How India's Single Time Zone Is Hurting Its People (bbc.com) 175
"The BBC reports on the detrimental effects of all of India being in one time zone since British Colonial rule," writes Slashdot reader dryriver. From the report: India stretches 3,000km (1,864 miles) from east to west, spanning roughly 30 degrees longitude. This corresponds with a two-hour difference in mean solar times -- the passage of time based on the position of the sun in the sky. The U.S. equivalent would be New York and Utah sharing one time zone. Except that in this case, it also affects more than a billion people -- hundreds of millions of whom live in poverty. The school day starts at more or less the same time everywhere in India but children go to bed later and have reduced sleep in areas where the sun sets later. An hour's delay in sunset time reduces children's sleep by 30 minutes. Using data from the India Time Survey and the national Demographic and Health Survey, [Cornell University Economist] Maulik Jagnani found that school-going children exposed to later sunsets get fewer years of education, and are less likely to complete primary and middle school. He found evidence that suggested that sunset-induced sleep deprivation is more pronounced among the poor, especially in periods when households face severe financial constraints. "This might be because sleep environments among poor households are associated with noise, heat, mosquitoes, overcrowding, and overall uncomfortable physical conditions. The poor may lack the financial resources to invest in sleep-inducing goods like window shades, separate rooms, indoor beds and adjust their sleep schedules," he told me.
Ugh (Score:2, Informative)
Timezone is the same... But is everyone FORCED to start school at the same time? Is there a law saying school on the west coast must start at the same time as school on the east coast? Is there a law saying parents must send kids to bed at 8pm regardless of season and location? Timezone enthusiasts are so dumb
You want to be stuck on this planet forever? Because being so obtuse is how you get stuck on this planet and go extinct.
When we start living off this planet we will need to be able to synchronize activ
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Having a large fleet of dedicated school buses which are used for just a few hours each weekday is wasteful, they sit idle during the schoolday and at night or weekends. Much better cost savings can be had by having kids travel on normal commercial buses.
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Much better cost savings can be had by having kids travel on normal commercial buses.
School buses are optimized for carrying school-ages kids. You can get a lot more students on a school bus than on a "normal commercial bus". Also, school buses can travel specialized routes based on where the students are and ignore all the commercial destinations. And they can travel at the right times so students don't have to be at the bus a half an hour or more early so they can catch the "commercial bus". And finally, since school tends to start about the same time as "rush hour", the commercial buses
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There are plenty of places in the western world which don't use dedicated school busses for the school run, and they seem to work just fine....
Or were you unaware of that?
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There are plenty of places in the western world which don't use dedicated school busses for the school run, and they seem to work just fine....
Yes, I know they do. There are places where it is difficult if not impossible to provide a dedicated service. And they face the issues that I mentioned that make using dedicated buses a better solution in general. So what? That doesn't change what I said.
Or were you unaware of that?
Please say something that is a response to what I wrote.
China is worse (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:China is worse (Score:5, Informative)
it spans 5 time zones [wikipedia.org]. Its kids must have even more problems.
The Chinese have figured out how to stagger school opening times. The students in Xinjiang go to class much later than students in Heilongjiang.
Apparently the Indians haven't thought of that yet.
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it spans 5 time zones [wikipedia.org]. Its kids must have even more problems.
The Chinese have figured out how to stagger school opening times. The students in Xinjiang go to class much later than students in Heilongjiang.
Apparently the Indians haven't thought of that yet.
But it isn't just school. We offices and test sites spanning over 4 time zones. Given that the workday tends to happen when it is light out, Who loses? They start at 8 and end at 5. If I'm calling out west, I have to remember that I can't call a colleague before 11 .a.m. my time and he can't call me after 2 his time.
Except for one assistan I had that couldn't figure that out, and I was on an extended trip to the west coast, and he kept calling me at 0800 his time. After the fourth time of getting me up
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Given the replies from some Indian slashdotters, they do seem to have it figured out afterall. Which makes you wonder WTH this article is about.
Question (Score:2)
"The U.S. equivalent would be New York and Utah sharing one time zone. Except that in this case, it also affects more than a billion people -- hundreds of millions of whom live in poverty."
I didn't think that many people actually lived in Utah... /kidding
I have to admit the first thing I thought about, after reading this, was Futurama:
Mars was a dreary uninhabitable wasteland much like Utah. But unlike Utah, it was eventually made livable. [youtube.com]
Oh, please (Score:2)
Try living in the Western US, or Canada, where stuff happens.
Now, get rid of Daylight Savings Time and then we can discuss India and time zones, whilst the entirety of China, which is much much much wider, is in a single time zone.
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whilst the entirety of China, which is much much much wider, is in a single time zone. ... similar to the rest of the business.
But kids in the west of China don't get up same time as kids in the east
So DST should be abolished in US (Score:2)
If later sunset is an issue then the DST is compounding that. Children at risk mentioned in this article still see sunset much earlier than in USA with DST. You see most of high latitude India falls near the center of the India and hence they are not affected. The only people affected are West zone mid latitude who may see about 30 minute time delay (95% of India population is within +- 30 min of mid longitude). So most people see sunset before 7:30 pm (95%). Now compare that to US with DST where more than
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Yes, but the start of the school day changes too. So if they are losing sleep in the evening they can gain it back the next morning
The case of the article is that children on the west coast of India and children on the east coast of India are starting school at the exact same time, yet the children on the west coast have sunset an hour later, so get to sleep later. They don't get up later, though, they get up at the same time.
Add a timezone and then they get up an hour later, and thus get more sleep.
DST d
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children on the west coast of India and children on the east coast of India are starting school at the exact same time
1. False - even the summary of this article states that they are "more or less" the same, not exact same time.
2. Even more-or-less the same is wrong - as I explained in this comment : https://science.slashdot.org/c... [slashdot.org]
Add a timezone and then they get up an hour later, and thus get more sleep.
Bullshit. Just get the school to open later - as can be and is frequently done at state, district or school level.
Another blatant lie from the article
School summer vacations in India are between April and June
Absolutely false - or rather an illiterate's generalization. Multiple southern states have summer vacations for children from March-May. Kashmi
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Perhaps you want to read at least the summary.
East to west sunset difference is 2 - 3 hours. Not 30 minutes. And DST has nothing to do with it.
Canada also has this (Score:3)
In Canada, Quebec and Ontario are both in Eastern Standard Time, also nearly a 30 degree span.
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Not all of Ontario. A very large chunk of northern Ontario (everything west of Thunder Bay, roughly) is on Central Time. (Actually, the time zone split should go through the middle of Thunder Bay but it was shifted west one railroad stop for practical reasons.)
Re: Canada also has this (Score:2)
Yes, but the EST time zone runs from 62 degrees longitude through 90 degrees, thus 28 degrees, which is comparable to the OPâ(TM)s point about India.
Geography of India (Score:5, Insightful)
The portion exposed to later sunsets, by 30 minutes are the states of Rajastan and the kutch of Gujarat. The most arid, dry parts of India that includes the Thar desert. At the border is Pakistan, in a different time zone giving children across the border better sleep time.
One would think compare the achievements of children across the border of India and Pakistan to see the effect of time zone, while keeping remaining geographical influences the same. Instead the researcher compares the densely populated fertile parts of India with the desert part of India and tries to attribute the differences to the time zone.
It is a thesis from Cornell. I read only the abstract and the intro. I did not see any indication the researcher is controlling for this. Hope there is a good explanation for it.
Your comparison is not better (Score:3, Insightful)
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same time everywhere (Score:2)
>"The school day starts at more or less the same time everywhere in India"
Well, perhaps THAT is the main problem then? Perhaps they should start school an hour later or earlier on the fringes. Or is there some law not allowing that? Wow, such a complicated problem.
Invented problems (Score:3)
The "researcher" is trying to invent the problem where nothing exists. Most likely he has already written his paper before collecting data, and fit the data to suit his theory. He tactfully adds that problem is for "poor" people, so that anybody will think twice before rebutting his theory.
India is perfectly fine with a single time zone. Our east wakes up when the sun is coming up, around 4 AM. In the west they may normally go to bed couple of hours after sun goes down, regardless what the clock says. Our day light hours vary very little with season with maximum deviation of about 4 hours in northern latitudes. So India is much better placed with number of night hours than most of US.
The real problem is for the IT slaves working night shifts to cover US time zones, which no time zone tweaking is going to fix.
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The real problem is for the IT slaves working night shifts to cover US time zones, which no time zone tweaking is going to fix.
Well, if you shifted over to Eastern Standard Time , the problem would be solved /s
Europe and Africa too (Score:2)
This is similar to Europe.
Rigio, in Greece, is at 26.5 E, and Campos in Spain is 9.28 W, so that's a difference of over 35.8 degrees. They are roughly the same lattitude (41.4 vs 43, respectively), and they are in the same time zone.
In India's case, it's all one country. So you can understand why they might have the one timezone.
In the case of Europe, there are many countries in between these two points, so there's is more reason to have multiple time zones across here.
There are several countries in Afric
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They are roughly the same lattitude (41.4 vs 43, respectively), and they are in the same time zone.
No they are not.
Greece is plus one, or even plus two, to lazy to look it up for you.
blatant lie (Score:3)
The school day starts at more or less the same time everywhere
Private schools can choose their starting time - unless the time is prohibited by law, or local district regulation. School laws fall under state subject - which means the state is the primary legal entity responsible for creating such laws. None of the states measures 3000 kilometers. 800 km is rarely or maybe never a distance in any direction to any direction in a state - let alone latitudinally.
District collector can order schools to start at times deemed convenient for kids - no district measures more than a few hundred km in any direction.
E.g. https://indianexpress.com/arti... [indianexpress.com]
There are many multi-shift schools - which have 2 sessions per day. So within a school, there are kids in multiple "time zones" - e.g. 7am to noon, and 12:30 pm to 5:30 pm.
Ask 10 children in India their school timings, and you will likely get 12 unique answers.
Tell Spain about it - still on fascist time (Score:2)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com]
"In 1942, the Spanish dictator General Franco moved Spain onto Central European Time to follow Nazi Germany." ...and they remain there today. That is, Spain is West of Greenwich, but on the time zone one East of Greenwich. And its a 2013 article about this costing productivity, but they remain there today.
Sure, blame the timezone (Score:3)
The timezone does not force kids go to the school at the same time all over India. Stupid people do.
IMHO having a single timezone and not having to deal with conversions is mostly beneficial. But you need to let go of the idea that everyone works from 9 to 5 or goes to school at a set time.
In the tiny Netherlands, which is certainly within a single timezone, schools vary their starting times however they see fit. Even their holidays vary, though that is determined regionally and not per school.
Timezones are an antiquated "technology" (Score:2)
Re:Considering the toilet situation (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Considering the toilet situation (Score:5, Insightful)
A country can try to solve more than one issue at once.
Especially when the solution is obvious: Just start the school day an hour later in the west.
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A country can try to solve more than one issue at once.
Especially when the solution is obvious: Just start the school day an hour later in the west.
That's just a different time zone then. Only you don't call it a different time zone.
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They should delay school by 2-3 hours across the whole country so the kids can sleep better, it's standard practice to start school a few hours before the time (research shows) that kids are actually wide awake.
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The whole of society doesn't want to start the fucking day a 10am. The little bastards need to go to bed at night instead of staying up late. I know, I was one of those little bastards not long ago.
I would stay up on my computer until midnight or worse and gee, wonder why 1st period was always so difficult.
Now as an adult, I work at 5:30am. I know that if I don't go to bed by 9 that I won't have much sleep and will basically be putting my next day on hard mode.
Want kids to do better in school? Then they nee
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The whole of society doesn't want to start the fucking day a 10am. The little bastards need to go to bed at night instead of staying up late. I know, I was one of those little bastards not long ago.
Unfortunately children are biological organisms and not machines. You can send a child to bed two hours earlier, and even do it consistently, but they still won't fall asleep at that time. Having a routine set is only part of the problem, the other part of the problem is millions of years of evolution that makes our sleep cycle correspond with the sun.
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There's got to be more to it than that. I put my kids to bed at 8 every day. In winter, that's 3 hours after sunset. In summer, that's an hour before sunset. On average, they actually get to sleep at roughly the same time in either season.
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There is slightly more to it. If people are going to sleep before sunset, you'll need to block out the light from the windows. :-)
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There is slightly more to it. If people are going to sleep before sunset, you'll need to block out the light from the windows. :-)
That alone might not work. The colour of the sunlight changes throughout the day. There are more blue tones at mid day and more red tones in the evening.
Even if you're blocking out all light into the room, the body clock is set by the colour of light it is exposed to. Now if you bring them inside and block off all access to outside light for several hours before bed- probably have some of those ugly yellow lights the colour of the old incandescent bulbs from before we had LEDs around the house- to trick
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I mean it kind of does. I always had a hard time going to sleep on time at night and waking up early for school. In fact, I was one tardy away from failing high school and I was late to my own graduation when I avoided failing!
And you know what? When I got jobs, I found that the real world wasn't like school. I started working at 9, 11, 12, 14. I hate waking up early so now I don't.
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No - banks, factories, post-offices, transportation offices, agriculture all may have different requirements. If every other aspect of life is affected just because an idiot badly studied only schools - that is not called a different time zone but pure madness.
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No - banks, factories, post-offices, transportation offices, agriculture all may have different requirements. If every other aspect of life is affected just because an idiot badly studied only schools - that is not called a different time zone but pure madness.
Correct. Kinda. Humans have evolved to be primarily daylight animals. So we have evolved to work while it is daylight out. That part is simple. It means that in any given area, the people will work most efficiently during the day. So the whole concept that some have espoused of having one time zone for the whole globe means more of that madness you speak of. Not only would some people be forced to start and end work at varying light or dark hours, they would have to come to grips with the fact that the next
Re: Considering the toilet situation (Score:2)
Absolutely false. What is insane is the idea that just because it is certain o'clock, one must start working irrespective of sunlight, nature of work, season, health etc. Once this insane idea is gone, banks can work when it makes sense for banks to work, and agricultural irrigation water can be supplied when it makes sense for it to be supplied. And of course, schools in India can be and are ordered at district level to change their timings according to local conditions.
I was feeling sleepy today at 4pm.
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Absolutely false. What is insane is the idea that just because it is certain o'clock, one must start working irrespective of sunlight, nature of work, season, health etc.
Oh you throw the pejoratives around there Sparky. Sorry, child, but it is not at all "insane" or "retarded" to want to do work when it is light out. Good day, Sparky.
Re: Considering the toilet situation (Score:2)
"Insane" comes from your own post. "Retarded" from your imagination. And light can be out at any o'clock. So just work when light is out if it matters to you. My server was down at 3 am : light out did not matter.
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That's just a different time zone then. Only you don't call it a different time zone.
No it is not.
Trains, planes etc. are scheduled to the "time zone" not to the opening of schools.
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That's just a different time zone then. Only you don't call it a different time zone. No it is not. Trains, planes etc. are scheduled to the "time zone" not to the opening of schools.
You are reading it too specifically. If you are in a certain time zone that is covering an area that is too large for it, and set the western time as the same time zone, but send them to school an hour later than in the eastern portion, you are doing the exact same thing as sending them to school at the same numerical time in a different time zone number.
Either way, the students in the western portion are going to school an hour later. No difference in effect. Students in the east - 8:00 a.m. Students in
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you are doing the exact same thing as sending them to school at the same numerical time in a different time zone number.
Obviously. That is actually the point of the linked article, or isn't it?
Either way, the students in the western portion are going to school an hour later. No difference in effect. Students in the east - 8:00 a.m. Students in the west, 9:00 a.m. ...
The point is: at the moment they all go at the same time to school
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That's just a different time zone then. Only you don't call it a different time zone.
And yet it has none of the confusion of "now is that time in Time Zone 1, 2, or 3?". But, I suppose it does introduce the confusion of "what do you mean 6p is too late to call you??".
No matter what people come up with, there is no really good solution. Because the earth is a tilted globe, and people tend to have a solution based on their local conditions. Meanwhile, most of us have a system that works. I can call anyone around the globe while they are at work, by simply doing about 500 milliseconds of math, and correlating with my time. I've had to do it for years. If we all went to say Universal time, which is one time zone for the whole planet, I'd have munltiple tables to look up, mo
An artificial problem [Re:Considering...] (Score:2)
"The school day starts at more or less the same time everywhere in India but children go to bed later and have reduced sleep in areas where the sun sets later."
Yes, this is an artificial problem. One time zone doesn't mean every single school has to start at exactly the same time.
Start the school at the time that makes sense. Problem solved.
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Especially when the solution is obvious: Just start the school day an hour later in the west.
Indeed, and I've always thought this would be the proper solution, not just for India, but regarding schools in the rest of the world instead of having the Daylight Saving Time switch. I think mainland US could run on one time. Just use central time. The work day doesn't have to be 8 to 5; it can be any time, if it's 11 to 8 on the West coast, and people don't go to bed until after midnight... so be it. From a logistics standpoint, it seems adjusting what hours people work makes more sense than having
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The problem is that you just swap one problem - different time zones for another one - not knowing the hours of operation of the place you're calling.
For example, if you ring someone in a different time-zone now, you can just ask what time it is there, e.g. it's 9am there but 10am where you are, and you immediately know they're 1 hour behind you and that office hours there are still "9 to 5".
However the "no time zones but everyone works different hours based on the sun" system would in fact be more confusin
9 to 5 is not written into the constitution (Score:2)
The problem is that you just swap one problem - different time zones for another one - not knowing the hours of operation of the place you're calling.
I already have that problem. Some of the places I work with follow the canonical "9 to 5" schedule, but by no means all. Other places start the day at 8:00. Some places even start at 7:00. And a lot of places have flex time; some people I know even get in to work at 6am.
Many offices have "flex Friday," where some Fridays (but not all) you can't call them at any time of day, but other days they work an extra hour every day.
Knowing how to read the clock does not substitute for knowing the business hours.
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What about businesses and schools that have a 7 hour day? BOOM, mind blown!?!
Being a little smarty pants in this post, apologies. Seriously though, what's the big deal? I think children going to school is more important than any inconveniences the flexible hours solution calls for.
Example
I want to talk to my cousin's school in another city, I call, they don't answer, I call back an hour later. Maybe even listen to their answering machine that would tell me their office hours. End of the world averted.
Exampl
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Example
I need to talk to a widget supplier on the other side of India. Well, I could email, or I could call. I don't know when to call India now without DuckDuckGoing some info... but if it was a regular part of my job I guess I'd want to know when that business worked.
After two or three mistakes like that, you should have learned.
After two or three complaints about calling at inappropriate times, you get a stern notice.
After two or three stern notices you are fired, and I hope you find a job where "guessin
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except we've lost all additional layers of context for what a time of "5pm" actually means, which means we have to convey additional information on calls, not less.
No, it's less info, and far less complicated info.
Currently around the world we need timezone, whether or not they use DST, whether or not either of you are using DST, and the hours of operation of the business/person you're calling. You need to do all the fucking mental arithmetic to add up all those things and account for all that shit to see if you're going to both be around at the same time. Then once you find that common time you need to convert into each person's timezone so it makes sense to them.
In
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If they say 8am-5pm in UTC-1 with DST and you say 8am-5pm in UTC+6 without DST, what time are each of the parties available in common?
You figure that only once, and write it into your address book in the contact info, using your local time.
Wow, that was easy again.
If you are in doubt you make an appointment for a phone call via email, you can even delegate that to your secretary and she will talk to the secretary of the other guy ... I really wonder if anyone here on /. with "timezone problems" lives in the
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I really wonder if anyone here on /. with "timezone problems" lives in the real world or on a moon orbiting jupiter, you are hilarious.
And you obviously have never had to schedule virtual meetings with people in different timezones. You've never had your laptop fail to realize that you're a timezone over and that it needs to update meeting notification times. You've never encountered multiple people within the same timezone that both do and don't do DST that you need to schedule a meeting with.
I have done that, and I've worked with a lot of people who have done that. You thinking that this is easy is what's hilarious. You apparently have n
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And you obviously have never had to schedule virtual meetings with people in different timezones.
Yes I have.
And I wrote software for flight schedules and crew assignments 30 years ago, where all departures and landings are in local time
Sorry, people who can not even schedule a business meeting should simply change the job.
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you can just ask what time it is there
If there were no timezones, you could just ask them what times they're open and do no calculations.
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Instead of knowing the time offset of each place, you'd have to have a chart for every city for what is considered "work hours" there.
Yeah, and that is surprisingly easy. Everyone in Europe has that in his mind. Or do you really think some one in Greece entering office at 9:00 is calling one in Berlin, Paris or London right away? (And that are actually 3 real time zones difference).
Instead of knowing the time offset of each place, you'd have to have a chart for every city for what is considered "work hours"
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Also, if you actually travel to a time zone, you have to recalculate everything. Bedtime, meal times, get up time, work time, etc. It's doable, but potentially exhausting, and it would be pretty easy to slip up occasionally and think "2 p.m." is as reasonable as "3 p.m." for waking up when you're halfway across the world without realizing you've miscalculated by an hour.
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The big problem with India is it has a population of 1 and therefore only 1 person can address 1 problem at any given time.
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Exact opposite. You didn't read the article, did you? DST will worsen the situation. In fact, if the paper is correct, it is a strong case to abolish DST in US and other countries.
Re:Sounds like they should try daylight savings ti (Score:5, Interesting)
Exact opposite. You didn't read the article, did you? DST will worsen the situation. In fact, if the paper is correct, it is a strong case to abolish DST in US and other countries.
Are you in the south? People in the south tend to not like DST because their daylight hours aren'tas variable as those in mid-north latitudes. Some places like Minnesota would have their kids waiting for the school bus in pitch black during the winter, and even in Pennsylvania, during the summer, there would be 4 hours of daylight before many people get up.
The DST and now single Time zone proponents are like a mild form of anti-vaxxing. We could all go on UT, but as an Amateur radio operator, we have to, and it just makes for different complexities.
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Ha! The Evils of TimeZones!
In the military it was Zulu time. One learned it and figured out how to deal with it. Where I work we have international operations, had to work out the business timeflow and fit the cron jobs properly. Fun times. Any other system is just that: a different but similar set of methods and operations needed for communication and resource allocation.
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Ha! The Evils of TimeZones!
In the military it was Zulu time. One learned it and figured out how to deal with it.
Yup. I use Zulu or UT a lot. For Military or radio work, you sometimes have to do that when the two or more sides simply have to connect at a certain time. But of course that means some times the same Zulu time means that what is convenient for one place during the middle of the day means other countries might have to change their entire scheduling to the business day being in the middle of the night.
So next we'll be arguing which country gets the prime daylight hours.
Where I work we have international operations, had to work out the business timeflow and fit the cron jobs properly. Fun times. Any other system is just that: a different but similar set of methods and operations needed for communication and resource allocation.
Exactly. There will be something "
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Yes, his grammar is better than most that have been in the military.
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Some places like Minnesota would have their kids waiting for the school bus in pitch black during the winter
Oh noes, won't someone invent the lightbulb to save us from this heinous darkness! Seriously though, what kind of a screwed up city doesn't have lighting at bus stops?
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Some places like Minnesota would have their kids waiting for the school bus in pitch black during the winter
Oh noes, won't someone invent the lightbulb to save us from this heinous darkness! Seriously though, what kind of a screwed up city doesn't have lighting at bus stops?
Cities are not the only place that have people in them.
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Cities are not the only places that have lightbulbs in them.
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Why would the kids be waiting in pitch black for the bus? Is Minnesota some third world location where they dont have lighting, or even fire?
And why does school have to start when the clock says 9? why can't school start at 10?
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Why would the kids be waiting in pitch black for the bus? Is Minnesota some third world location where they dont have lighting, or even fire? And why does school have to start when the clock says 9? why can't school start at 10?
Siddown and pay attention. Not everyone lives in a brightly lit up city. A surprising number of people live in the countryside.
Of course, this is just your way of showing that you aren't capable of thinking that there is anything other than what you see when you look outside the door.
Re:Sounds like they should try daylight savings ti (Score:4, Insightful)
Yay, noon time matches peak sun.... for a few days of the year. I know, lets go full retard. Daylight shifts by 3 minutes every day. Lets have a dst for every day of the year, that'll be even better! Can you imagine of the utopia?
DST is unnecessary complexity for a simple problem that is only a problem because people make it to be a problem.
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In practice, DST reduces the amount of s
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I'm from that general area. DST is annoying except for people who want an extra hour to drink at the bar.
Cute. I use it to do work around the house. It's a little strange, people that go to bars around here do it regardless of light/dark times.
School doesn't have to start at "7:30am" all year long. It can start at 7:30a at one time of the year and 8:30a at another time. Problem solved.
So do parents of children have to adjust their personal work schedules to accommodate your continuously variable start and end of the school day? Sorry boss, we'll have to have that big meeting three hours later because School starts at 10:00 a.m. today.
Does the same thing without the retarded obsession of trying to match time with the sun.
It's kinda how people evolved, Spanky. And you see nothing other than what filters in for you personally via your tu
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So do parents of children have to adjust their personal work schedules to accommodate your continuously variable start and end of the school day
We already do this with DST. Is that so hard to grasp?
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I had to look up some examples to get a good feel for what you were talking about:
Pennsylvania
https://www.timeanddate.com/su... [timeanddate.com]
dec 31, 2019:
7:30 AM rise
4:51 PM set
June 15, 2019:
5:37 AM rise
8:38 PM set
baton rouge:
dec 31
7:01 rise
5:14 set
june 15
6:02 rise
8:08 set
miami:
dec 31
7:07 rise
5:39 set
june 15
6:29 rise
8:13 set
Minneapolis:
dec 31
7:51 rise
4:41 set
june 15
5:25 rise
9:01 set
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So I guess you feel is the same as mine :D I luckily did not need to look it up.
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and its not pitch black, its snow white during the winter
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and its not pitch black, its snow white during the winter
I always though Snow White was kinda hot, but never liked those weird cartoon fantasy porns about the seven dwarves running a train on her. Know what I mean homie?
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...Minnesota would have their kids waiting for the school bus in pitch black during the winter...
TIL that Minnesota apparently doesn't have street lamps.
Tonight you learn that not every road everywhere, anywhere has street lamps.
Re:US Farmers fixed this problem decades ago (Score:4, Interesting)
That system was figured out a long time before there was a US. Every city used to have somebody whose job it was to observe the sun and set the city's clock accordingly. The problem was, that effectively means you have near infinite timezones, with everybody running on solar time.
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That system was figured out a long time before there was a US. Every city used to have somebody whose job it was to observe the sun and set the city's clock accordingly. The problem was, that effectively means you have near infinite timezones, with everybody running on solar time.
Exactly. We live on a globe, and unless we are going to submit to chaos, there has to be time zones. The DST issue is related because of changes in latitude. The variations in daylight between locations nearer the equator are much less than those the further north or south we go. That's the place where concession to daylight darkness makes some sense.
But we live on a tilty globe. And just like any map projection, no time zone light/dark cycle will be perfect. If we dump the present system, we'll just ha
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If all businesses were 24 hour, there'd be no need for time zones. Of course that'll only happen once human workers are replaced by robots.
Re: US Farmers fixed this problem decades ago (Score:2, Informative)
Except in the biggest country in the world, which goes all the way up to the artic. Russia seems to have decided against DST. But then theyâ(TM)re also already managing something like 14 time zones.
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You've clearly not seen much of the world - at least not life on different latitudes.
Near the equator, you'd be limited to 12hr days. The sun rises at 6, & it sets at 6.
And beyond certain latitudes, the big differences in the length of a day in summertime & wintertime would also present a big challenge. Heck, go far enough & the day/night cycle lasts months!
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Simply get up based on sunrise and go to bed based on sunset.
Schools should start at 1.5 hours after sunrise and get out out 7.5 hours later if the school day is 7.5 hours. No need for time zones.
Are you a flat earther?
In my work, I had to deal with time zones every day. We knew the East Coast was 3 hours ahead of the west. Since the work hours were 8-5 in most cases, it was trivial to figure out when to call. International ones were likewise trivial, other than sometimes having to stay up late or get up early.
But the concept of no time zones, everything based on local sunset sunrise times is waaaaaay too much granularity, merely substituting a workable system with thousands of different times
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But the concept of no time zones, everything based on local sunset sunrise times is waaaaaay too much granularity, merely substituting a workable system with thousands of different times.
I think the point of the article is that India doesn't have a workable system, given the problems seen by students and sleep issues. They have one timezone, not "no time zones", and a proposed solution FOR STUDENTS is to start school based on the sun schedule, not an arbitrary fixed time.
It's not creating thousands of time zones. It's using one time zone and just starting one particular function based on natural time. It has nothing to do with when businesses are open. Nobody on the west side of Injah care
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But the concept of no time zones, everything based on local sunset sunrise times is waaaaaay too much granularity, merely substituting a workable system with thousands of different times.
I think the point of the article is that India doesn't have a workable system, given the problems seen by students and sleep issues. They have one timezone, not "no time zones", and a proposed solution FOR STUDENTS is to start school based on the sun schedule, not an arbitrary fixed time.
Keep in mind that I was replying to an AC who was suggesting no time zones.
And if the concept that all of these students should start at different times because of the Sunrise and sunset, that is telling you that the country has too much east /west to be a single time zone.
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Keep in mind that I was replying to an AC who was suggesting no time zones.
No, actually, he wasn't. He said "no need for time zones". More than one.
And if the concept that all of these students should start at different times because of the Sunrise and sunset,
He didn't say that, either. All of them won't start at different times. They'll start at times that better match the natural day. There will be a lot of schools that have the same (plus or minus an insignificant amount) natural day.
that is telling you that the country has too much east /west to be a single time zone.
That is your opinion. The issue being solved based on "one time zone" (not "no time zones") is limited to school students. Businesses are free to all start at the same time and close at the same time, becau
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Simply get up based on sunrise and go to bed based on sunset.
So.. Get up at 7am and go to sleep at 3pm? During the dead of winter, Alaska doesn't even have a sunrise for several months. Time needs to work by the same rules for at least all people on earth. Time should be made monotonic and we can worry about relativistic issues in the far future.
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During the dead of winter, Alaska doesn't even have a sunrise for several months.
Last time I looked at a map, Alaska wasn't in India, and thus starting the school day based on solar time in India won't change anything in Alaska.
Time needs to work by the same rules for at least all people on earth.
I have no idea what you think this means. "At least all people in Earth" is a pretty meaningless statement. Who else would be involved? And your statement is not a fact in evidence, since we've been doing it with "different rules" (if you mean time zones and DST kinds of"rules") for generations.
Time should be made monotonic and we can worry about relativistic issues in the far future.
Oooh, big words that have nothing to do with anything at all. Other
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That makes zero sense. The start of the school day should be based on the sunrise time of that day? Only on slashdot.
So it should change over the year? On a monthly basis? Or weekly even? What about ending, based on sunset? So very short days in winter?
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Spain should really be on the same time as the UK going by its E-W position. Like Portugal is.
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You mean: 10% of Spain should be, like Portugal is .... the other 90% are east of GMT.
Hint: there are maps.
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Re: Timezones are antiquated and ignorant (Score:2)