Subliminal Messages Might Actually Work

GrumpySimon writes "New research indicates that subliminal messages may actually work. In a paper titled Attentional Load Modulates Responses of Human Primary Visual Cortex to Invisible Stimuli, Bahrani et al. demonstrate that even though stimuli may not be available to consciousness, they are processed by the visual cortex. While I'm sure that marketing agencies all over the world are rubbing their hands in glee at this news, the authors report that there's no evidence that this can make people buy things against their will. So with any luck the use of subliminal messages in advertising will remain an urban legend."

Television

[The Living Fractal (162153)]

I can garauntee that they don't work well in television. At least, not on me. Because, even if they're only 1 frame, I can see them at 24fps. And it greatly annoys me when things flicker on the screen. I might not be able to tell what's flickering there (depending on the complexity of the image), but I promise you I will find out (record, pause, learn). And when I do, and it's some total BS thought up by some ad company, I can further promise you I will be purposefully not buying their product.

Nope, stick with good old quality writing and you'll get my interest. Then I'll at least look into your product and consider buying it. Otherwise, good luck.

TLF

Re:Television

[bheer (633842)]

I agree with you, drink slimeball marketing tactics only piss of consumers.
There are many more enviga honest ways to sell wares.

Re:

[The Living Fractal (162153)]

ROFL.

That reminds me of the SNL skit Kevin Neilan (sp?) did..

"I was thinking we could go out for some hotsex dinner and then maybe later a movie..."

Well, it went something like that anyway. Damned good.

TLF

Re:

[Eternauta3k (680157)]

Nope, stick with good old quality writing and you'll get my interest. Then I'll at least look into your product and consider buying it. Otherwise, good luck.

I agree. Sure, some argue any kind of marketing is manipulating the customer, but companies should stick to making their product known. Manipulating people is, in my opinion, shifting them from the best product (price/quality ratio) to the one with the best advertisements. That way, money is wasted both by the consumers and by the companies (which ultim

Re:Television

[Lemmy Caution (8378)]

The "should"s of it aside, it's a little disappointing that no one is asking the difficult question: is subliminal communication protected speech? Could it get to a point that it doesn't qualify as a legitimate form of protected speech?

There is a kind of fiction which is very central to our notions of freedom and rationality: that there is a world of deliberative thoughts and ideas, where we rationally evaluate things and discuss them, where ideas are free, and there's the world of bodies and emotions and material stuff, where I don't have the right to hit you or take your stuff or threaten you. Subliminal marketing blurs this distinction by working at the intersection of the two.

Re:

[DigitAl56K (805623)]

I can garauntee that they don't work well in television. At least, not on me. Because, even if they're only 1 frame, I can see them at 24fps.

Sure, but what happens when you start blending images, i.e. instead of flashing a message or product image briefly on the screen, subtly adjust the existing image so that you can still perceive the message, but no flashing occurs.

Anyway, as much as I hate subliminal messaging, I would rather put up with that than have Billy Mays [wikipedia.org] yelling at me to buy OxyClean, OrangeGlo

Re:

[Andrew Kismet (955764)]

I prefer Barry Scott [wikipedia.org]...

DO YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH LIMESCALE, RUST, AND GROUND-IN DIRT? THEY'RE A CHALLENGE, BUT NOT, FOR CILLIT BANG!!

((y'know, the lameness filter is useful sometimes, but it's bloody annoying when you're legitimately trying to convey shouting))

Re:

[/dev/trash (182850)]

Have you met the 16 th amendment dude? You two would get along great.

Re:

[venicebeach (702856)]

Well it should be noted that the experimental technique used in this article cannot be done with a standard televison, since it requires input to each eye to be controlled separately. They used continuous flash suppression [wikipedia.org], where an image presented to one eye is suppressed by flashing another image in the other eye.

Re:

[Pc_Madness (984705)]

I thought flashing hidden messages was illegal in most countries? I thought it was in Australia atleast.

Re:

[Jartan (219704)]

I can garauntee that they don't work well in television. At least, not on me. Because, even if they're only 1 frame, I can see them at 24fps.

TV is not 24 fps. It's 60 fps interlaced. Slashdot needs a -1 "my eyeballs/ears are amazing" tag I think.

"Buy things against their will"

[catbutt (469582)]

What does that even mean?

Just plain old advertising could be said to make people "buy things against their will", if it tips the balance from "slightly inclined to not purchase" to "slightly inclined to purchase".

Speaking in such black and white terms is misleading.

Re:"Buy things against their will"

[TheRealMindChild (743925)]

I was flabbergasted to find that bathing with Axe body didn't bring in the babes. I even told them they love me. But I guess I got a bad batch or something because they just ran away. Fast.

Re:

[catbutt (469582)]

the difference being print advertising appeals to the conscious mind, subliminal tv advertising targets the unconscious mind

Well, print or tv, my point was neither for nor against subliminal advertising.

It is simply that we can discuss it more reasonably if you don't try to look at something that is inherently a "shades of gray" issue as a black and white one.

Most advertising, I'd guess, tries to use subtle psychological "tricks" to try to influence you to buy the product. What if they use shades of yellow and orange, because some study says that those colors connote trust? Or whatever. Is that subliminal? I don't thi

Re:Purpose, Method, Consequences of Subliminal Ads

[Dun Malg (230075)]

Road rage, divorce, hook-ups, and many other social disorders are a direct consequence of this unethical form of advertising.

Bollocks. You're one of those "TV is the devil" fuckwits, aren't you. Road rage has more to do with urban stress than anything else. Increase in divorce rates has fuck-all to do with TV and everything to do with a liberalization of society and abandonment of the stigma attached to single parenting, i.e. marriages aren't being wrecked by TV, they're just not being kept together when they're bad anymore. "Hook-ups"? If you knew anything about sexual promiscuity throughout the ages, you'd know what an idiot you sound like claiming it's a "social disorder". People like fucking, and they always have. They do it all the time. Porn doesn't make 'em do it-- we're hard wired for it. Get over your bizarre prudery.

Oblig. Simpsons

[by Anonymous Coward]

!yvaN eht nioJ

Mr Subliminal - SNL

[by Anonymous Coward]

[ Ted walks into a bar with Mr. Subliminal ]
Mr. Subliminal: Two beers, please.
Ted: I just can't get the hang of it..
Mr. Subliminal: That's because it's new to you. Believe me, Ted, subliminal advertising can be very, very effective.
Bartender: Alright, gentlemen, here's your beers.
Mr. Subliminal: Thanks, partner - on the house - that was quick - on the house - what do we owe you?
Bartender: Uh.. forget about it - on the house!
Mr. Subliminal: Oh? Thank you very much! Hey.. you know something - free cash - this is a real classy place - free cash - first time we've been here.
Bartender: Oh, I'm glad you like it. I've been working here for years.
Mr. Subliminal: Oh, no kidding- free cash - that's great!
Bartender: [ opens cash register and drops cash on the counter ] Here ya go.
Mr. Subliminal: What's this for?
Bartender: It's free cash, take it.
Ted: [ chuckles ] This is a real nice place!
Mr. Subliminal: No, really - free cash - we can't take this - your wallet - I mean, what would we do with it?
Bartender: Well, don't be ridiculous! [ drops his wallet on the counter ] Here, you take my wallet, you can put it in there!
Mr. Subliminal: Well, okay, if you insist! [ takes wallet, turns to Ted ] You see?
Ted: See what?
Mr. Subliminal: [ spots an attractive Woman on the next barstool ] Hi! Come here often?
Woman: [ laughs ] Oh, come on. That's the oldest line in the book.
Mr. Subliminal: Hey, sorry if I was out of line - lonely - I just thought that you might - lonely - you know, like to talk.
Woman: Well.. I am feeling a little.. lonely. It's just that I'm so sick and tired of guys hitting on me all the time, you know?
Mr. Subliminal: Oh, believe me - hot sex - I'm not hitting on you - hot sex - I just can, you know, understand that lonely feeling!
Woman: [ nods ] You do, don't you?
Mr. Subliminal: Sure do.
Woman: You seem like a very sensitive man.
Mr. Subliminal: Well..
Woman: And.. sexy, too! [ giggles ]
Mr. Subliminal: [ turns and whispers to Ted ] You gonna get the hang of it?
Ted: Uh.. yeah..
Mr. Subliminal: [ to Woman ] The name's Phil, Phil Maloney - kiss me - and it's a real plasure meeting you - kiss me - a real pleasure!
Woman: [ quickly jumps in and kisses him ]
Mr. Subliminal: [ catches his breath ] What was that for - your place - I mean, that was nice - your place - I mean, and you are..?
Woman: I'm Wanda! What do you say we go to my place?
Mr. Subliminal: Oh, great!
Woman: It's a five-story walk-up, I hope you don't mind..
Mr. Subliminal: Mind? - hotel - No, I don't mind - luxury hotel - maybe I'll lose some weight - your treat - [ laughs ].
Woman: Better yet - how about we go away to a luxury hotel - I'll pay! How about that?
Mr. Subliminal: Great idea - horny - there's one right around the corner - handcuffs - let's go!
Woman: Okay, let's go!
Mr. Subliminal: Okay, then - spank me - let's go1
[ they rush out of the bar ]
[ a beautiful woman sits next to Ted ]
Ted: Ahhhhh, yeah, I think I'm beginning to see.. [ notices the woman next to him ] Yeah..
Policeman: [ enters bar ] Alright! Who owns the white volvo out front?
Ted: Uh.. that's mine, Officer. Is there a problem?
Policeman: Yeah, it's a $50 problem. You parked in front of a fire hydrant. Let me see your license.

Ted: Uh.. oh, yeah, sure, Officer.. Uh.. to be honest, Officer - HOT SEX! - I didn't see the hydrant - TIE ME UP! - it was dark.

Policeman: What did you say?

Ted: I said - HOT SEX! - I didn't see the hydrant - SPANK ME! - it was dark.

Policeman: Hot sex? Spank me? Alright, pervert, come on, you're going downtown! [ drags Ted away ]

Ted: Uh, no, Officer, please - KISS ME! Officer, no - KISS ME! Officer, no - HORNY! Please - YOUR PLACE! Officer..

[ fade out ]

Re:

[The Living Fractal (162153)]

Bahah thank you, I was looking for that in a earlier post. Awesome.

TLF

Nah

[istartedi (132515)]

Nah, I don't see how that could be. However, this article was unusually good for some reason. I think I'm going to subscribe to Slashdot.

Photoreading

[bennyp (809286)]

Reminds me of "Photoreading"... the concept is that by relaxing the gaze and not looking at any one word, but the whole page, one is capable of absorbing books at a rate of 1 page per second. The pages are stored in the mind somewhere, then through a series of activities, one brings up the info into consciousness. Unfortunately, rather than go the scientific way, the inventor has chosen to market it as a self-help course. Weird!

Re:

[Brickwall (985910)]

From rough memory, I think that at each point our eyes stop while reading we only see a few words with any accuracy, and our eyes stop almost constantly as we read, even including jumping back over single words two or three times.

Well, only if you've been poorly trained. If you've ever looked at increasing your reading speed, the techniques most recommended are training your eyes to take in larger chunks (i.e. wider) of text at each time, and to move down the page constantly. I took an Evelyn Wood course

please don't READ THIS COMMENT

[waynemcdougall (631415)]

SO what the article is saying is that attentional load
MODulates attentional responses to
MEssage that are carrying an embedded message. I will not put
UP with these shenanigans that are calcualated to
INCITE us make a
FOOL of ourselves.

Re: please don't READ THIS COMMENT

[Black Parrot (19622)]

SO what the article is saying is that attentional load
MODulates attentional responses to
MEssage that are carrying an embedded message. I will not put
UP with these shenanigans that are calcualated to
INCITE us make a
FOOL of ourselves.

Funny, after reading that I got an irresistable urge to run out and buy some SMMUIF.

"Subliminal Messages Might Actually Work"

[Black Parrot (19622)]

How come this article gets 5% shorter when I turn on my browser's ad filter?

Hold it...

[20th Century Boy (903797)]

hanG on there folks, I haVe my doubts ovEr such claiMs, howEver Mildly innOceNt thEY seem.

Woo. Hoo.

[susano_otter (123650)]

So visual stimuli are processed by the visual cortex?

Groundbreaking science! Good work, gentlemen!

Now all we have to do is show that images glimpsed for a fraction of a second have more effect than images viewed for noticeable lengths of time, and we'll know for sure! Subliminal advertising ahoy!

Non-issue

[Barny (103770)]

In the states at least, since the FCC have http://web.archive.org/web/20060503194404/www.para scope.com/articles/0497/sublimdc.htm [archive.org] already made their stance on this to broadcasting networks.

I think I read somewhere that the UN had a similar knee-jerk to it back then too and said the same, anyone got a link to it?

movie name

[anagama (611277)]

What was that movie about subliminal advertising and the guns that caused people to black out for hours?

There was a TV show too!

[Brickwall (985910)]

And let's not forget about Max Headroom, the Zikzak Corporation, and "blipverts".

Re:

[GrumpySimon (707671)]

What was that movie about subliminal advertising and the guns that caused people to black out for hours?

"Legally Blonde 2"

Re:

[bmo (77928)]

"What was that movie about subliminal advertising and the guns that caused people to black out for hours?"

"Looker"

Get to see Susan Dey nakkid.

--
BMO

Now /. is resorting to posting BS?

[The Real Toad King (981874)]

Whatever, I'm going out to buy some popcorn.

So they work, eh?

[zCyl (14362)]

They rally you like industrial ninjas use xeroxes.

My summary

[venicebeach (702856)]

Well I just read the article and it appears that the main point of this paper is that attention affects the processing of unconscious, invisible visual stimuli.

What they did was to have a task in central vision that was either easy (not requiring much attention) or hard (requiring lots of attention). At the same time, invisible pictures were flashed in the periphery (made invisible by masking). Looking at the voxels in visual cortex which correspond to the locations of the invisible, peripheral stimuli, they found greater activity in easy mode than in hard mode. In other words, when the central visual task required lots of attention, the invisible stimuli in the periphery activated visual cortex more weakly.

To quote the article "The present findings are the first to show that neural processes involved in the retinotopic registration of stimulus presence in V1 depend on availability of attentional capacity, even when they do not invoke any conscious experience. These findings challenge previous suggestions that attention and awareness are one and the same."

nitsche

[EnigmaticSource (649695)]

"<i>N</i>ew research <i>i</i>ndica<i>t</i>es that <i>s</i>ubliminal messages may a<i>c</i>tually work. In a paper titled Attentional Load Modulates Responses of <i>H</i>uman Primary Visual Cort<i>e</i>x to <i>I</i>nvisible <i>S</i>timuli, Bahrani et al. <i>d</i>emonstrate that <i>e</i>ven though stimuli m<i>a</i>y not be available to consciousness, they are processe

OT:Drunk Re:nitsche

[EnigmaticSource (649695)]

Stupid lysdexia, I wish ./ would make me preview when I'm drunk.

Oh Well, so much for my Karma bonus

Now and Zen

[BillGatesLoveChild (1046184)]

> While I'm sure that marketing agencies all over the world are rubbing their hands in glee at this news,

Let's mount our own subliminal ad campaign: "Ban Advertising" or better still "Ban Advertising Executives"

Old news, bad conclusions.

[alisson (1040324)]

This isn't exactly new information. It's been widely available for decades that yes, in fact, you do register subliminal messages. But it's also been proven time and again, that they have a statistically insignificant effect on your desires, and CERTAINLY not enough to change your opinions.

Re:

[Walt Dismal (534799)]

While I read this thread, I kept wanting to have hot sex. Then I looked at the page's source. Every word was followed by the words 'Hot sex!" and "Cmdr Taco!" coded to render in white text on a white background. Unfortunately, my browser didn't render it all properly, and I ended up having sex with Mexican food. Many times. In one hour.

All I got to say...

[toupsie (88295)]

RATS!

Re:

[mdsolar (1045926)]

Republocrats!

Also Investigate

[dave562 (969951)]

Neuro Linguistic Programming - And also as an adjunct, Bandler and Grinder's two books on Eriksonian hypnosis as a delivery method for subconscious suggestions Influence by Cialdini. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini [wikipedia.org]

Old News?

[Wazukkithemaster (826055)]

My psych 111 class went over things like this... the brain processes a lot of things that aren't consciously picked up upon especially when it comes to vision. Experiments have been done that prove that people really don't notice what is right in front of their faces. A bunch of people were shown a video of 2 people tossing a basketball back and forth for probably 10 minutes (i dont recall exactly) but then a man in a gorilla suit walks by behind the people tossing the basketball, then everything proceeds

Re:

[TCaM (308943)]

sounds like a vonage commercial

Re:

[GrumpySimon (707671)]

There were also other Change Blindness experiments which were more convincing, mainly conducted by Daniel Simons. For example, in one study, participants went into a room and asked to sign up for something. The person behind the desk, ducked down to get them a form, and a *different* person stood up and continued the conversation.

The vast majority of subjects didn't notice anything wrong, even when there were large differences in the two people.

Subliminal adverts are already out there!

[John Jamieson (890438)]

So with any luck the use of subliminal messages in advertising will remain an urban legend.... ha ha ha. They are already out there!

I work a lot in the gameing(gambling really, but we call it gameing) industry as a coder.
The national/public news organization up in Canada has been ripping apart one or the provincial lottery organizations lately. In the investigation they found that some KONAMI slots were displaying subliminal messages. They were flashing winning hands. This affected 3 newer types of slot

LSD messes up the reaction

[infonography (566403)]

Whatever you do;

Do not think about your tongue.

/thats a very old and dirty trick, best said to acidheads. but if you think somebody can't put something in somebody's head well, what are you thinking about right now?

They sort of work, but aren't very effective

[PIPBoy3000 (619296)]

If I remember my college psych classes properly, subliminal messages to buy a product may work to some degree, but obvious ads to buy a product work far better. There's lots of studies on the effectiveness of advertising, and not very many on the effectiveness of subliminal messages.

I think Greenwald [millisecond.com] is the author I was thinking of, but some of these other articles may be useful.

Nothing Subliminal In Advertising

[Alaren (682568)]

Remember, if you don't buy more stuff, then the terrorists fnord have won. Wherever subliminal messaging might be successfully employed, I assure you, it is not in advertisements.

(fnord clueless mods may click here [wikipedia.org] fnord)

Re:They were outlawed in the US years ago.

[Technician (215283)]

http://www.blufr.com/?t=subliminal [blufr.com]

Until the practice was outlawed in 1993, movie theaters used to insert single-frame ads for concessions during the course of films to try to subliminally influence viewers to buy popcorn.