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Space

'Gas Station in Space' - A New Proposal to Convert Space Junk Into Rocket Fuel (theguardian.com) 27

"An Australian company is part of an international effort to recycle dangerous space junk into rocket fuel — in space," reports the Guardian.

Slashdot reader votsalo shared their report (which also looks at some of the other companies working on the problem of space debris). South Australian company Neumann Space has developed an "in-space electric propulsion system" that can be used in low Earth orbit to extend the missions of spacecraft, move satellites, or de-orbit them. Now Neumann is working on a plan with three other companies to turn space junk into fuel for that propulsion system... Another U.S. company, Cislunar, is developing a space foundry to melt debris into metal rods. And Neumann Space's propulsion system can use those metal rods as fuel — their system ionises the metal which then creates thrust to move objects around orbit.

Chief executive officer Herve Astier said when Neumann was approached to be part of a supply chain to melt metal in space, he thought it was a futuristic plan, and would not be "as easy as it looks".

"But they got a grant from NASA so we built a prototype and it works," he said...

Astier says it is still futuristic, but now he can see that it's possible. "A lot of people are putting money into debris. Often it's to take it down into the atmosphere and burn it up. But if it's there and you can capture it and reuse it, it makes sense from a business perspective, because you're not shipping it up there," he said.

"It's like developing a gas station in space."

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'Gas Station in Space' - A New Proposal to Convert Space Junk Into Rocket Fuel

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  • by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:12PM (#62005915)
    Bring down the old shit and sell it on eBay
  • by Billy the Mountain ( 225541 ) on Saturday November 20, 2021 @08:26PM (#62006043) Journal
    Article is bereft of details. I can't think of a way this would work. If the rods are aluminum, er aluminium, they could set up an aluminum air batter, except there's no air. Hmm, maybe use solar panels to get electricity to melt the rods and turn the molten metal all the way into plasma and use that as propellant in some sort of ion engine?
    • by Darren Hiebert ( 626456 ) on Sunday November 21, 2021 @10:14AM (#62007273) Homepage
      Whoever came up with this idea has no concept of either orbital dynamics or kinetic energy. The hard part is capturing the junk; and the only means we currently have of doing that it to put another, powered object into the same orbit and let it effectively "dock" to the junk. Two objects not in the same (or nearly same) orbit have such an enormous speed difference relative to one another that they will utterly annihilate one another if they come into contact, producing orders of magnitude more junk than you started with—as just happened with the Russian satellite intercept, or when a paint chip in orbit damaged a window in the Space Shuttle.
  • Starship Economics (Score:4, Insightful)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Saturday November 20, 2021 @08:29PM (#62006051) Homepage Journal

    If Starship lives up to it's design, the cost of putting stuff in space will drop to the point where these efforts won't make any economic sense. The focus on space junk will be to create small satellites that can attach to junk and push down into the atmosphere to burn up. They could build something like the Starlink satellites with some sort of epoxy they could deploy to connect to junk. They could launch hundreds of these at a time to clean out all the junk in similar orbits. A more powerful version of the same thing could be used to attack enemy satellites instead of just blowing them up.

  • Megamaid clone would be awesome.
  • I can imagine that designing a debris collection craft to utilize the debris it collects as fuel would be wise though it does increase the difficulty of designing the debris collection craft. Basically, it couldn't go with any of the sticky substance approaches that don't require exactly matching the orbit of the debris. All debris collection would be through easing up to it, grabbing it, and putting it into some sort of chamber to start processing.

    But, to then actually get the processed material into an or

  • by joe_frisch ( 1366229 ) on Sunday November 21, 2021 @12:56AM (#62006481)
    The value of raw materials in space isn't all that high. It may be expensive to get them there, but no one launches raw materials because the system to fabricate them into something useful would be very complex

    Separate issue is that the biggest problem is not the small number of large object, but the very large number of small objects. This system would need to maneuver to pick very small objects and its hard to imagine that being practical.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by vivian ( 156520 )

      Worse - it's lots of very small objects that will each require the capture craft to make a significant change in delta V to get close enough in velocity to capture them without having a bunch more small objects get blown off your spacecraft.

      If you were using some kind of sticky foam for capture then you might need less velocity matching for things the size of a fleck of paint, but it doesn't seem like that would allow for very easy processing of the captured material after - and I doubt any foam capture

      • In reality you need some kind of long range effector which will enable you to slow down incoming junk. So far all I've been able to imagine with modern technology is a laser that slows stuff down by vaporizing part of it. This has obvious problems but seems vaguely feasible as the problem of aiming lasers at other stuff in orbit is already solved or being solved for the purpose of inter-satellite communications. However, the unpredictability of the resulting movement could make that potential solution compl

    • Not entirely. The problem is a combination of many small objects and a number of large objects that have the potential to become even more small objects when they encounter other small objects.

      If we can keep the number of large objects down, we can limit the number of small objects growing. Especially large derelict spacecraft that cannot be steered away from known debris.

      This is why huge satellite constellations in higher orbits are a bad idea, and should be placed in as low an orbit as possible. Air-breat

  • So why does the phrase "rods from God" pop into my mind when I hear this.
  • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Sunday November 21, 2021 @10:02AM (#62007251) Homepage Journal

    Another U.S. company, Cislunar, is developing a space foundry to melt debris into metal rods.

    That's great when the debris is made out of compatible metals. But some space junk is whole spacecraft, while other bits are literally just paint chips. This seems equally difficult to asteroid mining, because you've got to somehow separate constituent components.

    • It seems much more difficult than asteroid mining, since you can find nice big asteroids. They seem to be saying 'look we can collect all this mass, and then use it as drive mass by throwing it out the back end (as a plasma). I can't imagine this being viable except under a bounty scheme to collect/dispose of trash.
  • First let's categorise the objects and orbits we're interested in.

    Objects in low orbits are likely to get enough atmospheric drag to find their own way home over a few decades. So they're not obvious candidates for capture

    Objects less than 10cm will be hard to track and capture, so this idea is unlikely to help with them. Which is a shame because they're a real problem.

    That leaves us with big objects in higher orbits, old satellites and the stuff that has been knocked off them. As has already been observed,

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