a weaken immune system because they are already sick.
Parent
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Many naturally wonder how real the threat is considering how many months we've been told the sky is falling.
Umm, dude, we haven't even entered the northern hemisphere flu season, yet, and we've already hit the average number of pediatric flu deaths for a normal year. Is the sky falling? No (you can blame the media, as always for perpetuating that idea). But there most definitely is cause for concern.
Re:Mandating vaccines... (Score:5, Interesting)
Most reports are that swine flu has been mild compared to the typical in most individuals. This includes reports that some exposed have never developed any symptom. The reported numbers for swine flu rely on the presumption of swine flu rather than the regular seasonal flu, not actual tests. That is, died so must have been swine flu.
What evidence there is suggests that children and the elderly should have priority for vaccination (greater potential benefit for the same risk). Healthy adults should be at the end of the list.
Meanwhile, none of the reports of flu death statistics are based on an actual count. They are all extrapolations and estimates based on 'facts' that are supported mostly by the statistics they support.
A big hint of that was a report that the 5000 worldwide deaths is an estimate because various authorities have stopped counting. Hrmm, only 5000 and it's too many to count or only 5000 so it's not significant enough to count?
And of course, the last time the swine flu was going to kill us all, the vaccine turned out to have serious side effects (for reasons never determined) and the swine flue never went beyond a single military base.
Nevertheless, I was mostly pointing out that being made by the same process doesn't mean the risk is exactly the same and that in any event, double the vaccinations means double the risks. I didn't actually comment on the risk/benefit analysis at all.
Parent
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Considering that all the scary stories (anecdotes) you cite are a minority of cases, it's entirely consistent with my report that most cases are mild.
The reports I have seen indicate "suspected" swine flu, etc, never "confirmed by PCR" swine flu. Not surprising since the CDC has asked that tests NOT [cbsnews.com]be done. A quote from that article:
With most cases diagnosed solely on symptoms and risk factors, the H1N1 flu epidemic may seem worse than it is.
I will happily forgo my shot so someone in the high risk group can have it.
About the CDC stats, a fair portion are self fulfilling. Hospital visits for flue-like symptoms. Not a
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Alright, but if you get mumps orchitis because you refused to get the MMR vaccine, then we as a society shouldn't be obligated to treat your malady. Is that fair?
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Going into crazy paranoia zone here now, but how long until RFID chips (which have already been linked to cancer) will be mandatory for government employees for "security reasons?"
I only found one study. That study was in Sept 2007, no news stories since then. Until it's confirmed by an independent study, I don't know if it's legitimate to say there is a link. Besides, RFID works using non-ionizing radiation (i.e. doesn't break molecules or DNA), not sure how there can be cancer, at least with the RF part.
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Firstly, you have a say, ALWAYS. Governments aren't there to control the people (while you may let them, it's not the case), short of said governments tearing up constitutions and so forth you can always fight back.
Secondly, there are KNOWN side effects with this vaccine, they are clearly stated prior to vaccination (at least here in Australia) as required by law - just the same as all vaccines.
I really don't get where these paranoid delusions suggesting that the government is something to fear. Sure, they
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When you start telling people that they must put something foreign into their bodies at what point exactly does it stop?
Well, in this case, it stops right around the point where the state requires that health care workers receive the flu vaccine.
There's a reason slippery slope is a logical fallacy, rather than a legitimate logical argument.
hunh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:hunh? (Score:5, Informative)
TFA is claiming that mandating the flu vaccine would net quite a bit of profit for whatever pharmaceutical company manufactures them and since Goldman Sachs likely invests in said company, they'd stand to gain indirectly from the mandate and therefore so would the husband/wife pushing the flu mandate. But I agree with you. It looks like TFA's claims are a bit of a stretch. These employees work with people who are often immuno-compromised and getting infected with H1/N1 could kill them.
Parent
Consider the source (Score:3, Insightful)
Reading the site that is linked, they don't even have any tangible evidence that there is something going on. A lot of guilt by association innuendo, six degrees of separation connections, and 'what if' type questions.
The CDC says it's because of the shortage of the vaccine. I'll trust them, for the time being, over a biased right-wing radio station.
antivaxxers on slashdot (Score:3, Interesting)
We've been seeing tons and tons of articles like this recently on slashdot. There's a consistent anti-vaccine slant on all of them. I'm guessing that there's some small group of antivaccine crazies who are active on the firehose, and they consistently vote up each other's stories.
Re:antivaxxers on slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
We've been seeing tons and tons of articles like this recently on slashdot. There's a consistent anti-vaccine slant on all of them. I'm guessing that there's some small group of antivaccine crazies who are active on the firehose, and they consistently vote up each other's stories.
You got it, man. It's a conspiracy!
attention: this post may contain excessive levels of irony.
Parent
Re:antivaxxers on slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
How can you have a positive slant vaccine article?
"Man gets immunized, doesn't get the sniffles..."
Not very newsworthy.
Parent
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Nation gets immunized, people stop dying and being crippled by polio.
Actual headlines:
"Salk's vaccine works"
"Polio routed"
"Polio vaccine is 'safe, effective, and potent'"
Re:antivaxxers on slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Mandatory vaccines in hospitals make a lot of sense. You don't want a doctor or nurse showing up to work in the ICU and spreading the flu. It is really common sense. For those people who claimed that requiring a vaccine was some sort of invasion of their civil rights, most medical workers I know have to take a lot of vaccines when they start they start the job. Hell, I had a list of vaccines I had to have just to go to college.
As a health worker, your first responsibility is to your patients, and getting the flu shot is part of that.
Parent
Re:antivaxxers on slashdot (Score:4, Insightful)
"Mandatory vaccines in hospitals make a lot of sense. It is really common sense."
Prove it.
Are there any long term studies that show what affects there are on humans from repeated, yearly flu vaccinations? Just claiming it is "common sense" --without any data or facts to support your claim-- doesn't make it so. Don't confuse my query with other types of vaccines that have long established saftey record.
"As a health worker, your first responsibility is to your patients, and getting the flu shot is part of that."
I am a health care worker. I've been busting my ass on a New York City ambulance for the last 13 years. No, my "first responsibility" is *not* to my patients, it is to my partner and I. Since day one of _any_ training curriculum that I have ever completed the lesson has _always_ been "scene safety". Is it safe for my colleague and I to proceed and help? If not, do not proceed until it is safe to do so. In the extreme hypothetical situation where you died in the 3 seconds that it took to me to don a pair of latex gloves, can I be faulted? Absolutely not. So, is it safe for me to get these vaccines on a yearly mandatory basis? We just don't know.
Shit, I can't believe what a stink people are making about this flu. There are a thousand other areas of infection control people should be worried about *before* the masses start getting hysterical about mandatory health care worker vaccinations. You would not believe how basic hygiene and cleanliness are sorely lacking in today's (I work in New York City) health care environment. Simple things, like wiping down the blood pressure cuff or the EKG leads between patients with hospital grade disinfectant wipes, are rarely done. Physicians who won't wash their hands between putting their bare hands on a patient's skin. Stretchers and gurneys that have obvious, gross dried blood on the railings because "housekeeping" only does a cursory wipe of the gurney mattress.
This is not an epidemic or pandemic. The CDC nor the WHO have suggested nor required mandatory vaccinations. Nor has any other state of the union. You and I are one of many of millions of organisms that live, adapt, and co-exist with one another on this planet. No one has ever guaranteed you a long and prosperous life. You are born into this world and you takes your chances; viruses, fungus's, parasites, cancers, warts and all.
You have every right to request a health care provider that meets your specific criteria, e.g., being a Harvard M.D. or having been vaccinated against swine flu, but you don't have the right to request that I be forced to inject something into my body that I am uncomfortable with.
Parent
I'm a doctor. (Score:3, Insightful)
I appreciate the work you do but you're no where near qualified to give a definitive answer on the topic you're writing about.
In order to try to get you to refuse vaccination, the anti-vaccination propagandists will often try to convince you that vaccines are unsafe. They will tell you that vaccines cause debilitating disease and sickness. However, such claims ignore the medical literature, which says something quite different. Before I tell you how we know that vaccines are safe, let me spend a moment disc
Curious, But Pharmaceutical Company Names Are? (Score:2)
So (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Unions are outraged! (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't that sort of a defining aspect of a union?
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What Unions did 100 years ago or even 25 years is not what they are doing now.
They had their time and and place, and the 21st century is not one of them. As an ex-union (Teamsters) employee, I will never support them again
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It has nothing to do with socialism. The Teamsters were greedy liars and cheats. They wanted nothing more than power and money for the higher-ups in the organization and didn't give a rats ass about the members.
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When have unions ever worked against the interests of their members?
When there is money involved for union leaders.
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The NY State Unions are Outraged that their employer wants to keep its workforce healthy
I am usually as anti-union as they come but this is case where I see them actually doing some good. We don't generally have the abusive employer-employee relationships we had in the past, but your employer insisting you inject something into your body certainly counts!
Its one of the most perverse violations of rights in recent times! We are supposed to be secure in the right of our person.
Now that this has been declared a federal emergency by the big O, I fully expect other groups of people to be "requi
Re:Unions are outraged! (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have direct patient contact, you should be doing all you can to keep your patients from getting more sick. That means getting your vaccines and getting tests for certain diseases. Or do you think TB testing shouldn't be mandatory for front-line hospital workers as they are now?
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You send thugs with baseball bats to break up union meetings?
Damn...
Re:Has President Obama Taken the Vaccine? (Score:4, Insightful)
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The military are all required to get the flu injection, and this year the H1N1. Congress is optional, don't know if many did.
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He got a flu shot [washingtonpost.com] along with his family but it wasn't for H1/N1.
Re:The hypocrisy is amazing... (Score:5, Insightful)
To me this looks more like 'six degrees of separation' being made by a local right-wing radio station.
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Re:The hypocrisy is amazing... (Score:5, Insightful)
Vaccinating people who are working at hospitals, who can spread a virus to everyone they come in contact with as part of their job, isn't in the same league with abortion at all.
You're acting like these are forced vaccinations to the population, and they're not. It seems to me that this is a very common sense thing to do, to keep a virus from being spread in a hospital...
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science shows limitations to current flu vaccines (Score:3, Interesting)
Respected researchers' report from Canada say the odds for getting H1N1 this year were doubled for recipients of last year's flu shot.
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The reason vaccinations are mandated is because each person serves as a potential vessel to spread the disease to many other people. Your choice of whether or not to take it is something that affects us all.
I agree we should have a choice about what goes into our bodies, but this is the reasoning, and its not without merit.
control over one's body vs. public health (Score:3, Insightful)
The same people who say that women must have free access to abortion, because they have the right to say what they do with their bodies, are now saying that NYS health care workers don't have the right to say what they do with their bodies with regards to a vaccine?
When a woman gets an abortion, only she and the fetus are affected.
When a health worker, WHO WORKES A JOB WHERE THEY WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH INFECTED PEOPLE, refuses to get a shot to prevent the spread of an infection...that affects their
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This is, just as the top poster says, anti-vaccine hysteria from people who think their gut beats experts, research, fact. We're the only developed country that has this problem...the rest of the world, hell, even the Catholic church has accepted Evolution, yet nutjobs came out of the woodwork and demanded it's false and constantly challenge its teaching. Then we had the anti-global-warming nutjobs. Now it's anti-vaccine nutjobs.
What's next? Square Earth? We're the pivoting point of the universe? Why is it that it feels like only America has all the idiots who deny the obvious, proven, fact?
Clearly you have never read about issues in other countries. There are skeptics of global warming worldwide, there are critics of the teaching of evolution worldwide (or other widely accepted facts). There are plenty of anti-vaccine groups worldwide.
Additionally there are an ample supply of elitist snobs like you whom feel anyone who disagrees with them must simply be an "idiot" who "denies obvious, proven fact" and attempts to establish this point with strawman arguments.