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Roswell Declassified 467

Posted by michael from the agent-mulder dept.
John3 writes "Scotland may be the most popular UFO destination on the planet, but Roswell, New Mexico is the old favorite for government conspiracy buffs who believe the US government has been hiding proof of an alien spacecraft crash in 1947. Popular Mechanics has recently gained access to de-classified documents from the Roswell military base, and they contain no entries of unusual events or activity. I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists?"
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Roswell Declassified More

Roswell Declassified

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  • I don't know... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Daath ( 225404 )
    The Truth Is Out There... And besides... I Want To Believe ;-)

  • It won't :) (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zaqattack911 ( 532040 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:00PM (#6201672) Journal
    Conspiracy theorists are only fed by government denials. Look what happened to NASA when they started to talk back at Moon landing doubters.

    zuchini

    • Re:It won't :) (Score:2, Insightful)

      by chamenos ( 541447 )
      exactly....conspiracy theorists tend to believe whatever they want to believe irregardless of the facts that may speak otherwise. the declassification of documents will just be interpreted as an attempt by the government to throw them off.

    • Re:It won't :) (Score:2, Interesting)

      by oogoliegoogolie ( 635356 )
      That is frustrating, but not suprising. A significant percentage, into the double digits if I remember correctly, of people in industrialized countries still think the world is flat, so it I am not suprised that there are ppl out there that think the moon landings are fake,

    • Re:It won't :) (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Conspiracy theorists all work for the government. Don't listen to them.

    • Re:It won't :) (Score:2, Interesting)

      by HanzoSan ( 251665 ) *


      You dont have proof we landed on the moon just like you dont have proof that flying saucers exist, Pictures and Video are not proof. I also do not think its wise to blindly trust the government, this includes NASA.

      Come to your own conclusions, if you think its a realistic possibility that flying saucers exist than they exist. I think its a realistitc possibility that they exist, whos making them is debateable, but I believe the pictures and video footage, I also dont believe millions of people would lie.

      • Re:It won't :) (Score:3, Interesting)

        by heli0 ( 659560 )
        I also dont believe millions of people would lie.
        They don't have to be lying to be dead wrong. Ask someone what happens when you die. You will get answering ranging from pearly gates to 72 virgins to nothing. People have seen things in the skies for thousands of years. The only thing that changes is the explanations. We have gone from lights in the skies being gods(polytheistic societies) to angels(monotheistic) to aliens(atheistic).

      • Re:It won't :) (Score:5, Informative)

        by LastManOnEarth ( 681266 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @09:54PM (#6202105)
        Ok, Let's make a few points here... (1)Aliens can definitely exist. BUT... That doesnt mean they have to fly in saucers ,look humanoid, have interest in us, even develop sentience or technology. A microbe that is extraterrestrial is an "alien".You cant prove the ground under your feet isnt alive just because it hasnt proved itself to you that it is. And considering the bizaare circumstances that created life on earth was astrnomically rare (no pun intended :P)only created one sentient lifeform here that we know of the chance of meeting intelligent life in this universe is near null. (2) Id like to point out the trends of UFO sightings in past happen to coincide with alpha technology of the respective periods (ie. cigar shaped = jet/ boomerang = flying wing/ saucer previously mentioned)And due to angles and atmospheric conditions, man made sattellites that can be seen with the human eye from the ground tend to look distorted and move in odd directions. Notice that most modern footage is taken at dusk or dawn? Thats from sattellites being so far up they still are reflecting the sun and our atmosphere either squashes and/or stretches or even reflects it multiple times. This phenomenon is well documented and can be easily verified. Im not saying that all phenomena can be explained away so easily, but until we have proof (alien artifact/body/public first contact)I'll remain anchored to what logic seems to point too. That we are indeed alone as far as intelligent life and people are still desperately trying to find something to believe in.

        • Re:It won't :) (Score:4, Funny)

          by skroz ( 7870 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @10:07PM (#6202149) Homepage

          Thats from sattellites being so far up they still are reflecting the sun and our atmosphere either squashes and/or stretches or even reflects it multiple times.


          I just can't get the image of Will Smith saying "Uh, some swamp gas reflected off of venus, and uh..." out of my mind.

        • Re:It won't :) (Score:5, Interesting)

          by podperson ( 592944 ) on Sunday June 15, 2003 @02:04AM (#6202911) Homepage
          And considering the bizaare circumstances that created life on earth was astrnomically rare (no pun intended :P)only created one sentient lifeform here that we know of the chance of meeting intelligent life in this universe is near null.

          I recall one scientist suggesting that if you have life on a planet then intelligence is almost inevitable. After all, he pointed out, it's arisen independently three times on this planet.

          But then folks says lots of dumb things, especially when it's not exactly in their field of specialisation. I recall an interview quoting David Brin as saying "if there's life on other planets, we'll probably be able to eat it" -- a brave prediction given there's plenty of stuff on Earth we can't eat, either because it's poisonous or biologically alien to us (e.g. stuff outside the plant and animal kingdoms is frequently highly toxic).

          Pondering the probability of imponderables is good work if you can get it. Carl Sagan quotes what he admits is a very crude formula -- 1/10 stars has a planet, 1/100 (?) stars with planets has a habitable planet, 1/10 habitable planets has life, life always develops intelligence, intelligence always builds radio telescopes but only has a 1/10 chance of surviving the invention of nuclear weapons, etc. always seemed to me to be far more sketchy as it got to the right side of the blackboard.

          What are the odds that an alien intelligence will have a metabolism in our preferred timescale and thus be able to communicate with us in real time? What are the odds it will "see" and/or "hear" as we see and hear? Would an organism that sees with bat-like Sonar be able to convert a prime x prime grid of pixels into a recognisable image or set of symbols?

          Bat-like sonar is a sense possessed by a creature quite closely related to us using parts of a brain very similar to ours. Imagine how alien an alien brain connected to alien sense organs might be.

          Then there's the convergent evolution argument (exemplified by David Brin). DNA is obviously the best way to encode genes. Expect aliens made of cells, quite possibly with familiar proteins, carbohydrates, DNA etc. etc.

          And who knows, maybe silicon-based life is actually by far the easiest one to come by and we're remarkable in that our solar system appears to be devoid of it. But silicon life all lives much slower-paced lives than we do so we simply couldn't relate to it...

          By the way sentient i.e. "having a faculty, or faculties, of sensation and perception" is a rather low bar. There's a huge number of sentient creatures on Earth. If you're going for self aware, dolphins, gorillas, chimpanzees, elephants, dogs, and probably several other animals have demonstrated self-awareness.

          Id like to point out the trends of UFO sightings in past happen to coincide with alpha technology of the respective periods

          I think Weather balloons are well into beta by now...

          That we are indeed alone as far as intelligent life and people are still desperately trying to find something to believe in.

          To misquote Steve Martin: "With all the crazy superstitious people out there, I don't know what I'd do without my astrological mood-ring".

      • Re:It won't :) (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dissy ( 172727 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @10:46PM (#6202331)
        (snip) You dont have proof we landed on the moon (/snip)

        Well, we do have proof that we have sent craft to the moon.
        There is a flag on a pole that you can see with a powerful telescope, controlled by the same places that give us the wonders of technology we can see the outcome of on earth.

        There are also mirrors on the moon which you can use to reflect lasers back (Granted the hardware to do this is pricy, but 'anyone' can do it)

        Now, this just proves we have sent things up into space that ended up on the moon.
        Doesnt prove it was a person.

        But using your basic logic, if we have the technology to send a craft to the moon that can plant a flag and posistion mirrors, and return with samples from the moon, that exact same technology could very well hold a person inside as well.

        Its sorta like saying people dont fly fighter jets because you cant see the people when the planes fly overhead.
        While that is logically true, if you look at a jet, there IS room for a person in there, so its not at all improbable or impossible.

        But there is just no convincing some people i guess :)

        • Pickery of nits. (Score:3, Informative)

          by DoraLives ( 622001 )
          There is a flag on a pole that you can see with a powerful telescope

          Yes, we went to the moon.

          No, you can't see ANY of the stuff we left there with ANY telescope. Too small. Too far away. Good thing we also left the laser reflectors, huh.

          Carry on.

        • As others have said, the flag isn't visible from earth. Besides, why would you be looking for the flag, anyway? The base of the lunar lander is a hell of a lot bigger, as is the lunar rover that was used on the last missions.

        • Re:It won't :) (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Rxke ( 644923 ) on Sunday June 15, 2003 @07:49AM (#6203644) Homepage
          if you refer to the apollo 11 flag... it's not standing up anymore, Neil Amstrong himself saw it toppling over when they lifted off. I'm not kidding/trolling, you can go and look it up in the transcripts sections on the NASA website, so it must be true (if you believe they landed on the moon, you'll have to believe NASA on that account too ;) )
    • Since when do the paranoid (or even cynical) believe government documents that state everything has been running smoothly and everything has been uneventful? It's been a long time since the government has been able to do anything of importance without involving some incredible, expensive or absurdly stupid event, descision or fact?

      If these declassified documents are truly complete, there HAS to be a reason they were classified in the first place. SOMETHING interesting, out-of-the-ordinary or plain stupid

      • Re:Of course it won't... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by sebi ( 152185 ) on Sunday June 15, 2003 @06:15AM (#6203451)
        If these declassified documents are truly complete, there HAS to be a reason they were classified in the first place.

        Maybe the fact that Roswell, according to the article, was "home to the only atomic bomber unit (at Roswell Army Airfield) in the world" had something to do with it. We are talking 1947 here. The war has ended two years ago and the fight against commies is on. Could it be that all documents from that base were automatically kept secret? Were you able to look at the records from the 3rd of July 1947 before now? What about the 5th?
  • I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists?

    Don't be rediculous. Compared to everything else conspiracy theorists come up with, "sanitized" documents is completely believable.

  • deter or encourage (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Stinson ( 564450 ) <(ten.xoc) (ta) (etepsuorecnac)> on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:01PM (#6201681) Homepage Journal
    either this will deter conspiracists, or just give them a new argument that the government removed the unusual entries before declassifying them. There really will never be a way to prove that declassified documents aren't modified

  • Right (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Matthaeus ( 156071 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:01PM (#6201684) Homepage
    And the documents that were declassified were all the documents associated with Roswell, right? All unaltered? Hey, look over there!

    Not that I'm a rabid conspiracy theorist, but anybody who is willing to believe in a government coverup of that magnitude won't be pacified by a bunch of relatively easily-faked "declassified" documents.
    • The Government and the military don't have to fake it, all they have to do is reclassify it. When Frank Snepp III published "Decent Interval" and it had juicy secrets like we started negotiating with North Vietnam for POW's in 1971, and when we left in 1975 we left behind enough hardware to equip a 250,000 man army for 5 years! President Reagon signed legislation that allows the Government or military to reclassify previously unclassified materials on a whim (I can't remember off the top of my head what pa

    • Re:Right (Score:5, Insightful)

      by StarTux ( 230379 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @09:40PM (#6202060) Journal
      Considering Clinton was unable to hide his affair and that the F117 was also known well enough about I doubt, very much doubt anything of this magnitude could be hidden. Heck, even the Chinese stole nuclear secrets.

  • Heh (Score:2, Redundant)

    by Faust7 ( 314817 )
    de-classified documents from the Roswell military base ... contain no entries of unusual events or activity.

    No, really?

  • No closure here (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nukey56 ( 455639 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:02PM (#6201692)
    This is the equivalent of the government saying "no, sorry, nothing happened". Just because they realeased their "offical documents" doesn't mean that: A) they're true B) they're complete and most importantly C) they aren't counter-intelligence. Our government still has much to gain from having some sort of advanced technology. I suspect that once the world is dominated by one country, one culture, one affinity, that we will actually know the truth. But then again, the only proof may or may not be locked in a hanger somewhere, it's hard to tell.
    • I suspect that once the world is dominated by one country, one culture, one affinity, that we will actually know the truth.

      Ah, so the aliens brought weapons and Hollywood?

    • Re:No closure here (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ibennetch ( 521581 ) <bennetch@gmail.cCURIEom minus physicist> on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:15PM (#6201750) Journal
      But then again, the only proof may or may not be locked in a hanger somewhere, it's hard to tell.
      True, but the thing that I question (assuming "something" happened there, which I neither have an opinion on nor care about, this is just a mind-game) is the first-hand reports of the military and government personel who were involved -- especially in any cover-up. Here's what happens:

      - Something happens
      - "they" cover it up, remove all evidence and delete any documents reporting anything about "it"
      - Everyone invovled dies of old age (Roswell was what, fifty years ago -- another twenty or thirty years and no first-hand witnesses will be around)
      - No one ever finds out the truth

    • What an odd idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kfg ( 145172 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:55PM (#6201903)
      "I suspect that once the world is dominated by one country, one culture, one affinity, that we will actually know the truth."

      This is like saying that if there were only one newspaper we'd know the truth. Or that China is the paragon of open information.

      It is only through the maintenence of mulitiple sources of information, power and control that the truth can ever be known.

      KFG

    • Re:No closure here (Score:5, Funny)

      by Goalie_Ca ( 584234 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @10:40PM (#6202310)
      I really hope you don't mean the U.S. country/culture owning the world. They may try but they don't know that canada has a secret army stashed away in the rockies and a secret moonbase death star. You will all become Canadian. Muhahahaha!

  • All this means to the conspiracy theorists is that the military cleaned up the documents before they declassified them.

    -Todd

  • Will it deter conspiracy "theorists" ? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Infonaut ( 96956 ) <infonaut@gmail.com> on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:03PM (#6201698) Homepage Journal
    Uh.. no.

    Conspiracy theories are not really theories, in that they can never be disproved. The theory that the earth is flat can be disproved; the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved.

    Conspiracy theory is a belief system, and as such is highly resistant to facts.

    • Re:Will it deter conspiracy "theorists" ? (Score:5, Funny)

      by TummyX ( 84871 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:16PM (#6201757)

      The theory that the earth is flat can be disproved; the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved.

      I don't understand the difference between those two. How is it that you can prove the earth is flat but yet can't prove the goverment has been infiltrated by aliens?

      For example, how do you know that all the aliens in the government aren't faking all the evidence for the round earth? For all we know, all the evidence is just an illusion that is sustained by drugs the goverment puts in the drinking water.
      • > How is it that you can prove the earth is flat but
        > yet can't prove the goverment has been infiltrated
        > by aliens?

        Because a conspiracy theorist, by their nature, will fabricate new situations that will support their belief. "Oh okay this base has no aliens, but I bet there's a secret military alien base somewhere else", or "well this guy isn't an alien, but I bet that guy down the hall is".

        As regards the earth, this can be directly tested. In the extreme case, you can buzz up into orbit in a ro
      • I don't understand the difference between those two. How is it that you can prove the earth is flat but yet can't prove the goverment has been infiltrated by aliens?

        "Absence" proofs are pretty hard to furnish: prove there is no God. Prove there are no aliens. Prove there are no black swans. Prove there are no WMDs. It's impossible to produce a "lack" of each of those things that's expansive enough to be sufficiently encompassing. Generally prima faciea burdens fall on the person making a claim.

        (Although
      • The key word is `disprove' (not `prove').

        A good theory is one that can be tested, and if it's wrong, you can find out. This lets you gain confidence in its accuracy or lack thereof.

        Conspiracy `theories,' though, simply define any negative evidence (or lack of positive evidence) as part of the conspiracy. IOW, they're sort of true-by-definition, regardless of any evidence; they sort of squirm around to avoid reality. That squirminess makes them fun (I think!), but not very useful for saying anything abo
        • Exactly. I have a problem with the example which asserted that you couldn't test that the goverment is run by aliens. Why can't you disprove the government is run by aliens? Any reasons that you can come up with I could apply in the same way to disproving the world is round.

    • Re:Will it deter conspiracy "theorists" ? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Blondie-Wan ( 559212 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:19PM (#6201769) Homepage
      the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved. Conspiracy theory is a belief system, and as such is highly resistant to facts.

      What a coincidence - so are the highest levels of government.

      ;)

    • the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved.

      Of course it can't be disproved. Mostly because they have.

    • the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved

      No, but I can prove conclusively that if they are aliens, they're not advanced aliens.

  • they have conspiracies about everything. they NEED to have some conspiracy to fantasize about. they'll use this post that i'm writing right now as ammunition FOR conspiracies (why else would i attempt to debunk them)

    these people don't even think that their apples are safe from tracking devices, not even the ones they grow themselves.

    some people just NEED to believe that they're being lied to. On a grand scale. Just like some people need to drive cars with neon under them, some people need attention in

  • Conspiracy theorists. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Montreal Geek ( 620791 ) <marc@u b e r b ox.org> on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:05PM (#6201707) Homepage Journal
    I think the poster misses the point about how conspiracy theorists think entirely.

    If the files show no information about anything odd happening, then of course it means they were cleaned to hide the truth. The fact that there is no proof of their pet theory is proof that there was a cover up to hide it.

    This is the reason why those kooks annoy me so much; it's not that they beleive in a complicated, contrived scenario so much as they use the lack of proof for their delusion as proof of correctness. Making them, by definition, immune to logic or facts.

    This is probably going to hurt my karma to dare say so, but one cannot help but notice the parralel with most religious beleif systems.

    I guess the bad-guy-of-faith has been transposed from satan to some illuminati for those who feel the need to explain life by intervention deus ex machina rather than accept its unpredictability.

    -- MG


    • > If the files show no information about anything odd happening, then of course it means they were cleaned to hide the truth.

      Some will take the lack of mention of aliens as proof that the aliens are real.

      I think I'm going to have to lurk on sci.skeptic for a few days. This should be good.

    • Well, I've also got Karma to burn, so...

      It's also a lot like /.
      Report on the things you believe on (pro-OSS, anti-MS), avoid linking to things that go against that belief system, and report unconfirmed rumours (ie. Michael Robertson saying Microsoft were selling WinXP for $50 to Lindows customers, later refuted) as fact.

      It's really hard to see the difference between /., religious extremists and conspiracy theorists. All 3 will make sure the "facts" line up with their beliefs, regardless of what is really
    • I believe in God because the Bible tells me so.

      The Bible is true because it is the word of God.

      What? Why are you looking at me like that? It makes perfect sense!
      • What if the bible had a disclaimer:
        The following text was made up by a bunch of drunk pimps in the desert who one day decided to become rich and powerfull by starting a religion. This text is not true though it may be based on "some" historical fact. The content of this book does not reflect the views and/or beliefs of the publisher, merely those of the author/conartist.

  • Fake (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nEoN nOoDlE ( 27594 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:07PM (#6201712)
    Those de-classified reports are obviously fake. The real UFO documents will never be de-classified due humanity's inability to deal with Extra-Terrestrial life on this planet.

    Well, all personal conspiracy theories aside, why would this stop anyone from making up conspiracy theories? No one in their right mind would believe that the government would declassify documents that they feel could be damaging to themselves or the US public. Are they gonna declassify that they shot JFK (if they did) even 100 years from now? I think not.
    • Are they gonna declassify that they shot JFK (if they did) even 100 years from now? I think not.

      There have been many instances where declasified government documents have looked especially bad.

      Yes, many things have come to light through FOIA requests, but they just don't seem to cause any stir at all. Maybe few people find the surprises of 50 year-old history to be non-issues, or maybe the news media is run by the CIA, and they don't want to cover those stories.

    • Re:Fake (Score:3, Interesting)

      by dvdeug ( 5033 )
      No one in their right mind would believe that the government would declassify documents that they feel could be damaging to themselves or the US public.

      It's documented that the CIA tried to kill Castro with explosive cigars, that they tested LSD on unsuspecting subjects, that they withheld syphilis treatment for a group of black subjects for decades as part of a study. The government isn't monolithic, and has regular turnover on people, between politics and just plain old age. And between basic honesty, v
  • When I was an undergrad, all my CS profs (some people in math, too) at UCSC got hand-written letters from this fellow, who happened to be in prison, claiming that he was recieving encoded, telepathic transmissions from the spider-like aliens who had landed at Roswell. He couldn't understand them, and he wanted help "decoding" the transmissions.

    Fortunately, we can reassure the fellow that no such aliens exist, now that we have a crate full of declassified documents. This must be a great relief to all of the countries paranoid schizophrenics. I bet hardly any of the text has been blacked out!
  • Destroy the conspiracy theories? I think not!

    You guys just all wait untill the Bildeberg Group [bilderberg.org] unleashes Space Gozilla [250x.com] to finally rid us of the Nazi UFO's [angelfire.com]! Then we will all know who killed JFK [mu.edu] and you puny mortals will finally believe that the Moon Landings [moonmovie.com] were all a hoax!

    Give up on conspiracy theories? Yeah right!
  • The whole theory behind the conspiracies is that the government is hiding something. Therefore the conspiracy theorists will refuse to believe anything that says that aliens have not visited Earth.

    I find it highly unlikely that aliens do not exist. For as Douglas Adams said, we live in an infinite universe where anything is possible. The shear immensity of the universe allows the possibility for extra-terrestrial life to exist, and it would be rather sad if all of those stars we see at night had empty plan

  • Chop chop! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Faust7 ( 314817 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:13PM (#6201737) Homepage
    During the 1990s, the time limits on keeping Cold War-era records began to expire.

    And thus the Ministry of Truth went into overdrive, scrambling to correct everything before its final release...
  • I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists.
    What do you think? Will people who write stuff like this [abovetopsecret.com] or list Alien UFO Base Locations [karinya.com] will think that is the truth?
    I think not. :-D
  • I honestly believe that you could take a conspiracy theorist to the moon and show them the footprints, they would say they were faked by a sophisticated robot.

    Talking to them only makes them come up with even stupider theories. The only way to win against them is not to play their game.
    • > The only way to win against them is not to play
      > their game.

      The skeptics do have a bit of responsibility, however, to educate those in the middle ground with the truth.

      A great example of this is the bad astronomy site. Does it stop the conspiracy theorists? Of course not, that's not what it's there for. It exists for the folks who don't have the background separate fact from fiction and give them a reasonable counterpoint to the conspiracy theories.

      You can't ignore these people any more than you

  • Consipracy nuts... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Realistic_Dragon ( 655151 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:17PM (#6201760) Homepage
    Lets face it, if the g'ovt produced an alien and said 'this one turned up last week' the conspiracy theorists would assume that it was only as a distraction to hide something of even bigger importance.

    We will never be rid of them - just like we will never be rid of Open Source naysayers, BSD is dead trolls and other assorted kooks.

  • John3: to answer your question.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by wowbagger ( 69688 ) * on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:18PM (#6201764) Homepage Journal
    John3 (the story submitter) wrote:
    I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists?


    Having read the first few posts on this story, do you consider your question answered?

    NO answer from the government, nor indeed from anybody will quiet the conspiracy theorists:
    • "Here's all the documents on the base - see, no unusual activity."
      "Yeah, like you'd release the REAL documents rather than these forgeries!"
    • "Here's the documents - something landed, but we aren't sure what. Here's all the info we have."
      "SURE that's all the info you had - see, we told you there were hiding something, and they still are!"
    • "Greetings people of Earth. I am the ambassador from the Galactic Federation. Now that you have achieved the required levels of societal and technological advancement, we are allowed to make contact. Yes, you in the back..."
      "Have any aliens landed on Earth before this?"
      "No, that is completely forbidden under our laws."
      "SURE nobody else landed here - YOU ARE COVERING IT UP!"
      "Perhaps we jumped the gun on your societal evolution...."

  • COVER UP! (Score:5, Funny)

    by isa-kuruption ( 317695 ) <kuruption@kurupti[ ]net ['on.' in gap]> on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:21PM (#6201778) Homepage
    These documents are from Area 57... they just whited out the horizontal part of the 7 so you THINK they are real!!!

  • Everybody, I mean, nobody knows the real crash took place 100 miles north of Fairbanks, Alaska in 1978 [jackfic.com].
  • Why should anyone believe reports that the government declassifies?? If there really were an alien spacecraft there, what's stoping them from "declassifying" forged documents??

    Disclaimer: I'm not saying I believe anything...
    • The only things they have to declassify are things the government "is aware of". IE, if there are internal memos and reports, they never got out into the rest of the military proper, were never compartmentalized, and thus are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

      Of course they filed normal, routine, daily-business of running a base type reports which were promptly given document control numbers and filed away. But I bet a lot of that is faked at ANY base to keep budget projections looking good. So


  • How accurate are the documents? Are the documents 100% complete, or are parts of it blacked out?

    Until we have these documents in complete form theres no way to know, I've seen documents straight from the government mentioning saucers, and I've seen documents from the government saying weather balloons, and then theres documents which talk about top secret military projects.

    Ultimately the government will never tell the public if they saw a UFO, the people wouldnt be able to handle it. So if there are UFOs

  • Roswell Log Files!!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Chromodromic ( 668389 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @08:30PM (#6201816)

    July 4, 1947

    Cpt D Anderson, Dty Ofcr
    Base Log Entry

    HOLY FUCKING SHIT! UFO landed today!!! Aliens look like Gumby dolls with big heads!!! Jesus, they're ugly!

    As if this shit isn't enough, there's some guy hanging around all day smoking cigarettes like they're going to be illegal tomorrow. He says he's "in charge". Whatever. I'm out in two months anyway.

    Also found: Advanced weaponry, an anti-gravitational drive, a cure for cancer, and alien porn! It's revolting, but I'm strangely aroused.

    NSA ADDENDUM: Please strike all this shit out. This is supposed to be a secret. Cpt. Anderson, please see me.

    Well, slow day here today. Nothing happened, nope, no sirree, not a bit, quiet here, yup, quiiieeeeet.

  • I don't believe in conspiracies. But i believe that the government would give out tampered files, if there would be something real to hilde in it.

    So although i don't think that a UFO landed on Area 51, i still am not sure, if i should trust documentes released by a government. We are lied to everyday, by politics and government. So although no aliens landed on Rockwell, maybe some other interesting stuff happened there. Who knows.
  • They have gone thru this before, claming to have disclosed everything.. until the next 'full disclosure'. Bah cant trust em..

    It was all just a government research experiment gone awry.. but we will never hear the complete truth of the projects out there..

  • /me puts his tinfoil hat on so that everyone will know I'm telling the truth...

    The "Morning Reports" indicate that nothing happened. Of course no staff duty log or "Morning Report" would contain any classified information. If something was accidently added, that log would have been rewritten within a day. The governement change their story the next day. What would keep them from changing any daily logs?!?

    /me goes to check the supplies in the fallout shelter

    These documents only prove the the govern

  • I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists?

    Not if the government secretly withheld the entries pertaining to the aliens. I think as more and more evidence is released against them, they'll scream "cover up" more and more.
  • Interesting how Roswell and the entire UFO cover-up can be brushed off by some with the simple expident of calling those who want the facts conspiracy theorists. Even though the gouvernment openly spent many millions investigating UFO's, both before they officially canceled Project Blue Book and after, there must be nothing to it because the gouvernment denies it.

    And the assination of Kennedy and the shooting of Martin Luthor King Jr., anyone who questions if the government was involved must be a nutcase.

  • Not everything is declassifed by definition (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    from the NISPOM (National Industrial Security Program Operating Manual)...

    http://www.dss.mil/isec/nispom_0195.htm

    Duration Of Classification:

    Declassification is the authorized changing of information from classified to unclassified. When information is originally classified, the classifier must now attempt to identify a date or event upon which the information will be declassified. The standard in this Order is that information should normally remain classified for no longer than 10 years. But the Or

  • Why rebuke conspiracy theories? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Fefe ( 6964 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @09:08PM (#6201949) Homepage
    Every culture needs myths, fairy tails and mysteries. America needs it's own Loch Ness.

    And it's good for the government, too! These kooks wasting their time on area 51 won't have any time left to poke around in current conspiracies [lpdallas.org]. And the more really outlandish conspiracy theories are out there, the less likely the outlandish conspiracies that actually happen [slashdot.org] are, so nobody will believe them.

    If we really had obtained alien technology, why would we still pollute our ecosystem to get from A to B? You'd think we wouldn't need to burn fossils any more for transportation.
  • Of course this won't deter the conspiracy theorisits. The very nature of the conspiracy theory is the belief that the government (or whoever) is hiding facts or changing facts around before they are released to the public. Hence...the "release" of these "de-classified" documents to the public will probably only fuel the fire more. Shall we ponder all the different conspiracies that will probably come out of this release alone?

  • Put your tin foil hats away, please (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stwrtpj ( 518864 ) on Saturday June 14, 2003 @09:30PM (#6202028) Journal

    Rather than replying to a whole bunch of tin foil hat brigade posts, I'm going to combine what I know of the case into one post. In my younger and more foolish days, I was a UFO nut and soaked up every account of alien visitors. As I got older, I started looking at many of the facts of the case in a more objective light.

    The conclusion I have come to is that the Roswell case is a conglomeration of multiple accounts of unrelated occurences occuring over the span of ten years that were later cobbled together into a single, misinformed account.

    There is one very important fact that needs to be made clear about the entire Rosewell bru-ha-ha. A lot the publicity for it, namely the theory that an alien spacecraft crashed there, did not come about until well after the incident. In fact, it was not until as late as 1978 that alien bodies were ever associated with the incident.

    So, bearing this in mind, here are some of the little factoids about the case that appear to have perfectly logical explanations:

    • The little alien bodies - For some time durintg the late 1940s and early 1950s, the USAF conducted a series of tests which involved shoving anthropomorphic dummies out of planes from high altitude, usually to test parachute equipment. These dummies often wound up in people's farms. Not only did the USAF not cover this up, they encouraged people to report the location of these dummies, and even paid rewards for them. No coverup here. This is all documented.
    • The alleged bits of alien spacecraft scattered over the landscape - The oft-repeated refrain from the tinfoil hat brigade is that the government claimed that this was a weather balloon. This term is a misnomer, and was never used by the USAF. This term was invented later. At the time of the alleged crash, the USAF had just started Project Mogul, which involved the launching of several high altitude balloons for various scientific experiments, including the effect of cosmic rays on living tissue samples. In fact, the very first such balloon crashed at about the time that the supposed alien ship crash happened. Once again, this is all well-documented, including the locations where these dummies we retrieved.
    • The living alien at the hospital - Many accounts of the incident involve an actual living alien being escorted by USAF personnel. The figure is discribed as having the characteric large head of other supposed accounts of aliens. This is yet another case of an unrelated event being tied to Roswell. In 1959, a Captain Dan Fulgham received a nasty head injury that caused a massive hematoma. As a result, his face and head swelled to grotesque proportions. Even his own wife didn't recognize him at first. Documented. No coverup.

    Ok, this post is long enough. There are lots of other little factoids from the case (the so-called "Missing Nurse", the alleged "red-headed captain" that threatened people if the said anything, etc) that I could go into, but all of these facts can be found with a little investigation.

    But I can predict the responses now: "The government planted those other stories to throw us off the trail!" "They're feeding disinformation to us.!" Bull-fucking-shit. Check your history, people. The US government sucks at covering up anything of importance. Anything that remains classified now from that long ago, it's largely because no one considers the information important.

    Finally, here's another one for you: You say we recovered advanced alien tech. You say we recovered alien bodies. Then tell me: Where the hell is this technology? 56 years is a hell of a long time. We've gone from vaccuum-tube ENIAC that fills a room to a 2.6 gigahertz PC that sits in your lap. If we can't in that space of time figure out what made any alleged UFO from Roswell tick in that space of time, then either it never happened, or the government scientists are all idiots. And don't claim that things like stealth tech resulted from alien technology. Give humanity credit for be

    • Half-Baked. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Fantastic Lad ( 198284 )
      This guy, (probably through laziness), uses here a technique which masters in the art of counter intelligence and social programming long ago discovered to be highly effective. --That is, drop a few sort-of related factoids, and the minds of the target audience, (which are already eager to believe in the comfy Learning Channel version of reality), will happily assume that there is both causation and effect where none really exists. They then go back to sleep before any glimmer of scary thinking can occur.

    • We've gone from vaccuum-tube ENIAC that fills a room to a 2.6 gigahertz PC that sits in your lap. If we can't in that space of time figure out what made any alleged UFO from Roswell tick in that space of time, then either it never happened, or the government scientists are all idiots

      Where do you think the computer technology came from?

    • Manhattan Project (Score:3, Insightful)

      by sprayNwipe ( 95435 )
      The US government sucks at covering up anything of importance.


      I'd say that they managed to hide the development and creation of a nuclear weapon, on a project with thousands of staff, pretty well.

      The problem with alien life is that there can never be any proof to say it never happened - after all, you can't prove nothing. The only way this would ever be resolved is if the US Government did end up doing something in Roswell, and then admit it sometime in the future.

  • I have a simple question for the believers: (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Artifex ( 18308 ) on Sunday June 15, 2003 @12:23AM (#6202622) Journal
    Why haven't any corrupt government officials made money off the technology, yet, if this is true?

    Why haven't we seen huge revolutionary leaps in technology beyond what we'd expect with Kondratiev and other cycles, instead of just jumps along an evolutionary scale?

    Sure, they could keep it secret for a while, but 60 years later is a long time.

  • one thought (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mpost4 ( 115369 ) * on Sunday June 15, 2003 @01:40AM (#6202867) Homepage Journal
    Is just not possable that alians have never come to earth, even if they exist, which I don't know one way or the other, and don't care.

    I just say if they exist more power to them, if they don't oh well no big deal.

    If I were to be asked if I belive that they exist I would say, it is posable given the massive size of universe, so why not? But do I think they have come to earth, I would say no, and if they did they would not come just to give some hillbillys anal probs, or draw circles in fields, or turn cows insideout. That would seem to be a waist of time and effort to come to earth for a few pranks. But who knows they might be among us, sorry I could not resist that one.

  • It Took Them 56 Years to do What? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Sunday June 15, 2003 @02:07AM (#6202921)
    It took them 56 years to say that nothing happened. Yeah, right.

    Sorry, but we know people they threatened there at the time. And believe me, they did an excellent job of scaring the people there over what? A weather balloon? Pleeeeze.

    And to those of you who claim it there is no secret because the government couldn't keep such a secret so long -- What Secret?!?! This has been leaking out all over the place for years. Think a little bit, folks.

    • It took them 56 years to say that nothing happened. Yeah, right.

      Ask a Pentagon official about something classified. Go ahead. Try it. The answer you get will be along the lines of "We can neither confirm nor deny..."

      If they said, "Well, I guess it won't hurt this time to tell you that nothing really much happened at Roswell, and we classified our investigation because we were embarrassed to waste all that time and money..." What would you think? The next time you ask a question and don't get more

      • we classified our investigation because we were embarrassed to waste all that time and money..." What would you think?

        I'd think cover-up. Whether incompetance, or actually what is alledged, I'd say I'm not getting the straight story.

        And as I said before, I do know items were found that have not been explained yet.

  • Real cover-ups (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Sunday June 15, 2003 @02:40AM (#6202983) Homepage
    Here are some real events in the US that were covered up:
    • DuPont family member sets up secret training camps for paramilitary forces in preparation for a coup against Pres. Roosevelt. (1934)
    • US Explorer space satellite program was a cover story for spy satellites. (1960s)
    • The "Tonkin Gulf attack" used by Pres. Johnson to justify the Vietnam War never happened. (1964).
    • Bush crony involved in massacre of gold miners in Tanzania. [salon.com] (1996)

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