AI Monkey Robot 93
Sircus writes "The BBC is carrying this article regarding a robot 'monkey' that has been taught to swing from rung to rung of a ladder, using only the distance between the rungs and some basic equations about swinging. There's not much technical detail, but this is an interesting approach to the problem of dumb robots, and one which certainly gives the suits something pretty to look at."
Re:Minor nit... (Score:1)
(IFL)
Bad Mojo
Yes, but... (Score:1)
--
" It's a ligne Maginot [maginot.org]-in-the-sky "
IMO - Not that great... (Score:3)
The article states:
"The human instructors have told it some equations for swinging and the distance between the rungs - it must do the rest." - The monkey knows how far it has to go to get to the next rung. What would be amazing is if it could sense where the rung is and calculate that distance itself. It does not solve the problem (to quote the article again) of "bumping into the object" because the monkey knows the object is there.
While it may be great for the mechanics of a robot, (able to swing) it is not that new of a technological developement. I have toured several car making plants. At one plant they had a robot that cleaned the floors and all it had was a map of the building... it simply sensed when objects (people and trash cans) where in the way. The monkey has everything told to it and it also uses trial and error.
What may be new is the fact that they managed to fit all that info and technology into something fairly small (judging from the pictures). Robots that are small and can do what the monkey does are rare (I do not know of any others that exist). I just don't think the swinging (kick legs/hands out until object is caught - then repeat) is a breakthrough.
Remember - this is just my opinion (not flamebait or troll) and I may be wrong... but I have seen far better robots (judging by usefulness, size, and technology) around.
Fortune Output: (Could be OT) (Score:1)
X windows.
So what if they're real or AI?
--Ben
I recommend dl'ing the movie! (Score:1)
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:2)
Top Speeds: Man(10-20mph); Cheetah(60-70mph)
Two legs are a problem for most practical designs, not a solution.
Remember, this thing has 14 motors (Score:1)
You have to remember this is not as simple as reach out and grab the next rung. The robot starts hanging directly beneath a rung and it has to swing to get up enough momentum to get to the next rung. It does this by swinging the legs and twisting at the hips. It had to learn all of this from scratch.
I think you will find that if they had not told the robot the distance between the rung then it would have to learn it using some kind of visual recognition system which is an entirely different project.
I wonder how many people here who claim that this is nothing much could do it...
Re:Difficult? (Score:2)
I wonder why they told it the distance between the rungs, though. If the robot is fast enough to track its own movements in three dimensions, what stops it from locating the next rung the same way?
It's all part of a conspiracy. (Score:1)
It's clear that "robo-monkeys" have been researched before, and their usefullness in conquering "evil forces" is at leat partially explored.
BoboBot was merely a simulation and technology demo; this latest BBC article proves that governments are working to create legions of these littls beasts.
Re:Minor nit... (Score:1)
Now Philipa Forester without her clothes would be news.
Sparkes
*** www.linuxuk.co.uk relaunches 1 Mar 2000 ***
Re:But is it truely learning? (Score:1)
If it were really the robot having some sort of cognitive action in here, the only things going on in the robot's circutry would be some basic things it likes, some basic things it doesn't like, and the ability to somehow trace what it likes and doesnt like to its actions and happenings in its environment, most likely through chronological proximity. It wouldn't be getting to the next rung because it knows these equations, it would be getting to the rung purely on estimation by realizing "if i reach this far for a rung this far away, I fall. Falling hurts." from there it would go in two directions - either stop trying to get across or keep going, depending on whether or not it has an incentive to get across. There shouldn't be any physics equations or ability to tell exact distances unless the robot supplies them itself.
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:1)
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:1)
More info... (Score:4)
From Reseach Activities 1998, Robotics and Mechatronics Laboratory of Micro System Control, Nagoya University.
Brachiation Robot That Learns By Doing
Study on the Control of a Two-link Brachiating Robbot via "Target Dynamics"
Compare and Contrast... (Score:5)
...this approach, with the one taken by Mark Tilden:
The latest Smithosonian had an especially good article about him. Apparently his original demo 'bot was a robust walker that could clear most obstacles, run by all of 12 transistors.
I think somebody needs to look at combining the approaches of AI based robots that make decisions based on modeling their world, and robots such as Tilden's that seem to simply have "body feel" for their environment. Perhaps a Tilden type robot body could carry a reasoning "head" that sets goals for the body to carry out. I think this would be much like ourselves. Imagine if you had to walk or jump with only your eyes to guide you. No sense of balance, or kinesthetic sense. I doubt you could do it. We shouldn't expect robots to do the same.
spatial abilities (Score:1)
I remember hearing about studies that suggested men are better at visualizing spatial relationships than women. It seems these researchers have finally determined *why* men are better at it: it's all in the balls!
Implications for the toy industry (Score:1)
AI or Al? (Score:1)
Ryan
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:1)
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:1)
There's a comparison to be made WRT software design- many small tools vs. monolithic apps.
1000 AI monkeys at keyboards (Score:1)
This message was not written by a 1000 monkeys...yet!
Re:The trouble with monkeys (Score:2)
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Watch out for the monkey gap! (Score:1)
The Japanese, who already lead the world in robotic dog technology, are now prepared to lock-up yet another species of mammillia in a flood of patents and trade secrets.
Pretty soon soon the market will be flooded with cheaply made imported robotic primates. How will the domestic robotic-monkey manufacturer be able to compete with the overwhelming tide of inferior, but inexpensive, cyber-chimps, oragutans and lemurs?
This is all the result of ignoring my repeated warnings re:NAFTA, the yakuza, the Church of the SubGenius and certain elements of freemasonry.
JFK died to preserve our rights to quality digital simians at affordable prices made right here in the US of A! And how do we repay him? We're so self-absorbed we don't notice our precious robotic-animal heritage being stolen from us. It took a British orginization, the BBC, to call it to our attention.
If we don't do anything about this, soon the international mega-cartels will control our mechanical-mammal destiny, and we can't afford to let that happen.
That is why I am announcing the creation of the open-sourced CyberWombat, which I will be releasing under the GPL. Since I know nothing about robotics, programming (or Wombats for that matter), I will need a little help. Any takers?
HipNerd
Saw the thing in action! (Score:1)
They have been trying to get things to walk, just by letting "trial and error" evolve. This is an advancement.
Now they are a bit further by having a 14-motor ape swing from rung to rung on a ladder. Some people may be afraid for AIs, but then they should just protest. I mean, this is just another step on the big ladder.
Roger.
Brachiation != Walking (Score:2)
Also, swinging along parallel ropes of a known distance appart is nowhere near as hard as walking. If it could literally swing between oddly arranged branches, that'd be cool. But it's not. It's another interesting case study in "how animals move", but the lessons you can learn from this do not translate very easily into the world of walking robots.
They're fun, because I could see the power company making robots that walk along power lines, or some crazy thing. Imagine a ski lift that swings up the lines. Lots of weird, fun applications come to mind.
But, this robot is not a "big swing forward" in robot development. It's a very specific, not very useful instance of people with too much time trying to make a robot that does Yet Another Goofy Thing.
So, if there were an infinite number of them... (Score:2)
Monkey Trouble (Score:1)
But seriously, having one of these around the house would be awesome!
What the hell (Score:1)
Difficult? (Score:1)
Monkey Note Taker? (Score:1)
And if you watch Space Ghost on comedy central, remember, don't let this monkey take notes for you or you'll pass in book reports that read:
You'll get an F.
--
The trouble with monkeys (Score:3)
Perhaps Jon Katz could write an article on how this will ruin life as we know it unless stopped. Or maybe how I'm oppressing robotic monkeys and forcing them to commit violence in labratories across the nation. I can hardly wait.
Bad Mojo
Re:So, if there were an infinite number of them... (Score:1)
But the monkey doesn't... (Score:1)
- tokengeekgrrl
Probably has great applications for walking robots (Score:5)
The same type of calculation of forces is necessary for the function of a walking robot. Now, with walking, you're dealing with a push instead of a pull, and feet that have to balance instead of arms that have to grip, but the calculations are similar.
But most signifigant is that the robot has to try to grab the next rung, and if it doesn't, it has to figure out what adjustments to make on the fly. Simlarily, if a robotic step went wrong, the robot would have to recognise it, and correct itself before it fell
Look out, Shakespeare! (Score:2)
--
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:2)
Upper Level Management (Score:1)
Yes, but does it throw feces? (Score:1)
Re:The trouble with monkeys (Score:2)
Dude, we're already there!
Re:What the hell (Score:1)
But is it truely learning? (Score:3)
But is it truely learning?
Or is it just a simple function? Perhaps all it is, besides a heck of alot of expensive equipment, is the following:
int try_swing(int force, int lastForce, int secondLastForce) // out of reach // We're just swinging between too high and too low and can't ever make the branch; // Try to grab the branch with this amount of force in his "kick" backwards // caught branch // Try a less force // Try a more force // Something happened, we can't do it
{
if (abs(force) > FORCEMAX) return FALSE;
if (force == secondLastForce) return FALSE;
switch (swing_out(force))
{
case GOT_IT : return TRUE;
case TOO_HIGH : return try_swing(--force, force, lastForce);
case TOO_LOW : return try_swing(++force,force, lastForce);
default: return FALSE;
}
}
My point is not to insult the researchers who created the monkey, but instead to point out that just because it can "adapt" enough to swing from branch to branch, that does not mean it thinks! If that is the case, then the thermostat in your house is a thinking robot, because it turns on the heat when it's cold in your house, and turns the heat off when the temperature is too warm.
For this monkey to truely "think", he would need to remember everything he has "learned" in the past and apply it to each new branch, or even to other aspects of its life. For instance, if it ran into a tree, the result should hurt it so much that it would resolve to shy away from trees in the future, rather than run into them again. He should recognize trees that he has already seen before and run them flawlessly, and use skills he learned from one tree on the next.
Notice, I said 'skills'. Anything can be programmed to do one skill. But for it to take that skill and turn it into a new skill, such as taking an unintentional fall and catching the next rung below him, and thus learning how to go from level to level... or to "learn", without ever being programmed, how to catch a branch behind it with its feet...that is learning.
Re:The trouble with monkeys (Score:1)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the monkeys in washington are entirely organic. Except for Strom Thurmond, he's being held together with duct tape.
Re:Analog AI (Score:1)
Re:Difficult? (Score:2)
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There are walking robots (Score:2)
Re:What the hell - mindstorm monkeys? (Score:1)
Why.... (Score:2)
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:1)
> with two legs?
The reason you only have two legs: energy is expensive. At least when you are running of batteries or pizza.
Ryan Salsbury
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:2)
Ryan
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:2)
Is this a breakthrough? (Score:1)
However, this is in no way saying that C-3P0 is right around the corner.
Minor nit... (Score:5)
Monkeys generally walk *on* the branches and leap from branch to branch. (Sometimes hanging from the branches to grab things, etc.)
Apes are the critters that brachiate. Brachiation allows the animal moving around in the trees to be larger than if it leapt from branch to branch. (Of course, some of the "greater apes" (orangutan, gorilla, chimpanzee and us...) got big enough that they rarely go up in trees anymore -- a full grown silverback male gorilla would break most trees if it tried to climb them)
I guess "robo-ape" doesn't sound as good as "robo-monkey" -- especially since most people think of gorillas and not gibbons when they hear "ape".
Planet of the robot apes (Score:1)
Archie McFee was there first! (Score:1)
Re:So, if there were an infinite number of them... (Score:1)
Another false positive (Score:1)
I know how this can be used! (Score:2)
Meanwhile, the Powerpuff Girls, in colaboration with the BBC is putting out this false article to deceive Mojo Jojo into coming out of hiding so that Buttercup can beat him up again.
Alternatively, this could be some really intriguing research into real-world-ish dynamic systems, as most Computer Scientists can't handle anything more complicated than stationary cubes.
Re:Probably has great applications for walking rob (Score:1)
Could probably be used where there is limited space. Perhaps could be used to find books in a library? (just a suggestion)
Mikael Jacobson
Re:Minor nit... (Score:2)
At the end of the page, they say: And yes we do know that gibbons are apes and not monkeys.
Hanging is not standing (Score:1)
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Re:Compare and Contrast... (Score:2)
For Mark Tilden's Home page: http://nis-www.lanl.gov/robot/
For the B.E.A.M. Robotics page: http://www.beam-online.com/
Ook... (Score:2)
Analog AI (Score:3)
Death Match (Score:2)
Anyways, get these 2 robot creatures and put them in a free for all death match live though web cam on the Internet. Progess in the AI robtics field is only good if other AI robots can take them on in a death match, a fight to the finish.
Plus I am just getting so sick of getting spam for signing up for all these contests to win a dam little robotic dog that doesn't even come standard with a flame thrower. A buzz saw would not be hard to retro-fit on it though...
Really cool to see! (Score:5)
The monkey robot is currently most limited by the power/data cables that give it life and can only travel one or two bars before needing to be placed back where it started. It's motions are incredibly lifelike.
For more information about the people and projects at Prof Fukuda's lab, check out this link to the English version [nagoya-u.ac.jp] of the web page.
Internet AI Project (Score:2)
Animal Crackers (Score:1)
it's all relative (Score:1)
Monkey mirror here (Score:1)
Thank you.