Hospital Workers Make Masks From Office Supplies Amid US Shortage (bloomberg.com) 100
Hospital workers in Washington state have been making protective medical gear out of office supplies and other run-of-the-mill materials as they deal with a severe shortage of equipment needed to care for patients who may have Covid-19. From a report: Among the supplies coming in handy: clear vinyl sheets. "We are very close to being out of face shields," said Becca Bartles, executive director of infection prevention at Providence St. Joseph Health, a 51-hospital system. "Masks, we're probably a couple of days away" from running out, she said. To buy time, Providence infection control and quality experts designed prototype face-shields with off-the-shelf materials: marine-grade vinyl, industrial tape, foam and elastic. Monday night they bought supplies at craft stores and Home Depot. On Tuesday, about 20 administrative staff members at the health system's corporate headquarters volunteered to work an assembly line in a large conference room, putting together 500 home-spun face shields that were going to a hospital in Seattle that night.
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Rocket Boy was the original Wuflu, he ate too many bats and pangolin at one sitting. That's why they make him visit in that ridiculous train; he's not allowed in the market anymore.
The British are already having auto makers build medical supplies, that's where he got the idea.
Wirldwide (Score:3)
this happens worldwide, not only in the us
Re:Wirldwide (Score:4, Insightful)
forgetting hard-won wisdom (Score:1)
So who's best situated to win the next big war now?
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Manufacturing capacity is pretty close between China and the US and Japan about half as big. The EU as a whole is probably close to on par with the US or China.
https://www.brookings.edu/rese... [brookings.edu]
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The US does have massive manufacturing capacity... For massive things. We're a world leader in production of heavy equipment. But that's irrelevant to this discussion because the plant that builds giant dump trucks and draglines for strip mining can't be repurposed to make surgical masks.
We gave up much of our manufacturing ability to China, Mexico, and others, and now that we want to be able to produce certain things, we can't. And no number of bulldozers will change that.
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Not at the start of the war. Play more Axis and Allies, Bruh.
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They have the raw materials to produce in bulk.
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Depends on the manufacturer.
3M for example has 11 factories world wide. Many other large manufacturers don't all manufacture in China, either. They all realize the problems that could happen if their supply chain gets disrupted, especially since they realize it can easily be a life or death matter.
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this happens worldwide, not only in the us
Except for China donating to Italy, the US, the rest of the EU, and the whole of Africa.
China donating medical supplies [google.com]
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You mean one Chinese guy. Not the Chinese government.
You mean you are incapable of reading links and believe what you've been programmed to believe.
Oh and also to Japan, Korea, India, Philippines, etc.
Not the slightest bit surprised.
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In London they are down to one mask between two people.
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Specifically, these two people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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N95 masks, negative pressure isolation rooms, surgical masks, everything a hospital system needs.
In different warehouse locations for use by their workers, staff and for their citizens.
They also took the time to understand the genetic sequences and have their own tests ready.
Had the materials ready to support a lot of testing.
Terms like a National Medical Stockpile.
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Outsourcing manufacturing (Score:4, Insightful)
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So how does all this globalization working out in a time of crisis?
Yeah, let me know when Greed starts giving a shit about consequences.
History has shown that it never has, and likely never will.
Re:Outsourcing manufacturing (Score:4, Insightful)
About as well as localization -- if we're talking pandemic. A week from now non-essential domestic-only supply chains will be sputtering to a halt.
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About as well as localization -- if we're talking pandemic. A week from now non-essential domestic-only supply chains will be sputtering to a halt.
Gee, I wonder how well our military stockpiles are faring. I mean, we're down to our last 10 trillion bullets and we probably only have a few thousand nuclear missiles left. Time to put in another order!
(Seems we have no fucking problem whatsoever stockpiling in other industries...)
Re:Outsourcing manufacturing (Score:4, Informative)
DOD is releasing PPE (which is what is at issue in this thread) from their strategic reserve.
You do realize we stockpile more than just weapons, right?
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DOD is releasing PPE (which is what is at issue in this thread) from their strategic reserve.
Let's see how much that actually helps. So far, I'm not seeing any signs of shortages not happening. Also depends on what kind of PPE we're talking about. Offering up a MOPP-level gas mask to replace an N95 mask is far from ideal or even practical.
You do realize we stockpile more than just weapons, right?
You do realize we're going to have to prove that, right?
Re:Outsourcing manufacturing (Score:4, Informative)
To be sure, we're in shortage city. My wife does inventory control for a hospital, and things there are crap and getting worse. The release of stockpiled items is a "new as of today" thing so it hasn't hit the supply chain, yet. They're not giving out MOPP gear, it's things like N95 masks (something like five million of them). We'll obviously need more than that, not to mention other things.
Further good news is that 3M and other suppliers have been told they'll be immune from liability if they convert their commercial stocks into "medical" stocks (i.e. N95 masks which are used for painting, etc). There are millions more in that bucket, and the manufacturing capacity is in the tens of millions per month.
The situation is shitty, and no one was prepared for jack shit, despite having had not only opportunity (Ebola a couple of years ago SHOULD have at least had people thinking, but apparently thinking is hard) but a few months warning--but that said, there's no reason to imply that, somehow, our weapons stockpiles are important but DOD doesn't bother to handle other supplies. It's simply not true, and makes things worse.
Despite Darth Cheeto's overuse of the term for things that are certainly not, "Fake News" is a Real Thing, and right now we need as little of it as possible. Don't push the noise floor up--if you want to pontificate, at least add some signal.
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It really depends on the system and how its funded. I work for a privately funded public hospital. We have 3 months worth of stuff stockpiled if we used them at regular rates, they are looking at stretching the supplies. The primary issue for us is IT folks and nurses and other essential staff refusing to come into work (unions are using it as a cudgel to get increases in pay and paid leave). The state funded hospitals are indeed in the shitter right now and Canada is even worse.
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They did not wait for the WHO to allow them to get ready.
Re "The situation is shitty"... weeks and weeks to get ready was the idea. To demand a stockpile was ready..
Contractors ready, have that jobs fair and find the skills..move tech and support around the USA.
The world had Ebola, H1N1 influenza, SARS and other events to show the need for some basic nations health stockpile...
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Well, since the DoD move was announced late yesterday, I don't see *how* you could possibly see an impact by *today*.
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Years of expert work, skill per contractor and mil unit
That is their stockpile for war.
To work around the USA when the state , city and federal health care system fails and needs per hospital clean out and clean up.
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I never said it wasn't for military use. The comment I responded to made an unhelpful complaint that we stockpile weapons, but not healthcare items. That is patently false.
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Giving some of their masks to some hospitals is not a national "stockpile" for medical use.
That was their limited stock for war, for Chemical, Biological, Radiological, and Nuclear experts.
For their use in ports, forts, camps around the world
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All their nice contractor supplied protection?
Masks from office supplies found around camps, forts, ports, a mil base that day?
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They are available... (Score:1)
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... from China. 1000s more companies began making them there after the outbreak in Wuhan was admitted by the CCP. Of course maybe the USA should realise globalisation at a time like this is a mistake and pay a US company to build more production capacity?
Build more production capacity? We need masks and other critical supplies now, not six months from now when the empty building finally passes through the first 74 rounds of US-Grade A Red Tape.
There's more than one reason we outsourced a ton of manufacturing. We couldn't turn on a dime even if we owned the minting press.
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That stopped its own experts from talking?
That used the police on it own medial experts?
That the world had to find out about macho later?
That Communist China?
The Communist China that demands its students, tourists and academics be allowed to travel world wide with wuflu?
That is what the word "blame" is used for...
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> blame China for the disease
They are largely responsible for it getting out of hand like it did. They lied, suppressed, and ignored the experts trying to warn everyone about it.
If they were honest and listened to the experts they would have had a better early response. Other countries could have assessed the danger more accurately and taken early steps.
Yes, China is at fault for lying, and suppressing the experts trying to warn everyone which allowed the virus to spread and made quarantine near impossi
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>destroy the credibility of all legitimate news sources
They destroyed their own credibility. Distrust in the news didn't start magically out of no one.
> Either way, its hard to fault China's government without also faulting our own.
He down played it while cutting off travel and having the DoD prepare for a pandemic before it was declared a pandemic. He didn't silence the experts. He didn't silence journalists. Besides, what does that have to do with China's responsibility for allowing it to go pandemi
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Build more production capacity? We need masks and other critical supplies now, not six months from now when the empty building finally passes through the first 74 rounds of US-Grade A Red Tape.
China has built 2 complete, huge hospitals from bare field in 10 days apiece.
https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
So it can certainly be done. It would never happen here though.
The video is impressive;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Yeah, let's import good from China more, so that when China turns back ships and seizes all shipments for internal use, we're left to rot. Oh, exactly what happened like a month ago.
If anything, this should be a wake up call to get manufacturing out of China.
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If anything, this should be a wake up call to get manufacturing out of China.
Or perhaps we could have stockpiled critical supplies. Masks are cheap and can be stored for decades.
I have masks. They have been sitting in my garage for years, right next to my supplies of toilet paper, iodine pills, beans, peanut butter, and 5.56mm ammo.
As a prepper, I will take this opportunity to say: "I told you so."
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If some US brand sold the factory to Communist China... years ago.
Intellectual property is evil (Score:2, Insightful)
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The vast majority of patents are completely irrelevant right now. Just throwing the barn doors open and shouting "go for it, boys!" is going to result in a whole lot of claim jumping that has nothing to do with the crisis at hand.
Most people on the street wear the wrong masks. (Score:3)
And when they're wearing the right mask, they're wearing it the wrong way.
I saw a young guy at the airport the other day with an N95 mask over a massive, bushy, beard. It was doing *nothing* to protect him. Just earlier I saw the president on TV asking construction companies to donate their N95 masks to a local hospital.
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The question is, how much less effective than 100% is it?
I don't think anybody disputes that *some* infections might be prevented by a badly worn mask. But *other* infections are likewise *caused* by it. The reason experts advise against improperly worn masks is that they increase the frequency of unconscious face touching.
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Considering the mask doesn't do anything for your eyes, and the majority of the transmission appears to be contact-based from asymptomatic infected, the masks are probably just fashion accessories for most people.
For the medics exposed to symptomatic patients with face shields, gloves and proper contact and droplet precautions, the masks are important.
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the majority of the transmission appears to be contact-based from asymptomatic infected
The health authorities are warning that this is unsubstantiated rumor and is not consistent with the current understanding. Spreading is believed to be primarily though airborne moisture droplets.
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ie what is found after actual study and testing.
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I have. That's why I commented.
It can last various amounts of time on various surfaces at different temperatures and humidity levels.
That is a separate issue from how it is primarily transmitted. It is important to protect yourself from contaminated surfaces, but that doesn't mean it is the main issue, or prevents transmission. In a room with still air, a single cough can contaminate that whole airspace for 3 hours. Surfaces could remain contaminated for longer, depending.
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"...and keep you from touching your mouth/nose as much."
I'm too lazy to find the link again, but think it was from CDC, where they explained that people DO touch the masks, and adjust them. And once you have perspiration on them, you've effectively increased the chance of infecting yourself. Untrained people shouldn't be wearing masks unless directed by medical personnel.
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Untrained people shouldn't be wearing masks unless directed by medical personnel.
Why?
Do the medical personnel give them some kind of mask training? Do they get a mask wearing licence afterwards?
Most places that actually have masks recommend using them.
Places with a shortage recommend saving them for medical staff. That doesn't mean they don't work. It means they want to save them for someone more important you...
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You left out the part of my post where I said why.
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You left out the part of my post where I said why.
You left out the part of your post that links to somewhere saying it's true.
Why do those concerns go away after they authorize you to use masks?
Do they also give you a little sticker to wear so that everyone else knows now you're allowed to wear a mask but not them? Or do you have to carry a pass?
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Nothing? Covering your mouth with your hand does at least something. A bandana does something. Yes you want something better in a hospital setting, of course. But for the general public the purpose of the mask is to stop your cough or sneeze from spreading out, it's not to stop nanoparticles from coming in.
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I agree, wearing even a surgical mask is effective *to prevent other people from being infected by you*. But if you think you are infectious you should be self-isolating, not strolling about crowded places with a mask on.
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In theory, sure... but what do you do when the entire family is sick, you need food, most of the people you know who could help are in a risk group, and all the grocery delivery services are so backed up with people panic-buying that you can't even schedule a delivery?
What you do is, wash your hands, go do the shopping you need to do while trying to keep a distance from people and stifle your cough, use the self-checkout, and go back home.
At the end of the day, people need to eat, and we don't have the infr
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That's why I don't go up to people who are out shopping in surgical masks and tell them they're being idiots -- even though they *probably* are. If you are exposed, and need food, wearing a surgical mask is certainly a responsible thing to do.
But do at least wear it the proper way. I've seen people walking around the airport with their mask under their chin, then pulling it up over their mouth when they board the plane. Unless they sanitize their hands, neck and face first, that only increases their cha
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You link that is bad, look at these twonks (Duffus)
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/ma... [quoracdn.net]
Westworld (Score:2)
"Among the supplies coming in handy: clear vinyl sheets. "
Westworld should have a decent supply of those, since they seem to not need them this season.
subject is misleading (Score:1)
Use plastic bags as temp gloves when going out (Score:2)
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I'm using a hand tissue, I give it a little spray with alcohol then I can touch a door, and throw it away.
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Another victory of outsourcing (Score:1)
And just in time delivery!
Thanks boomers
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Thanks Gen-Z kids for insisting everything be delivered from the touch of a button on your phone, increasing the overall auto and truck traffic, and basing your whole lifestyle around just-in-time delivery.
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Why not combine local production with ordering on your phone? Is that too Gen X?
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OK, but for Americans, who do have raw materials, why not combine local production with mobile ordering?
How about reusing masks? (Score:2)
They get covered with potential contaminants of course, but if you spray them with a bit of water and then stick them in the microwave for a few minutes that might be enough to sterilize them for another round of use. I just don't know if the material will survive that treatment.
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My R95 mask and P100 filters were usable for days/weeks. They actually never got too loaded to breathe, but were discarded because of accumulated odors. Will masks that are still breathable still lose their effectiveness (as the electrostatic attraction gets used up)?
Supposedly you can do this at home (Score:4)
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What if the facemasks aren't that useful to most people in most situations? Wouldn't preserving the supplies for people who actually need them make more sense than making doctors and nurses brush up on their cosplay skills?
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Yes, it's good info to publicize. But to a couple of your other inline remarks: I've observed plenty of public information attempts on the need to change masks regularly, downplay value of them in germ avoidance and emphasize their use as a 'prevent you from spreading the virus'. The buying frenzy persists. Just like everyone on the planet can simultaneously say 'folks, TP and Water aren't concerns', and 'hey, pick up a case of TP while you're at the store'.
We're all idiots.
Re-use facemask? (Score:2)
Can face-masks be re-used?
I imagine using a mask once, then leaving it in a low-humidity environment for 10 days, then re-using it. That'd give time for coronavirus to die, and low humidity would prevent mold/spores. Maybe hospitals have other sterilization techniques they can use too?
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One with cartridges or removable filters can be, yes. N95s are inherently disposable items. It's like gloves, you reuse your mechanics gloves, and for a hobby use of keeping glue off your skin you might reuse nitriles until they break, but you wouldn't reuse in a serious setting.
What is inherently disposable about N95s? Why wouldn't you re-use them (in a setting where there's a marked shortage of them and people are improvising with whatever household equipment they can)?
Specifically, what would be unsafe about the cleaning protocol I described - leave them for 10 days to be sure coronavirus has died, and then re-use them?
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What is inherently disposable about N95s?
If you wear them more than 1 or 2 days, they start disintegrating.
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3m R95 nuisance masks (equivalent or better than N95) absolutely do not disintegrate with extended use. I'm not sure about the 3m medical N95 yet.
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Hospitals typically reuse the very minimum of supplies because you never know if it's been properly sterilized. Even things like steel surgical instruments may or may not be reused.
You could probably figure out how to sterilize a face mask of coronavirus, but you'd want to test your method pretty carefully.
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Who would want to risk decades of the best and most skilled workers and experts on "trying" reuse?
Making new experts and staff takes
Agile and Lean manufacturing (Score:2)
This is great example of the potential for open source designs. Government need to be using experts of Agile and Lean manufacturing methods. We learns of the MIT's $100 respirators yesterday.
Another area we should be looking at is temporary wards using modular building methods used to errect 200 bed hotels in a couple of weeks.
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Better have a medical stockpile and a factory design ready.
Got that medical stockpile ready?
Got the skills to make a factory, get the raw materials, test the results, perfect the product and send the masks out over a nation?
marauding mHz mitts (Score:2)
I've got eight bags for our Miele vacuum cleaner in hand. Pretty sure I could cut each bag into five or six masks. But I need to keep a few intact, or my HEPA filter won't do much to help me through allergy season.
Allergy season without drugs and filters: touching your face to a fresh snot rag at 10 mHz, all day every day.
OK (Score:2)
Face shields are very simple objects.
You could probably make your own for a tiny fraction of the
"Offical Medical Grade" ones, and it would work just as well.