mcgrew writes to mention that the Large Hadron Collider, smasher of particles, will get another chance to prove itself this November. The restart will begin with tests at half power, a mere 7 trillion electron volts (TeV), and ramp up slowly to the designed goal of 14 TeV. "Measurements indicate that some of the electrical connections could not safely handle the amount of current needed to run at the full 14 TeV, so will need to be replaced before dialing up the energy that far. But even 7 TeV is much higher than physicists have ever probed in the laboratory before. The Tevatron accelerator at Fermilab in Batavia, Illinois, is the current record holder, with collisions at 2 TeV."
It is actually fairly simple relativity, the faster an object moves relative to another, the slower its time reference to the other is. Even though relative to each other from an outside viewpoint they seem to be travelling passed each other at greater than the speed of light, Each experiences a time dialation relative to mass and velocity, so in the frame of reference where the particles collide, they are moving much slower than the speed of light due to time taking longer. When the collision occurs, velocity is mostly cancelled out relative to the surrounding environment, and all of the energy that was contained in the high-speed sub-atomic particles is released in a cloud of elementary particles, which recombine into new and interesting matter. It is out of this cloud that the quark-gluon plasma is formed, which in turn is theoretically capable of forming quantum singularities at high enough energy densities. The faster you can get a particle moving, the higher its energy level is, the higher the density of energy will be at moment of collision.
There is actually a website available here [hasthelarg...rldyet.com] that monitors the situation and gives real-time updates on the status of the LHC.
What's amusing is if you view the page source of that link. There's even a nifty comment there: "if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated
please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund" Going to email Mikey and ask for a refund. Maybe he won't check.
Meh. You have to wait for someone to manually update that page. You'd be better off checking the status yourself with the internal and external webcams [cyriak.co.uk].
I talked to one of scientists the other day and he said that there's nothing to worry about. He did admit that they had never driven the hardware as hard as this before and kept calling me Gordon though... Bah! All those damn scientists look the same to me.
One thing missing from the summary is that 3.5 TeV/beam is only (hoïpefully) a very temporary setup. The ramp up to 5TeV/beam, or 10 TeV centre of mass energy should be quick rapid if everything works. Going to the full 7 TeV will take longer though.
Curly: "Well, I put in the antimatter."
Larry: "You put in the antimatter?!? You're crazy - I put in the antimatter!"
Moe: "You're both wrong, I put in the antimatter."
It always kinda amuses* me to remember that 7 TeV is equal to ~1 microJoule. So this incredibly massive and complicated machine is required just to reach energies that are a million times less than what I can get by flicking my pinky finger. Though they do put all that energy into a single subatomic particle and carefully guide them into hitting each other right in front of their detectors, while every time I try to flick a proton with my finger I end up hitting a ton of them and they go flying off every which way, so I guess we still need the LHC.
It seems like we live a universe where the knowledge and secrets of reality are kept well hidden and very difficult to access, like it is trying to keep us as ignorant fools who dont know what anything is or why its here. We have a better grasp in recent years, but we are still a long way to knowing what this is all about on a scientific level (thought religions propose their own speculative/intuitive ideas about this).
Well it does not accelerate just *one* particle. According to the CERN people, a typical single beam will have enough energy to melt half a ton of copper. Your hand waving must be pretty strong, I guess.
Your post is modded funny, but it is absolutely correct.
The key point, however, is that when you flick your finger, and end up hitting a huge number of protons, the energy is therefore distributed among all these protons, neutrons, electrons, etc., and so nothing very interesting happens. When all the energy is is concentrated in one collision between two subatomic particles, then very interesting things happen, the most important of which is the creation of a shower of short-lived particles which we don't
Every mention of LHC coincides with how they're trying to find the Higgs. Say they find it within a year, what happens then? I understand the LHC is designed for hadrons and for lead nuclei, so that would indicate more experiments down the pipe, but could someone explain what they plan to do, or will they just party for 10 years after the Higgs is found and then shut the thing down?
I realize I could go try to search for the answer, but if the average/.'er won't even read TFA, how many do you expect to do
Remember the old saying: the most exciting phrase in science is not 'eureka' it's 'that's odd...'
Finding the Higgs boson is not particularly exciting. The interesting things that happen at an experiment like this are things that don't fit with established models. Obviously, you can't tell what these are until after you've run the experiment.
Science works by making an observation, constructing a theory, and then testing it. If the tests don't contradict the theory then it's nice, but it's not particul
Well when you find the Higgs, you want to measure its properties and see if you really have a Higgs and not some random new particle. And then if it is the Higgs, you want to see which Higgs it is. All this takes time and lots and lots of data.
And unless we are very unlucky, there should hopefully be lots of other werid and wonderful things to find. I'm personally not interested in the Higgs at all but much more exotic things. But for the media, its easier to say "we are looking for X" rather than we ar
Supersymmetry is a bigger deal than the Higgs, I would judge. The LHC is expected to find SUSY quite rapidly. Additionally, we will want to measure Higgs properties, perform precision measurements of various things such as the single top cross section, B_s mixing (and CP violation, and maaaaybe CPT violation), the top mass, the W and Z masses, etc. More exotic things include searching for (yes, really) black hole production, large extra dimensions, technicolor (an alternative model to the standard model
On the contrary. The Higgs is discoverable at a 5 sigma significance level (PhysRev standard for "discovery") with about 1 year's worth of data at design energy and luminosity.[1] Furthermore, since people have already worked on analyses, it will only take probably about 6 months to run the analyses on the data and get the results approved by the collaboration. So, with the current startup schedule, barring any more problems, we should expect to see a Higgs discovery paper from CMS and ATLAS in time for
Now I can't get that song out of my head again. "LHCB sees where the anti-matter's gone. ALICE looks at collisions of lead ions. CMS and ATLAS are two of a kind. They're looking for whatever new particles they can find..."
Somehow I read that as Vega [wikipedia.org] should start a pool. If the LHC does destroy the Earth, then Vega will get a good view of it in around 25 years...
We were just briefed at CERN of the plan. It is a plan. Plans can change. With that proviso:
0 - get the beams circulating at injection energy (from last year's experience, this happened in one week)
1 - take some collision data at injection energy (450 GeV/c per beam => 900 GeV at center-of-mass or half the Tevatron) (from last year's experience, this could be only another week)
2 - CERN will observe the annual closure from Dec 19 to Jan 3.
3 - ramp the energy up to 3.5 TeV/c per beam (7 TeV center-of-mass energy, 3.6x more than the Tevatron)
4 - take enough data to be competitive with 20 years of Tevatron in some topics
5 - ramps the energy to 5 TeV/c per beam (10 TeV center-of-mass energy, 5 times more than the Tevatron)
6 - inject lead-ions and have some Pb+Pb collisions at around 2.75 TeV center-of-mass energy? (that would be 13 times more energy than Brookhaven's RHIC Au+Au)
7 - shutdown and work on getting the machine ready for 7 TeV/c per beam
-10 gauge 100% pure palladium wire is hard to come by. they've had to go with the 75% platinum / 25% palladium 0 gauge for the time being but it just doesn't perform like the real thing...
Only half (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Only half (Score:5, Funny)
Looks like they are right on schedule for their planned full power-up on December 21, 2012.
Parent
Re:Only half (Score:5, Funny)
There is actually a website available here [hasthelarg...rldyet.com] that monitors the situation and gives real-time updates on the status of the LHC.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
There is actually a website available here [hasthelarg...rldyet.com] that monitors the situation and gives real-time updates on the status of the LHC.
Drats. You beat me to it.
Re: (Score:2)
That's the time dilation... they actually collide at slightly nearer to the speed of light.
Re:Only half (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Only half (Score:5, Funny)
There is actually a website available here [hasthelarg...rldyet.com] that monitors the situation and gives real-time updates on the status of the LHC.
What's amusing is if you view the page source of that link. There's even a nifty comment there: "if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund" Going to email Mikey and ask for a refund. Maybe he won't check.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Alternately, if the web site is down, assume the black hole has expanded enough to suck in the web server...
Re:Only half (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Get this "hardon" two bath tubs outside side-by-side and some Levitra* stat!
*is it Levitra? I don't remember, as I'm not a user of said pills**...yet.
**YMMV
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So, a half black hole is a grey pothole?
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I guess they'll only be able to look for (Score:2)
The DemiGod Particle [washingtonpost.com].
Temporary! (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Did anyone else envision one of the three stooges in a lab coat saying "hoyepfully" when they read this?
Re: (Score:2)
Larry: "You put in the antimatter?!? You're crazy - I put in the antimatter!"
Moe: "You're both wrong, I put in the antimatter."
Re:Temporary! (Score:4, Funny)
I wonder if it would be be louder if they turned the dial all the way up to 11 TeV.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Fun with units... (Score:5, Funny)
It always kinda amuses* me to remember that 7 TeV is equal to ~1 microJoule. So this incredibly massive and complicated machine is required just to reach energies that are a million times less than what I can get by flicking my pinky finger. Though they do put all that energy into a single subatomic particle and carefully guide them into hitting each other right in front of their detectors, while every time I try to flick a proton with my finger I end up hitting a ton of them and they go flying off every which way, so I guess we still need the LHC.
* Yes I am easily amused, why do you ask?
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It seems like we live a universe where the knowledge and secrets of reality are kept well hidden and very difficult to access, like it is trying to keep us as ignorant fools who dont know what anything is or why its here. We have a better grasp in recent years, but we are still a long way to knowing what this is all about on a scientific level (thought religions propose their own speculative/intuitive ideas about this).
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
while every time I try to flick a proton with my finger I end up hitting a ton of them and they go flying off every which way
I, for one, welcome our newly cloned elephant [wikipedia.org] overlord!
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I, for one, welcome our newly cloned elephant overlord!
What can I say? I have a very large pinky (and of course I flick it very slowly).
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Your post is modded funny, but it is absolutely correct.
The key point, however, is that when you flick your finger, and end up hitting a huge number of protons, the energy is therefore distributed among all these protons, neutrons, electrons, etc., and so nothing very interesting happens. When all the energy is is concentrated in one collision between two subatomic particles, then very interesting things happen, the most important of which is the creation of a shower of short-lived particles which we don't
True, but... (Score:2)
But even 7 TeV is much higher than physicists have ever probed in the laboratory before.
This is true, but is that probable to lead to anything special? Can for example the Higgs particle be found at such low energies?
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I realize I could go try to search for the answer, but if the average
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There's an excellent video on YouTube of Ed Farhi explaining it in some detail: Why Physicists Need the Large Hadron Collider [youtube.com]
Basically, if all they find is the Higgs boson, that will be a huge disappointment. (Unfortunately, that's the expected outcome.)
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Finding the Higgs boson is not particularly exciting. The interesting things that happen at an experiment like this are things that don't fit with established models. Obviously, you can't tell what these are until after you've run the experiment.
Science works by making an observation, constructing a theory, and then testing it. If the tests don't contradict the theory then it's nice, but it's not particul
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And unless we are very unlucky, there should hopefully be lots of other werid and wonderful things to find. I'm personally not interested in the Higgs at all but much more exotic things. But for the media, its easier to say "we are looking for X" rather than we ar
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Dammit, will you stop posting LHC articles?! (Score:3, Funny)
Now I can't get that song out of my head again. "LHCB sees where the anti-matter's gone. ALICE looks at collisions of lead ions. CMS and ATLAS are two of a kind. They're looking for whatever new particles they can find..."
Argh!
Only 7TeV? (Score:4, Funny)
I'll be more impressed when they turn it up to 11.
It's like a casino... (Score:4, Funny)
"LHC To Start Back Up In November At Half Power"
Any bets that it will not?
Vegas should start a pool, I'm sure it would be a hit with the betters.
god does not play dice (Score:2)
with the universe
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Vegas should start a pool
Somehow I read that as Vega [wikipedia.org] should start a pool. If the LHC does destroy the Earth, then Vega will get a good view of it in around 25 years...
Slow news day? (Score:2)
Off topic, but this is the only story on the front page from today. Quit slackin!
Re: (Score:2)
Oh nevermind, just another slashdot fart.
This has never happened before, I swear! (Score:4, Funny)
The restart will begin with tests at half power, a mere 7 trillion electron volts (TeV), and ramp up slowly to the designed goal of 14 TeV.
So I guess you could say that the Large Hadron Collider is being treated for electron dysfunction.
Rob
The actual plan (Score:5, Informative)
Hi,
We were just briefed at CERN of the plan. It is a plan. Plans can change. With that proviso:
0 - get the beams circulating at injection energy (from last year's experience, this happened in one week)
1 - take some collision data at injection energy (450 GeV/c per beam => 900 GeV at center-of-mass or half the Tevatron) (from last year's experience, this could be only another week)
2 - CERN will observe the annual closure from Dec 19 to Jan 3.
3 - ramp the energy up to 3.5 TeV/c per beam (7 TeV center-of-mass energy, 3.6x more than the Tevatron)
4 - take enough data to be competitive with 20 years of Tevatron in some topics
5 - ramps the energy to 5 TeV/c per beam (10 TeV center-of-mass energy, 5 times more than the Tevatron)
6 - inject lead-ions and have some Pb+Pb collisions at around 2.75 TeV center-of-mass energy? (that would be 13 times more energy than Brookhaven's RHIC Au+Au)
7 - shutdown and work on getting the machine ready for 7 TeV/c per beam
Thank you for your attention.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:So, (Score:5, Funny)
they've been soldering those wires. They should you thicker ones if they want higher current
I was at BestBuy a few years ago and heard the blue-shirted drone tell these guys "Look, you have to use Monster Cable for your Hadron collider."
Did they listen? No!
.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Did they listen? No!
Not true. I heard they tried to buy the proper cable but attempted [thathomesite.com] to pay with $2 bills and were promptly arrested ;)
Re:Meh. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
car analogy (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
One electron volt is equal to 1.60217653(14) x 10^19 joules.
And they are talking about 7 and 14 Trillion eV which is a bunch of joules! Pretty nice ;)
You missed by a factor of 10^38
1 eV = 1.6 x 10^MINUS19 Joules
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, 1 electron volt is closer to 10^(-19) Joules, so
14 TeV = 2.2 x 10^(-6) J
(When in doubt, ask google [google.com]! :-))