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U.S. Scientists Create Zombie Dogs
Posted by
timothy
on Mon Jun 27, 2005 02:58 PM
from the ooh-that's-chilly dept.
from the ooh-that's-chilly dept.
Alex_Ionescu writes "U.S. scientists have managed to revive dead dogs to life, by using a technique similar to cryogenation, in which the dogs' blood was drained and replaced by a cold, saline liquid. A couple of hours, their blood was replaced, and an electric shock brought them back to life with no brain damage. The technology will be tested on humans within the next year."
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well... (Score:5, Insightful)
The article is somewhat light on facts. From what I recall, during drowning or suffocation, brain damage occurs in humans quite soon (10 minutes?). How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur? Is it the temperature of the liquid used for replacing the blood?
Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?
I suppose we'll have to wait for a real scientific journal to publish this before we find out much more.
Also, another attempt at hibernation, this time in mice [washingtonpost.com], using a different method involving hydrogen sulfide gas.
Re:well... (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:well... (Score:5, Interesting)
Still, this is ubercreepy. Even the electrical shock at the end bit... sounds like 50s sci-fi. What's next? "The shock required is quite intense, so facilities doing this work will need to affix a lightning rod to their roof and wait for a storm..."?
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Re:well... (Score:5, Funny)
I can hear it now:
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Igor, would you mind telling me whose brain I did put in?
Igor: And you won't be angry?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: I will NOT be angry.
Igor: Abby someone.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Abby someone. Abby who?
Igor: Abby Normal.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Abby Normal?
Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Are you saying that I put an abnormal brain into a seven and a half foot long, fifty-four inch wide GORILLA? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME?
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a script (Score:5, Interesting)
We hear beeping sounds of monitoring devices; voices from the nearby nurse's station. The lighting is yellowish flourescent in the hallway for a sad, depressing atmosphere. It's a public hospital, so no one thought to have an interior designer make happy colors. The interior of the room is bright with white flouresent light.
POV: facing LAUREN, just inside doorway. She's just been crying and is still wearing her street clothes.
POV: LAUREN, looking into room.
ANDY has just been wheeled into the room with a major gun shot wound to the chest. The wound is covered by a washcloth and shows some blood, but not a lot. He's behind a curtain setup so only his lower body is clearly visible.
A NURSE (Asian female, early 30's) is facing away from us and is adjusting a piece of equipment.
A DOCTOR (White female, 40's) is facing away from us and illuminated behind the curtain. She's dictating into a tape recorder between probing ANDY's injuries: "Bleeding from perforation of the left thoracic cavity 8cm from center of sternum." Pause. "Fracture of the fourth thoracic rib." Pause. "Wound track and cavity visible. Left lung perforated approx. 4 cm from inner side." Long pause. "Laceration of the circumflex coronary artery. Fragment not found." Pauses tape. (To NURSE) "Get me the chest x-ray please." Starts tape and continues indistinctly.
Fade to black.
Fade back in. More people are in the room. An X-RAY TECHNICIAN (Black male, 30's) is wheeling out the x-ray machine. It's digital, so the results appear on a CRT monitor in the room. The DOCTOR and SURGEON (white male, 50 and graying) discuss the x-ray and gesture to parts of it. They are ignoring LAUREN, who is still standing in the doorway. Finally, DOCTOR comes over to LAUREN and removes her bloody gloves.
DOCTOR: Are you Mrs. Watters?
LAUREN: Yes.
DOCTOR: I'm going to explain what happened and what your options are.
LAUREN: (Bravely) ok.
Blood begins to drip onto the floor, which LAUREN doesn't notice but we do (center of frame between DOCTOR and LAUREN). NURSE puts absorbent towels onto the small pool that's forming.
DOCTOR: Your husband was shot in his chest area fairly close to his heart. The bleeding is serious and we're trying to stop it. The biggest problem is that the heart was injured and we can't repair it completely without stopping it.
NURSE comes up to both of them and stands there.
LAUREN: What does that mean?
DOCTOR: (ignoring her question) You have three options. The first option is for us to try open heart surgery. That is risky and means we have to stop the heart and use a heart-lung machine. The second option is for us to do what's called a "saline evacuation," which means we essentially put the body on ice for a couple of hours while we try to repair the heart. That's the most risky by far. The last option is for us to end treatment now.
LAUREN:
DOCTOR: I'm afraid I can't tell you that.
LAUREN: (Confused) Why not? I have no idea which one I should do.
DOCTOR: Liability reasons. (To NURSE) Come get me when she chooses.
DOCTOR leaves the room, giving the impression of indifference to ANDY's condition and LAUREN's confusion.
NURSE: Ok Mrs. Watters, you need to decide what to do now.
LAUREN: (Confused) Well what did she mean by "put him on ice?"
NURSE: It's where we take out all his blood and replace it with icewater.
LAUREN: (Dumbfounded). Doesn't that mean he would die?
NURSE: Not exactly. It's a technique they did a few years ago to save wounded army people. The heart stops but everything stays preserved and then you can restart the heart after surgery.
LAUREN: Surgery?
NURSE: To repair whatever damage there is. Your husband has a cut in his heart and they can't do anything about it as long as the heart's beating
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This hits home... (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the things the doctor told us was that they were going to actually induce hypothermia in him while he is in the ICU. Recent studies have provided evidence that doing so may limit the brain damage caused by the loss of oxygen to the brain. Of course, in his case, it was extremely important (and fortunate) that CPR was started soon after his heart stopped, thus limiting the loss of oxygen to his brain.
Hopefully studies like this will lead to more treatments which help people recover from heart failure.
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Re:well... (Score:5, Interesting)
So is there a temperature limit for metabolizing?
Cell death is of two kinds - apoptosis or necrosis. Apoptosis is programmed cell death (when the lysosomes break), whereas necrosis is due to cell damage - and in this case, lack of oxygen. Cells that die due to necrosis show a lower level of ATP - so it makes sense that the cell was trying to metabolize the remaining oxygen and ran out.
From here [bham.ac.uk], you can see that the increase in Ca2+ ions leads to chain of events that eventually leads to necrosis. Ca2+ ions over a certain threshold inhibits the energy and respiratory processes. I guess the question is, what is stopping the neuron from trying to metabolize?
What I'm assuming is that it takes longer for the blood in the body to cool down, during which time the neurons can continue metabolizing. But when the temperature is suddenly lowered to 7C, metabolysis stops? But we couldn't just quickly lower the temperature of the body to 7C because it would take > 5 min for the blood to cool.
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brains.... brains.... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Here's the scene... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:well... (Score:5, Informative)
They were refering to the use of this in medical emergencies. Put someone into this state, work on the damaged tissue with no bleeding or time crunch, then revive when they are fixed.
I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...
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Re:well... (Score:5, Insightful)
A mortally wounded gunshot victim?
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Re:well... (Score:5, Informative)
The evil government experiment was the Tuskegee syphilus study. They told residents of Tuskegee that they would receive free syphilus treatment and then treatment was withheld so the effects of syphilus could be scientifically documented and studied.
I do not know if any of the Tuskegee Airmen (the only black squadron -- or the first, I don't remember -- in WWII) were in the study also, but they are not the same thing at all.
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Re:well... (Score:5, Funny)
George Romero? [imdb.com]
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Re:well... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:well... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the sort of person who will volunteer. A person who has nothing to lose if the procedure fails, but everything to gain if it succeeds.
KFG
P.S. I got better.
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Re:well... (Score:5, Funny)
So what... they kill them, bring them back to life, and kill them again? That explains the concept of being given multiple sentences of death
Besides... from what I heard, as soon as the dogs were brought back, they immediately headed to the nearest computer and started incessently sending out bulk email.
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Re:well... (Score:5, Funny)
It could also be very convenient. Suppose not all the grieving relatives were able to make it to the execution. You could stage it again, possibly even closer to their homes. Think of the possibilities.
OK, I'll go sit in the corner and take my sense of humour with me.
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Not just ER Patients... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:well... (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally I think the fluids would just drain out of whatever wounds you do have.
I think a better application of this technology will be for these multi-hour operations where they want to repair heart defects or do transplants, in which they currently induce hypothermic states.
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Re:well... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:well... (Score:5, Informative)
The 10 minute limit is for slow suffocation at normal temperatures. Two things happen:
- First, many of the tiny valves controlling the distribution of blood in the brain capilaries shut, trying to route the remaining oxygen to the neurons controlling things like breathing and heart rate.
These valves are tiny muscles, which, once contracted, require power (from metabolization) to reopen. Let them be oxygen-starved for too long - about ten minutes - and they get stuck closed. Then, even once oxygen is restored, the blood remains cut off to the areas they control. (It does no good to raise the blood pressure to try to force blood past them: You'll blow the plumbing before they leak. Massive stroke.)
- Second: As with the muscles, the neurons have continuous chemical reactions going on that cause damage that must be cleaned up by active, powered, systems. Turn down the oxygen while leaving the temperature up and the cleanup systems fail while the damage mechanisms continue. (Firing the nerve uses up additional power, making the problem worse.)
Let this go on for more than half an hour or so without turning the air back on and the damage gets ahead of the nerve's ability to repair it - causing cell death. That ruptures the cell and releases a glutamate - which tends to force other nearby nerves to fire, consuming their resources and speeding their death, in the "glutamate chain reaction". This easily gets started in regions of the brain fed by still-shut-off plumbing. But with enough glutimate dumped it can spread to nearby areas that have adequate oxygen - because it's not adequate to keep ahead of the massive firing and cell exhaustion.
The first mechanism sets the normal time limit. But the second is the final catastrophe.
But diving sets up a condition much like suffocation upon resurfacing: Swimming underwater pressurizes the gas in the lungs, and the organism can remain active for some time before it starts to run out of oxygen. But then it takes time to get back to the surface - and the lowered pressure on the ascent causes oxygen levels in the blood and tissue to crash. Not good.
Evolution came up with a workaround: The "mamilian diving reflex", so called because it's characteristic of all mamals - happened a LONG time back.
When the reflex detects a deep dive (cold on the skin - especially on the back of the neck, I think), it modifies the valves' reaction to overall oxygen shortage: Instead of shutting off blood to "unimportant" (for respiration) parts of the brain, it causes ALL the valves to OPEN. Then if they stick they stick open. This risks speeding respiratory failure. But once (if) oxygen is restored, it allows it to reach ALL the brain. Get oxygen back before the cells start dying (after a half hour or so) and they all get the power they nead to clean up and get on with life.
So if you drown in COLD water you can be breathing-stopped for a half-hour or a bit more and still be restarted with no long-term brain damage.
This treatment seems to extend on that: Flooding with cold saline will activate the diving reflex, sticking the valves open. Then the rapid oxygen loss will shut down all energy-driven metabolism - both the repair and some of the damage-makers.
Meanwhile, the deep cooling of the tissue (to essentially refrigerator temperatures) will slow the other damaging chemical reactions, just as refrigeration slows meat spoilage. (It IS slowing meat spoilage! And 7C is about 45F, close to the 40F recommended for refrigerator settings.) This is probably the main factor in getting past the half-hour limit on cold-drowning.
Separate storage of the blood allows the replacement fluid to be optimized to cool the rest of the body at a more rapid rate than could be accom
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death and taxes (Score:5, Funny)
Re:death and taxes (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:death and taxes (Score:5, Funny)
That's how you can tell these zombie scientists are liberals. Republican scientists would have tackled taxes first.
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Ralston-Purina has responded (Score:5, Funny)
Oh no! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh no! (Score:5, Funny)
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Big Deal (Score:5, Funny)
Volunteers (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Big Deal (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, so that's what happened. Do you know when the plan to revive him?
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Russians were doing this in 1940 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Russians were doing this in 1940 (Score:5, Funny)
Monday: U.S. scientists announce a new discovery.
Tuesday: Pravda reports that Soviet scientists discovered it 20 years ago.
Thursday: German engineers invent a device that puts the discovery to use.
Friday: Japan exports the device to the U.S.
If only I could remember what happened on Wednesday...
* Last heard this one back in the early 1980's, if that helps put the stereotypes in context.
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Brains!? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Brains!? (Score:5, Funny)
Dogs don't know it's not brains!
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Dear Mister Romero... (Score:4, Funny)
George, baby, love that flick in the theaters now. Yeah, brilliant baby, that whole cpaitalist pig dog thing, and the gore, man you are the best...
George, baby, I was wondering if we could take lunch next week with you and Stephen. Yeah, we got this new story based on real life, we think it's right up your alley...
Attn: Postal Workers... (Score:5, Funny)
The Bad: Normal dogs will not attempt to eat your juicy, delicious brain.
I can't wait (Score:5, Funny)
What do vegetarian zombies say? (Score:5, Funny)
Has to do with the oxygen level (Score:5, Informative)
Hence the reason for injecting saline -- it takes the oxygen-carrying blood out of the tisses almost immediately, which is what you want to do. The SA article authors said this seems a little extreme to use in humans, and I agree. They've had some success with mice using Hydrogen Sulfide, I think, mixed in with air. Also, surgery for animals that are "dead" brings in a whole new line of specialties that we haven't developed yet. This is going to be a fascinating area to watch, imo.
But don't call it godless necromancy! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:But don't call it godless necromancy! (Score:5, Funny)
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ObNethack (Score:5, Funny)
What do you want to #rub?
(w) - saline liquid
What do you want to rub the vial of saline liquid with?
(Q) - wand of cold
The vial glows briefly.
What do you want to wield?
(w) - saline liquid (cold)
You break the vial over the little dog's head. --more--
The little dog yelps! --more--
The little dog falls asleep.
The zombie dog awakens! The zombie dog bites! --more--
The zombie dog bites!
High Quality News Source (Score:5, Insightful)
12-year-old girl gets divorce
Goats recruited to fight bushfires
Scientists create robot lobster
The most dangerous day of the week
Cookie trail leads to suspects
Soldiers steal tank to buy vodka
Bonking, brawls and booze
Man gets $2600 for plaster Jesus
New shop to turn away the rich
Sticky stunt's disastrous end
Drop the story and move on
Re:Not On Me. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Not On Me. (Score:5, Funny)
From what I understand, the dogs can't fetch very far either.
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Re:No brain damage (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would you want to freeze someone indefinately? Let's go for a Sci-Fi answer since we're dealing with a near-Sci-Fi topic. Let's say that you've got the aging examples of some really prize breedings from a particular bloodline (I'm talking dogs here). And then, something ugly not unlike hoof-and-mouth, or bird flu starts turning in a species-specific pandemic. If I were a breeder that had been perfecting a bloodline for 50 years, I'd seriously consider taking a couple of those dogs and letting them have A Big Nap.
For a lot of breeders, they love the individual dogs, but their truly beloved "pet" is the bloodline out of which they spring. Generations (of human lives) go into creating something as unique as a specialized dog (or bull, or chicken), so ways to put them on ice for later revival once a viral or other threat has been understood (or a vaccine developed) could be very compelling.
I'd say all the same things about humans, but I'd be very Politically Incorrect at that point, so of course I won't.
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Re:Fake, but hilarious! (Score:5, Informative)
Some better links are here [pitt.edu], here [pulmonaryreviews.com], and here [post-gazette.com].
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Re:I call "bullshit" on this article. (Score:5, Informative)
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Alvaro Garza, Fargo ND, 1987 (Score:5, Informative)
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