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Medicine

Remdesivir Has Little Effect on Covid-19 Mortality, WHO Study Says (ft.com) 162

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
The Covid-19 treatment remdesivir has no substantial effect on a patient's chances of survival [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; alternative source], a clinical trial by the World Health Organization has found, delivering a significant blow to hopes of identifying existing medicines to treat the disease. From a report: Results from the WHO's highly anticipated Solidarity trial, which studied the effects of remdesivir and three other potential drug regimens in 11,266 hospitalised patients, found that none of the treatments "substantially affected mortality" or reduced the need to ventilate patients, according to a copy of the study seen by the Financial Times. "These remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, lopinavir and interferon regimens appeared to have little effect on in-hospital mortality," the study found. The results of the WHO trial also showed that the drugs had little effect on how long patients stayed in hospital. However, WHO researchers said the study was primarily designed to assess impact on in-hospital mortality. The study has not yet been peer-reviewed. Remdesivir was one of a series of drugs used to treat US President Donald Trump after he tested positive for Covid-19. It was developed by US drugmaker Gilead Sciences, initially as a potential medicine to treat Ebola.
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Remdesivir Has Little Effect on Covid-19 Mortality, WHO Study Says More

Remdesivir Has Little Effect on Covid-19 Mortality, WHO Study Says

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  • But we NEED Remdesivir for the Herd Menatlity! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shanen ( 462549 ) on Thursday October 15, 2020 @04:55PM (#60611946) Homepage Journal

    The sad thing is that Covid-19 is NOT a political problem. That's where you get hair-splitting idiotic solutions like herd immunity. Politicians routinely make mistakes that hurt or kill millions of people. Not just these days, but going way back.

    Covid-19 is NOT an economic problem, but that's where the fire hoses of money are coming from. At least the money could be guided towards payments of damage claims as though we had Covid-19 insurance we couldn't buy BEFORE the SHtF.

    It's a MEDICAL problem. But I bet you'll have to run this discussion through a fine sieve to find any serious medical discussion. The doctors scientists are too busy studying the facts and trying to save people's lives to post on Slashdot, eh?

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      The politicians don't give a **** about saving peoples lives, if they did then they'd be all about sharing information about how to best do that. They're a sickening disgusting bunch, this virus shows us that, they care more about money than anyone's health.

      If you want to save lives then you tell people about the fact that COVID-19 is killing people because they are vitamin D deficient. Literally half the western world is Vitamin D deficient. Google it if you don't believe me.

      110,000 people dead in the US,

      • But I share the blame for the spelling mistake in the Subject! It must be another problem with--dare I say bug in--Slashdot that causes the Subject field to switch the spelling check off. It always defaults to on for the body of the Comment, but not the Subject. Still, it is my fault both for missing the mistake and because I know about the bug.

        Having said that, I did leave out one important item. Can I blame Slashdot again because of the FP pressure I felt?

        Covid-19 is not a political or economic problem, b

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cusco ( 717999 )

          Those cheap CRISPR kits scare me. A lot.

          The first genome analysis took thousands of researchers in hundreds of institutions years and billions of dollars to complete. Today you can Fed Ex your cheek swab to the lab, a single tech sticks it in the machine, and by next week you get an email with your results.

          Gene splicing equipment that five years ago was bleeding edge is available on eBay today for the cost of a luxury car. You can design genes with free online tools and for a few hundred dollars have a billion copies delivered to your door a co

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by shanen ( 462549 )

            I look at it from the scale of the effort involved. Originally it was a multinational effort. Then genetic engineering would still require a major national lab. Then it went down through smaller and smaller labs. With the cheap CRISPR kits, it's within the reach of a solitary madman, and there's never been a sufficient shortage of nutjobs.

      • Can you get me a real source like a medical journal or study? I’m not sitting through a YouTube video.

      • Re:But we NEED Remdesivir for the Herd Menatlity! (Score:4, Interesting)

        by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Thursday October 15, 2020 @06:35PM (#60612468)

        110,000 people dead in the US,

        Now we're slicing the number of dead in half? The known dead in the U.S is over 220,000. Right now we're running just under 1,000 dead each day (about 900) and that number is rising. We will be near a quarter million dead come election day.

        Also, your Vitamin D story has serious flaws [plos.org] one of which:

        The article’s Competing Interests statement says, “The authors have declared that no competing interests exist.” However, publicly available information indicates that corresponding author MFH may have potential competing interests that include non-financial interests based on his vitamin D research and other activities focused on vitamin D; contributions to an app that tracks vitamin D; and interests that include consultancies, funding support, and authorship of books related to vitamin D usage.

        And further [theconversation.com]:

        There have been reports that taking very large doses (so-called “megadoses”) of vitamin D supplements will prevent COVID-19 infection. This is simply not true. There is no scientific evidence to support large doses of vitamin D being protective enough to outweigh the toxic effects.

        David C Gaze, Lecturer in Clinical Biochemistry, University of Westminster

        • Herd Mentality of the trolls (Score:4, Interesting)

          by shanen ( 462549 ) on Thursday October 15, 2020 @08:02PM (#60612834) Homepage Journal

          He's obviously a troll, but they are trying harder to disguise their insanity. I really doubt that they can be so sincerely stupid or proudly ignorant. I think they are paid to fake it, but there's no way we can check the bank accounts.

          My solution approach would be to annotate the identity appropriately and let the trolls' increasingly negative reputations carry them into invisibility. There actually is a lot of good content to read, and even many thoughtful people still clinging to Slashdot 2020. It's just hard to see them with all the highly motivated trolls. They probably get bonus payments for the replies.

          And I'm NOT dismissing it as an easy problem. Defining "bad" behavior is definitely a can of worms. But if Slashdot (or some other website) had a good MEPR (Multidimensional Earned Public Reputation) system, the fine distinctions are not so crucial. For the example of the conspiracy you're replying to, if I felt it was a lie then I'd mark it negative for the "true" dimension and I would also set my filters to emphasize honesty in the comments that rise to visibility for me. A lot of the posts I want to ignore would be strongly negative in the "polite" dimension. That one probably deserves some down votes on the "intelligent" dimension, too, though that isn't such an important dimension to me.

          However, I see that I've been diverted again. They probably get bonus payments for that, too.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

          You've straw-manned by accident. And perhaps not.

          Actual most relevant study:
          https://www.sciencedirect.com/... [sciencedirect.com]

        • Trials are inaccurate. Because ONE drug alone did not match Trumps situation. Plus I bet his virus loads were being plotted by the hour (expensive). So I bet the expensive drug that slows replication bought time of other adjuncts to kick in, assuming Donny was taking Zinc and vitamins. One is not aware the whole treatment ever made the press - ie what else, which was probably donated plasma (again super expensive for most). Early detection, Early and aggressive treatment regimes, lots of tests. This is not

          • Zinc and vitamins do not help during an infection that is already running. Seriously, how stupid are you Americans?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Cab you please go away and top pushing your lies? _You_ (and people like you) are very much responsible for a part of those deaths.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

          What lies? solid science has been done there is plenty of evidence that vitamin D plays an important role in the immune system. There are lots of prior studies done that show that vitamin D plays an important role in protecting against respiratory diseases.

          The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology

          Highlights
          â The vitamin D endocrine system have a variety of actions on cells and tissues involved in COVID-19 progression.
          â Early calcifediol (25-hydroxyvitamin D) treatment to hospital

          • solid science has been done there is plenty of evidence that vitamin D plays an important role in the immune system.
            Yes and no.

            It is only important if you have a vitamin D deficit. It has no actual use as "overdose" - so no: it does not really play a role in the immune systems function.

            And: if you are living in the western world or any "high meat" country, you have as much vitamin D as you need anyway. Seriously? Idiot very much?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

          I'd like to point out that vitamin D won't prevent anybody from catching any virus. But not being deficient = strong immune system = being about to deal with respiratory illnesses far better.

          Saying Vitamin D supplements won't prevent you from catching COVID is a strawman. The point is the protection having a strong immune system gives you and the fact that not having a strong immune system when faced with COVID is a dangerous situation to be in for many people.

      • Literally half the western world is Vitamin D deficient.

        We just came out of the back of summer in most of the West. Very few people are actually vitamin D deficient right now. Oh but we're getting sick at rates higher than ever before.

        Please leave your debunked February conspiracies in that not too distant past where they belong.

      • you tell people about the fact that COVID-19 is killing people because they are vitamin D deficient. Which they are not.

        Literally half the western world is Vitamin D deficient.
        That is absurd. What do you eat to have a vitamin D deficit? Only vegetables?

        Sorry, with a western diet you can not have a vitamin D deficit, you are an uneducated moron.

        110,000 people dead in the US, that number could be under 5,000. I'm sick of this, it's bloody farcical.
         That is probably true :P

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

          I'm an uneducated moron, look who's speaking, most vitamin D is derived from sunlight turning cholesterol on your skin into vitamin D.

          So get lost fool.

          • And meat contains vitamin D, especially liver.

            So: fuck of moron. In the western world no one needs sunlight (which we had lot of in the last 6 month) to get vitamin D. Seriously, how dumb are you?

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by WierdUncle ( 6807634 )

      Covid-19 is NOT an economic problem

      Perhaps you should say that to the millions of unemployed. I am sure it will cheer them up.

      Or maybe stop trying to suppress infections by temporarily closing business, cancelling sports meetings and concerts, etc.. After all, dead people don't need jobs.

      • Or maybe stop trying to suppress infections by temporarily closing business, cancelling sports meetings and concerts, etc.. After all, dead people don't need jobs.,

        Well hell, let's stop trying to suppress all infections. No matter how infectious, like the massive measles outbreak in one specific community in New York [go.com], we should let things run their course. If you or your family get infected, eh, who cares. When you're dead you can't complain.

      • Your response is unclear, but maybe you are fuzzily addressing a failure of clarity in my comment? I have already confessed to the FP pressure. What's your excuse?

        I should have been more clear about the priority of the problems. Or maybe the causation. First of all Covid-19 is a medical problem, and it definitely causes all sorts of secondary problems, though I can't dismiss the deaths as secondary.

        As regards the economic problems, I now (and belatedly) think we should have addressed the economics with a bi

        • As regards the economic problems, I now (and belatedly) think we should have addressed the economics with a big dose of good old-fashioned capitalism. There actually is a capitalist solution to risk. It's called insurance. I admit that I didn't see it so clearly at first, but I'm not pretending to be a national leader or anything. In fact, I deny any deep expertise. I'm quite broadly ignorant.

          You seem to have more faith in insurance than I do. In my experience, insurance companies work best when faced with life's little accidents, where statistics can be applied to determine the likelihood of certain types of misfortune, put some cost value to that, and work out reasonable premiums that cover the expected payouts. Insurance companies do not cope well with unprecedented global crises. All their careful financial planning goes out of the window. Also, insurance companies cannot create money they d

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by shanen ( 462549 )

            I definitely do NOT have much faith in insurance companies, especially for things that should NOT be driven by money, such as healthcare. However no-fault insurance for drivers works fairly well, and that is what I am thinking about. In (the time traveler's theory) theory, starting some years ago the government could have compelled everyone to pay premiums for pandemic insurance so that the economic damages that have now arrived would have been funded, even without knowing all the details. In practice, as y

            • I think we are actually broadly in agreement on many points. I am not dismissing your ideas about some kind of insurance against pandemics, bearing in mind that health experts have been warning about this for many years, but it is obviously a bit late for that now. I think one trouble is that my political views tend towards liberalism, so I look to national government to make provisions to handle potential national disasters. I think your views tend tend towards seeking solutions in a free market, via priva

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by shanen ( 462549 )

                Now I think you're quite incorrect about my views. I strongly believe there are more important things than making money and perhaps the largest problem we have now is that the corrupt businessmen have discovered that the RoI on bribing cheap politicians to rig the game is extremely high.

                In general healthcare is NOT a business matter because everyone needs to buy it and the force fit into insurance is not a good one. "Don't force it. Use a bigger hammer." From that perspective, ObamaCare is just a bigger ham

    • These aren't mistakes (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday October 15, 2020 @05:53PM (#60612288)
      a large number of politicians do not want to help regular, working class people. That's because they don't want regular folk getting used to the idea that government can be a force for positive change in their lives.

      When you've got millions of people who earnestly believe "Government is the Problem, not the solution" those people will essentially refuse to take part in how their government is run.

      And if you can get enough people to do that then you can step into the power vacuum they just created and take hold of the reins yourself.

      • Re:These aren't mistakes (Score:4, Interesting)

        by larryjoe ( 135075 ) on Thursday October 15, 2020 @08:05PM (#60612854)

        When you've got millions of people who earnestly believe "Government is the Problem, not the solution" those people will essentially refuse to take part in how their government is run.

        A lot of people like to say that government is the problem. However, only the true anarchists want to get rid of government or even have less government. Most of those saying that government is the problem really mean that they want a different government, not less government. The Republicans and conservatives have been clamoring for "less government," but even when they have the presidency, both house of Congress, and the majority of the Supreme Court, the number of laws and the size of the budget have never decreased. Yes, some corporate regulations have been stricken, but new rules have popped up elsewhere. Again, the goal was never less government but rather government more aligned with their ideologies and interests. The Democrats and liberals are no better, but at least they don't lie about wanting less government.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shanen ( 462549 )

          You sound rather confused, especially about any pretenses of ideological consistency within the Democratic Party or among liberals. I'm sure that some folks would accuse me of being a liberal of some sort, and yet I am a strong proponent of smaller government. However, I think we have to start with smaller corporations, which I perceive as the heart of the self-delusions of the late Republican Party. The GOP loved big business in those days, but apparently never understood that big business just naturally c

  • Second verse, same as the first? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RyanFenton ( 230700 ) on Thursday October 15, 2020 @05:03PM (#60611996)

    That is - it's another case of Trump using massive government resources to pump up a close ally's company, who is using known tools to prop up a product to treat isolated symptoms in individuals, in place of an actual known process of treating the disease itself across the whole population.

    We've had presidents engaging in somewhat wacky woo-woo practices before, like Reagan with an astrologer - but this is a new line that this president seems to just be jumping back and forth over, enriching buddies at the cost of actually dealing with the pandemic.

    Ryan Fenton

    • Forgive me, but if ever there was a time to throw money at possible therapies, this was ( and is ) it.

      Of course Remdesivir looked pretty shaky from the outset, but I'm still glad we gave it a chance, with all the costs associated with that.

      I haven't seen it, so if I may ask; which close ally of Trump's benefited from the funds?

      • Personally, I'm not a fan of President Trump, nor of his response to the pandemic... but I don't think he's trying to enrich his friends. I think he simply keeps hoping for some dramatic miracle treatment to emerge before November 4.

      • Remdesivir cost less than a dollar to produce and cost about $500 as treatment.

        You can be assured some related friend of Trump benefits from this bullshit.

    • I don't think he cares about company successes or his own stock portfolio (if he even is invested in any of these companies). He just wants to declare Covid defeated/cured so that the whole stock market goes up and he thinks that'll get him re-elected.

    • Remdesivir was made in 2009 (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Thursday October 15, 2020 @08:12PM (#60612870)
      Remdesivir was created in 2009 [wikipedia.org], long before Trump's Presidential run was even a glimmer in his eye. It functions by inhibiting RNA replication, which gives it the potential to function as a broad-spectrum anti-viral (since a lot of viruses are just instruction sets for duplicating their own RNA).

      It was one of those things that was worth testing against COVID-19 because
      1. it's already been developed so you can jump straight to the testing stage
      2. previous tests of it (hepatitis-C - ineffective, and Ebola - effective but not as good as other treatments) have shown that it is safe in humans, so you don't have to walk on eggshells in the first few rounds of testing and gradually expand the testing regimen, and
      3. animal models have suggested it is effective against SARS and MERS, which are also coronaviruses.

      Indeed, it would have been irresponsible and immoral not to test it just because you believe Trump is giving kickbacks to his allies. Testing a product does not become evil just because the test results show it to be ineffective - that's 20/20 hindsight. You have to judge whether it was worth testing based on what you knew before the completion of the test.

  • But the MyPillow guy and the "Demon Semen" doctor both said it worked, so who can you believe??

  • Are they testing remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine on people who are already near-dead? The Chinese Flu is actually two diseases in two stages. These drugs seem to work in the early and preventive stages, but they are irrelevant in the later stage, which is a whole other disease. By the way, there seem to be a lot of snarky children commenting about this stuff. Maybe Google could invent a children-filter.
  • ...is remdesivir efficacious when given the a patient in the EARLY course of the illness. Since it interferes with the virus's replication mechanisms, I would think giving it early in the course of an infection may have more protective effects.

  • APNews:

    However, Dr. Andre Kalil, a University of Nebraska infectious disease specialist who helped lead the U.S. remdesivir study, said the WHO one was poorly designed, which makes its conclusions less reliable. Patients and doctors knew what treatment they were using, there was no placebo infusion to help avoid biased reporting of risks or benefits, there was little information about the severity of patientsâ(TM) symptoms when treatments began and a lot of missing data, he said.

    âoePoor quality st

    • When will Slashdot developers learn how to properly parse text input, I wonder. They've been failing at it for decades.

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