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Medicine Canada

World's First Opioid Vending Machine Opens In Vancouver (theguardian.com) 117

Posted by BeauHD from the first-of-its-kind dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: A vending machine for powerful opioids has opened in Canada as part of a project to help fight the Canadian city's overdose crisis. The MySafe project, which resembles a cash machine, gives addicts access to a prescribed amount of medical quality hydromorphone, a drug about twice as powerful as heroin. Don Durban, a social worker from Vancouver, is one of 14 opioid addicts using the MySafe vending machine. After being prescribed opioid-based painkillers in the early 2000s, the father of two developed an addiction and now feels unable to cope without a daily dose of hydromorphone.

Unlike most addicts, Durban, 66, does not have to break the law by sourcing his fix through drug dealers. Instead he is prescribed Dilaudid -- the brand name for hydromorphone -- and, for the past couple of weeks, has been able to collect his pills from a vending machine near his home in Eastside, a rundown neighborhood with a large homeless community. "This is a godsend," he told the Guardian during one of his visits to the machine. After verifying his identity with a biometric fingerprint scan, the machine dispensed Durban with three pills for each of his four daily visits, in line with his prescription. "It means I don't have to go and buy iffy dope," he said. "I have a clean supply. I don't have to deal with other people so much. You're treated like an adult, not some kind of demonic dope fiend. We're just people with mental health issues."
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World's First Opioid Vending Machine Opens In Vancouver More

World's First Opioid Vending Machine Opens In Vancouver

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  • Now would be a good time (Score:3, Informative)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Monday February 17, 2020 @11:35PM (#59738248)
    to remind everybody why the drug war exists [youtu.be]

    • Re:Now would be a good time (Score:4, Insightful)

      by sabbede ( 2678435 ) on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @09:54AM (#59739210)
      Does that mean encouraging opioid addiction is good? Because that's what this does - it encourages and facilitates opioid addiction and abuse. And the public pays for it.

      Is that what anyone wants?

      • Does that mean encouraging opioid addiction is good? Because that's what this does - it encourages and facilitates opioid addiction and abuse. And the public pays for it.

        Does it? You have data that proves that? Personally I do not know as I don't have the data. As usual without the data, I am on the fence. I do know that the war on drugs is a complete disaster for all of us. Trillions spent (the "public pays for it") & I can still walk down the street anywhere & score dope.

        • Re:Now would be a good time (Score:4, Insightful)

          by sabbede ( 2678435 ) on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @11:12AM (#59739414)
          If you take a dangerous activity that feels good and remove the danger, more people will engage in it. You can verify that with logic or observation, it is a fact of human behavior.

          If you want numbers, look at Portugal. They decriminalized everything in 2000, and while IV-spread diseases dropped sharply, drug use shot up. More people got hooked on heroin, and it continued to kill them. Sure, there was less "drug crime", but if you decriminalized petty theft and vandalism you'd see a sharp decline in property crimes, if you eliminated traffic laws you'd see the end of traffic violations. (https://web.archive.org/web/20110725093536/http://www.idt.pt/PT/IDT/Documents/Ponto_Focal/2009_NationalReport.pdf)

          Whether the "War on drugs" worked or was a good idea is irrelevant. The question is if making addiction safe and easy will be good or bad. If more addiction is bad and something a society should try to avoid, then encouraging it is not a good idea.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Anonymous Coward
            Here is another take https://time.com/longform/port... [time.com]

          • Or it could be you can just measure it accurately (Score:5, Insightful)

            by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @11:43AM (#59739510)
            because people don't have to fear decades in jail if they get caught doing the activity.

            I mean, sure, we know abortions happen in countries that ban abortion, and we know it's at about the same rate. We know this because we can do indirect measurements (population growth rates, birth rates, etc). But we only know it's "about the same rate".As a result we know less about women's health issues in those countries, and are less prepared to address them.

            You're also skipping over a key point: We make it safe, we don't make it easy. We make _treatment_ easy. I mean, you're right, if you just sell folks hard drugs, get them hooked and abandon them you're going to have problems. You don't do that. You make treatment an easier option than addiction. You can't do that by criminalizing drugs because unless you're wealthy enough to be left alone by the criminal justice system then you're going to skip treatment because the risk of being thrown in prison is too high.

          • Re:Now would be a good time (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Bruinwar ( 1034968 ) <bruinwar@hotmaiERDOSl.com minus math_god> on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @11:48AM (#59739536)

            Heroin use shot up in the U.S. in same that time frame, so you do not know why it shot up in Portugal. The drop in crime in Portugal was likely ) because they didn't have to steal for their drugs. Comparing that to eliminating traffic laws means less violations is not at all the same thing & I think you know that.

            The hard core addict getting their drugs from the state (at the public's expense) must scare the crap out of the drug cartels. It might also make DIA workers a bit nervous. The war on drugs is completely relevant in this discussion as an expansion of programs like this just might end it. This is about harm reduction & it's only your opinion that it encourages drug use. Do you believe providing free condoms encourages more sex? IMO the absolute hell of addiction is by itself a massive deterrent.

          • Re:Now would be a good time (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Headw1nd ( 829599 ) on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @01:47PM (#59739902)
            I see you commenting up and down this thread, and in all your posts I see you are failing to justify your main point: That addiction has some intrinsic greater harm that outweighs the harm from related effects like disease transmission, crime, and poverty. If addiction is harmless, then why should we care if the rates go up? Punishing people is not virtuous for its own sake. Is your intent to harm people simply because they are partaking in an activity you don't like?
          • It's my understanding that jumping off a really tall building feels really good. Of course, that's until you hit the pavement below.

            • It's my understanding that jumping off a really tall building feels really good. Of course, that's until you hit the pavement below.

              This just proves his point. People have become addicted to parachutes, which removed the danger for people jumping off of tall buildings. It's a crisis! as it encourages dangerous activity. We must take action!

              Let the War on Parachutes begin.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by yarbo ( 626329 )

            What numbers specifically stand out to you as signs of rise in addiction?

            Prevalence of use in past 30 days seems like a good indicator and those numbers seem pretty stable. (page 18)

          • People don't understand the data they use when it comes to Portugal.

            Drugs were already on the rise, and decriminalizing them was more of a way to hide the fact that a European country looks worse than a Latin American country (I live nearby and visit on occasion -- it's a shithole of a country -- I'd rather use a hospital in Mexico than Portugal).

            The reason drugs were used in the first place and that decriminalizing them didn't solve shit, is because life in Portugal sucks if you're not wealthy.
            They're not

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Rakhar ( 2731433 )

            I drank way more booze before I turned 21 than after. When it became legal for me to buy my own, I no longer felt compelled to get blackout drunk and instead had a few beers with dinner. I still consumed alcohol, but in much safer doses.

            I'm willing to bet that the same could be said for many drugs in similar circumstances.

          • Because we've seen untold amount of people showing up high at work and getting high and driving into things in the wake of cannabis legalization, right?

            Nope. Because, as it turns out, if people want to smoke pot, they probably already were, regardless of legality. All we managed to do, is send you to Creepy Larry down at that shitty apartment complex to get a varying-quality marginal product from a varying-quality person, for more cost, and that money likely flows to criminal enterprises in Mexico who are

      • Don't know that is the case. I suspect few if anyone plans on getting hooked. Once hooked till they decide to get clean programs like this are all about harm reduction. They have a known quality of the drug they are getting, don't have to interact with dealers to get it, depending on what the price is don't need to commit a bunch of robberies to fund their habit etc.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by fropenn ( 1116699 )
        You have to give addicts a chance to be redeemed. Death by overdose pretty much prevents that opportunity.

        Note that you can't get access to these machines until you've already established that you are an addict - so it's not a mechanism for creating new addicts.

        And, by the way, the public already pays heavy costs for addiction - crime prevention, medical care, etc. These machines will likely save the public money.
  • There should be such a machine for weed as well

  • Pharmacy? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Way Smarter Than You ( 6157664 ) on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @12:13AM (#59738334)
    If it's his prescription why can't he go into a pharmacy to get it filled?
    • Probably so they can get it when they need it, not just when the pharmacy is open.
    • Because you can't trust junkies with the dosage. He gets 3 pills 4x per day and I'm sure there's a timer that won't dispense early, otherwise he'll still kill himself.

    • If it's his prescription why can't he go into a pharmacy to get it filled?

      Because using the vending machine is cheaper, faster, and more convenient.

  • Seems like a flash point for crime.

    • Yes, even smart people sometimes forget the most obvious things...

      I don't think they could have possibly not thought about that one though ...

      • It will almost certainly happen, but that's a minor flaw when compared to the insurmountable flaw in the core concept - that this can only encourage opioid abuse and addiction.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by dryeo ( 100693 )

      Yep, just like ATM machines.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by spudnic ( 32107 )

      Rather than breaking into the machine, junkies will just wait around for some to get their dosage and rob them. I guess you'd have to get good at taking it as soon as it drops.

      Or maybe forcing a known legitimate user to withdraw their dosage and hand it over.

  • Things you could do to reduce opioid dependency:
    Outlaw prescription opioids
    Move opioid possession from a jailable offense to mandatory rehab
    Give out free methedone, an semi-effective gateway to breaking dependency already used in the UK

    What you did:
    Opened a fucking vending machine.

    This is the fucking corporations idea so they can get legalized addiction and make billions, crazy criminals living in filth or rather "severe mental health problems" get put in psych wards, but as soon as it's monetizabl

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by lazarus ( 2879 )

      This is the fucking corporations idea so they can get legalized addiction and make billions
      No, TFA says "Dr Mark Tyndall, a professor of epidemiology at the University of British Columbia, came up with the project as part of an attempt to reduce the number of overdose deaths in the city, which reached 395 last year."

      crazy criminals living in filth or rather "severe mental health problems" get put in psych wards, but as soon as it's monetizable you open a fucking vending machine
      I can't actually figure out wh

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ahodgson ( 74077 )

        Safe injection sites here do not give you drugs, they just have a nurse standing by to resurrect you when you OD.

        This is apparently a new escalation.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dryeo ( 100693 )

          There's experimental clinics that give out heroin. From what I understand it is quite successful at turning homeless thieving junkies into productive members of society who have a drug problem that isn't caffeine or alcohol or other socially acceptable drugs that are generally more harmful.

          • There's experimental clinics that give out heroin. From what I understand it is quite successful at turning homeless thieving junkies into productive members of society who have a drug problem that isn't caffeine or alcohol or other socially acceptable drugs that are generally more harmful.

            There are also some similar clinics that do the same with alcohol; go in at specified times and get a glass of wine.
            It's not in any way good wine, but to someone that addicted who can't function at all when in withdrawl, it's enough to take the edge off.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ahodgson ( 74077 )

            I guess that might work with heroin. Probably less well with other hard drugs.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by dryeo ( 100693 )

              Yea, some drugs are pretty bad though they also have the problems with quality control which leads to poisoning. For many there may be healthier alternatives, things like small amounts of amphetamines or back to chewing on coca leaves

        • Safe injection sites here do not give you drugs, they just have a nurse standing by to resurrect you when you OD.

          And give out clean new needles, greatly reducing
          the threat of passing on diseases like AIDS and hepatitus.

    • I would say tour crazy but the evidence in the US supported this. Several years ago a Rite Aid or Walgreens was opening on every block. We had 3x more of each brand than we had Starbucks. Then they came in and passed sweeping prescription drug reforms. We know how that made heroin users over night. What we dont hear about is how Rite Aid ended up closing half their stores and sold another chunk to Walgreens.

      Why did they open so many stores? In the height of prescription pill abuse and doctor shopping, there

    • Why would you suggest outlawing prescription opioids? That's not solving anything but it might be "punishing" people who genuinely need them. You do know that there are legitimate uses for opioids, right? If your suggestion ever came to fruition you'd better hope that you never experience severe chronic pain

      • No one really needs prescription opioids.If they do, they can have them administered by medical staff. You must not be aware that they don't actually work as described? They get you high and addicted. When high, at least for awhile, you won't complain about pain.

        • No one really needs prescription opioids.
          If they do, they can have them administered by medical staff.

          If there are any handy.
          And there often isn't thanks to overcrowding at hospital ER wards.

    • Rehab doesn't help fuck-all.

      See, a drug is always a substitute for something you lack.
      And the more you take it, the more you need, until you are numbed to a point where the original doesn't even do it for you anymore.

      And what rehab does... is take away the drug, and force you to live without it.
      Without giving you what you originally lacked! That is still missing!
      So as soon as you're out, you start longing for a fix again. Duh!
      Rehab fixed nothing at all!

      Yes, for Heroin, that would literally kill you so they

      • Just curious...lacking what?

      • Life is pain, princess. Welcome to it, enjoy your stay.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by fennec ( 936844 )
        So what solution do you propose? Let them die quickly?
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        Loved him more than anyone on this planet.

        No you didn't and you need to come to terms with that. If you loved you would have wanted him live his God given life to the fullest not hang it up in defeat.

        Not everything you say here is wrong. We certainly do treat addicts badly in a lot cases. I however have had friends who were addicts and did go to rehab and used things like methadone to get clean. It took a couple of them a DECADE to be NORMALish and they still sometimes have hard days. They are here though and they are living and enjoying at leas

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ChoGGi ( 522069 )

      but as soon as it's monetizable you open a fucking vending machine. Cash in Canada, I'm sure the rest of the world will be close behind!

      They're not paying for them, this is a way to reduce the burden of nurses/doctors having to hand them out every day (or so), you can't give a junkie a months supply and expect them to take them properly.

    • Heroin maintenance is more effective than methadone maintenance, UK and others have shown that. What about the corporation making methadone?

  • ... profits from it.

    That's how you recognize, a drug is legal. ;)

  • âoe You're treated like an adult,â he says? Right ⦠because real men go get free drugs from a vending machine four times a day. Thatâ(TM)s what adults do. #facepalm
  • If you find yourself resenting people in pain or in a difficult situation you might need to spend some time having a word with yourself.

  • i mean, you have a machine dispensing drugs in a 'rundown neighborhood with a large homeless community'.
    you'll probably get robbed for your drugs the minute you get them.

  • The INTENT of this is to make it safer and easier to be an opioid addict. If you make something safer and easier, you get more of it. If the goal is to reduce the number of addicts, making it easier to be one is not going to achieve that goal. It WILL have the exact opposite effect.

    Forget theft and abuse. That will absolutely happen, but it is not why this is a tremendously bad idea. The central problem is that this does not discourage opioid abuse, it directly facilitates and encourages abuse and t

    • Sure, we get more addicts - because they aren't dying off.

      Okay, one of the things I've learned is that properly identifying the goal is important. It is really easy to get stuck on an intermediary goal.

      In this case, I would argue that the reason we want fewer addicts is the harm that addicts experience and cause. As such, if we can reduce the harm otherwise, reducing the number of addicts may not be a good measurement or effective means of reducing said harm.

      I view addiction, especially opioid addiction,

      • No, you get more addicts because there's no motive to get clean and nothing to discourage non-addicts from getting hooked. They remain trapped by it, you've only made that less unpleasant. They may not directly inconvenience everyone else as often, but if that's the metric then this is all about sweeping a problem under the rug rather than fixing it. Worse, the government is now the one keeping them sick. The people are paying to keep addicts hooked on government heroin. Does that sound right to you?

        • Incorrect. Sadly, heroin is so addictive that motive to get clean isn't a significant factor.

          And what you call sweeping under the rug is merely acknowledging the real problem. A real sweeping under the rug is our current system, where we ignore their problems, call it a moral failing, and put them in prisons to hide the problems without fixing them.

          As I said, what is the problem with taking opioids for life? Plenty already do. Hell, I'm diabetic, should I be weaned off of my drugs?

          Paying to keep them ho

  • Look, I'm *in favor* of legalized drugs.
    I strongly believe that people should have the right to destroy themselves in any way they choose that doesn't harm others.

    But WTF?
    Why are we bending over backwards to enable these people and save them from themselves?
    I watched a special the other day on the lifesaving efforts of volunteers cruising some street in Vancouver famous for addicts.

    IIRC one guy it was their THIRD (?) Naloxone rescue in a day? Why are they bothering to save someone who clearly wants to self

  • Drug companies got everyone addicted to this crap, now they have vending machines to keep them addicted. Instead of getting them safely OFF the drugs, lets just put up a vending machine so they can stay hooked. I was prescribed that crap once after a root canal procedure. I took a couple tylenol PM to get some sleep and the next day, most of the pain was gone. The prescription was shredded. I'm sure there are some pain problems that can only be solved by the use of such drugs, but, they need to be slowly

  • I worked on a project in the 90's to dispense narcotics with a vending machine to nurses on at the hospital-floor level. This was better for the nurses because when they had a large bottle to dispense from and some went missing, everybody started pointing fingers. The vending machine had the nurse's id scanned and the patient ID scanned and then dispensed the correct packet.

    This may be the first user-facing opioid vending machine.

    • Not a nurse but I worked closely with them for years, and I've never seen a "large bottle of pills" to dispense from.

      Narcs were kept in a locked box, with one nurse/shift having the key, and were counted by both the narc nurse and the nurse who was taking care of the patient. Pills were all in blister packs, nothing loose. Small-dose-volume IV narcs were kept in the same box, if a patient was on a PCA device the pharmacist hand delivered the container of morphine and the pump that delivered it had to be u

  • Itâ(TM)s not âoeEastsideâ, itâ(TM)s the Downtown Eastside, or DTES for short. At one point it was the center of commerce in Vancouver, with department stores and butchers and the sort. Over time the business district was established further west and the DTES started to dilapidate. Homelessness grew and services entered to assist them, creating a cycle of poverty as more homeless found themselves tolerated in the area with services to assist them. Vancouver is also a major port city w

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