NASA To Shoot Comet With Copper Projectile 123
Max Entropy writes: "I can't make this up, guys. NASA plans to shoot a comet with a copper missile according to this article from Reuters' Chilean bureau. It says: 'In January 2004, a rocket would launch from Cape Canaveral, Florida, a spacecraft that would orbit the sun. In July 2005 the spacecraft would separate from a battery-powered, copper projectile that would collide with the comet 24 hours later at a velocity of 6 miles (10 km) per second....It would produce a crater the width of a football field and up to 100 feet (30 meters) deep.' They say that using copper will help get more accurate readings."
Re:What?! (Score:1)
But there's no excuse for this kind of brute force Rambo method of information gathering...
The simple fact that the universe works in such a violent manner, I think, supports this effort. Tests like these go a long way toward, not only learning about things that we know we don't know, but they help enforce the understandings that we think we know. Like it or not, if we are to survive well into the distant future, man must continue learn all we can. If we stop doing that, we become the worse virus the planet Earth has ever known.
"62 to 620 miles (100 to 1,000 km)" (Score:1)
Actually, what should a reporter write in cases like this one?
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Re:Nasa continues to wage unjust war on solar bodi (Score:1)
Re:What?! (Score:1)
The data gathered should be quite rich. you'll learn how the crater is formed and it's characteristics, the physical trajectery change after the impact, but most important IMHO, is how the comet is made of, and from that you can gather how the comet is formed. and after analyzing those you might have some good idea on solar system's history.
The solar system is not belong to us human only, it is part of the universe, how can you claim the solar system to be "owned" by a single life specie that only exist on 3rd rock from the sun? and We human were known to destroy the nature resource quite freely without any other consideration for the rest of the life forms on this little rock anyway.
Of course there's more expensive way of doing things, but at this age and time, COST is substantial, if not a deciding matter. I believe the predecessor of Deep Impact is Deep Space 4, which vist the same comet in the same frame of time, is canned because high project cost and high complexities(not sure which is more deciding though).
Shoot for the moon? (Score:1)
You shoot 1000000 men and you're a god.
You shoot 1 comet and you get an article on slashdot.
Re:What?! (Score:1)
Dude, that would be awesome! Remember: blowing shit up is fun!
Re:Comet probes earth (Score:1)
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More importantly (Score:1)
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Re:Wasn't this in 2001? (Score:1)
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Just barely measurable (Score:1)
I feel really safe now.
This isn't news - but it's a great idea. (Score:1)
NASA has been quite publically planning Deep Impact [umd.edu] for years. It's purpose is to reveal the presumably pristine, primordial layers of stuff underneath the heavily weathered top layers of the comet.
Comets get heavily damaged from outgassing every time they pass close to the sun, so it isn't like NASA's perpetrating some sort of crime here.
Re:US Foreign Policy moves to outer space... (Score:1)
Rubbish. Comet Tempel is just a freaking overgrown snowball. Deep Impact is no more an act of violence than is a geologist breaking a rock open with a hammer.
This is a troll. (Score:1)
Cross your fingers (Score:1)
a collission c(o)urse with our favorite planet.
Accurate readings by blowing things up (Score:1)
Funny, I claimed that blowing things up would obtain more accurate readings for my high school physics labs, but the teacher didn't give me extra credit. :(
Re:What?! (Score:1)
This comet as been orbiting for millions of years, and just because NASA wants to blow it up, we're going to fuck with it. It would be like blowing up a historic building just to see whats inside. It's a loss.
Don't ask me, it just feels wrong, but hey, I'm not the one doing it.
We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us.
Wasn't this in 2001? (Score:1)
not a bad prediction to make 30 odd years in advance.
v
Re:Many reasons for this experiment... but... (Score:1)
It betcha that if the same money were spent on a massive detection system and a puny deflection system versus the opposite case, the massive detection system would be x times more effective.
where x is an impressively large number. And the system could be used for scientific purposes as well. Of course, that wouldn't give us an excuse to build Really Large Nukes, so there you go.
Re:What?! (Score:1)
Matter's revenge!!
Links (Score:1)
notes on tempel1 here [cam.ac.uk] and here [amsmeteors.org]
Interesting [williams.edu] notes on deep impact
- Deep Impact FAQs [umd.edu]
- paranoia link [greatdreams.com] - suggests that the project's real, unpublished goal is to "miss" Tempel1 and intercept OX4, whose course with Earth in 2014, 2038, 2044 and 2046 is "possibly" an intercept.
Re:Nasa continues to wage unjust war on solar bodi (Score:1)
She used to be a silicone woman. Sheesh...
Pilot (Score:1)
Re:A small question... (Score:1)
Re:Just barely measurable (Score:1)
Now why would they want to waste... (Score:1)
Re:Are there *controlled* results? (Score:1)
Re:Just barely measurable (Score:1)
Re:Many reasons for this experiment... but... (Score:1)
For Our Survival (Score:1)
Re:Many reasons for this experiment... but... (Score:1)
This is just about the most important space mission we have ever done because it directly provides us knowledge to help us avoid our own armageddon.
Re:Many reasons for this experiment... but... (Score:1)
You shoot a high speed projectile at a comet, a chunk of the comet evaporates, looking at the spectrum one can figure out what the comet is made of.
Also note that asteroids and comets are have very little in common.
US Foreign Policy moves to outer space... (Score:1)
I know this is for scientific purposes, but doesn't the mere concept of the idea of "shooting" an object with a "projectile" carry the notion of violence with it?
Why start exploring yet another new world the same way humans have done so in the past - through violence?
Re:US Foreign Policy moves to outer space... (Score:1)
"U.S. scientists aim to blast a comet with a copper projectile to learn about the formation of the solar system as part of a $270 million project funded by NASA (news - web sites), the head of the project said on Tuesday.
The project, called Deep Impact and which will cause an explosion capable of destroying a small town, would be the first space mission to probe inside a comet, whose primitive core could reveal clues about evolution of the solar system."
It seems to me that language reveals the underlying psychology of how people envision a situation. For example, if I keep referring to Linux as "Open Source", it may be that I don't like RMS and consider him a communist. That is not what I think, btw, but it illustrates a point - people use langauge according to how they think and perceive issues. Glass half empty, glass half full.
So the language in the article is decidedly of a violent nature. I'm not a wussy and want to see the world hold hands - it just illustrates what seems to be the underlying psychology of a lot of people within the US, and especially government agencies, who always seem to express violent intentions.
Back to the point - Can we explore at least ONE new world without doing so at gunpoint - crushing things and people as we do it?
I think it's a relevant point to make.
Re:US Foreign Policy moves to outer space... (Score:1)
Re:What?! (Score:1)
This is not a new phase. Particle Physicists have been blowing stuff (really really small stuff) up for almost a century now.
-Erf C.
Re:Better there than here. (Score:1)
If we did somehow cause the moon's orbit to change, it could potentially leave g-lock and fly off as you have suggested. But if it did so, the moon would probably take many years to crash into another object, if its new orbit became stable.
But, of course, I learned all my astrophysics from Wesley Crusher while watching Star Trek: the Next Generation so my opinion doesn't count.
Please? (Score:1)
Please?
In a word: (Score:1)
Some more Info... (Score:1)
The impactor is going simply going to be dropped in the path of the comet. It will have no propulsive force of its own. The main probe will watch from a safe distance, and record the impact.
Copper was chosen for the impactor because they don't believe that the emmissions from it will interfere with what they expect to see, and even if it did the interference will be minimal. (Copper is apparently not very common in comets).
I forgot to ask the mass of the impactor, but it can't be more than a few tens of kilos due to launch costs. Since the comet's velocity is about 20km/sec at the chosen impact point, the impactor doesn't have to be going very fast, and because of the "drop in place" method it also doesn't need much in the way of guidance systems of propulsion, just good ol' Newtonian mechanics.
The overall shape of the probe has changed a few times, but I think that the final form is settled now. And as a further bit of trivia, many of the engineers working on this project are women.
Another way (Score:1)
- Amon CMB
It was all said 150 years ago... (Score:1)
in danger of being regarded as a loafer; but if he spends his whole day
as a speculator, shearing off those woods and making earth bald before
her time, he is esteemed an industrious and enterprising citizens As if
a town had no interest in its forests but to cut them down!"
- Henry David Thoreau "Life Without Principle," 1854, 1863 (4:457).
Re:Just barely measurable (Score:1)
Or, "Where once that comet may have hit the Earth, it might now miss the Earth by a small amount."
Space is huge. The Earth is very, very, very, very, small.
Re:Are you all mental? (Score:1)
But then you said: It's not an experiment to see if NASA can deflect comets
But the article says: The project also aims to see if scientists can alter the orbit of a comet to protect the Earth from falling matter. The impact would alter the comet's orbit by a ``just barely measurable'' 62 to 620 miles (100 to 1,000 km), A'Hearn said.
We interupt this thread for this breaking news... (Score:1)
After centuries of speculation on the existence of extraterrestrial life, first contact has been made. Unfortunately for humanity, our new visitors seem unfriendly. Thousands of comet-like spacecraft have taken up geosynchronous orbits around Earth. The craft are transmitting strange messages across a wide range of radio frequencies. Early translations seem to indicate that the alien craft are preparing to attack the planet in retaliation for an attack against one of their vessels. Government officials from all space faring nations are denying such an attack. World leaders are now scrambling to to avert war with the aliens, and quite possibly the destruction of the human race...
"We're doomed!" --C3P0
Abraxis
Oh man... (Score:1)
"And as NASA's bullet hits, we can see the comet move back...and to the left. Back...and to the left. Back...and to the left."
Cu (Score:1)
How much Cu are they planning on using anyway?
Enough that NASA has to give Chile first notice
Uh-Oh (Score:1)
Nasa continues to fail to delight and excite us. (Score:1)
On the other hand, the spectacle of viewing 100,000 meteors per hour might grind society to a halt for a day or so.
Re:What?! (Score:1)
Educate yourself before spewing all over yourself.
Nah, it's product placement (Score:1)
Re:Are there *controlled* results? (Score:1)
but then what if a heareby unknown comet hit this comet in 10 years time?
Re:galactic bowling (Score:1)
So I'd bet that a lots of eyes are going to look at the poor comet when they are going to give it it's copper penny.
OTOH having a closer witness is a good idea, since you have to haul all that copper, a few more silicon should make that much of a difference.
As for the hardness of the comet, believe me, at such speed snow or granit won't make such a difference, unless you are measuring at a really high frequency, wich is unlikely with such a far-travelling device. It is merely going to help you measure the nearby gravity fields, or if some comet gases are slowing you approach.
Them liberal environmental wackos... (Score:1)
Umm.... (Score:1)
Re:Comet probes earth (Score:1)
Re:Wasn't this in 2001? (Score:1)
Keyword: "also" (nt) (Score:1)
Re:US Foreign Policy moves to outer space... (Score:1)
Would you like it better if they used more technical terms?
Re:Better there than here. (Score:1)
Re:Better there than here. (Score:1)
It's one of those "it's possible but so highly improbable that it's probably not worth worrying about but we might as well play it somewhat safe anyway"
Better there than here. (Score:1)
But I have to say I'd rather they do it on a comet somewhere out there than on, say, the moon, which the
orbit shifting that it could potentialy cause would have unknown effects on Earth, and possibly other planets in
our solar system (somehow I'd rather not think about a slight bump that might push the moon on an intersecting
course with Mars thus causing more rock fragments than are already in our system that could suddenly wind
up destroying my home town, and possibly a wider area.)
Real Smart (Score:1)
Any Correlation? (Score:1)
Re:A small question... (Score:1)
I think they said something about a BB. I seem to recall them using the word "daisy". .188 caliber.....if I remember correctly.
Re:Nasa continues to wage unjust war on solar bodi (Score:1)
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
Re:Many reasons for this experiment... but... (Score:1)
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
Are you all mental? (Score:2)
Anyway, the spectral lines of the vapourized material can be analyzed to deterime the chemical composition of the interior of the comet.
It's not an experiment to see if NASA can deflect comets. If it was, it would be extremely limited because it would only consider the "solid" comets; not the ones that are just big piles of loose matter (of which there are many).
And the comet would probably lose all that matter anyway on it's trip around the run. When it goes back in the other direction, you likely wouldn't be able to see the football-field crater due to solar "erosion".
Helloooooooo.........
What about depleted uranium? (Score:2)
It makes scientific sense (Score:2)
Re:Just barely measurable (Score:2)
Reminds me... (Score:2)
Of course, this is quite different, but it still seems funny how the old ways come back.
Other forthcoming NASA research (Score:2)
Current research is exploring various exit strategies to ensure a safe return home. The estimated expenditure for this project is $50,000,000.04 and is expected to launch in 2008
Kevin Fox
Re:Comet probes earth (Score:2)
Dude, he said UNIX, not eunuchs.
Hope it's not too lake with those scissors.
Kevin Fox
Re:Cape Canaveral? (Score:2)
Re:What?! (Score:2)
Besides, if NASA learns something from this little exercise, I'm sure they would share the information with all of humanity. If someone else wants the comet so much, they should say so.
News Flash! (Score:2)
A copper missile initially intended to strike a comet has missed it's target NASA has revealed. It was subsequently caught in a nearby planets gravitational field and slingshotted onto a direct heading with Earth and is expected to wipe out most of the life in the northern hemisphere. NASA is taking a very scientific stance with this quote: "Ooops!".
Re:A small question... (Score:2)
The copper cylinder will weigh 500kg / 1,100 pounds, and will carry a camera and an infrared spectrometer. The targetted comet is Comet 9P/Tempel 1 [umd.edu].
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Re:Are there *controlled* results? (Score:2)
From Uni Maryland's FAQ (they're working with NASA on this project):
- Q: If the impactor split the comet, would any debris head towards earth?
As far as the effect on the orbit goes... well, the copper cylinder weighs 500kg and will be going 20,000 mph at the time of impact (source [nasa.gov]). And I guess I don't know the inertia of the comet, or the angle of impact. But from this picture [umd.edu], it looks like the comet will be pushed away from earth. But I guess if that brings it much closer to some other body, the orbit could change further?The orbit of Tempel 1 is at least 0.5 AU (about 46 million miles) from Earth's orbit at their closest points. There is absolutely no possibility of Tempel 1, the Deep Impact comet, getting near the earth. When comets fragment, the pieces also stay in orbits very similar to the orbit of the parent comet. Danger to the earth is from asteroids and comets whose orbits cross the earth's orbit. Tempel 1 never crosses the earth's orbit. The two orbits are totally separate and never cross each other. Tempel 1 can never be pulled into the earth's gravitational field at any time.
The Deep Impact impactor will just scratch the surface of the comet making a relatively small crater compared to the size of the comet. Even if the comet were to be extremely fragile and break apart, the pieces would still be in the same orbit and would never come close to the earth's orbit.
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A small question... (Score:2)
That info was missing.
Are there *controlled* results? (Score:2)
I'm specially curious about its new orbit; any chance that these scientists can knock it into a new trajectory which will collide with earth in about 70 years? Has anyone calculated this risk as well?
Re:What?! (Score:2)
Well ... why not? By all accounts, Mars is just a really big chunk of rock, and nobody's using it at the moment. One crater won't make much of a difference.
It's the same thing we always go through with environmentalists. There's no reason to be afraid of using natural resources. If we always hold off, afraid that we might damage something, we'll never get anything done. As long as the good (scientific data) outweighs the bad (nothing, as far as we know), we should consider it fair game.
That's nothing, check Rosetta (Score:2)
Rosetta will send probes to land softly on the surface of a comet. I've got a few friends on that project.
Re:Nasa continues to wage unjust war on solar bodi (Score:2)
between your sig here, the story & comments at hand and my crazy pre-workday grogginess, a wonderful notion has popped into my head- shooting the comet could be actual murder!
I've often suspected that the Oort cloud and the comets would be an ideal place for microbial life to develop. if you think about the materials involved and the history of the solar system, it isn't completely out of the question. picture an asteroid impact on earth during the 2 billion years of pre-cambrian-ness here on earth, causing a cloud of organics kicked up into orbit, which is subsquently passed through by a comet. the comet is 'moist' for its proximity to the sun (the outer shell is melting). perhaps inbound comets would simply shed the earth-dust as they approach the sun, but an outbound comet would keep whatever it picks up. this is how they grow.
After reading this article, I am convinced (not by anything directly mentioned- more by way of intuition) that a comet could in fact be some sort of higher order organism. after billions of years to evolve in a relatively stable envoronment. the entire comet could be an agglomeration of these rugged microbes, acting in unison much like a colony organism (jellyfish, sea anemone, fungusses) or even better, a multicelled creature like you or I. imagine for a moment that each comet is an entire creature, bobbing around in their oort cloud, communicating via vibratory radio fluctuations in their water/carbon/metal selves... mating == collision, and the sun's gravity well is the grim reaper. perhaps there are even predators/prey! we could 'domesticate' predatory comets for orbital protection from asteroids.
I am off to the stationary store to buy a new quill.
:)Fudboy
Visit the Deep Impact web page for details (Score:2)
Re:Are there *controlled* results? (Score:2)
What?! (Score:2)
I'm quite frankly amazed at the hubris that NASA are showing with this ill-conceived plan! I mean, who in the hell are they do decide that it's alright to blast a 100 foot deep hole in a comet just to gather a little bit of data? The Solar System is supposed to be a common resource for all humanity, not just a load of targets for America to test its fancy guidance systems on, even in the name of science.
There are better, if more expensive, ways to obtain this data if it is really needed. But there's no excuse for this kind of brute force Rambo method of information gathering, and I'd hate to think that it marks the start of a new phase of "science" whereby we obtain data by blowing things up. What's next, making a chemical analysis of Martian rock composition from debris thrown up by a nuclear strike on its surface?
Comet probes earth (Score:2)
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Nasa continues to wage unjust war on solar bodies. (Score:2)
Oh the Irony (Score:2)
Due to outdated computer systems and relying upon Microsoft programs we failed to calculate that shooting the comet will result in a shifting of the orbit so that the comet impacts earth. Unfortunately this was discovered several hours after launch, and we have no way to abort. We apologize for any inconvenience.
Flash Spectrogram (Score:3)
I doubt this really has much to do with the art of deflecting comets, but certainly that could be a side benefit of the real experiment.
A comet, being an active body, is not a good target for an automated lander. Too much can go wrong in an automated descent and the rount trip light time is generally too long to do anything about issues which arise.
A passive impactor is much more likely to succeed.
Re:Many reasons for this experiment... but... (Score:3)
NASA is run by men.
I mean, come on! What guy reading this article didn't get a hard-on at the idea of, basically, slamming a volkswagon beetle travelling 20 000mph into solid rock? This is way fucking better than dropping old computer monitors from the top of a building, shooting old hard drives with armour-piercing bullets or taking a sledgehammer to the laser printer!
Now, if *women* were running NASA, we'd have all sorts of namby-pamby cuddling stuff. Blast hell out of a comet? Dear, no, let's capture it and bring it back to earth! Smash a comet that's going to strike the earth? My, my, no! Let's attach booster rockets to it, and redirect the poor thing!
Rock on, NASA! Beat shit outta stuff for us -- just make sure you take lotsa pictures!
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Another good reason for doing this. (Score:3)
For the environmentalists - remember that this comet is going to boil away into nothingness in a few million years anyways.
Secondly, this is important to The Rest Of Us because we hope to be *mining* objects like this some day. Small objects in the solar system tend to fall into one of only a handful of composition categories, and this probe will let us get good prospecting data on one such category.
In a related story... (Score:3)
Re:Accelerator Envy (Score:3)
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Re:Better there than here. (Score:4)
1. Hey, where did that big glowing thing in the sky go?
2. They used *how much* force to do that?
3. Why is the earth wobbling in its orbit?
4. Where did all the tides go?
Mind you, this didn't stop Gerry Anderson making a rather neat (for the 70's
"the cupid-should-be-so-equipped dept" (Score:4)
" from the cupid-should-be-so-equipped dept "
Um ... yes ... I'm sure he would want to shoot a crater the size of a football field where two people were a moment ago.
"Darling, it felt like the earth moved..."
"It did."
Nasa continues to wage unjust war on solar bodies. (Score:5)
On the other hand its nice to see nasa planning a mission where they _deliberatly_ crash probes as opposed to what usually happens..
Many reasons for this experiment... but... (Score:5)
a) Can we shoot a comet with a rocket
b) what kind of damage can we expect the rocket to do
c) weither or not firing a nuke at an asteroid is a viable option in a armageddon senario
d) how much money we can spend on weird crap and get away with it
I'm only partially joking about d.
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Re:What?! (Score:5)
Actually, there's an amazingly charitable basis behind NASA's actions. Read on to learn what these champions of Universal Matter Suffrage are really up to.
Every day, over 400 metric tons of matter are shamelessly ripped from their peaceful trajectories and deposited on the Earth. This has been happening for billions of years, without any consideration whatsoever for the wishes and general well-being of the matter in question. We understand today that all space rocks have an inherent and fundamental right to exist free of unwanted interference from outside influences, and for the first time in our history, we are actually taking steps to end this brutality.
Now, if NASA can glean enough information from this comet collision, it stands a chance of being able to develop systems to prevent the Earth from enslaving these 400 tons of previously free-drifting, independant matter. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the ramifications of their endeavors.
NASA's hope is that by sacrificing some matter one one comet, they can hopefully prevent countless other cases of senseless, unseen matter abuse. It was a decision they did not come to lightly, but rest assured, NASA is taking every step it can to stop the Earth's rampant interference in the workings of the universe once and for all.
Fnord.
information wants to be expensive...nothing is so valuable as the right information at the right time.
Accelerator Envy (Score:5)
Seriously, they want to see what's inside the comet. The surface doesn't seem stable enough to land a drilling rig, and it's probably not safe to even fly near the comet (pieces keep breaking off). So instead, you shoot a hole in it from a safe distance.
Why copper? The projectile materials are going to show up in the readings, so you use something that is quite unlikely to actually be in there to start with. Not iron, that's a common component of rocks. You don't use platinum or uranium because their presence in the comet even in minute quantities would be quite interesting. You don't use lead because sometimes lead traces are a product of the radioactive decay of uranium, and so you need to measure the ratio of lead to uranium if possible. Copper is the most reasonably priced dense metal left.