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Medicine Science

Fourth Shot 'is Necessary', Pfizer CEO Says (arstechnica.com) 372

Posted by msmash from the shape-of-things-to-come dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: While US health experts closely monitor upticks of COVID-19 cases in Europe as well as the global rise of the omicron subvariant BA.2, Pfizer is renewing calls for fourth doses of COVID-19 vaccine. In an interview Sunday on CBS' Face the Nation, Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said that a fourth dose -- aka a second booster -- is "necessary."

"The protection what we are getting from the third [doses], it is good enough -- actually, quite good for hospitalizations and deaths," Dr. Bourla said. But, "it's not that good against infections" with omicron, and "it doesn't last very long." He reported that Pfizer is "working very diligently" to come up with a new dose that will protect against all variants and provide longer-lasting protection.
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Fourth Shot 'is Necessary', Pfizer CEO Says More

Fourth Shot 'is Necessary', Pfizer CEO Says

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  • Drug Dealer says I need more drugs..... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by panda ( 10044 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @07:22PM (#62361097) Homepage Journal

    Big surprise.

    • I'm torn between Bullwinkle's This Time For Sure and Monty Python's series of castles in the swamp.

      Why don't the just come out with the modified insulin pump and a quick refill bottle? Heck, caffeinate the vaccine, kill two birds with one stone.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Pimpy ( 143938 )

      They're not saying anything that independent governments and labs with zero financial incentives aren't. But yes, let's keep trying to twist that into some kind of pharma conspiracy. Muppet.

      • They're not saying anything that independent governments and labs with zero financial incentives aren't.

        If that is the case, then journalists should be quoting those credible unbiased experts rather than the opinion of someone with a financial incentive to push an agenda who has neither a medical degree nor any experience in vaccine research.

        • If that is the case, then journalists should be quoting those credible unbiased experts rather than the opinion of someone with a financial incentive to push an agenda who has neither a medical degree .

          He has a a PhD in biotech, and they have been reporting other scientists talking about the need for a fourth booster, for quite some time now..

          nor any experience in vaccine research

          I'm 99.9999% certain Phizer absolutely do have experience in vaccine research.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Tailhook ( 98486 )

        independent governments and labs

        Imagine being that naïve.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          independent governments and labs

          Imagine being that naïve.

          Imagine being so paranoid that facts cannot reach you anymore.

  • Of course he does (Score:3)

    by ruddk ( 5153113 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @07:23PM (#62361099)

    He needs more money

  • Has he set up a cron-job, yet? (Score:3)

    by ffkom ( 3519199 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @07:28PM (#62361127)
    Just to automate that boring task to "remind" the public every 3 months that Pfizer wants an additional ~20$ per every person, as otherwise the unthinkable might happen, people getting a runny nose in winter?

  • I have had all 3 covid vaccines and the only issue was the 15 minutes it took to get the shot and little sore the next day. I will get the 4th when available. My wife and I have steered clear of Covid and I am grateful that science was able to deliver on this and keep us safe.

    On the other hand, I have an anti-vaxxer friend that got covid along with this wife. He claims he is glad he got the "natural" virus and now he has super immunity and doesn't have to worry about the long-term side effects of the vaccin

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by imidan ( 559239 )
      I don't get all the people who, with great self-assuredness, claim something is wrong with these vaccines because they're not 100% effective or because you need more than one shot. I am not aware that any vaccine has ever been 100% effective. My understanding is that vaccines, herd immunity, and public health action combined can have the effect of greatly reducing the presence of a virus in the population. There are also plenty of vaccines that have required multiple doses. When I was young, I had four vacc

      • I don't get all the people who, with great self-assuredness, claim something is wrong with these vaccines because they're not 100% effective or because you need more than one shot. I am not aware that any vaccine has ever been 100% effective.

        Nobody is talking about perfection. With Omicron efficacy is down the drain after a few months time.

        There is no reason to get vaccinated due to efficacy because it does not exist. The reason to get vaccinated is protection from severe health outcomes. I've yet to see any useful data a fourth dose has any useful impact on health outcomes.

        My understanding is that vaccines, herd immunity, and public health action combined can have the effect of greatly reducing the presence of a virus in the population.

        What can happen as an abstract concept is not relevant. What has and is happening is what matters. Everyone is getting Omicron whether they know it or not despite vaccin

      • Let me tell you my families experience with the vaccine:

        Me 40s - Pfizer 1st and 2nd - Ok.
        Uncle 50's - Pfizer 1st and 2nd - Ok.
        Aunt 60s - Pfizer 1st and 2nd - Heart Attack after one week of 2nd dose. 3 Stents.
        Female Cousin 10s - Pfizer 1st and 2nd - Ok.
        Another Uncle 60s - Moderna 1st and 2nd - Ok.
        Another Aunt 50s - Moderna 1st, 2nd and 3rd - Ok.
        Female Cousin 20s - Pfizer 1st and 2nd - Blood clots after one week of 2nd dose. 9 Stents.
        Male Cousin 10s - Unvaccinated - refused due to his sister's complications.

        S

    • I haven't had any of the Jabs and haven't had so much as a sniffle in the past 5 years.
      I am glad rational thought, good eating and exercise habits as well as a healthy immune system have kept me safe.

      Funky rushed out the door vaccine? Not so much.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Pascoea ( 968200 )
        Easy to avoid getting "so much as a sniffle" if you haven't left your mom's basement in 5 years.

    • If we are into sharing personal experiences, I got three doses of Moderna as soon as they were made available to my age category. Every time I was sick for four days, and three weeks after getting the third dose (so about the very time the protection given by the vaccine is supposedly maximized), I caught Omicron which downed me for 10 days, contaminating a colleague on the way. And I am a fit, reasonably sporty person with no known health issues.

      This makes me weary of going for a fourth dose if it a) makes

  • Here come the virus spreaders protesting their right to catch and transmit a virus.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Z80a ( 971949 )

      I don't think many people actually want to spread the virus on purpose.
      Most just want the terrible authoritarian restrictions to end, or feel like the vaccine was rushed to the gate.
      I bet you could get most of the second group to vax if you offered the 25 or so alternatives to the pfizer, pointing out they use the same techniques that are used on flu shots for decades.

  • Fourth Shot 'is Necessary', Pfizer CEO Says (Score:4)

    by jwhyche ( 6192 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @07:39PM (#62361195) Homepage

    No, it's not.

    • No, it's not.

      At least not necessary for everyone.

      SARS-CoV-2 is not gone and never will be. But it is no longer "novel". A large portion of the world is either (partially) vaccinated or already exposed. It's time to switch the strategy from "stay at home/wear a mask so we do not overwhelm the medical system" to "test/monitor/surveil and respond to local outbreaks accordingly". The pandemic is over. It's endemic now. If your age/health makes you particularly vulnerable then get an Nth dose. Otherwise, give me an an

      • Re:Fourth Shot 'is Necessary', Pfizer CEO Says (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jwhyche ( 6192 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @08:05PM (#62361299) Homepage

        If my doctor tells me that I need a booster then I'll probably get a booster. If the CEO of the company that makes the vaccine or some government stooge that has been wrong more than right tells me, then I'm probably going to say "no."

        • the problem: with doctors, just like with governments, money talks. Especially Big Pharma's, which has been known to fund doctors as well as campaigns.

          Don't let this sound like I'm against science or a 4th shot if proven necessary. But we should really consider a non-capitalist long-term solution against COVID-19 and other diseases that have this much influence in society and geopolitics.

        • Who do you think tells your doctor whether people need a booster? GPs don't make up medication doses how they like it.
        • Just listen to your doctor or the governing medical bodies. Politicians or CEOs believing they should be the authority to listen to on medical issues can go fk themselves.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Given that the risks seem to be very low for people who have already had Pfizer shots (i.e. if you were going to have a bad reaction, you would have the first three times) I'd say it's probably worth getting another shot of it.

          COVID is becoming endemic, but unlike flu or the common cold it can have serious long term effects even if the initial infection is mild. That includes Long COVID and brain damage.

      • Sorry, I had posted before I realized that I had mod points.I would have modded you up otherwise.
        You are 100% CORRECT. This bug has spread through multiple species, and is very well spread through the world due to mankind.
        As such, we are no longer in pandemic, but in endemic, and it needs to be treated as such.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by WindBourne ( 631190 )
      how do you know? What scientific testing do you have to back that up?
    • of the evidence, right?

      Pfizer is probably right. If your complaint is that they're making a ton of money off being right well, I agree. Turns out they paid for development with tax payer dollars [youtube.com] (I know, huge shock, privatize the profits / socialize the costs). So we paid for them to make all this money.

      It's not gonna change much, because, well, we have a cult like adherence to phony free market values. Tell me how we can get the world over that and we can stop getting mad ad Pfizer for selling our
  • Minimal antibody response, non existent T-Cell response. Totally useless. Except for Pfizer's bottom line, very much a boost there.

  • I got two shots. I'm done.

    • I got two shots. I'm done.

      why?

      Concerns about vaccine side effects? Not worried about the side effects of COVID? Some moral stance?

      Personally, as desperately as I want to pretend things are normal I still really don't want COVID, especially with some of the hints we're seeing about long term side effects [slashdot.org].

      If a 4th shot is available, and it significantly reduces my chance/severity of infection I don't see a reason not to get it. Especially since it lets me do a few more things without risk on infection.

      • I'm satisfied with the reduction of risk that comes from two shots, and the extra risk reduction isn't huge from another one. I don't oppose it.

        • I'm satisfied with the reduction of risk that comes from two shots, and the extra risk reduction isn't huge from another one. I don't oppose it.

          Forget about the big unknowns surrounding long term side effects.

          You get sick, have to self-isolate for a week, and you have to tell everyone you have COVID and might have passed it on.

          The cost/benefit of an additional shot seems a clear win to me.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      Three for me.I hope the virus doesn't strikes back with its mutations.

  • For Pfizer to meet its financial objectives. Otherwise there is absolutely no justification for it. The original booster provides excellent protection against serious illness. A 4th shot provides only very ephemeral protection against infection, counted in weeks rather than months, thus has no medical justification.
  • There is one common trait that vaxxers and anti-vaxxers share: neither will ever be "fully vaccinated".
    • fully vaccinated means nothing. Even when you have all of the shots/booster, you can STILL catch the bug. It is just that it will be fought off early, before it spreads, unless 1 of several situations:
      1) person is immunocompromised.
      2) person does not have the t-cells that were supposed to be stimulated (we all have millions of types, but few are across 100% of the population).
      3) initial infection was with an overwhelming dose, and the bug is capable of very rapid growth/shedding.
  • I called this out last July [slashdot.org] because it’s obvious. Polio requires 4 shots to be effective, there are many vaccines that require multiple shots for maximum efficacy.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • He needs a new super yacht

      Plenty of cheap ones on eBay.
      Hardly used, one Russian owner. Priced for quick sale. Must use Bitcoin.

  • I was forced to do BioNTech, but all of the data showed that it just was not as solid as Maderna. In addition, Maderna is the one that did nearly all of the real work for the mRNA.
    So when getting booster, did Maderna, and had my wife/kids do BioNTech booster, though they had Maderna shots.
  • There was a time when this kind of news would've immediately spawned multiple threads analyzing whatever data is available and posting (more or less) cogent thoughts and insights.
    Just for those present who may not understand how vaccines work - it only seems like magic, it's actually science. Since I don't personally know that science, I'll wait until a lot of guys considerably more educated than I in these matters consider the data and make a recommendation. I'll take the minimum number of shots recomm
    • No agreed-upon source of trust, so non subject matter experts are stuck. The "raw" data is going to be difficult for a non-expert to interpret - selection effects and systematics are a huge issue in medical tests - so people have to rely on someone's analysis. The original papers (if there are any real journal papers) are going to be very difficult reading for non-experts.

      There are people claiming to be experts saying all sorts of things and no good way to know which are real.

      If anyone thinks its ea

  • Ever ask your barber if you need a hair cut? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ebonum ( 830686 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:06PM (#62361497)

    Ask the CEO of any company about his/her products. If they don't answer "Everyone needs to buy more", they aren't a CEO. btw. Can Pfizer please drop that stupid mission statement about the patient always coming first? The drug companies made an extra 80 Billion with a B on Covid. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizer-moderna-and-other-drugmakers-make-billions-meeting-covid-19-needs-11645811779). That is about $2,500 per second for an entire year. Pfizer has one and only one motivation. Profits. They have no risk, because the government passed laws to protect them from lawsuits. That kind of money can motivate people to do...

  • And? (Score:2)

    by Barny ( 103770 )

    I already had my 4th a month ago.

  • Haven't even read the article because of course Pfizer want more money.

    UK data is showing that even Moderna's half-shot is a better booster than Pfizer's. Nobody knows why.
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/... [nejm.org]

    BA2 is coming. It's as transmissible as measles and will ensure Omicron kills more Americans than Delta did.

    Whilst protection vs hospitalisation remains high (80% 2 shots, 90% 3), this is largely down to cellular immunity (T-cells et al)... ... protection vs infection falls below 50% after 9 weeks.

    Only 1

    • If you caught Omicron, my incredibly rough estimate is that you have something like 70% protection against infection vs BA2 for a couple of months at least.

      Do you have a source for this?

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