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Space Science

China Scrubs Moon Mission Plans 390

Posted by michael from the couldn't-hold-breath-long-enough dept.
Jim McCoy writes "CNN is reporting that according to China's state media, plans for a manned moon mission have been shelved due to cost. They are planning on a space station though..."
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China Scrubs Moon Mission Plans More

China Scrubs Moon Mission Plans

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  • Ha! They were right... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @01:55PM (#9186064)
    They finally found the US documents to prove THERE IS NO MOON!!!

  • Common problem (Score:5, Funny)

    by Neil Blender ( 555885 ) <neilblender@gmail.com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @01:55PM (#9186067)
    The found that after going to the moon, they'd have to go again in an hour. The additive cost was just too much.

  • Rots of ruck. (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    With your next manned space fright.
  • I hate to say it, but if some other country (China, India, Russia, etc.) got their act together and went and did something of note in space, it might inspire the administration and congress of the US to place a higher priority and more resources into the american space program. This is a shameful decision for both China and for the space program of the world.
    • ...it did.

      You think all that "we're going to Mars" stuff was a mistake or a coincidence?

      It's all just the same "one-upsmanship" that's common in international politics.

      Now that China isn't in the picture, I'll bet you a candy bar and a +1 Insightful that we don't go to the moon either.

      • Re:Such a shame (Score:4, Insightful)

        by EpsCylonB ( 307640 ) <eps&epscylonb,com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:31PM (#9186646) Homepage
        You think all that "we're going to Mars" stuff was a mistake or a coincidence?

        I think that it probably had more to do with distracting the voting populous from the disastrous results of the american foreign policy because this is an election year.

        • Re:Such a shame (Score:3, Interesting)

          by demachina ( 71715 )
          I think it probably has as more to do with finding a way to shovel large amounts of money in to the coffers of the aerospace companies that are key benefactors of the Bush administration. Boeing in particular is looking to be in deep trouble trying to compete with Airbus in the commercial aviation market. There are some who contend Airbus is winning thanks to subsidies from European governments. This program would be a great way for the U.S. to subsidize Boeing without it being challenged in the WTO. Th
  • CNN is reporting that China has scrapped its plans for a space station, due to cost. The Chinese government is committed, however, to launching at least three new biplanes this week.
    • You remind me of the imperialist Brits who also thought the natives were good for nothing but riddicule. Who do you think invented rockets in the first place? (Please don't answer that it was America.)
      • Traditional Chinese rockets have more in common with modern artillery shells and bullets than rockets and missiles. The Chinese didn't invent the liquid fueled rocket. That was done by a mixture of Americans, Germans, and Russians. Traditional Chinese rocket concepts have essentially no bearing on modern spacecraft.

        Still, you are correct about the parent poster being an ass.

        • I didn't say they invented liquid rockets - I was referring to the solid variety. Speaking of which, what about the solid rocket boosters? They're a pretty common sight on many's a space launcher.

  • Shelved due to cost... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lukewarmfusion ( 726141 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @01:57PM (#9186116) Homepage Journal
    A space station? That sure is thrifty!

    There's an International Space Station... why can't we all work together?
    • Amercians fear they might loose any millitary advantage in space they currently have over China.
      If China were to ever clean up it's human rights record, I'm sure they'd have a lot more friends pushing to get them into the ISS.
      But like that's going to happen anytime soon.
    • since China wasnt part of the original plans for the ISS I dont think Chinese space components can be added it at this stage...

      unless they used Russian components? I dunno.
      That or help the other countries get their stuff up in the ISS's orbit?

  • Space Station Huh? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Deflagro ( 187160 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @01:58PM (#9186124)
    This is obviously something just to save face. Everyone knew they would run into cost issues I believe. It can't be cheap to do stuff on the moon. Just as it can't be cheap to do things in orbit.

    Give it 6 months or so and their space station will become some kind of probe, then a rocket, etc...

  • National Space Station (Score:5, Informative)

    by Angstroem ( 692547 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @01:58PM (#9186133)
    Actually, China also postponed the moon mission because they now want to built their very own space station after the US just replied "no" to China's question if they could participate in the ISS project.

    And I always thought the "I" in ISS stood for "international".

    • Re:National Space Station (Score:4, Informative)

      by stienman ( 51024 ) <adavis&ubasics,com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:23PM (#9186540) Homepage Journal
      And I always thought the "I" in ISS stood for "international".

      It means 'International' not 'inclusive' which is what I think you're trying to get at. A contract between any two nations is international, regardless of how many other nations sign on, don't sign on, disagree, or are disallowed from participating.

      There are varied reasons for not accepting the Chinese into the ISS as an equal. Arguing whether they are good reasons or not is probably pointless - there are doubtless people on many sides of this issue. It could be something as simple as they are unwilling to design their rockets/parts in a way that matches our safety standards. It could be something as complex as a long ago treaty on rocket usage they broke which 'we' are going to hang over their head until they give an apology. We, the public, will never know all the reasons, reasonable or not, because not only do our leaders not want them to be known, but the chinese gov't really doesn't want people to know.

      -Adam
  • of sending a man to the moon? To say they did it? It would be the biggest waste of money since I paid my taxes in April. I just don't see the rationale behind it - it's good they scrubbed it.
    • It would be the biggest waste of money since I paid my taxes in April.

      At least *they* realized it in time

    • Re:What would have been the point.. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      That's exactly the point.

      Think of this parallel: Pakistan tested a nuclear weapon several years ago, knowing full well that doing so would bring them international scorn and economic sanctions. They did it for "pride." They did it to show the world that they had mastered atomic knowledge, despite the fact they have great difficulty in feeding their population. Pakistanis were tremendously proud of their achievment.

      Likewise, the Chinese would become only the second country *ever* to put a human on the mo
    • At this point, I'd gladly prefer my tax dollars going towards sending a team to the moon, as opposed to the invasion of another country, summer vacation homes for Halliburton and Gartner Group staff, tax cuts for the rich, faith-based organizations, or national biometrics databases.

      It would be nice to have our nation rally around something which doesn't (intentionally) involve killing people.

      It would be nice to have people talking about science that doesn't involve CGI in movie production, weight loss tec
  • Seems like a pretty classical case here. While I think a journey to the moon, even if not original, can still be a great opportunity for scientific research, I'd have to say this is probably a smart move by the Chinese government. A lot of information that could be obtained by such a mission would probably already be known from the American moon landings. And its not worth spending the ungodly amounts of money necessary to rediscover the moon rock.

    Besides which, I think this whole thing was just a space pr
  • I wanted to see an international space race again... just because I might get the chance to work on the software systems. That's some really cool stuff. Perhaps China's space station and our space station can have drag races. That would be sweet! I can see it now, as the US station pulls ahead, race fans everywhere shout: WOO! "That's a big ten-four, you some b*tch monkey n*ts!" (Dr. Evil)
  • Will there prices be competetive with the prices the russians offer to visit? Will boneless spare ribs and pork fried rice be included or will that be extra? and where can I sighn up?
  • Let us for just one moment put aside the notion of Media Spin on this article and take a look at a few elements...

    "China has welcomed international cooperation in its space station."

    Headlong goes the project forward as money spent on our people here on Earth is of far less importance than showing the rest of the World that we alone can build and support a space station diplomacy be Damned...

    It was unclear if plans to forge ahead on its own were influenced by recent signs the United States might not want China to join the 16-nation, $95 billion International Space Station.

    What signs were these? If as is stated in "16-nation" is correct, it is not only the United States' decision on who does or does not join the project...

    Chinese space officials were "shocked" the United States had not done more to welcome them into the small community of space-faring nations, a leading U.S. expert said last month after a trip to China.

    Again, if this is a 16-nation project, it is not just the United States who should be "welcoming" anyone, nor is the United States sole choice in who joins or not.

    The United States harbors concerns that the army-run Chinese program could some day pose a threat to U.S. dominance in military satellite communications.

    And finally the "truth" comes to light.

    I am NOT looking to be "Flamebait" here, but just look at what this article is saying and Think about the political climate we live in right now and who has the "power" to extend or retract a hand!
    • The US has had to financially carry the majority of modules which have gone into the ISS. In name it may be the international space station, but we wrote most of the checks and I suspect we're going to be making most of the rules as a result. As little interest as we show in going into space in ways other than putting up satellites, it seems that the rest of the globe has even less. This is unfortunate because as our financial climate worsens, we will have (as a nation) less and less tolerance for money spe

  • space station? ugh. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bani ( 467531 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:13PM (#9186382)
    last thing anyone needs is another space station.

    china could do well with planetary probes. you get a lot of bang for the buck -- look at what the recent NASA mars probes accomplished.

    something like a couple chinese venusian landers (rovers?) would be easily within the chinese monetary and technological budget, and would put them on the map. venusian exploration has been extremely sparse, despite how easy it is to get there compared to mars.

    or how about a mercurian orbiter/lander? nobody's been there yet.

  • Why? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by randall_burns ( 108052 ) <randall_burns@@@hotmail...com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:14PM (#9186385)
    My understanding is that one of the reasons for the proposed Chinese Lunar mission was to lay the groundwork to mine Helium-3 [spacedaily.com]. It seems a bit strange to me that when oil prices are at a very high point, the Chinese government would be moving resources away from energy related projects.


    It appears that energy is a major factor that is pacing Chinese economic development. Have the Chinese established some other energy sources through R&D(say some results in some other form of hot fusion) or diplomatic arrangements(i.e. a deal with the Russians or Islamic oil exporters)?

  • Fear (Score:5, Insightful)

    by netfool ( 623800 ) * on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:15PM (#9186406) Homepage

    "The United States harbors concerns that the army-run Chinese program could some day pose a threat to U.S. dominance in military satellite communications."

    I can understand the concern. A billion plus people, a huge army, an economy that is growing rapidly and will probably soon trounce the US's to become the next Superpower.
    But China has never really been an expansionistic type country. It's seems throughout their history, they're usually the ones attacked, or the fighting is domestic (power struggles etc).

    Here's where I contradict myself - I could see all of that changing however, a growing economy with a billion++ people will probably need a lot of resources...especially oil.

    I wonder if this whole Iraq war is really about safeguarding the middle east from future chinese aggression. I mean, we can't have a communist nation invading a democratic nation! Or even an areas around it as it would cause the domino effect and all the countries around it would fall to communisim as well (SEE Vietnam War).

    • Re:Fear (Score:4, Insightful)

      by InternationalCow ( 681980 ) <mauricevansteensel.mac@com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:25PM (#9186564) Journal
      You do have a point, but I disagree on China not being expansionist. Their history clearly shows that, on occasion (when deemed safe to do so without too many political/military consequences) they DO expand at the expense of others. Example in point being Tibet. And if they could get away with it (they cannot now since that would start a major war) they would gobble up Taiwan in the blink of an eye. I should also mention Mongolia in this context. So, I do appreciate the concerns about a Chinese, perhaps armed, presence in space...

      • Re:Fear (Score:3, Interesting)

        by corngrower ( 738661 )
        You forgot to mention Korea, VietNam and Cambodia. All of which had Civil Unrest that was actively, militarily supported by China.

    • Re:Fear (Score:4, Informative)

      by Ragnar Forkbeard ( 621842 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:37PM (#9186749)
      But China has never really been an expansionistic type country.

      Tell that to the Tibetans [freetibet.org].

    • Re:Fear (Score:4, Informative)

      by pavon ( 30274 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:57PM (#9187011)
      A billion plus people, a huge army, an economy that is growing rapidly and will probably soon trounce the US's to become the next Superpower.

      I don't know about that. The huge boom in the chinese economy has been due to the the US outsourcing - in effect a huge chunk of the market was transfered out of the US into China, and they got all of the sales that went with it, for free. But this is quickly reaching an end. Just about everything that makes sense to outsource to China has already been outsourced. Proof of this can be seen by the fact that the growth rate has dropped from 36% at the peak of outsourcing to around 8% today. Furthermore, most economists (including the chinese) think that large sectors (like textiles) are becoming overexended and will crash if they don't put the brakes on investment soon. Most analysts expect their growth rate to come down to a normal 5-6% soon.

      This makes sense. In order for your economy to grow, you need to have someone to buy your goods.
      As I mentioned, there isn't much opportunity for growth due to outsourcing. The current exports to the US are limited by US economic growth. Lastly the thing that allows 1st world countries (like the US) to continue to grow is that we can purchace everything we produce. However, the recent growth in China has been very disproportionate and the vast majority of the people are still dirt poor, which causes difficulty in this regard. Basically China has gotten all the free growth they are going to get, and from here on out it they will have to work hard for it the old fasion way, just like everyone else.

      That said I also think that the US (or WTO or whoever) needs to force China play fair. With the free trade should come the obligation to play by the rules, and that includes not manipulating currency, and not getting unfair advantages from human rights violations.

    • Ming (Score:3)

      by kippy ( 416183 )
      If I remember correctly, China was very expansionist in the dynasty before the Ming dynasty. They had built and sailed ships that were capable of going anywhere in the world. I think they had even sailed as far as east africa. Then the Ming dynasty kicked in and they burnt the boats because they thought that anything foreign wasn't worth their time.

      Had they continued on that path, they might have easily have gotten to a very backward Europe and we would all be speaking Mandrin today.

      There's nothing wro

  • Oh great.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kevin Burtch ( 13372 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:21PM (#9186504)

    ( This will undoubtedly get modded as a troll by some Bush-loving republican, but who cares? ;) )

    Now Bush will undoubtedly follow by canceling the new moon & mars missions.

    Why do I say this?

    He was killing off everything he could with regard to NASA, cutting their funding to the extreme... until China announced their plans.
    He immediately did a 180 and said we have to go to the moon and mars.

    Why?

    We haven't been there in over 25 years, it's up for grabs!
    Whoever gets there 1st will end up claiming it like a poor mannered brat in a sandbox.

    Why should anyone care?

    Because the moon has resources that can be used to launch further missions... watch educational TV some time (Discovery, TLC, Science channel, etc.) and you might see what I'm talking about.
    • Bush will be out of office long before any concrete plans can be made for any Mars mission, that's why he can afford to stand and make gradiose speeches about it as if he's some sort of JFK. in any case the guy has yet to see a spending plan that he doesn't like, I couldn't see him pulling the plug on any of this stuff. Our children will be working off the debt this clown has run up on the nation's credit card.

    • Re:Oh great.... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ChaoticLimbs ( 597275 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:57PM (#9187020) Journal
      See, your main problem in this "line" of argument is that you assert that America claiming the moon like some brat in a sandbox is BAD whereas the rather less socially conscious Chinese government doing so would be less bad.
      I would also like you to justify the claim you made about Bush cutting NASA spending. Even if he did, I would say NASA needs a bit of redirection, as their big spendy program, the ISS, accomplishes nothing. I built all 20 of the Space Station Emergency Lighting Power Supplies and battery packs. It kept me employed for 3 years. But really, it doesn't do anything up there. At least giving them a goal accomplishes something. In the past, setting goals lit the fires under our scientific community and got development of new tech started. Even if we fail, it's better to fail with a goal than to meander aimlessly with a multibillion dollar budget.

  • Chinese space officials were "shocked" the United States had not done more to welcome them into the small community of space-faring nations, a leading U.S. expert said last month after a trip to China.

    Space coorperation is one of the few cards the US has left to play against China's authoritarianizm and human rights abuses. They are in the WTO but practice slave labor. They are belligerent to Taiwan. They prop up a monster in North Korea.

    The US has nothing to gain technologically by cooperating. I

  • Chinese space officials were "shocked" the United States had not done more to welcome them into the small community of space-faring nations
    Shocked? I'm not.

  • It's Expensive (Score:5, Informative)

    by solarlux ( 610904 ) <noplasma@@@yahoo...com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:29PM (#9186616)
    Announcing plans is certainly easier than carrying them out. Cancellations (and cost overruns) have plagued every space program developed in our short "space age".

    As an employee for a large aerospace corporation, I'm beginning to recognize why space is so difficult. On the parts level, parts must be "space-qualified", which limits selection to a few choice vendors who, in applying rigorous mil-spec requirements to parts testing and screening, mark-up the price 15x. The only alternative is privately "up-screen" the part according to program requirements, which is also a lengthy and time-consuming process. When dealing with space, so many new concerns must be addressed. Radiation effects, outgassing, vibration impact from launch, severe thermal excursions, redundancies, etc. Each hi-tech subcomponent has to be built twice -- one for flight and one for intense qual unit testing. Close scrutiny of reported industry design flaws must be adhered to. There's been quite a stir relating to some flawed algorithms in Actel FPGAs.

    Anyway, my point is that space is difficult and costly -- as evidenced once again by this cancellation. My primary fear is that the USA lacks the monetary dedication to see such a large and bold endeavor as the moon/mars mission through to fruition. As for me, I'm just hoping the TPF and JWST survive.

  • instead of a Mars shot... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    we need to work on getting industrial capacity in orbit.
    • That is what I have been saying for years. Although it might not make a lot of sense to invest money into light industry, U.S. should try to bring back heavy industries back to the competitive levels.

  • They Realized That Space Exploration Is Worthless (Score:3, Insightful)

    by $criptah ( 467422 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @03:13PM (#9187205) Homepage

    China has a lot of problems that must be taken care of prior going to the Moon. Unfortunately, so does the United States.

    Being a geek and a vivid phyiscs fan, it hurts me when I see space missions cancelled. However, I am a human being as well; I realize that there are billion dollar price tags associated with these goals. It is wise not to spend money if you cannot afford doing so, wouldn't you agree? If we *really* want to continue space exploration, maybe we should stop world-wide safaris first.

    I really hope that the United States comes to the same conclusion and stops hoping to be the first on Mars. It would be nice if we spend more money on education and creation of affordable healthcare. Once we get these -- and many other things -- fixed, we shall fly. For now, I'll read science fiction and dream.

  • Was a manned mission to the moon ever planned? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hnjjz ( 696917 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @03:32PM (#9187490)
    When were the Chinese ever planning a manned mission to the moon? I've been following the Chinese space program quite closely and all the official reports coming out of China concerning a moon mission either explicitly talk about sending an unmanned lunar lander or only vaguely mention a moon landing in general without stating whether or not it's a manned mission or not. I think space enthusiasts in the West have been reading far too much into some of the vaguely translated reports with wishful thinking, with arguments on which verb was used in the report and how that implies a manned landing when in fact reading the original Chinese reports (yes, I do read Chinese), it's pretty clear that it has always been planned as an unmanned mission. The CNN article is spinning this as a major change in policy, but would something like this be announced through a gathering of highschool students?

    Wang told a gathering of high school students on Sunday

  • ...that's a moon!

  • space cooperation (Score:3, Funny)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @05:46PM (#9189447) Homepage Journal
    The Moon is about 356,614Km [att.net] from the Earth at closest approach. China is home to about 1.3B people [library.uu.nl]. A column of Chinese people, stacked in "human triangles" sitting on one another's shoulders (1m high), would reach the moon, leaving over 230M people [google.com]. Half to clamber up (then down) to the Lunar surface, at a rate of about 1Km:h, reaching the surface in about 20 years [google.com], splitting their population evenly between the planets in under 4 years [google.com]. And they only have to scale up their acrobat budgets, not that risky American rocket science.

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