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Space Businesses The Internet

Amazon's Answer To SpaceX Starlink Delivers 400Mbps In Prototype Phase (arstechnica.com) 77

Posted by EditorDavid from the space-internet dept.
Long-time Slashdot reader AmiMoJo shares this report from Ars Technica: Amazon's competitor to SpaceX Starlink is moving through the prototype-development phase, with the company announcing yesterday that it has "completed initial development on the antenna for our low-cost customer terminal." Amazon said its "Ka-band phased-array antenna is based on a new architecture capable of delivering high-speed, low-latency broadband in a form factor that is smaller and lighter than legacy antenna designs" and the "prototype is already delivering speeds up to 400Mbps." Performance will get better in future versions, Amazon said.

Amazon in July received Federal Communications Commission approval to launch 3,236 low-Earth orbit satellites. The company says it plans to invest over $10 billion in its satellite-broadband division, which it calls Project Kuiper... Amazon didn't provide any updates on when Kuiper will be ready for customers. FCC rules give Amazon six years to launch and operate 50 percent of its licensed satellites, with a deadline date of July 30, 2026. Amazon would have to launch the rest of the licensed satellites by July 30, 2029. Amazon previously said it plans to offer broadband to customers "once the first 578 satellites are launched."
"Custom-built antenna architecture will allow Amazon to deliver a small, affordable customer terminal to connect unserved and underserved communities around the world," explains Amazon's announcement.
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Amazon's Answer To SpaceX Starlink Delivers 400Mbps In Prototype Phase More

Amazon's Answer To SpaceX Starlink Delivers 400Mbps In Prototype Phase

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  • I wonder if SpaceX will win the contract to launch those satellites?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I imagine Bezos wants to use it to bring down his launch costs.

    • That's what New Gleen is for I guess.
      One question that I have is how it compares to the starlink antenna? We know from beta testers that they get upwards to 150mbps, but I doubt that this is the antenna limit.

      • Re:SpaceX (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Rei ( 128717 ) on Sunday December 20, 2020 @12:30PM (#60851174) Homepage

        Yeah, that's just the thing. Comparing a single prototype terminal, e.g. with only one user and in ideal circumstances, with an (incomplete) operational network in the real world, is kind of a silly comparison.

        • Yeah, that's just the thing. Comparing a single prototype terminal, e.g. with only one user and in ideal circumstances, with an (incomplete) operational network in the real world, is kind of a silly comparison.

          Has SpaceX said what they expect the data rates to be when the system is fully operational?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Rei ( 128717 )

            It's unclear. The official statement was that during the beta, users should expect between 50 and 150 Mbps, with faster speeds after the beta - although as of late November, the highest reported speed from a beta user was already 209 Mbps. Few in November were below 100 Mbps, and quite a few were over 150 Mbps, so the nominal expectations for the beta already seem to be obsolete. We'll have to see how high they go, but ultimately, all systems will be limited by the maximum bandwidth carried on bands that

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by idji ( 984038 )
      No, Bezos will use his own rocket, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org].
      • Okay, I admit I am an Elon Musk fanboy, but shouldn't New Glenn do at-least one orbital flight before we can say it will lift the OneWeb satellites?

        • ...shouldn't New Glenn do at-least one orbital flight

          They're likely modeling millions (or even billions) of flights on AWS; whether that'll be adequate will remain to be seen.

  • They can compete (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    As soon as they have more than a joke for a space/rocket launch company. Is SpaceX somehow required to launch their competitors' satellites?

    Tomorrow's news: Amazon launches antitrust lawsuit against SpaceX for not rolling over dead and donating all their assets to Bezos.

    • SpaceX probably WOULD be willing to launch Amazon's sats. And the retail price for a Falcon 9 launch will be way less then than what a New Glenn will cost Amazon to launch.
      Starlink wouldn't be threatened by the competition since they get their launches at provider cost.

      • > Starlink wouldn't be threatened by the competition since they get their launches at provider cost.

        Only if the folks running SpaceX have no idea what they're doing, which I doubt.

        You've probably heard that 50% of small businesses fail in their first five years. Which means, of course, that 50% make it.
        What do businesses that fail tend to have in common, and what do new businesses that succeed tend to have in common? One major factor determining the success or failure of small businesses is whether the

  • They aleady have AWS for servers and millions of ip addresses, this is more consolidation for Amazon. They will probably tie it to Amazon prime somehow.
    • This is a good point. It is actually could be turned into a very strong case against Amazon in terms of antitrust. I personally don't like the idea of entities being both the content and delivery providers, especially if they have the strength to push small competitors under until they drown.
  • Anybody know what the preproduction, prelaunch, test bench numbers were for Starlink?

    • Found this tidbit:

      "So far, SpaceX has demonstrated data throughput of 610 megabits per second in flight to the cockpit of a U.S. military C-12 twin-engine turboprop aircraft."

      October 22, 2019 https://spacenews.com/spacex-p... [spacenews.com]

      • throughput for sat connections is the wrong metric; well okay not 'wrong', but it's certainly not the most important one.
        most (all?) of the rural US can already get pretty decent throughput via hughes/excede/viasat etc, but it comes with an almost unworkable amount of latency, ie 680ms or so under best case scenarios.

        what makes starlink a game changer is that they are reporting ~30ms. if i were any of the legacy sat providers, i'd very, very concerned right now.

        • You forgot to mention the costs of those other services compared to Starlink.

        • what makes starlink a game changer is that they are reporting ~30ms.

          I'm currently getting around 80 ms round trip on my Starlink in northern Idaho.

  • 400Mbps (Score:3)

    by zmollusc ( 763634 ) on Sunday December 20, 2020 @11:06AM (#60850988)

    399Mbps of that will be irritating Amazon adverts for stuff you don't want.

  • ...in isolated test environments. Starlink is getting just under 100MBs in real deployments from an actual orbiting constellation. Which for the isolated test sites that can barely get ANY internet, is fantastic.
    Amazon has real sat ISP performance data at the same level as they have orbital rockets. That is, they don't.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by bn-7bc ( 909819 )
      Well 100MB/s would be grate as that is 800Mb/s, or thid you just screw up the capitalisation of the unit to make it look better than it was, oh well any way, maru christmas/ happy holydays

  • Amazon's Prototype Antenna (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Sunday December 20, 2020 @11:59AM (#60851102) Homepage Journal

    This isn't an "answer" to Starlink. Nobody asked Amazon for an answer either.

    This isn't even a challenge to Starlink.

    This is one prototype antenna sending a signal to a rented transponder on one existing geosynchronous satellite.

    It seems like a neat antenna design for a prototype. Kudos to the electronics team and sorry the press dragged you into this shitshow.

    Maybe, in several years, they could launch some competition.

    Reportedly STM Microelectronics in Germany is building one million Starlink Dishys (integrated terminal equipment) right now.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      150W each, that's 150MW just for the terminals.

      • 150W each, that's 150MW just for the terminals.

        What is 150W? The only use of the number "150" I can find in the summary or linked articles is 150 mbps, the upper end of the data rate that SpaceX is saying they expect to provide.

  • How many connections can it sustain that 400 mbps over? That's the key question for these satellites --Starlink, OneWeb, Kuiper .. how many users, per satellite, can simultaneously get at least 10 megabits per second?

  • This is a laboratory demo. It's not a product prototype. You couldn't actually install this anywhere and make it work, because there's still a whole lot of puzzle pieces missing. It's simply a lab demo of a new antenna concept.

  • I mean does he get the prize for least innovative CEO yet?

    Virgin CEO creates new company, hopes to launch tourists into space. Bezos: OMG I WANT THAT TOO.
    SpaceX CEO creates new company, hopes to launch satellites for internet. Bezos: OMG I WANT THAT TOO.
    Apple CEO creates Siri, a new personal assistant which hopes will revolutionise life: Bezos: OMG I WANT THAT TOO.
    Netflix CEO creates the world's largest online streaming service: Bezos: OMG I WANT THAT TOO.

    And he wants to run a games studio, video production

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ytene ( 4376651 )
      Well, if billionaires paid their fair share of taxes, Bezos and others would have to be a bit more choosy about which megalomaniac projects they undertook.

      And if the billionaires paid the same rate of tax as everyone else [instead of hiring fancy accountants and using international shell companies to hide their wealth] maybe the rest of us wouldn't have to pay quite so much...

      • I have no problems with Billionaires spending their money. At least people ultimately benefit from developments which necessarily result in R&D. I just have a problem with Mr MeeeTooo not having an original thought.

  • Any way you count it, a constellation of 3,236 satellites for a single provider represents an awful lot of material in orbit - and that isn't counting the 955 Starlink satellites, or all the other components now crowding out LEO.

    The problem here is that it may only take a single collision to cause a debris field that has a major impact upon our access to space. OK, so the chances of all access being cut off [the worst-case, doomsday scenario] seems pretty unlikely, but that's not quite the point. As the

  • I see this is Ka band which is the same as the band used by police and as a result, radar detectors. Will this interfere with the police usage of Ka or radar detectors?

  • With crappy satellites.

  • An atmosphere that looks remarkably like the rear floorboard of a teenagers first car.

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