Recovered COVID-19 Patients Test Positive But Not Infectious, Data Finds (arstechnica.com) 104
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: People who recover from COVID-19 but test positive for the virus again days or weeks later are not shedding viral particles and are not infectious, according to data released Tuesday by the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The so-called "re-positive" cases have raised fears that an infection with the new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, could "reactivate" in recovered patients or that recovering from the infection may fail to produce even short-lived immunity, allowing patients to immediately become re-infected if they are exposed. The new data from Korea should ease those concerns.
KCDC researchers examined 285 cases that had previously recovered from COVID-19 but then tested positive again. The patients tested positive again anywhere from one to 37 days after recovering from their first infection and being discharged from isolation. The average time to a second positive was about 14 days. Of those cases, researchers checked for symptoms in 284 of them. They found that 126 (about 48 percent) did indeed have symptoms related to COVID-19. But none of them seemed to have spread the infection. KCDC investigated 790 people who had close contact with the 285 cases and found that none of them had been infected by the "re-positive" cases. Crucially, additional testing of 108 "re-positive" cases found that none of them were shedding infectious virus.
KCDC researchers examined 285 cases that had previously recovered from COVID-19 but then tested positive again. The patients tested positive again anywhere from one to 37 days after recovering from their first infection and being discharged from isolation. The average time to a second positive was about 14 days. Of those cases, researchers checked for symptoms in 284 of them. They found that 126 (about 48 percent) did indeed have symptoms related to COVID-19. But none of them seemed to have spread the infection. KCDC investigated 790 people who had close contact with the 285 cases and found that none of them had been infected by the "re-positive" cases. Crucially, additional testing of 108 "re-positive" cases found that none of them were shedding infectious virus.
Exonomes (Score:2)
Perhaps because the RNA they are amplifying is from exosomes and not a virus!
YT: Should you take the COVID19 Test? [youtu.be]
Re:Exonomes (Score:4, Interesting)
There are plenty of viruses that the body doesn't get rid of and just manages to deal with most of the time, herpes simplex virus (HSV-1) for example (cold sores). We simply can't know how our bodies will deal with this long term because it's only been in humans for a few months. My workmate has been suffering with the virus for 2 months now, asthma may be prolonging it.
So if other viruses can stick around and flare up years later then why shouldn't COVID-19?
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" Why isn't it doing the same thing to everyone? "
Probably because he has asthma too. Since the UK govt isn't doing widespread testing yet AFAIK, there's no way I can prove it one way or the other.
If the problem was environmental then one would of expected his symptoms to have occurred when an environmental change happened. COVID seems more likely given that his symptoms match that and he's at high risk of catching it and he travelled shortly before the symptoms appeared.
As for immunity, Vitamin D deficient
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As for vitamin D, if he can be outside in the currently warm, sunny UK weather for just 15 minutes a day, he'll get all he needs.
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Do you know it takes 2 to 3 months to get you bodies vitamin d levels up to normal from deficiency? High dosing sunlight or supplements won't speed that up.
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Some people's genetics don't allow that. https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/news/20100609/genes-may-play-arole-in-vitamin-d-deficiency [webmd.com]
I've read in some dietician's scriblings that some people from northern fishing populations (i.e. weak sunlight, but lots of VitD from fish food sources) have lost the specific genetic variation that allows them to synthesize VitD from
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And doesn't dress from head to foot in clothes and doesn't wash any exposed skin for a day.
Vitamin D is created in cholesterol on the skin when that fatty substance is exposed to sunlight, it takes a day for the body to absorb the vitamin D. If the person uses soap/shower gel to thoroughly clean from head to foot then they will literally be washing the vitamin D down the drain be
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Well, this is fucking terrifying, thanks. I have to take vitamin d supplements and had no idea.
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You're welcome, 100 micrograms per day vit-d3 is the max safe level per day of supplements / but I got that info from a quick google, best to research that kind of thing yourself.
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I've had a Vitamin-D deficiency for the several years now. My doctor initially prescribed a week long daily dose of several thousand IU, followed by a daily 1000IU supplement. This brought my measured level up to just below the recommended minimum. Since then, we've gone up to 2000IU, and I'm no longer working in an office all day, so I get outside much more often...nice 30-60 min walks with my wife. And still, I'm barely above the minimum.
I mentioned this all to another friend (former classmate, who ha
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I haven't had my vitamin d levels checked since I've rarely ever seen a doctor, but with this coronavirus going around and studies showing how integral to the immune system it is, I've been taking up to 100 mcg (4000ui) on days I don't do out in the sun. I started taking lower levels (25mcg / 1000ui) but since 100mcg is said to be safe and I get the impression there's a very big margin of error, it seems like a no brainier to take 100mcg.
I've heard stuff like vitamin D is fat soluble so take supplements wit
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Haven't heard about the sleep apnea connection previously, and I've been diagnosed with it as well, and haven't been treated. Guess I should follow up.
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I have mild sleep apnea, I don't want to wear some horrible device, my immune system seems to be strong so I'm not too worried about it.
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My knowledge comes from a supplement's package insert :-) Taking a (good-quality) fat, e.g. a tablespoon (or more) of extra virgin olive oil, (real) butter, heavy cream, etc., together with a fat-soluble vitamin supplement works by stimulating your gall bladder to secrete bile. The bile salts increase absorption of certain f
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My plan is to take the vit-d whilst eating a few peanuts around noon. How vitamin d gets into the body from the skin via sunlight I don't know, I figure the human has it sussed anyhow. I reckon I'm safe from gallstones, I've been having a bash at lowering sat fats and increasing fibre for years now. I have had a very small xanthelasma eyelid spot, it hasn't gotten bigger for many years so I think I'm getting it right with regards to cholesterol.
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True...
from Healthline.com
Vitamin D toxicity can have devastating health effects, which may not show up until months or even years after starting to take high doses. Generally, it is not recommended to exceed the upper limit of safe intake, which is 4000 IU (100 micrograms) per day
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Not disagreeing, just saying. I'm on a 50,000 IU/1.25 mg supplement prescription (under doctor's supervision). However, I take that every other week, a few years ago it was once a week :-) Also, i get blood tests every 3 months, to keep an eye on the leve
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Not disagreeing, just saying. I'm on a 50,000 IU/1.25 mg supplement prescription
Just make sure you also take a good daily dose of vitamin K2 when you take high dose vit D - it stops the calcium building up in your soft tissues.
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Vitamin supplements (A,D,E) are *not* the actual vitamin itself. It is the precursor which your liver converts into the suitable vitamin if required. You can take 10s of grams of supplemental vitamin A/D/E per day with no ill effects. The unused chemical will simply pass straight though and you will piss or shit out that which is not needed.
This is the same thing that happens if you eat a 32 ounce porterhouse. Your body will absorb the few grams of stuff it needs and the rest you will shit out tomorrow
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Too true.
Pathways for those intereted: ...
...
1) UVB radiation ~~> cholesterol in skin --> cholecalciferol (D3)
2) Supplements: most often cholecalciferol (D3). Food sources: ergocalciferol (D2) and/or cholecalciferol (D3)
3) ergocalciferol (D2) --> liver --> 25-hydroxycholecalciferol* --> kidneys --> 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol (biologically active form)
4) cholecalciferol (D3) --> liver --> 25-hydroxyergocalciferol* --> kidneys --> 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol (biolog
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I just heard something very interesting, In sunlight vitamin D is made by cholesterol on the skin, it takes hours for the vitamin D to then make it into the body. Meanwhile if you bath/shower with ordinary detergent soap or shower gel then you will be washing the vitamin D down the drain!! More info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Or drink a 250 ml of milk per day. That is why milk and many other products are "fortified" with Vitamin D precursors. Except for the fat and sugar content they are nutritionally useless except as a simple delivery mechanism of the "fortification chemicals". Bread, for example, is about the worst thing you can eat. It is however an efficient carrier for "fortification chemicals" simply because of the number of people who eat it.
That is why one should have a bowl of sugar cereal for breakfast. Not becau
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If your goal is getting vitimins in your system, there are a lot healthier ways to do it than eating fruit loops.
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HERPES CURE (Score:1)
And thusly so much for testing.... (Score:2)
For the employees who show signs of a fever on their way in, they will be turned away and will have to be tested for covid19 before returning to work, and that test must of course show negative... yet people will be perpetually positive.
Its all fucking bullshit security theater anyways, so just get rid of it.
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For the employees who show signs of a fever on their way in, they will be turned away...
So don't run to get to work in time, to catch a bus or train, etc. And don't worry too much about anything - such as getting worried.
Re:And thusly so much for testing.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Its all fucking bullshit security theater anyways, so just get rid of it.
What should be done instead?
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Live somewhat normally I'd say.
Except for some hotspots (which usually have both a crappy medical infrastructure and really bad air quality), it seems in most places, ICU beds have stayed rather empty. Seeing as how lockdowns were never meant to protect us from getting covid-19 but only slow the spread to the point our ICUs don't get overrun, I'd say we have quite a bit of maneuvering room.
Leave large events on hold for now. Let whoever wants and can do homeoffice. Wash hands regularly but not religiously.
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Because that has worked out so well so far.
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"Except for some hotspots (which usually have both a crappy medical infrastructure and really bad air quality), it seems in most places, ICU beds have stayed rather empty. Seeing as how lockdowns were never meant to protect us from getting covid-19 but only slow the spread to the point our ICUs don't get overrun, I'd say we have quite a bit of maneuvering room."
The so-called lockdowns (as you put it) were not intended to prevent catching the coronavirus. When a new virus emerges it is pretty much assured t
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If the company is paying for these check-ups and the time off then I wonder how long it will take some enterprising worker to devise a way to get a few extra days of vacation whenever they’d like.
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The lack of a better or even just a good solution does not provide an excuse to engage in pointless idiocy.
I disagree. The default should be status quo, until such time that a solution should reasonably be expected to either: a. solve the problem, b. provide a longer term solution, c. at least make things better. Too often people enact a solution that does none of the above. Please do not misunderstand: I am not saying I have a better answer, and I am not really referring to your post. I am just saying that we should not give into the idea that doing something is better than nothing. Because the Something
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What should be done instead?
Every car should be equipped with a breathalizer.
Cigarettes should be illegal.
If we feel bad we should stay home.
Turning every building into a HIPPA nightmare isn't going to fix anything.
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oops, meant "HIPAA".
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Pointless, as a person who is soley intent on driving will do so without using it. If you make it a required function of starting the car, I guarantee that model will sell fewer vehicles as many people do not regularly even *think* about getting behind the wheel after they have been drinking anyways, only making the vehicle less convenient to start for a significant majority of people.
Nice in theory, but a waste of time to
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If you went to the Pete Hoekstra School of Dipshit Analogies [wordpress.com] I suppose you could see it that way. If you get in a car accident next to a nursing home, it's not going to wipe out the nursing home. You can give people cancer from second hand smoke - but not by standing in line next to them a single time in the grocery store.
Re:And thusly so much for testing.... (Score:4, Insightful)
What should be done instead?
Live a normal happy life.
This stuff is much like the TSA. The TSA did nothing to imrove airport security, and there's no reason not to return to pre-9/11 airport security on this front (private security checkpoints instead of blatantly unconstitutional government ones). But we stay with the TSA because people are idiots.
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Like Sweden, who never shut down and is tenth worst in the world despite having an advanced health care system?
https://fair.org/home/by-as-su... [fair.org]
That that to Seoul or San Francisco. Both cities have comparable population densities to NYC, bu
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i really still think all the great nations of the west should take responsibility for their own laxity even if china is certainly no pack-o-saints , pointing fingers is gonna hurt a lot more than taking responsibility once it turns to sars3
a virus that happily sits in someone but stops replicating itself ? like
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"do you have any reason to assume it will NOT turn to sars3" ?
or is that like "worry when we see that" i think this is a great showcase , globally on what would happen if a REAL killer virus came along
Don't reopen (Score:1)
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My employer intends to reopen in June, and one of the things they will be doing is taking peoples temperatures at the door 24/7 until further notice. For the employees who show signs of a fever on their way in, they will be turned away and will have to be tested for covid19 before returning to work, and that test must of course show negative... yet people will be perpetually positive. Its all fucking bullshit security theater anyways, so just get rid of it.
My employer, being deemed essential, has been open for the duration of this crisis. I've been at work *every* day, sitting at my desk working.
We have only recently started all this crazy health screening stuff, wearing masks, temperature checks, health screening questions, wiping down doorknobs and sanitizing stuff (the smell of bleach is dizzying at times), hand sanitizer everywhere and social distancing reminders on taped to every wall every 6 feet. In this county of millions of people, there are under
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Your testing program doesn't have to be perfect to be useful. You just have to limit the inferences you make from the data.
Temperature checks are useful, as long as you don't jump to conclusions. Not everyone who has virus has a temperature, so you continue to take precautions. Not everyone who has a temperature has COVID-19, but you still send them home if there's COVID-19 in your area.
The point is to alter the *statistical* probability that COVID-19 will spread in your workforce, not to get iron-clad gu
Re: And thusly so much for testing.... (Score:2)
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Managerial innumeracy is a self-sustaining phenomenon. Your path upward in management is dependent upon your ability to communicate with higher levels of management, and if the managers above you don't understand statistics, statistics only takes you so far. I learned early in my career to present numbers as pictures.
Re: And thusly so much for testing.... (Score:2)
You know why they don't want to look at raw data? Because that's your job. Pictures are the right idea but not because these people are stupid. It's because they don't have time to do your job and theirs. Their job is to take the summary data and make decisi
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I'm not talking about raw data. I'm talking about data *they* need to do *their*jobs.
Re: And thusly so much for testing.... (Score:2)
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Things that will cause your body temperature to be higher than usual that are not a disease:
Exercise
Eating food with lots of carbs (like that morning donut)
Having a higher than average healthy body temperature (by as much as two degrees)
Afternoon
Being a woman
Being a woman menstruating (there's a gender discrimination lawsuit looking for a place to happen).
Things that will cause your body temperature to be lower than average (and thus, making it possible you could have the disease but be allowed in because y
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So what does this mean exactly? (Score:5, Interesting)
They're negative, then they're positive but what's making them test positive is dead virus particles. That much is clear. What's less clear to me is where the dead virus particles are coming from. Is there a reservoir of live virus somewhere in the body that the immune system is killing and excreting? Is that likely to be stable, or are we potentially looking at something like HIV, which sometimes produced a mild initial illness, and then came back to bite you 10 years later when viral load and/or cell damage got to the point where you had "full blown AIDS". I hope they monitor these patients long-term. If we're looking at a non-sexually transmitted HIV, that would really stink; but better to know than not know.
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There is a guy on youtube who while not doing the science, is capable of understanding the science, and explaining it in simple terms:
I'm not going to summarise what he said, but he addressed (as best he understands it) those points yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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I watched through until he started greeting subscribers. Very informative. I'll attempt a summary: Based on a paper published by the Korean CDC, it appears that the virus particles triggering the tests are from old cells that were being sloughed off. Apparently the virus can infect cells without killing them, leaving remnants of virus in living cells. Cells in the body aren't permanent (a fundamental fact of biology that most of us should have learned), so when those infected (but not infectious) cells
Re:So what does this mean exactly? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: So what does this mean exactly? (Score:1)
All conspiracy theories were made up by the CIA (or your favourite alternative acronym) anyway. ;)
Re: So what does this mean exactly? (Score:2)
Is Big Pharma out of a HP Lovecraft story I missed? Is it one of the Old Ones? It sounds really scary. I'll dig around and pick up the book this weekend but a title would be great if you got it handy! Th
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So mega corporations aren't desirous of profit now? All heart, our corporate overlords? Just looking out for us?
My, what people will believe.
Re: So what does this mean exactly? (Score:2)
What was the title of that HP Lovecraft book with the Big Pharma Old One? I still want to read it. Thanks!
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How is criticizing big pharma for the stuff they openly do in a thread about medical treatments in any way straw-manning?
Re: So what does this mean exactly? (Score:2)
And while you're at it, please define Big Pharma. Do all the Big Pharma Old Ones get together and perform secret blood rites to create new plagues? Are the CEOs and CFOs the high priests?
Who exactly is Big Pharma?
Does EVERY drug company engage in this behavior?
Re:So what does this mean exactly? (Score:5, Insightful)
Either that, or they've only had four months or a bit more (or less) to go from "we need a reliable test" to "we have worked out all the possible complications and designed a test that works 100% of the time in spite of the possible complications"...
Hmm...what to believe? I am thinking the latter case is more believable. Because the alternative is a world-wide conspiracy including EVERY medical establishment on the planet....
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People are strange.
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Because the alternative is a world-wide conspiracy including EVERY medical establishment on the planet....
Well, we're already there with every institute studying climate with the climate change hoax, so I think it's pretty likely. They're all part of the illuminati run by the Clintons and funded by Soros.
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. Showing that there are a lot of coronaviruses is useless, as it could just be a cold.
No. Covid-19 tests are designed more specific than that. They won't react to cold viruses at any rate higher than they would to a control sample.
Showing that there are fragments of SARS-COV2 virus is useless, as fragments can't cause harm.
The probability that someone who tests positive on PCR has live virus may not be 100%, but it's high enough for the test to be useful.
You have to assume that false positives are going to be more likely in people who've recently recovered, but it's still fairly uncommon event.
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"is why there are no reliable tests"
There are reliable tests. The current test is for a specific fragment of RNA that encodes for a particular conserved portion of the spike protein which enables this particular virus to enter its target cells. There are many millions of viruses (virii) with many trillions (thats real trillions, not wee American trillions) of genetic sequences. While the SARS-CoV-2 virus and its several circulating mutations have all been sequenced, they are all slightly different. Some
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No. Herpes viruses are retroviruses that make DNA which is inserted into the infected cell's chromosomes to be expressed and make new viruses whenever activated. Coronaviruses are not retroviruses.
So is this like Hepatitis-B? (Score:2)
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Fortunately no. Take a look at this comment [slashdot.org] and the video it links to. The doctor in the video specifically addresses this point at 11:30 to 13:38 [youtu.be] comparing Covid-19 to HIV and Hep-B.
(Posting anon since I upvoted the comment I'm linking to)
Much appreciated (Score:2)
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Thomas Friedman had a good op-ed in the NYT today. The point is that to come to duel with Mother Nature, Mother Nature always wins. MN doesn't give a flying rat's ass about your perceived liberties. She's biology, chemistry, and physics. Think of yourself as dueling a machine.
The virus will always seek to expand. You can either work with MN or you can opt for a duel. You are opting for a duel.
MN has never lost in 4.6 Billion years.
What are they testing for? (Score:1)
If they're testing for antibodies, of course they will test positive...
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The type of tests that suggested the 285 people were positive for COVID-19 a second time were what’s called RT-PCR tests (reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction). These tests are typically used to diagnose a COVID-19 infection. They do so by recognizing and making copies of unique, targeted fragments of SARS-CoV-2’s genetic material.
That isn't antibodies (Well, they tested for antibodies on some of them also, just to see if those testing positive had developed antibodies that should make them immune - 96% had)
Once again (Score:3)
Re: Once again (Score:2)
No, that can't be it. Never mind.
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Mass infections? In South Korea?
Korea had its peak for active cases on March 11th [worldometers.info] with ~7000 active cases. The US passed that number a week later on Marth 18th. [worldometers.info] Do you think the US is only a week behind South Korea when it comes to research on this virus?
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It's more like they went through an outbreak of the first SARS in 2003, so they took this corona virus seriously early on.
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The bungling of testing in the USA, especially early on, is the obvious culprit.
Re: Once again (Score:2)
There's just no making some people happy.
If Trump personally cured cancer you'd complain about all the cancer doctors out of jobs and it's Trump's fault; we should UBI all cancer doctors just in case because Trump is crazy and just m
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The US, the country founded by nutbag religious extremists who believed in the rights of man so hard that they imported slavery? Who founded their nation on genocide of the native peoples and theft of their lands? Whose high-sounding ideals of the Constitution were false when they were written, according to the New York Times 1619 project? That US?
The world has been loudly demanding an end to US "leadership" i.e. bullying for quite some time now. It is long past the time when the US needs to step aside and
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Good luck for them (Score:2)
They'll never get a job anymore.
Contact tracing (Score:1)
Just get a set of 100% reliable treatments (Score:2)
As in, the treatment will see one through a dose of Covid-19... and come out alive and as healthy as before you got dosed.
Change mode (Score:2)
chmod -r c19