US Seeing 'Pandemic of the Unvaccinated' As Cases Rise In Every State (theguardian.com) 417
Covid cases are rising in all 50 US states as the Delta variant spreads coast to coast, news outlets reported on Friday , and with less than half the US population fully vaccinated, public health chiefs warned of an "extraordinary surge." Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), said at a White House briefing: "This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated." The Guardian reports: Walensky said the US was seeing an average of 26,000 new coronavirus cases a day -- a seven-day average that is 70% higher than last week. Hospitalizations and deaths are also seeing increases -- about 36% and 26%, respectively, with Walensky noting this was another "critical moment" in the outbreak. "We are seeing outbreaks of cases in parts of the country that have low vaccination coverage because unvaccinated people are at risk. Communities that are fully vaccinated are generally faring well," she said.
Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious diseases official, said there had been an "extraordinary surge" in the Delta variant of Covid-19 -- which is more transmissible -- around the world, including in the US. Jeff Zients, the coordinator of the White House coronavirus team, confirmed that unvaccinated Americans "account for virtually all recent Covid-19 hospitalizations and deaths." Four states that are currently seeing high increases in Covid-19 cases have accounted for over 40% of the total Covid cases seen in the country this past week, Zients said. One in five cases occurred in Florida, in which about 50% of the state is fully vaccinated.
Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious diseases official, said there had been an "extraordinary surge" in the Delta variant of Covid-19 -- which is more transmissible -- around the world, including in the US. Jeff Zients, the coordinator of the White House coronavirus team, confirmed that unvaccinated Americans "account for virtually all recent Covid-19 hospitalizations and deaths." Four states that are currently seeing high increases in Covid-19 cases have accounted for over 40% of the total Covid cases seen in the country this past week, Zients said. One in five cases occurred in Florida, in which about 50% of the state is fully vaccinated.
Darwinism At Work (Score:4, Insightful)
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What about the rest? Are they "stupid" too?
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:4, Informative)
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Your son might not be in as much danger as you think.
Most of the people who die from Covid all seem to be dying because their immune systems go into overdrive and essentially drown the body in it's own defenses, aka a Cytokine Storm.
People with severely compromised immune systems (or suppresed in your son's case) seem to be having better survival rates. They do get sick, but their immune systems are too weak to set themselves on fire. The result seems to be a particularly miserable cold or mild flu.
The re
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Your son might not be in as much danger as you think.
Most of the people who die from Covid all seem to be dying because their immune systems go into overdrive and essentially drown the body in it's own defenses, aka a Cytokine Storm.
A Bradykinin storm to be precise.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Informative)
People with severely compromised immune systems (or suppresed in your son's case) seem to be having better survival rates.
This assertion is not based on any scientific data. All studies that I have seen showed higher mortality rates in organ transplant recipients than in the general population.
For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
Re: Darwinism At Work (Score:3)
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Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Insightful)
If that were true it would have been written differently.
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Those two are not in contradiction. Biden's looking at the country as a whole. The numbers don't lie: 99% of the people who get severely ill from COVID are unvaccinated. You still get the occasional fully-vaccinated person getting severely ill, but 'occasional' doesn't make a pandemic. Hospitals overflowing makes a pandemic.
I'm sorry for the trouble your parents are in, but their plight doesn't make Biden smug or a liar.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Insightful)
For instance, in the UK more deaths from COVID are now among people who have been vaccinated than among people who have not.
Sounds like fake news. Do you have a source?
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Me: more deaths are among people that have been vaccinated than not.
Articles: more deaths are among people that have been vaccinated than not.
I'm confused that you think I misstated this.
You're welcome to draw attention to one versus two vaccinations, and to explore the ratio of people suffering from the delta variant, and look into greater detail but as the first one points out, this isn't surprising. If you vaccinate 100% of the population any COVID death will be a vaccinated person.
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I don't give a flying fuck whether the facts sound plausible or not, they're simple facts.
Given the high rate of vaccination in the UK and the level of ineffectiveness in vaccinations it was guaranteed that at some point deaths among the vaccinated cohort would exceed those from others anyway. Basic common sense makes it plausible.
In Germany atm we still have ~50 dead each day, unvaccinated ofc.
No 'of course' about it.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, restrictions on the unvaccinated are simple rational consequences. You don't get to become a super spreader.
We can't tell you that you can't drink, but we don't have to let you drive until you sober up. We don't have to let you drive a car with no brakes and a blacked out windshield.
We don't have to let you drive or pilot an airplane until you learn how to do it reasonably safely. Sometimes you may be asked to present your driver's license.
If we said get vaxed or we cancel your Netflix account, that would be unwarranted coercion.
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No mandate necessary. Just wear a mask, observe social distancing, work from home, and avoid public venues and you're good. Or get a vaccine. It's your choice.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:4, Informative)
The issue is honestly much deeper than an educational or economic one at this point. How far are we willing to go to protect others? If you're going to force the unwilling to get vaccinated because it's threatening a minority of immuno-compromised individuals, couldnt you also push the envelope further? What about Obesity? Obese parents often have obese children because they teach them the lifestyle and educate them wrong. Alcohol is ruining more lives than it's saving, so why not ban it out for the "Greater Good"?
Other than the financial impact of extra healthcare, obesity affects only the obese person. Also, most obesity isn't lifestyle-related. That makes the difference between being normal weight and being slightly overweight. Serious obesity is almost invariably caused by hormonal issues, screwed-up intestinal flora, injury confining someone to a bed/wheelchair, or other medical conditions that need to be treated independently, but rarely are.
To that end, the children of obese parents are more likely to be obese, but it isn't a given. I know families where everybody is obese except for one random sibling who is skinny as a rail. It's a combination of genetic luck and diet and what kinds of bacteria were in the dirt you ate as a kid and what viruses you were exposed to [nih.gov] and so on. Separated twin studies tell us that 60–70% of obesity has nothing to do with diet or environment.
Besides, preventing people from procreating (eugenics) is generally considered to be a bad idea, both as a matter of principle and in terms of the long-term survival of the species.
Alcohol is... problematic, because in moderate use, some alcoholic beverages can actually improve life expectancy, but when overused or used improperly (getting drunk and abusive, driving drunk, etc.), it causes serious harm. At some point, you do have to allow personal choice.
But refusing a vaccination is pretty clearly harmful in every situation unless you are allergic to one of the ingredients. And it is harmful not just to the individual and the individual's immediate family, but potentially to the entire world.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:4, Interesting)
It's interesting how most obesity isn't lifestyle related, yet strangely in countries where people don't eat like Americans they don't have as many obese people. Weird, like there's a correlation or something.
Look, sarcasm aside - I live in the South. Most obese people are gluttons.
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Your parent has a point, regarding gut bacteria etc. and hormone problems, but in general: he is plain wrong
Obviously diet has the biggest impact. E.g. "wrong gut bacteria" makes you digest dietary fibers. You can blame the bacteria: or simply avoid eating to much fibres or carbs in general.
Especially in the US, it is a diet problem. E.g. artificial sweeteners that mess up your insulin household. Super big potions in diners or fat less milk/yoghurts etc. The idea that you "need a snack" every 2 or 3 hours
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Interesting)
"How far are we willing to go to protect others?"
Fair question. For many of us though, the drawbacks to vaccination are less than those being unvaccinated, so "do it for yourself if no one else" is sufficient justification.
Of course, there are all sorts of people who have legitimate reasons to not get vaccinated and I wouldn't want to malign them. However, given the numbers of people who opt out of vaccination, I think it's fair to say that a lot of people are opting out for selfish reasons. Or ignorance. Ignoring others for a moment: given that this puts individuals at risk and they can't see that is, well, discouraging.
If you know enough people, you will know those who have died of COVID. My circle of acquaintances include those who have lost family members, not all of the old or immunocompromised.
If you work in health care, e.g. a hospital, odds are you know of many people who died, old and young, and people in their 30's and 40's who did not die but essentially lost livelihood due to COVID sequelae.
Most of us brush the illness off as a minor inconvenience. Not all of us do. These cases aren't frequent but they are more frequent than those suffering from sever vaccination side effects.
Bottom line: unless you can't, please get vaccinated. For yourself if no one else.
But to get back to your question, there was a time, in the US at least, where "Ask not what your country can do for you ...." resonated more broadly across the political spectrum. There was an awareness that we owe each other ... something. Now, I suppose, not so much.
That said, even if you are young and healthy and aren't worried about the consequences of getting COVID, you may be one of those who will unknowingly pass it on, perhaps to a family with elderly or sick family members. In today's climate it's unpopular to plead for the common good. But please, consider this.
As to your implied slippery slope argument, I think you have a point, although I disagree with both of your examples (alcoholism and obesity). As something of an aside though, I recently found myself reviewing literature on smallpox epidemics around the turn of the 19th-20th centuries and I have to say that this "where will this invasive governmental intervention end" argument seems to have been popular even with a disease with double digit mortality rates. It makes me wonder if for certain types of people there's never sufficient cause for societal responsibility.
Re: Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Insightful)
Kinda.
Darwinism also would suggest that where the disease mutates reasonably frequently and is spreading a lot but that a large number of people (not large enough for herd immunity though) are vaccinated, that a good mutation for the disease would be one that overcomes the vaccination.
This is still a dangerous time even if you're vaccinated.
Re: Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Insightful)
This is still a dangerous time even if you're vaccinated.
Exactly. This is also why Pfizer, etc, are smart to be working on boosters for the Delta variant, etc, and why the FDA and such are dumb for arguing "There is no evidence a booster will be needed". It's true, but that does not mean they should not get them out - By the time you got the evidence it will be too late and causing damage.
The burden of proof is set the wrong way. Prove boosters will not be needed or helpful later! We have seen that viruses adapt and it is a statistical certainty the Delta variant will eventually have significant mutations as well.
An existing virus becoming resilient against a vaccine is most likely to be a gradual process. The vaccine is slightly less-protective against some variants but still does Okay, as long as you're "fully vaccinated" - The problem occurs when your new variant finally has another significant mutation (Which is rare but occurs), then a bit more effectiveness goes away, then eventually you get a variant of the variant of the variant, And it's a completely new thing, and your Original vaccine doesn't even help... But your original vaccine added with elements from the preceding variant would probably still work.
Re: Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Informative)
Saying "there is no evidence a booster will be needed" is incredibly stupid and dangerous phrasing.
If you say something like "At this time, we don't have enough evidence to say that a booster will be needed. We are monitoring the situation, and a booster may or may not be recommended in the future."
It's the same problem that we had last year with masks. At the start of the pandemic when there was a PPE shortage, statements were made to the effect that "masks are not necessary for the general population". A certain portion of the population took that as "The word of science has spoken, masks are bad" and you see where that got us.
The FDA needs to be more careful about phrasing..
Re: Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Informative)
The FDA is very careful about phrasing. The GP made up a quote that no one at the FDA actually said and pretended they did.
Here is what they actually said [hhs.gov] in a statement a few days ago.
Americans who have been fully vaccinated do not need a booster shot at this time. FDA, CDC, and NIH are engaged in a science-based, rigorous process to consider whether or when a booster might be necessary. This process takes into account laboratory data, clinical trial data, and cohort data -- which can include data from specific pharmaceutical companies, but does not rely on those data exclusively. We continue to review any new data as it becomes available and will keep the public informed. We are prepared for booster doses if and when the science demonstrates that they are needed.
They're very careful about their phrasing. Unfortunately, most of the people who pretend to quote them don't bother to do it accurately.
Re: Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Insightful)
Not necessarily. We could enforce a two-week quarantine for anyone who can't show proof of vaccination. It would have the same effect as a vaccination requirement, but without preventing travel from countries where the vaccine isn't available yet.
Luckily, covid is very suvivable and most that get it, 99% in fact, will be just fine.
Killing one out of every 60 or 70 people is not what most people call "very survivable". Flu is very survivable for young people, because it kills only about one per 2500, almost all of whom are over the age of 65. And still, almost half of U.S. residents get vaccinated for flu every year. This is 40 times that bad, and the vaccination rate is about the same! I really can't even begin to understand that.
If someone walked into a school and shot one kid in every second classroom, that person would get shot and killed before even getting out the door, and everybody who knowingly helped that person would go to jail for life. Why, then, are we allowing people to refuse vaccination, knowing full well that by doing so, they're enabling a virus with a similar kill rate to run rampant? Not getting vaccinated is exactly that stupid.
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There was a time with daily 9/11 number of deaths and the people who went to war over that, were like "meh, a mask is too inconvenient for me"
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There's nothing wrong with developing a possibly useful booster OR with saying there's no evidence it is necessary.
Trying to dissuade Pfizer from developing the booster would be stupid.
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Covid-19 is not the first coronavirus to infect humans, it's the fifth.
It is not the 5th. It is not even the thousands.
You are infected by corona viruses all the time, many of them are endemic in human population.
It is the 3rd or 5th - depending on the count - which made news in the recent 20 years, that is the only difference. And it made news: because it killed people, which most corona viruses do not do.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Interesting)
I know someone in her 70s or 80s who got COVID last week. She was fully vaccinated and had been for months. She had a brief stint in the hospital, but they sent her home fairly quickly, though she's not in good shape. Her similarly-aged husband is now sick at home as well, presumably/possibly with COVID, despite also being fully vaccinated.
I know it can be fun to pile on people who do things to themselves, especially if you think they deserved it, but this problem is bigger than just the anti-vaxers, and how you choose to treat anti-vaxers—or anyone else you believe to be in the wrong—speaks volumes about the sort of person that you are.
Despite my anecdote above, the data is clear: vaccinations prevent a huge number of infections and hospitalizations. Keep encouraging people to get vaccinated. No one deserves to die over this, not even those who are wrong about it.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Informative)
First of all, the death rate for the vaccinated is extremely low. It goes from 2% to more like .02%
Second of all, this can not be said enough. Stupidity is the biggest killer of mankind. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it, except education.
The thing is, stupidity can kill the stupid, or it can kill the people that are stupid.
The stupid people that re now killing themselves? They used to be the stupid people that killed OTHER people.
They definitely DO deserve to die. Not because they are stupid but instead because this time last year their stupidity was killing other people.
They are not innocent morons, they are un-arrested murderers. I pray to god they all die, because their recklessness killed hundreds of thousands of people.
It's not really (Score:4, Insightful)
Now, what those little plague rats _will_ do is give it to working stiffs who pack their groceries but skipped vaccination because of ignorance or (more likely) they can't afford to risk taking a week off if they're one of the few that get wiped out by the vaccine.
And at the end of the day it's politics. The Republican party doesn't want vaccinations, that much is clear watching Tucker Carlson's vaccine coverage. Do enough sabotage and you'll win in the mid term.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Informative)
"I guess being anti-vax is a self-correcting problem."
In future history books it will be called the stupid-flu.
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In future history books it will be called the stupid-flu.
Or Mar-a-Lago-Virus.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Funny)
a long time ago, if you were anti-VAX, you'd likely be on the side of high RISC.
guess some things have not changed a bit.
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Also, don't forget that the median age of people dying from Covid-19 is ~84 years in the industrialized countries, so long after they had their chance to procreate. One could even argue that by weeding out (some of) the old and weak, the survivors get even better chances to pass
Re: Darwinism At Work (Score:3)
It's like you're all in a parallel universe...
Out here in the rural areas almost no one is wearing masks. We should watch more TV and stay inside so we could pretend there's a "pandemic".
The town pool is full, the stores are full of people not wearing masks, same with the parks. People shake hands...just like all your politicians do when the cameras are off them.
Keep on keeping on guys...in your caves of steel and concrete.
It's so amazing the power the Media has when it focuses itself on a project...mocking
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Funny)
Patient: God will heal me.
God: I already sent you scientists who made a vaccine, why not take it?
Patient: None of those scientists go to my church.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Interesting)
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It amounts to a bad flu season only if you're comparing to 1916. Hard to tell if absurd posts are satire or not these days.
Re:Darwinism At Work (Score:5, Insightful)
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That claim is garbage.
There is no evidence that the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 has a lower fatality rate than the wild-type virus [healthfeedback.org]
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Only for .1% of them or whatever the fatality rate of the delta is.
On the order of 1.3% — same as all the other variants.
Let's hope (Score:5, Funny)
As long as it only hits the unvaccinated... Could it be that we finally found a cure for stupid?
Re:Let's hope (Score:4, Insightful)
Trump is still kicking and he got the disease.
Re:Let's hope (Score:5, Funny)
Nobody said it's perfect.
Re:Let's hope (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump is still kicking and he got the disease.
He also got an unbelievable level of treatment that nobody else could reasonably hope to ever receive - and even then he refused to learn the lesson.
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He also got an unbelievable level of treatment that nobody else could reasonably hope to ever receive - and even then he refused to learn the lesson.
Yes. From the news I'm hearing if he was not a) Rich and b) President, he likely would be c) Dead. He is a standard example of old and unhealthy otherwise.
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For starters: there is no Pfizer vaccine. It was developed in Germany by a german company (funnily founded run by Turks or Kurds). The company is called BioNtech, in case you missed it.
Interesting, as here in Canada, it is always referred to as the Pfizer vaccine, perhaps due to them manufacturing it and selling it to us.
Re:Let's hope (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the worst part. Children under 12 are unvaccinated through no fault of their own. Tennessee just fired a public health official that dared to remind everyone that minors have the right to ask for a vaccination without their parent's consent as long as a doctor believes their request is a rational sufficiently mature decision. Some people cannot be vaccinated effectively and they are forced to confine themselves to their home while the unvaccinated wander around un-masked and un-challenged (by law in several states).
The unvaccinated form a huge petri dish to evolve a variant of the virus that can then attack the vaccinated.
If it was just the willfully unvaccinated at risk, I would be fine with them taking their lumps, but Darwin sometimes has terrible aim.
Re:Let's hope (Score:5, Interesting)
That's the worst part. Children under 12 are unvaccinated through no fault of their own. Tennessee just fired a public health official that dared to remind everyone that minors have the right to ask for a vaccination without their parent's consent as long as a doctor believes their request is a rational sufficiently mature decision.
Of course, Tennessee Republicans are just following Trump's lead, which is quite simple.
Biden is President, meaning good things that happen are a win for Biden while bad things that happen are a loss for Biden.
The charitable explanation is that Trump isn't countering the anti-vaxx narrative because he doesn't want to help Biden win.
The less-charitable explanation is that Trump is actively rooting for COVID by urging on the anit-vaxxers because he wants a big wave of virus to hand Biden a big loss.
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The less-charitable explanation is that Trump is actively rooting for COVID by urging on the anit-vaxxers because he wants a big wave of virus to hand Biden a big loss.
The next big wave will take out far more Republicans than Democrats. And skewed toward older ones more likely to vote.
Hopefully it will actually make up for some of the voter suppression.
Re:Let's hope (Score:4, Interesting)
The unvaccinated form a huge petri dish to evolve a variant of the virus that can then attack the vaccinated.
If it was just the willfully unvaccinated at risk, I would be fine with them taking their lumps, but Darwin sometimes has terrible aim.
This is true. Vast swaths of the non-first-world representing many billions of people are nowhere close to being vaccinated however, and that is more likely to be the incubation ground for future variants.
I feel bad for the untold number of people who wish for a vaccine they can't have. I care not at all for people who can have it and don't want it. Too bad we can't just do a trade.
Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:5, Insightful)
Vaccine hesitancy is a worldwide phenomenon; only 30% of Hong Kong is vaccinated, and various parts of Europe are stuck at the same level as the US.
The question is, do we care? If you can get the vaccine and refuse to do so, why should we care about your health? At that point why do the vaccinated have to accommodate the unvaccinated?
Re:Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:4, Insightful)
.... If you can get the vaccine and refuse to do so, why should we care about your health? At that point why do the vaccinated have to accommodate the unvaccinated?
That's not heard immunity works. Many people have medical conditions that prevent vaccination. Their health is dependent on the healthy population being vaccinated.
Re: Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:2)
That or some of us are immunosuppressed (in my case, for a kidney transplant) where vaccination isn't quite as effective. The number I was given was about 60% effectiveness, whereas with a fully intact immune system it's 95% effective. Though I was also told that they're likely going to be giving people like me a third shot to raise it to something like 75%.
Re:Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:5, Insightful)
My only fear is that these incubators will breed a variant that isn't handled by the vaccine. Aside of that I fail to see the downside of it.
Re:Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:5, Interesting)
The outbreak in the unvaccinated overwhelms the hospitals and you can't get treatment should you need it for a none COVID-19 reason.
I am surprised the health insurance companies in the USA have not said if you turn down your vaccines without a genuine medical reason any COVID-19 hospital stay won't be covered. I mean they are insurance companies quick way to maximise your profits and we all know insurance companies look for any reason whatsoever to deny payout.
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I mean, I think everyone should get vaccinated, but denying people care (that they paid for) because they didn't get a vaccine is rather rough.
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Except hospitals are required to treat people, regardless - so we all pay for these vaccine deniers expensive stays in the hospital.
If you want to change that, you'll need to lobby congress and the president.
Re:Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:4, Informative)
Years ago, my health insurer notified me that they'd be increasing my premium because I had a motorcycle endorsement on my driver license. Didn't matter that I hadn't ridden in a long time.
Re:Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:4, Interesting)
You already do pay higher life and health insurance premiums based on lifestyle choices.
I have a buddy who owns a flight school. I'd love to go flying, but my life insurance precludes a number of activities such as flying in private planes, parachuting, caving, etc.
Re:Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:4, Insightful)
You already do pay higher life and health insurance premiums based on lifestyle choice
On health insurance, there's a very small list of lifestyle choices where it's legal for the insurance company to charge more. The two big ones are "age" and "smoker". Vaccine refusal is not currently on that list, and it is not likely that Congress will change the law to add it.
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My only fear is that these incubators will breed a variant that isn't handled by the vaccine.
That is not just a fear really.. CAN and most likely is going to happen - it's just a question of when the proteins change enough. Probably on average, 1 to 2 times per year. The dice just have not fallen yet, or maybe they have, but new variant could be incubating within the first 50 and not discovered and/or reported on that it exists yet.
Re:Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:4, Interesting)
My only fear is that these incubators will breed a variant that isn't handled by the vaccine.
That is not just a fear really.. CAN and most likely is going to happen - it's just a question of when the proteins change enough. Probably on average, 1 to 2 times per year. The dice just have not fallen yet, or maybe they have, but new variant could be incubating within the first 50 and not discovered and/or reported on that it exists yet.
The coronavirus spike protein is remarkably well preserved even relative to the coronavirus's low overall mutation rate in general, and that preservation is not accidental. The vast majority of changes to that protein will cause it to become significantly less infectious, so nearly all strains that would evade vaccine-derived immunity are likely to die out almost immediately after they come into existence.
Eventually we probably will see a strain that mutates the spike protein enough for the vaccine to become considerably less effective, but it definitely won't happen twice a year. After all, it has been almost two years since the start of the pandemic, and it doesn't appear to have happened yet. (I generally assume that the reduction in fatalities and serious illnesses is a more accurate estimate of effectiveness than attempts at estimating it based on case count, because deaths and hospitalizations are easier to measure precisely, so I'm assuming that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines continue to be ~95% effective against the Delta variant. The two-order-of-magnitude difference in serious case counts in the U.S., where about half of the people are vaccinated further supports my assumptions.)
And the rate of mutation is proportional to the number of infections, and as more people get vaccinated, both of those numbers will go down, so the odds of a vaccine-evading strain appearing should eventually be very small.
That's *if* we convince most people to get vaccinated. If not, we have a real problem.
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My only fear is that these incubators will breed a variant that isn't handled by the vaccine. Aside of that I fail to see the downside of it.
What about, say some anti-vaxx asshole blocking an ICU space for a long time (as is usual with COVID) and some other people having urgent surgeries delayed, with some of them dying as a result? Or anti-vaxxers that cannot pay their hospital bill and the cost being put on society? And what about people that cannot get good immunity from the vaccine? There are a few more.
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Well being a citizen in a poor country is also worldwide. Just how far do we want to take this whole "I don't give a damn"?
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Here in British Columbia, 79.5% of people over the age of 12 have received at least one dose, and we've just passed 50% being fully vaccinated. We're doing pretty well here.
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If you live in a free society and you have access to the vaccine (because the government used your tax dollars to make it available to you) and you elect NOT to get it, then that is 100% on you (and as a previous poster stated, probably Darwinism at work). If, however, you don't have access to the vaccine because your government is (delusional | without financial means | corrupt | ineffectual) then that is on them and you should be looking for a way to get a better government.
Lots of people are getting des
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Re:Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:4, Insightful)
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The question is, do we care?
1. Some people cannot get vaccinated or do not get good immunity
2. The cost the anti-vaxxers put on society is high: Lock-downs, restrictions, hospital bills they cannot pay, worse health-care for others (e.g. people with urgent surgeries that have to wait because some anti-vaxx assholes is blocking an ICU space), etc.
So unless all these idiots remove themselves to a closed camp somewhere in the dessert, yes, we do care very much.
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Re:Vaccine hesitancy: a Worldwide phenomenon (Score:4, Interesting)
If the lockdown is called, it won't be by anti-vaxxers. It'll be by officials who are generally pro-vaccination but have to deal with the consequences of the anti-vaxxers' actions.
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Why are you looking at Canada? Another month and we'll likely have one of the highest vaccination rates in the world. Can only vaccinate as fast as we have vaccines available and the decision to give everyone a 1st shot and 78% protection rather then half the population shots and 95% protection was rational.
I'm OK with that (Score:2)
Now, we have a vaccine and a bunch of idiots refuse to get it. I'm guessing the Venn diagram of those and the anti-maskers is in the 70-90% range.
If you think I'm going to wear a mask to protect these idiots, then think again. If they implement the mask-required rule in San Diego there's a good chance I'll show up in a Karens In The Wild YouTube video, cuz I ain't doing it.
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On the other hand, there are lots of people who simply can't get vaccinated, so I guess I can manage a mask to protect them. Agreed though, it's tough to stomach that in the vast majority of cases the unvaccinated are by choice.
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If you think I'm going to wear a mask to protect these idiots, then think again.
While there is definitely a touch of 'just desserts' in play here, the problem with what you're suggesting is that people who aren't able to get vaccinated are going to get caught in the crossfire.
I was one of the early people who got the shot and I never stopped wearing a mask for exactly this reason. (Not that wearing a mask has been a huge imposition in the first place... oh and it makes me harder to surveil. ;) ) Your mileage may vary but even if somehow this pandemic only weeds out 'dumb' people t
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Fortunately for you when you get Covid and don't know it due to mild symptoms and then spread it to an immune compromised person and kill them you'll likely never know.
Lol (Score:2, Insightful)
The government can’t tell me what to do with my body!
Alright I’d like an abortion.
Oh that’s completely different. Please government do something!
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when there are literally people wanting to adopt these now dead babies
Over 122k children are waiting to be adopted: https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]
Can They Please Hurry It Up? (Score:2)
The rest of the human race would very much like to flush the bowl as soon as possible? We've been tolerating these turds for far too long.
Too bad latest variants not more deadly (Score:2)
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What happened to "herd immunity" (Score:2, Troll)
I distinctly remember a multitude of people, including whiners on here, talking about reaching herd immunity. Now, haven't seen those words in months, not long after President Biden took office.
Funny how people claiming reaching herd immunity would save us are the same ones who won't get vaccinated, which is the only way to reach herd immunity [jhsph.edu]. It's almost as if they were flapping their gums.
Just remember, those who claim to be "pro-life" are leading the anti-vax charge. They're the ones continually repeat
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Vaccines aren't the only way to herd immunity.
If you have had COVID you now have (more or less) the same antibodies as those who are vaccinated.
No. This is dangerous misinformation. Vaccination protects you quite well from all known variants. Prior infection only protects you well from the variant you were infected with, leaving you open to be reinfected by another variant that has mutated sufficiently far away.
Part of the reason the vaccines target just the spike protein is that the rest of the virus can mutate confusing your immune system without significant change in the ability of the virus to infect you, while the spike protein is much more l
Re:What happened to "herd immunity" (Score:4, Informative)
Sadly, no. The protection from having the disease is a lot lower than from being vaccinated. That's why people who've had it still need a vaccine.
Make them liable (Score:5, Interesting)
The Price (Score:3)
So these Americans have had FREE access to the vaccine for months. People have been BEGGING to get it. They've been offered CASH MONEY to get the vaccine so they can live and still they refuse!!
Now, they're getting sick and because WE have strong ethics and an understanding of medicine, WE have to pay HUGE amounts of money to help them survive and continue being complete idiots.
I am so resentful.
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The vaccines are not free. They never were. They cost billions of dollars of taxpayer money and now with Pfizer recommending boosters it will continue to cost billions more. For how long? Maybe you need a "booster" every six months. Or year.
You got vaccinated. Be happy. The CDC said if you were vaccinated so you do not need to wear a mask either. So much for that. Masks will be back soon and the Delta hype ramps up.
You guys really need to get over COVID. It isn't going away. Chances are you
23% Republican vs. 2% Democrats refusing (Score:5, Informative)
According to: https://www.kff.org/coronaviru... [kff.org]
1 in 4 Republicans are refusing the vaccine while only 1 in 50 Democrats. The last time I checked, viruses and bacteria weren't selective based on political party on who they killed off or permanently maimed. Let me check again...
Nope. That hasn't changed. Notably though Republicans appear to be the ones who are dying in hospitals at a greater rate than Democrats. I wonder if those two things could be correlated? Fun fact: Tucker Carlson is fully vaccinated. He'll live. He just wants to see the rest of you die.
Re:23% Republican vs. 2% Democrats refusing (Score:4, Informative)
I never said *anything* about Trump. But 23% vs. 2% is both a notable and a statistically significant difference. And the difference inevitably traces to Tucker Carlson spouting anti-vax garbage on his show while he himself is fully vaccinated. That hypocrisy should not be lost on anyone with two brain cells.
And according to the exact same URL I posted, only 9% are African American while 15% of those polled are White. Roughly-speaking, the numbers are approximately identical with slightly lower representation being among African Americans especially in context of the rest of the values. Another possibility is that you are just flat out wrong about your claim. Regardless, there's a blatant and stark contrast along major political party lines while everything else is approximately level.
"Becoming"? More like "Remains" (Score:3, Insightful)
"This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated." --ochelle Walensky,
I submit that in broad terms, this has always been a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
Fooly Vaccinated (Score:3, Funny)
Why doesn't the FDA (Score:3)
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The "surge" in Israel is up to 1-3 daily deaths from COVID. It's more noise than substance.
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If everyone is vaccinated, then most of the people who catch covid will be vaccinated.
That's simple math.
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And what's your evidence that "most of the people in critical condition with the delta variant are people who were already vaccinated"?
According to this Reuters story [reuters.com]
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Breakthrough infections are expected. Vaccines don't actually prevent you from getting infected, they help your body shut down the infection faster.