Cannabis Researchers Say It's High Time To Drop 'Lazy Stoner' Stereotype (theguardian.com) 183
Cannabis users are often depicted as lazy "stoners" whose life ambitions span little further than lying on the sofa eating crisps. But research from the University of Cambridge challenges this stereotype, showing that regular users appear no more likely to lack motivation compared with non-users. From a report: The research also found no difference in motivation for rewards, pleasure taken from rewards, or the brain's response when seeking rewards, compared with non-users. "We're so used to seeing 'lazy stoners' on our screens that we don't stop to ask whether they're an accurate representation," said Martine Skumlien, a PhD student at the University of Cambridge and the research's first author. "Our work implies that ... people who use cannabis are no more likely to lack motivation or be lazier than people who don't."
Skumlien said smoking cannabis could be associated with other downsides, but that the stoner stereotype is "stigmatising" and could make messages around harm reduction less effective. "We need to be honest and frank about what are and are not the harmful consequences of drug use," she added. Cannabis is the third most commonly used controlled substance worldwide, after alcohol and nicotine, with a 2018 NHS report finding that almost one in five (19%) of 15-year-olds in England had used cannabis in the previous 12 months.
Skumlien said smoking cannabis could be associated with other downsides, but that the stoner stereotype is "stigmatising" and could make messages around harm reduction less effective. "We need to be honest and frank about what are and are not the harmful consequences of drug use," she added. Cannabis is the third most commonly used controlled substance worldwide, after alcohol and nicotine, with a 2018 NHS report finding that almost one in five (19%) of 15-year-olds in England had used cannabis in the previous 12 months.
Maybe it's the drugs (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps we have an answer to the question my high school chemistry teacher posed, in frustration, some 20 years ago:
"What the hell is with the kids these days and their basic inability to process information? Is it something in the water?"
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Sure, buddy
The truth of the matter is that analytical science classes are there to teach people how to process information
Having been raised by teachers, I would be surprised if your chem teacher did not already know that
It is sad that you don't
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'Lazy Stoner'
I see what they did there.
Re:Maybe it's the drugs (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a bit older and my teacher said,
"[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.
...
They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it."
— Aristotle, 4th century BCE
Re:Maybe it's the drugs (Score:5, Interesting)
Does indeed describe things nicely. One reason that a major part of educating engineers (which are typically young at that time) is to demonstrate them the limits of things including their own limits. And to not let those that fail this lesson graduate, because they will end up killing people.
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To be fair, his student was Alexander the Great, who never really did get humbled by life.
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To be fair, his students did lead a violent anti-democracy movement, and were then in turn killed.
Re:Maybe it's the drugs (Score:4, Informative)
Perhaps we have an answer to the question my high school chemistry teacher posed, in frustration, some 20 years ago:
"What the hell is with the kids these days and their basic inability to process information?
'Twas ever thus. It has nothing to do with the kids [discovermagazine.com].
Oblig: (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." -- Socrates, 469 - 399 B.C.
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I've often felt that an early sign of senility is to become obsessed with disparaging "young people"
The only suitable reply (Score:5, Funny)
... but then I got high.
My post is modded down to -1 and I know why.
(Why man?)
Because I got high, because I got high, Because I got high
That's just like... (Score:3)
uuhhh... their opinion... man.
Dunno bout y'alls.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Dunno about y'alls, y'know, different states, different countries, but..
I know a few IT people. A few dozen. Some closely.
Most are stoners. Long-time stoners. And are perfectly cromulent engineers, admins and other disciplines in IT.
Lazy Stoner's a nice trope, esp. if you think of a Jeff Spicoli or Hayley Smith or even good old Cheech and Chong... but those were the70's. Those stoners got jobs now. Some still have hair down to their ass, but still do the job, and do it better than most.
All I say is don't work stoned. Once off the clock.. whatevs. Blaze up.
Posting anon because most orgs still think weed is bad.
Re:Dunno bout y'alls.. (Score:5, Informative)
Every single organization in the US that receives any form of government funding is REQUIRED to stigmatize drug use via the Drug Free Workplace Act of 1988 [wikipedia.org] which was part of the Reagan War on Drugs/Just Say No campaigns
This resulted in generations of workers learning to hide their cannabis use and never communicate that use beyond a small group of friends. This control over workers is disappearing as more states legalize, but HR teams still follow those rules and most workers could lose their job by letting anybody in the workplace know that they use cannabis in their off hours
Hopefully, we will finally see cannabis legalization at the federal level, along with the elimination of the thousands of catch-22's that have been inserted into grants contracts that threaten honest communication about the use of cannabis outside the workplace.
Re: Dunno bout y'alls.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Thing is, the common and overt display of enthusiasm and proclivity for advocacy tends to be strongest among those who don't generally display acumen in other aspects of life. Those whom are highly functional while still consumers don't generally integrate their consumption in as a core tenet of their being. There are exceptions of course, but for many it's taken on an almost religious significance in its scale and scope, and when someone makes major life decisions where consideration of marijuana use causes opportunities to be turned down, that's a problem.
Re: Dunno bout y'alls.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, fanatics of all stripes are problematic. It's really not unique to cannabis.
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As someone that used to use Cannabis to cope with stress running IT for an auction house that would have millions of live tv viewers and cameras filming outages whether you knew what the cause or not was I can absolutely say that it can be extremely beneficial and that goes double for the developers I worked with as some coding mistakes have meant a few million dollars would end up in the wrong account or leave the company on the hooks for thousands in taxes.
The one developer I had that indeed never touche
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You left out a few other things. Like religion.
The fact is nearly everyone has something that has taken over a large share of their life. Often there's a legitimate reason. This doesn't mean or imply that they made the best choice, but they made the best choice they thought they had available. It's worth remembering that more than a few people chose suicide, and perhaps one of those other choices would have been better.
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Biden could remove it from Schedule I classification tomorrow, but he won't. Too many large corporate interests enjoy it being illegal, such as bankers, tobacco execs, and the prison industry, plus what would the cops do with all their spare time?
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The bankers? I understand the others but why do you call out the bankers on wanting pot to be illegal? I don't get it. What do they have to do with it?
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Imagine how many loans are in place to drug testing facilities, drug counseling companies, vendors to police and military, etc... that would be abandoned if cannabis was legal
That is a huge part of the problem and the reason that the Senate banking subcommittees are where cannabis legalization bills go to die
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Laundering money is a huge business. They make 10%-15% on the TRILLION dollars that gets laundered through the US banking system every year. It's so profitable that Clinton's Treasury Secretary went directly from "public service" to CitiCorp's "private banking" division, where he then engineered it's takeover of Banamex, aka "The drug smuggler's bank of choice", with its valuable customer list.
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The human brain is evolved to absorb and process psilocybin. Scholars show evidence that it is directly responsible for part of our evolutionary track. There are hundreds of studies that prove the increase in mental elasticity and the immediate therapeutic benefits of this drug. Mushrooms do not contain tar which is the component of smoking that is most responsible for respiratory illness. The rise in the acceptance of cannabis comes at the tail end of the vilification of tobacco. The fact that TPTB are in
Re:Dunno bout y'alls.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have noted that many of my fellow inventors of technology are painfully shy and am not surprised that a significant percentage self medicate. While weed is probably mostly benign, it does reduce productivity.
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While weed is probably mostly benign, it does reduce productivity.
Sure if you smoke it while you're trying to be productive. If you smoking it in the evening while watching a good movie that's not much of an issue though.
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On a quick skim it looks like your link is about the effects on kids developing minds so isn't really about what we're talking about
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Not me, unless you exclusively mean high concentration type productivity. I'll build an entire greenhouse or make a custom cane while stoned, and have a great time doing it. Don't expect me to program a new security system when I'm high, but I'll build you a great chicken coop.
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Same here
Came to post the same (Score:5, Interesting)
I was going say the same thing, I kind of bought into the lazy stoner trope until I found out a number of people I knew in IT through the years (developers and system admins) all liked recreational weed. Most of them were extremely competent and none I would describe as anywhere near lazy...
That's why I really don't think any drugs should be illegal, because for any given drug there are people capable of handling it responsibly - and you want people who can't to be able to get help without worry of judgement or legal issues.
The people that actually are lazy stoners, I am pretty sure would be lazy without weed also, just maybe not quite as happy.
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That's why I really don't think any drugs should be illegal, because for any given drug there are people capable of handling it responsibly
And all the others get behind the wheel of a car.
I'm totally for the legalization of all drugs just to stop us from wasting $billion money, making drug cartels rich, getting rid of all the crime that's committed to get the next hit.
But I don't have a solution for all the people who are going to drive while high and kill other people. Do you?
(Maybe self-driving cars will solve this? I only know the solution doesn't lie in relying on the good will of the people...)
Re:Came to post the same (Score:5, Informative)
And all the others get behind the wheel of a car.
I'm totally for the legalization of all drugs just to stop us from wasting $billion money, making drug cartels rich, getting rid of all the crime that's committed to get the next hit.
But I don't have a solution for all the people who are going to drive while high and kill other people. Do you?
Well, we could drug test [phys.org] those involved in accidents in much the same way we breathalyse them. Does this address your objection?
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Two problems
1. Most drug tests for cannabis show past used because they are detecting metabolites and do not show current intoxication
2. Reporting on cannabis use related to accidents does not indicate the type of test used
So, the numbers for cannabis related accidents are horribly inflated, and in most cases also involve alcohol use
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I'm not aware of a solution to that, even with prohibition.
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I didn't realize it was possible to be competent at IT without being lazy.
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It's almost as if people that use cannabis are.. Normal people. That you would see on the street every day.
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It's almost as if people that use cannabis are.. Normal people. That you would see on the street every day.
The average non drug user deals with so many people in their day to day life who not only use drugs, but many who are even actively buzzed, and they have absolutely no idea whatsoever.
Re:Dunno bout y'alls.. (Score:4, Interesting)
One of my favorite things is to get stoned and then DO SOMETHING. Pretty much anything, paint a bedroom, weed the garden, go for a walk, cook, go fishing, whatever. Sitting on the couch is a waste of good weed.
Physical activity is fun on weed (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot of people dont realize but once you get moving physical activity is quite enjoyable on weed. I enjoy it on long hikes or on a heavy workout session on my rowing machine.
I remember before I realized this for myself seeing a video of Arnold Schwarzenegger when he was young lifting weights and smoking grass and thought it was the strangest thing to do high but I've since realized that pot smoking and physical activity are actually quite complimentary experiences.
Hmm ok (Score:3, Insightful)
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The long term stoners I know became no more productive when not using, even for months at a time. You've got correlation and causation mixed up.
Re:Hmm ok (Score:5, Insightful)
The long term stoners I know became no more productive when not using, even for months at a time. You've got correlation and causation mixed up.
Since everyone is swapping anecdotes - my experience has been the opposite. I've only known a couple of people that gave marijuana up long term, but the (positive) change became quite apparent after a year or two.
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I’ve found the opposite.
My first boss started smoking and turned into a real,dullard.
My brother smoked for a while, same thing, happy but slow.
Re:Hmm ok (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect that most of the long term stoners that you know, do not let you know that they use it, AND that the people that you think are long term stoners, actually have other issues that are affecting them... but sure, let your prejudices mislead you, if that makes you happy
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Open long-term stoners hit the trend. Closed long-term stoners don't. You may be surprised by the number of truly productive people you know who use cannabis on a regular basis. I know of five in my place of business, but not a one of them makes public statements about it, nor do they make it an obvious habit. It's on lock, at home, and we chat casually about it because they know I don't judge so long as the work gets done.
Then there's the open dudes on the floor that fit the stereotype to a tee. They don't
Re: Hmm ok (Score:2)
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I remember a department head for the company I work for echoing similar sentiments a couple of years ago. I was cracking up inside when he said it though because there are several regular pot smokers at our company that were not only universally thought of as quality employees but he had openly praised these people's work and work ethic on multiple occasions. The guy didnt have a fucking clue...
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Different people have different reactions. My mother had a couple of tenants who fit every piece of the typical stereotype, except that they were rural rather than urban. Oh, and they were white, in case race is a part of your stereotype. And a friend had a son who went into (occasionally pleasant) psychotic episodes when he got stoned. He wasn't violent, but he sure wasn't rational. And after being down for awhile, he was strongly attracted to getting stoned again.
Now I'll grant you, that these are un
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Sometimes, when you have been treating people unjustly, it is really hard to see it yourself
On the other hand (Score:3)
They do smell like cat piss.
And cigarette smoking does not cause cancer.. (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/new... [imperial.ac.uk]
https://thebrainclinic.com/mar... [thebrainclinic.com]
https://www.verywellmind.com/e... [verywellmind.com]
and the list goes on..
Re:And cigarette smoking does not cause cancer.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I know plenty of people who partake - not a single one started as an adult. I drank as a minor as well, so did virtually every I knew and know today. Social drinking and drug usage starts as minors, as does smoking. I remember kids smoking in elemtry school, like 3 or 4th grade. I don't know where you got on your high horse, but you need to come back to reality.
The same people that claim alcohol is good for you (Score:5, Insightful)
Tobacco Researchers Say... (Score:2)
Unsurprisingly few sceptics.
Oh, and expect down mods.
Drugs and tech are no strangers... (Score:5, Insightful)
I know... I know... anecdotes versus data and all that... but this is really a "Paging Doctor Obvious" to anyone who works in tech.
I've worked in the Bay Area for most of my career. And yeah... if tech companies ever started drug testing as an employment condition, Silicon Valley would pretty much grind to a halt. And it wouldn't just be pot that they'd find; though yeah, it's be mostly pot. But even here, the "lazy stoner" stereotype does have its legitimacy. I know some people who are high-functioning on the stuff. But it really depends a lot on the individual person. When I'm high, forget any functioning at all. It basically shuts me down, sticks me to the couch or bed, makes the late-night comedies even more funny, and puts me to sleep. Often it makes me too lazy even to get to the cupboard to engage in that similarly stereotypical bag of Doritos. But that's okay... as an insomniac, pot being the off-switch I press before bed to shut down for the night is actually my desired result.
Re:Drugs and tech are no strangers... (Score:4, Insightful)
Considering the stories of piss shit software coming out of Silicon Valley we read about almost every day, this would be a bad thing how?
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Anecdotal but... (Score:2)
Their research does not even slightly coincide with my own first-hand experiences.
It seems clear to me that the stereotype exists for a good reason.
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Just to cancel out your anecdote - many of my good friends (and myself) are regular users of cannabis, and sometimes other things too. We're in the middle of our careers (mid 30s), and quite successful. I'm talking 6 figure+ salaries, regular promotions or job moves to better things, raises, etc.
Weed certainly makes me lazy and a little dumber in the moment, but I've noticed no long term effects, and I don't work high anymore than I work drunk (which is not at all). Most people would never know it by looki
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Weed certainly makes me lazy and a little dumber in the moment, but I've noticed no long term effects, and I don't work high anymore than I work drunk (which is not at all).
I can code while drunk but I couldn't write a Hello World on weed.
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Have you ever considered you'd be making 7 figures instead of 6 if you weren't smoking out?
I absolutely would not. I have hit a sweet spot in my career where in my current position I make more than enough to cover my needs (both immediate and long term/retirement), but is also flexible enough to let me live my life. I can structure my own hours, work with a great group of people, and am engaged in what I do. More money is not a priority, whether or not I choose to smoke a little weed on my downtime.
Just to provide a fuller picture on me: I am wonderfully engaged in my life - with many hobbies (
Tobacco vs Cannabis (Score:3)
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It's as socially acceptable as drinking on the street as in it really isnt but people still do it anyways.
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Really. Skunkweed smell on the sidewalk, in traffic, at the drive-thru - everywhere now, and it's not even legal here yet.
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What I really want to know is why has smoking pot in public has become socially acceptable while smoking tobacco is not? When I was in NYC recently, I cannot recall smelling any tobacco while walking on the street but definitely smelled pot several times a day. In some areas the concentration was really intense.
Couple of things here, but direct answer: people have been doing what the F they want in public since COVID started.
It seemed, once we were wearing masks like the smoking ban was gone.
Last note: remember what Pepe says in Muppets from Space "Smoking is very bad for you m'kay?" --- since there are other options, why burn your lungs?
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What I really want to know is why
Stop detecting double standards. We have things the way we want them and you need to quit messing with it.
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I don't think permitting smoking either in public is great, but if you're going to have one or the other, it has to be cannabis. It's just strictly less toxic.
I say ban all public smoking, including smoking in your car with the windows down. (If it's so great, you can keep the windows up.)
Reality is always more nuanced. (Score:3)
I know fully functional people that smoke pot occasionally, and I also know some lazy deadbeats that smoke pot. In the latter case, it's unclear whether the pot is a contributory factor or if it's an extension of a lifestyle that was already there to begin with. I am guessing that pot use will exacerbate a certain personality type already prone to addiction and lethargy. It's hard not to make that assumption because that's what it looks like when you see it.
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High time? eh? (Score:4, Funny)
But I got the munchies... had a snack and then I come back to post my witty reply its like ... 4 hours... How? Just a bag of chips, and some salsa and looking for the left over pizza ... took four hours.. whatever...
Heavy users in collage (Score:2)
From what I remember, classmates who became heavy users had problems keeping up their grades and were expelled. I know it was a small data sample, but I have no reason to believe their experience was unique.
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You just knew some lazy people, and I just know some leaders in tech. And as the report claims, it has nothing to do with marijuana.
From my experience, if you were lazy before you tried marijuana, you'll be just as lazy if not more on marijuana. If you're high functioning before trying marijuana, you're likely to be even more high functioni
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Original comment says "heavy users". The same would be true of "heavy users" of alcohol.
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Collage?
Sir, you have just been selected for a random drug test, here is your slip, please go straight to Concentra for testing and do not return to work until HR contacts you
Obviously tainted research (Score:3)
This kind of research is always so blatantly obvious as to what the "researchers" *really* want to do: Get paid to smoke weed. Also this is probably someone's UK tax dollars hard at work.
Hemp is federally legal. (Score:2)
I don't consume it myself, but I live in a state where weed is legal and I'm under the impression that because Hemp is now federally legal that it's basically impossible to tell which of the two you are smoking if you fail a drug test, as simply saying "Its from federally legal hemp I bought legally on amazon" is a legit response, and I know people who have shown me receipts from amazon selling them federally legal hemp distillate vapes and hemp cigarettes and gummies to prove it.
I have also seen people con
Stereotypes (Score:3)
The main reason to avoid stereotypes is because the people who are being stereotyped don't like them, and the reason they don't like them is because they are true. Truth hurts. Truth is violent. Down with truth!
Re:Stereotypes (Score:5, Insightful)
No. The reason to avoid stereotypes is to avoid making mistakes. The reason to use them is that they''re quick, slovenly, shortcuts and you don't care whether you make mistakes.
Sometimes stereotypes are the correct heuristic, but you need to be aware that they *ARE* a heuristic, and that they have an error rate. If you care about what you're doing, you'll care what that error rate is.
This is a claim that one particular heuristic has a high error rate.
Ya, but ... (Score:2)
High Time To Drop 'Lazy Stoner' Stereotype
Where will Ted Cruz find his stoner, slacker baristas [twitter.com] to complain about?
If you are that slacker barista who wasted seven years in college ... ... it could drive up turnout.
if you can get off the bong for a minute
They are British stoners (Score:2)
They are eating crisps.
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Not Democracy chips [slashdot.org]?
it's important to kill unjustified stereotypes (Score:2)
...Except when, you know, they are basically true.
Sure, I know one occasional pot user who is normal.
The others? "lazy "stoners" whose life ambitions span little further than lying on the sofa eating crisps. "
I'll take my life experience over your spun data any day, sir.
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You just know some lazy people - they were lazy do-nothings before marijuana, and they are after.
Then it would seem that lazy people are particularly drawn to mj; I've never met anyone that smoked it daily that I would trust to tie their own shoelaces. Assuming they had remembered to put their shoes on.
I work with glassblowers, they all smoke weed (Score:2)
They may be slow to get started but once the flame is lit, I've never seen a better team of focused, disciplined workers
So, instead of... (Score:2)
These rewards (Score:2)
Would they include the next bong hit? Because, yes. They are highly motivated.
Cannabis Researchers Say (Score:2)
Why do they need to say anything? Legalize it and let the chips fall where they may. If they can do the work, fine. But if they are one of those "focused" workers, there's only so much you can get done staring at one little piece of code.
It's not even respected as a medicine! (Score:2)
Bill Hicks knew this (Score:4, Interesting)
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