Fun Things To Do With a Math Or Science Degree?

bxwatso writes "My niece just took the ACT and got a perfect score on the math section. 25 years ago, when I took the test, the kids who aced the math section were pretty special. Her score, combined with straight A's so far in high school, suggest to me that she might be able to go to a top university (MIT?) based on her math aptitude. The rub is that she doesn't like math or science, even though she finds them easy. She doesn't want to be an engineer or scientist. I thought the folks here would be a great group to ask: What are some creative, not too nerdy professions that nonetheless require a talent for math, engineering, or science?"

funs things to do with the degree

[LingNoi (1066278)]

Well you could ball it up and try and shoot it into a waste basket from a distance.

Make it into a paper aeroplane.

Burn it

Origami perhaps..

Yeah, that's all the fun things I can think of doing with a degree...

Re:funs things to do with the degree

[by Anonymous Coward]

Tell her to go into law or politics. It would be nice if a few more people in those areas had that sort of analytical ability.

Simple

[heretic108 (454817)]

With her mathematical/scientific aptitude and overall intellectual capability, there's one very simple and satisfying career choice! [wikipedia.org]

How about medicine?

[damn_registrars (1103043)]

Most prerequisites for medicine (or dentistry, veterinary medicine, or chiropractic school) are science classes. If she does well as math and science, she may way to consider those paths.

Re:How about medicine?

[damn_registrars (1103043)]

Medicine is great if you are prepared for the huge amount of student loan debt that comes with it.

There are a variety of ways to deal with that.

• There are several programs that will essentially relieve your debt if you do a few years rural practice
• Some schools have BS/MD programs for students who would otherwise be "traditional" pre-med in undergrad - finish the two degrees in less than the usual 8 years (and hence take in less debt)
• Research physician (MD/PhD) programs are usually paid in full by the school
• If you go into a high-paying specialty you will pull in enough money that your debt will be irrelevant

Don't get too excited.

[jfjfjdk (1260722)]

At my mid-level university, one quarter of all students who made it past the second year in my rigorous program had perfect scores on both sections. The test really isn't that difficult these days, and even a moderate amount of targeted prep combined with a targeted curriculum puts you in a strong position; put her in a Putnam and we'll see what she's made of. MIT is the sort of unpleasant experience that should be reserved for those who genuinely want it.

Re:Don't get too excited.

[Hao Wu (652581)]

MIT is the sort of unpleasant experience that should be reserved for those who genuinely want it.

Absolutely, and so many people lose perspective on that. My philosophy is to aim for the top, minus one or two "points". In other words people who push themselves to the max seem to end up miserable.

Don't sell yourself short, by any means... Aim high high HIGH -- but be realistic.

Whatever that means!

Re:Don't get too excited.

[Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286)]

I'd like to say, Aim High, but choose your target wisely. Many people, culture, common sense will all try and tell you what that highest goal should be. For God's sake, choose the goal your self.

Re:Don't get too excited.

[porcupine8 (816071)]

MIT is the sort of unpleasant experience that should be reserved for those who genuinely want it.

This, this, this. Though most of the time if she doesn't really want to go there, they'll catch it in the admissions process - but occasionally someone slips through b/c they did a good job of faking it for their parents' sake. I saw one of those people have an honest-to-god breakdown in her advisor's office.

So...

[msuarezalvarez (667058)]

You could explain to her that neither math nor science in general is a `nerdy' profession, that she will outgrow her adolescence and that she will very soon hardly remember the names of her high school classmates. That there are peers out there to be had that are considerably more valuable than those who might have instilled in her that fear of nerdiness. That, in fact, she should do whatever it is she may want to do.

Re:So...

[mkcmkc (197982)]

Pretty good advice. Although I'd had a strong interest in computers from at least the age of 10 (and math since 5), reading those career counseling guides with pictures of nerdy-looking programmers in horn-rimmed glasses made me fear what my life would be like if I followed that path. So, instead, I wandered around in the wilderness for a few years, trying this and that and discovering what I wasn't good at. Finally, I returned to computers and it was quite a revelation.

I've no idea what'd be good in your case. Maybe just encourage her to keep an open mind and explore the possibilities.

Ask her what she likes to do.

[mswope (242988)]

You mentioned what she's good at. Try to find out what she likes and see if there's a match there. Sure, she's got the potential, but if she's not happy doing it - even if she follows it through, she's doing it for the wrong reasons. She'll probably not be happy doing it.

Women is science and games industry

[LingNoi (1066278)]

The rub is that she doesn't like math or science, even though she finds them easy. She doesn't want to be an engineer or scientist.

As do most women in programming and the games industry which is why I find it ridiculous to pander to all this women in the games industry bullshit.

Let her do what she wants.

Re:Women is science and games industry

[Plutonite (999141)]

That is always good advice, but remember, at that age it is difficult to see the value of science. It is difficult to understand, even for college seniors in technical majors (math, natural sciences, comp.sci..etc), the immense benefit of being someone who understands how the world works. It usually takes a little sit-back and thinking to come to grips with the fact that you are proving things about the very nature of logic itself, or modelling the universe at levels the human mind did not really evolve to deal with. Anybody capable of doing science(esp at a high level), and enjoying this incredible meaningfulness and understanding (read:enlightenment) that comes as a result.. those people should be at least encouraged to pursue it. No harm could come from an honest suggestion. She may owe him so much for it later.

psychology

[sharp3 (1195261)]

If she enjoys psychology (or at maybe at this point just liked to talk on the phone a lot) she may want to consider that as a possibility. Research psych requires a lot of statistical and analytical skills

I'm good at math, but don't like it.

[kklein (900361)]

I'm pretty good at math, but don't particularly like it. Also, science is cool and I like reading about it, but it has always looked like a pretty dreary profession.

Basically, though, math skills are indicative of structured, logical thought. That is useful everywhere.

Don't push her into something just because she's good at it. Let her do whatever she wants. If she's smart, she'll probably be fine.

Sounds like me

[sisina (849900)]

I'm a woman who aced the math ACT but didn't feel like studying math or science. I was into foreign languages. So now I have a bachelor's in Spanish and a master's in French literature, and I'm a web developer. Go figure.

What might have convinced me to study one of the hard sciences is seeing people actually at work using them. If I had met any pharmaceutical researchers or civil engineers or software developers and seen what they do at work every day, I might have found it more interesting. As it was, I had no frame of reference for working with math or science, and therefore no interest.

Learning is fundamental

[Tjp($)pjT (266360)]

Anything. Math is the basis for biology, music, the arts (even if that math looks like chaos theory) and just about everything except (and maybe not except) philosophy. Actuary... Pay the "dues" for a few years then make big dollars and having been bored to tears the first years, get to figure out interesting problems. Like the likelihood of a death on a space trip to Mars. Useful in telling NASA how much their insurance will cost. Try to avoid being the bean counter set where you have the job of balancing law suit payouts versus thickness and grade of metal in vehicle gas tanks... But the MBA or PHD in economics from say Wharton combined with a bachelors in compsci, hard sciences, engineering, or even physics would put her a world ahead.

Re:Learning is fundamental

[Jerf (17166)]

just about everything except (and maybe not except) philosophy

I have no idea what current philosophy academics are interested in, so I can't accuse them of not keeping up. But if they aren't keeping up with AI, the Simulation Argument [simulation-argument.com], Bayesian theory and other such statistical things, QM's implications for the many-worlds hypothesis, and computer science research into semantics, just to pull a few things off the top of my head, they are wasting their time in several fields traditionally included under the rubric of "philosophy" (epistemology, ethics, etc.).

We still have no rock-solid answers to speak of to the old questions, but for the first time in millennia, we actually have some data for some of them... and we're only going to be collecting more. And even what little data we have has opened up more questions; "what does it mean to be human?" will begin to take on new overtones when we start asking just exactly how augmented does an ape have to be before it is "human", just how smart does an AI have to be, and, of course, is a binary definition of "human" even feasible, and if not, what is? And so on.

(I know for a fact there are philosophers interested in this. I simply don't know if they are in or out of the mainstream. Certainly they will eventually be in the mainstream.)

Re:Be a teacher

[lysergic.acid (845423)]

what does "elementary education" have to do with math or science degrees?

in any case, if the ACTs are anything like the SATs then they're more of an indicator of general academic aptitude (including test-taking skills) rather than a measure of math ability, writing ability, etc. that's not to say that getting a perfect SAT/ACT score isn't impressive, and there's certainly a correlation between good students and good SAT/ACT scores. but they're not an indicator of intelligence--though they might be an indicator of college-preparedness. for instance, i have several friends who scored lower than me on the SATs who i know for a fact are much smarter than i am.

also, in my experience maths and sciences don't become very challenging until you get to about college undergraduate level material. and i don't think the SATs/ACTs really test for scholastic aptitude beyond 9th or 10th grade high school course material. a better indicator of whether a student excels at math/science would be the AP exams, which do cover things like calculus and college-level physics.

it's quite easy to excel in high school algebra & geometry, but the learning curve really shoots up once you get to multi-variable calculus/linear algebra or discrete mathematics. so you really shouldn't push a student into a math/science field that they're not interested in just because they find the high school material very easy. because once you get to college level courses, it quickly becomes a completely different story. and at that point it's vital that the student be interested in what he/she is studying, otherwise they won't have the drive to push ahead and will quickly get burnt out.

that said, the reason a student might not be interest in math/science in high school could be due to their high school math & science curricula not being challenging enough to hold their interest. if she isn't in AP classes then perhaps she should try to take some math/science courses at a local community college. that will help to expose her to what college-level maths & sciences are really like, which she might find more interesting. also, i think it's a bad idea to treat college as a trade school or vocational training. students should be free to take classes that pique their interest and follow academic pursuits that they enjoy. once you've found your niche and finish college, you can then decide where best to apply your acquired skills. otherwise you might as well go to a technical school.

Re:Be a teacher

[Kachii (795252)]

I absolutely agree with this comment. I'm from the UK and I suffered the same fate that you wish to throw upon your daughter - being coerced into a specific degree program at a top London university just because I excelled in that area in my secondary (high) school, without realising myself what a change it would be from the material I had learnt thus far through my life. It certainly didn't do me any favours.

I am trundling along. I appear to have the required intelligence in order to complete my degree (or so I hope!) but damn is that learning curve STEEP.

Other than that, it strikes me odd that you can't come up with some viable and interesting options yourself. Basically, unless your daughter wants to be an elementary school maths teacher, she's probably going to be surrounded by it 24/7 for the rest of her life (researcher, anyone?). If she's not going to enjoy it, please, don't make her do it - and that includes cajoling her into believing it's the only thing she's possibly good at.

Instead of asking what you have here, I suggest you ask your daughter what she'd /like/ to do - see all the other degrees and/or career paths your daughter could take, excel in and enjoy and still lead a successful life at the end of it. It'll be like a voyage of discovery for you! - finding out what professions are good for your daughter, instead of the professions you can push her into despite her distaste for them.

Good luck.

Re:Be a teacher

[by Anonymous Coward]

There is no math section on the ACT. It is a computation section that they call math. On the GRE it is called quantitative. University mathematics programs end up with many students who think they are good at math until they hit algebra and analysis and wonder what the hell happened. They tend to go on to become math teachers.

  When I was in grad school the best predictor of success in mathematics PhD programs was verbal GRE score, but nobody advises students who score perfect on the English portion of the ACT to think about being a mathematician. I wonder why that is.

She doesn't want to be an engineer or scientist. I thought the folks here would be a great group to ask

You are better off asking her what she wants to do. What is she interested in? If she has no idea then going to a large university where she'll be exposed to a number of different fields and opportunities is not a bad idea.

Re:Be a teacher

[Smauler (915644)]

Wow, marketing is put forward as a serious alterative to scientific pursuits, and is +4 informative. I never thought I'd see the day slashdot. News for Nerds, Stuff that matters.

Re:Econ

[guacamole (24270)]

Graduate level economics is almost indistinguishable from graduate level math (or physics)

This is not true (and fortunately, thank god, functional analysis while applicable in theory, has little to say about relevant real world economics). People who say econ is no different from math, obviously haven't taken a serious pure math course. Graduate economics is somewhat technical and quantitative but is not rigorous or formal enough to be confused with a branch of mathematics (unless you take an advanced theory course, which is not representative of the field as a whole). At the same time, there is not enough dynamical systems in it to be confused with physics (I took a bunch of econ courses, and didn't have to solve one differential equation). But yes, econ a very quantitative, and so math,stat, or physics majors could feel at very comfortable in an econ program.

Re:Econ

[asifyoucare (302582)]

Economists exist only to make meteorologists look good.