VR Is As Good As Psychedelics At Helping People Reach Transcendence (technologyreview.com) 51
David Glowacki, an artist and computational molecular physicist, has created a VR experience called Isness-D that aims to recapture a transcendence experience he had when he fell in the mountains fifteen years ago. "[O]n four key indicators used in studies of psychedelics, the program showed the same effect as a medium dose of LSD or psilocybin (the main psychoactive component of 'magic' mushrooms)," reports MIT Technology Review. From the report: Isness-D is designed for groups of four to five people based anywhere in the world. Each participant is represented as a diffuse cloud of smoke with a ball of light right about where a person's heart would be. Participants can partake in an experience called energetic coalescence: they gather in the same spot in the virtual-reality landscape to overlap their diffuse bodies, making it impossible to tell where each person begins and ends. The resulting sense of deep connectedness and ego attenuation mirrors feelings commonly brought about by a psychedelic experience.
[...] To create it, Glowacki took aesthetic inspiration from quantum mechanics -- as he puts it, "where the definition of what's matter and what's energy starts to become blurred." For their paper, Glowacki and his collaborators measured the emotional response Isness-D elicited in 75 participants. They based their measurements on four metrics used in psychedelics research -- the MEQ30 (a mystical experience questionnaire), the ego dissolution inventory scale, the "communitas" scale, and the "inclusion of community in self" scale. Communitas is defined as an experience of intense shared humanity that transcends social structure. Participants' responses were then compared with those given in published, double-blind psychedelics studies. For all four metrics, Isness-D elicited responses indistinguishable from those associated with medium doses of psychedelics. On the mystical experience scale, Isness-D participants reported an experience as intense as that elicited by 20 milligrams of psilocybin or 200 micrograms of LSD, and stronger than that induced by microdoses of either substance. The findings have been published in the journal Nature Scientific Reports.
[...] To create it, Glowacki took aesthetic inspiration from quantum mechanics -- as he puts it, "where the definition of what's matter and what's energy starts to become blurred." For their paper, Glowacki and his collaborators measured the emotional response Isness-D elicited in 75 participants. They based their measurements on four metrics used in psychedelics research -- the MEQ30 (a mystical experience questionnaire), the ego dissolution inventory scale, the "communitas" scale, and the "inclusion of community in self" scale. Communitas is defined as an experience of intense shared humanity that transcends social structure. Participants' responses were then compared with those given in published, double-blind psychedelics studies. For all four metrics, Isness-D elicited responses indistinguishable from those associated with medium doses of psychedelics. On the mystical experience scale, Isness-D participants reported an experience as intense as that elicited by 20 milligrams of psilocybin or 200 micrograms of LSD, and stronger than that induced by microdoses of either substance. The findings have been published in the journal Nature Scientific Reports.
omg ... (Score:5, Interesting)
... someone give these geniuses a few mushrooms so they actually know what they're talking about.
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This sounds more like the 21st century version of Self hypnosis. [healthline.com]
I'd like to see how his MEQ30 questionnaires correlate with the results from Hypnosis, Meditation, and Self-Induced Cognitive Trances [frontiersin.org] and other studies.
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While I agree this sounds like a lot of bullshit. It does sound like a step closer to Gibson's writhing VR sex pits - I might be game for that, post monkeypox ;)
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It's not supposed to be the same. The summary is misleadingly edited to make it sound like it is. The full article is much clearer.
Glowacki didn't design Isness-D with the goal of replicating a psychedelic trip. But he was interested in using VR to produce something psychedelics reliably elicit--what's known as a "self-transcendent experience."
Self-transcendent experiences exist on a spectrum. Getting lost in a great book could be considered a weak one; the ego death that high doses of psychedelics can induce is on the opposite end. In psychedelic clinical trials, people who report more intense feelings of self-transcendence typically also see the most significant symptom improvements.
What marks a self-transcendent experience is the dissolution of our typical self-definition as a discrete individual, separate from other people and the environment. During such an experience, a deep feeling of unity with other people or your surroundings allows you to expand your self-concept to include them.
There are many routes to a self-transcendent experience. Near-death experiences like Glowacki's often momentarily blur the boundaries of the self. The overview effect--the feeling astronauts reliably report after seeing Earth from space--creates a sense of connection with humanity as a whole. Meditation can also help people reach self-transcendence.
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It's not supposed to be the same. The summary is misleadingly edited to make it sound like it is. The full article is much clearer.
is it, though? do you really find that metric about "transcendence" meaningful?
to quote another poster in this thread:
"This study more likely exposes is the inability of the "four metrics used in psychedelics research" to capture the essence of the psychedelic drug experience"
https://science.slashdot.org/c... [slashdot.org]
and to honor your sig: i did try to digest the paper. at first i thought it was a hoax. then i found out about "Ego-dissolution inventory" actually being a thing amongst psychologists, and somehow the p
Sponsered By Meta! (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't believe this for a second.
When you eat shrooms or acid, you aren't coming down until the experience is over. That is part of it. With a VR headset, you take that thing off when you're hungry and/or bored.
This sounds like the precursor to a marketing campaign and a lobbying effort in order to sell more of this junk and push it on children and hospitals.
"Billy, GET OFF THE TECH!"
"But mom, I was just tripping a little bit... Come on!"
My guess is Meta sponsored this.
--
But are not the dreams of poets and the tales of travellers notoriously false? - H. P. Lovecraft
Re:Sponsered By Meta! (Score:5, Funny)
With a VR headset, you take that thing off when you're hungry and/or bored.
I don't know about that. When I take my VR headset off I'm quite flustered and tired for a good 15-30min and my penis refuses to get hard.
Future of religion? (Score:2)
Tell us you've never had shrooms or DMT (Score:5, Insightful)
Where to download Isness-D (Score:4, Informative)
Narupa consists of two components, the python-based libraries for running simulations, narupa-server, and the Unity3D libraries and applications for visualising and interacting with simulations in VR.
https://gitlab.com/intangibler... [gitlab.com]
This is what i found so far.
Re:Where to download Isness-D (Score:4)
Here's how a normal game dev would describe that:
>Yeah come to this world in VRChat and choose this avatar that's got a bunch of particle emitters on it. Show other people's shaders, then hit play on the video player when you're ready
Attack of the killer app (Score:1)
Isness-D is designed for groups of four to five people based anywhere in the world. Each participant is represented as a diffuse cloud of smoke with a ball of light right about where a person's heart would be. Participants can partake in an experience called energetic coalescence: they gather in the same spot in the virtual-reality landscape to overlap their diffuse bodies, making it impossible to tell where each person begins and ends. The resulting sense of deep connectedness and ego attenuation mirrors feelings commonly brought about by a psychedelic experience.
Yep, they've finally done it. This is truly the killer app for VR - a really fucking blurry version of inviting people over to your Animal Crossing island. [eurogamer.net]
Mystical Experiences (Score:1)
So Says VR-Rig Suppliers (Score:5, Interesting)
someone else's trip (Score:2)
Re: someone else's trip (Score:2)
But what if instead you could get some of the good feels without worrying about self inspection?
Set and Setting (Score:4, Insightful)
The psychedelic drug user's mindset and physical/social setting are important factors in determining the user's experience. A psychedelic trip is an intensely personal experience. It is this intimacy that underlies the life-changing experiences that are reported.
By contrast, the subsequent impact of transcendent VR will never impact its users beyond memories of a fun evening wearing goggles and holding batons. This study more likely exposes is the inability of the "four metrics used in psychedelics research" to capture the essence of the psychedelic drug experience.
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This study more likely exposes is the inability of the "four metrics used in psychedelics research" to capture the essence of the psychedelic drug experience.
Or your gross overestimation of the complexity of the neurological changes caused after installing a fucking scrambler in between your neurons.
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This study more likely exposes is the inability of the "four metrics used in psychedelics research" to capture the essence of the psychedelic drug experience
nail. head. mushroom.
Is that a good thing? (Score:4, Interesting)
If we create sensory experiences that replicate effects of drugs, won't even more people disengage from reality with all the attendant consequences. Social media addiction is already a big thing and Meta is incentivized to keep people plugged in for profit. The may be valid therapeutic uses, but will people really stick with those?
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If we create sensory experiences that replicate effects of drugs, won't even more people disengage from reality with all the attendant consequences.
I doubt it. One of the main reasons people take drugs is that they alter the user's perception of what is entertaining/enjoyable. Without the chemical interactions of the drug altering your perception to make you think the pretty light show is the greatest thing you've ever experienced, you might actually just be... bored.
That kinda reminds me of that one Stargate SG1 episode [fandom.com].
Re:Is that a good thing? (Score:4, Informative)
DMT and LSD aren't really addictive.
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Well I am at one with your comment, that's for sure.
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http://www.rationalpsychonaut.... [rationalpsychonaut.com] would like a word.
In other words (Score:1)
.. it doesn't do anything. Nobody's reached actual transcendence. If someone has, all the world's problems would be over.
Re: In other words (Score:2)
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Only if that person wanted to solve all the world's problems with their newly found transcendence, which might not be the case. What definition are you used for transcendence?
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You can't reach transcendence while holding on to desires though, so anyone wanting to solve the world's problems can't actually get there...
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You can't reach transcendence while holding on to desires though
That's Buddhist enlightenment, not new-age transcendence. There's a very real and concrete difference.
NIce try, FDA. (Score:1)
You are not gonna trick me.
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No (Score:1)
No
enable no_clip (Score:3)
LOL (Score:2)
No it isn't. This Glowacki guy is either a delusional idiot or a dollar-store con artist.
You guys actually believe in transcendence!!!?? (Score:2)
Lawn mower man (Score:2)
Who remembers the movie The Lawnmower Man? Or maybe the Stephen King book it was supposed to be based on? Maybe someobe consumed psychedelics while watching that movie, and he decided VR was the future?
What VR company funded this garbage? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because no one with first-hand experience would find the two comparable in any way.
This just in... (Score:2)
...A group of young adults were caught using the highly illegal Substance Experience called VR that has recently been outlawed for having psychoeffective drug like experiences. The youngsters are now facing 10+ years in jail with no parole.
The govenor was also caught with an oculus quest, and to this he responded - it was a gift for my daugther.
Naturally that did not bode well for the governor and his daugher who are now both facing jail time for possession of VR.
Very Little Disagreement that Assertion is Crap (Score:2)
Timothy Leary said this over 20 years ago! (Score:2)
Leary was a great believer in VR and said it was very similar to taking LSD...so much so that he rewrote his popular catchphrase “turn on, tune in, drop out” to “turn on, boot up, and jack in.”
How long before the gov makes this illegal? (Score:2)
VR that has drug-like effects? How long before the DEA claims it is an illegal drug or before the FDA claims VRs like this are only available via prescription?
It sounds a bit unlikely, but at some point I can see the government claiming a need to regulate the market to protect the consumer (or more likely, to protect the children).
Why not both? (Score:1)
Hardly (Score:2)
My hallucinations are in 256K, no pixel whatsoever.
Ummm. No. (Score:2)
Obviously the authors of this study have not engaged in personal direct comparisons.
I suggest they start with a healthy dose of DMT to remove any doubt whatsoever as to how incomparable these two things are.