Virtual Reality Schizophrenia Simulation 54
DrunkenTerror writes "NPR is reporting this story about a virtual reality schizophrenia simulation developed by Janssen Pharmaceutica, a company that makes a drug for schizophrenia. The simulation (seen through a VR HMD) lets the user experience the world through the eyes and ears of a person with schizophrenic illness. The rig was designed as an education tool for doctors and others who want a more visceral understanding of the illness. The voices in the RealAudio slideshow are really overwhelming. Janssen is said to be considering converting the VR content to DVD for wider release. Helloooooo, future of trip-hop!"
Please enter the room and stare at the strobe (Score:1)
Kill your kids...
Do it...
Do it...
Do it...
Wasn't that scary (Score:1)
Re:Wasn't that scary (Score:2)
Re:Wasn't that scary (Score:1)
I guess that's the point, you lose the ability to discern the real from the 'imagined'.
Re:Wasn't that scary (Score:1)
A few more voices (Score:1)
The game "Alice" (Score:1, Interesting)
The main story line is Alice is skitzo
It can get pretty fscked up
Re:The game "Alice" (Score:1)
Hmm (Score:2, Interesting)
Does anyone have these experiences? Are these anything to worry about? Or me just getting too tired, too much games, work, etc... and too less sleep? Or too much food? Any thoughts?
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
I had difficulties thinking straight
Of course, this was due to certain circumstances I won't discuss, but hey
Re:Hmm (Score:1, Interesting)
But with schizophrenics the images and scenerios from their pasts and from their imaginations are just as strong as the input from the sensorium. And those scenes come forth unheeded by the contexts of what is happening in the real world.
From analysis of my own dreams and thoughts, I sometimes wonder if we all live dual lives. One life we are aware of and is composed of our direct and explicit experiences, and the other is a stream of analogies that run just below the surface, mirroring the real world with abbreviations, shortcuts and summaries of past experiences.
When you sleep and dream, you get a look at this other world and it's lexicon of analogies you've constructed to keep track of things in the real world. Your life is probably much richer than what you can readily percieve.
Nice toy. (Score:3, Insightful)
The central issue of schizophrenia isn't any wacked out psychedelic VR trip. It's more like a constant daydream, except that it's utterly impossible to distinguish between the dream and the real world. The hallucinations are idiosyncratic, coming from the psyche and experience of the individual in question... Frankly, I don't see what kind of value this research has to schizophrenic patients.
Re:Nice toy. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yours is probably the most insightful post in this article. This software is the result of a non-schizophrenic's insight into the world of schizophrenia, which he can only surmise from observations of patients as well as their own descriptions. At best it is a toy, just as you said.
This will have absolutely no research value, but will give non-schizophrenics comfort when they believe it allows them to "understand" what is happening in the mind of a schizophrenic patient.
I'm waiting for the anti-drug crowd to buy licenses for this product so they can "demonstrate" the effects of LSD and other drugs to fearful, impressionable parents.
Re:Nice toy. (Score:2)
sure you could simulate the "trails effect" you see when taking lsd, and maybe some of the patterns you see when you close your eyes, and the "swirling paint" effect that you see on textured walls, but people that take LSD don't see massive hallucinations. they don't see things that aren't there, they see things that are there differently.
The best description of an lsd visual would be from "fear and loathing in las vegas" the film based on the hunter thompson book, in a scene where the 2 guys had just taken
but at least for me the reason for taking as much lsd as i did in the past was not to "see cool hallucinations", but to think about things in a different way, see things from a different perspective, and it's this aspect (the dominant one) that would be impossible to simulate.
on a side note, i did lsd hundreds of times when i was younger, and now i have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder after a seriously bad trip. it's been 3 years since that trip and i get panic attacks and shit all the time. never did before that trip. so while i recommend using LSD, i don't recommend overusing it, and if it just doesn't feel right one night to drop acid, don't. drink a coffee instead of spending the whole night thinking your brain is about to explode. (there was no physical problem with my brain, it was just the thought process that lasd changed to make me feel like my brain was expanding beyond my skull)
More than a toy. (Score:3, Interesting)
The goal of the simulation is to educate the families and physicians of schizophrenic patients, giving them a realistic impression of what the patients endure. It's not going to be perfect, obviously, but it raises awareness and understanding.
Re:More than a toy. (Score:2, Insightful)
interviewed said it was realistic enough that he couldn't finish the simulation.
Again, I reiterate, the schizophrenics will be able to see that this is like schizophrenia because they have suffered from the disease, and they know what it is like. But there is no simulation that can even come close to showing non-schizophrenics what it is like. That is, the simulation may be quite realistic and disturbing to people who have schizophrenia, but that says nothing about how it affects people without schizophrenia, and how it demonstrates the illness to them.
To make the LSD analogy (which I shouldn't, but I will)... I might be able to show you a Winamp plug-in that looks very much like a visual hallucination that one might experience on acid. But that is completely and utterly different from knowing what it is like to be on acid. The only way to know is to have done it, just like the only way to know what schizphrenia is like is to have it. VR doesn't come any closer than a verbal description. The fact that we have people commenting on how "cool" the simulation is should give this fact away. Schizophrenics don't find it "cool," and many times find it to be wholly disturbing and unsettling.
Let me put it like this: Can I put you in a VR that will convince you that you are dreaming, a la the matrix? No. When you are awake, you know you aren't dreaming, and there is no sensory stimulation that can negate that. But it's just that kind of mechanism that we have to deal with to even talk about simulating schizophrenia. I stand by my original assertion. Considering most of the population still thinks that schizophrenics have multiple personalities, I don't see how the money spent on this VR project will help general awareness at all. This is a toy.
Re:More than a toy. (Score:1)
She had other problems too, things I am not even sure what they are.. some repressive thing also where you could have a conversation with her and walk into the next room in the middle of the conversation. A few minutes later she would not remember the conversation or how she got in the room.
The wierdest thing is how well she adapted to all her problems... nothing seemed strange or abnormal to her. She said some things were unsettling to her at times but she didn't concern herself about it.
Anyway, she did later get diagnosed but she has refused all forms of treatment. We can't get her commited because she has never caused harm to herself or anyone else. But she is in pretty messed up shape these days, I haven't talked to her in awhile.
The thing I am concerened about is my daughter, who is 3 now. I am told that schizophrenia skips generations so I don't have to be concerened about my daughter.... but how do I explain to her the risk of her having kids?
Oh well
Re:More than a toy. (Score:1)
Sounds more like DID (Dissasociative Identity Disorder) -- you know, MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) which was renamed and incorporated under a spectrum of DIDs. . lots of MPDs often get misdiagnosed as schizophrenic.. however, the two disorders are quite different. That whole "repressive thing" and the adaptation and the "unsettling things" seriously point towards DID rather than schizophrenia. Look it up in the DSM-IV (Diagnostic Statistical Manual (?) of the American Psychiatric Association), or elsewhere.
BTW, women can have sex or have their hymens broken (for whatever reason) and still have some of it remaining, thusly at a later date have it broken further thus causing bleeding. There are also other reasons why a woman might bleed during or after sex. Also, while I don't know all the details of this alleged rape.. there are other ways that a woman can be raped, not to mention, just because one is raped doesnt mean full penetration took place for whatever reason.
BTW, I don't think there is any real basis to "schizophrenia skips generations" I think it "runs in families" rather than "skips generations". It's just a matter of a genetic predisposition to something. You don't need to explain to her "the risk of her having kids" it's not like if her mom had cancer, her kid would get cancer. It doesn't work that way.
You know, I probably could/should find www references for these things, but I'm too tired.. you'll just have to either look it up somewhere [google.com] or take my word for it.
Re:More than a toy. (Score:2)
Note I used the terms "realistic impression" and "raise awareness". I don't contend that someone who has experienced the simulator knows what it's like to have schizophrenia any more than spending a day in a wheelchair makes someone understand what it's like to be paraplegic. For some people, a picture is more effective than a verbal description. If the simulator helps a physician relate to his patients better than just having a clinical knowledge of the symptoms, or, as the NPR segment mentions, teaches a friend or family member that a schizophrenic patient can't "just ignore" the sensory input, then it is a worthwhile pursuit. In your last sentence you mention that most people think schizophrenia is multiple personality disorder. If this "toy" helps a large segment of the population recognize what schizophrenia actually is, then doesn't that make it worth pursuing?
Fantastic Idea (Score:1, Insightful)
I think this is just another step in understanding mental illness.
try this. (Score:1)
Vuja De (Score:1)
They had something similar in the 60's. It was called "LSD".
Re:Vuja De (Score:2)
Mmmm. Pscholicious.
Re:Vuja De (Score:2)
For real. Ever notice how only people who have never done LSD make it obvious when they speak about LSD? I'm really surprised he didn't mention flashbacks, jumping from rooftops, and various other myths held by LSD virgins.
Re:Vuja De (Score:2)
I would note that "one trip fits all" is also often not the case. It affects different people differently. Thus, your personal experiences may not match that of others.
Re:Vuja De (Score:2)
Do you remember the name of the architect, or at least the country where this took place? Sounds too human to happen in America; my guess would be Scandinavia or Holland.
Really FUcked UP (Score:1)
Re:Really FUcked UP (Score:1)
MOI? (Score:1)
And also, it seems like everything the voices say is negative. Are they any conditions like schizophrenia where instead of downing you constantly, the voices help you?
If there is, the voice is probably 'Jesus', but other than that, I'd like to know.
OK Simulation - Not Quite Right Though (Score:3, Interesting)
Better solution. (Score:2)
Myself, after watching this movie I could totally understand what a schizophrenic goes through and why they would resist tooth and nail, letting go of their fantastic hallucinations. Not only are these hallucinations as real to them as reality is, but the fact of the matter is that some of the people they imagine could well be their best friends. Not to mention the other nasty side effects of the drugs that make them go away.