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China Science

Around 2.2 Million Deaths in a Year in India and China From Air Pollution (cnbc.com) 123

India is on the verge of overtaking China as the country with the most deaths caused by air pollution, the world's biggest environmental killer, according to research published on Tuesday. From a report: The State of Global Air 2017 report states that extensive, long-term exposure to fine particulate matter contributed to more than four million premature deaths in 2015. The report is a joint effort between the Health Effects Institute and the Institute for Health Metrics and Evalution's Global Burden of Disease Project. "We are seeing increasing air pollution problems worldwide," Dan Greenbaum, president of the Health Effects Institute, said in a statement. "The trends we report show that we have seen progress in some parts of the world -- but serious challenges remain," Greenbaum went on to add. The report's analysis showed that India -- with extra exposure and its aging population -- now competes with China in terms of air pollution health burdens. Both countries saw around 1.1 million early deaths due to air pollution in 2015.
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Around 2.2 Million Deaths in a Year in India and China From Air Pollution

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  • by bazmail ( 764941 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:27PM (#53867783)
    ... but what kind of doctor will attribute a particular death to air pollution? There is no question that air quality is very poor and heavy industry shits on people in certain areas but pulling a hard number like that out of it is odd.
    • by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:32PM (#53867817)

      Presumably the air pollution is coming from some activities that raise living standards to afford clean water, public hospitals, health insurance, and reduced crime. Can we have a figure on how many lives are saved by air pollution as well?

      Yes in an ideal world we can have both so it's important to recognize air pollution is more than an eyesore.

      • by XXongo ( 3986865 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:59PM (#53868419) Homepage

        Presumably the air pollution is coming from some activities that raise living standards to afford clean water, public hospitals, health insurance, and reduced crime.

        Nope.

        In India, the worst of the air pollution is generated from burning fields after harvest. There are other technologies to clear the fields, such as a tractor-mounted seeder, which is actually better for the fields, as well as for the air-- but they cost over a thousand dollars each, far too much for the small farmers.

        http://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi/delhi-chokes-on-smoke-from-neighbouring-states/story-zAkXkflle5MoUXLNYfZa0H.html
        http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/delhi-air-poolution-in-haryana-farmers-say-burning-fields-their-only-option-3739415/
        https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/03/world/asia/farmers-unchecked-crop-burning-fuels-indias-air-pollution.html?_r=0

        • Nope Nope.
          they are earning their standard of living by farming. If they can't have a tractor then they have to burn. So you made the point you just said nope to.

      • We certainly aren't going to take away clean water, etc from people just to cut down on pollution, but we can reduce the amount of pollution generated by those services. We have good ways of making clean electricity for clean water and hospital power. I don't think we're ready for electric ambulances or shipping yet. And we definitely won't have electric LifeFlight helicopters soon.
      • Presumably the air pollution is coming from some activities that raise living standards to afford clean water, public hospitals, health insurance, and reduced crime. Can we have a figure on how many lives are saved by air pollution as well?

        Yes in an ideal world we can have both so it's important to recognize air pollution is more than an eyesore.

        If you're going to take that line of logic, might as well label the deaths caused by air pollution as a good thing because it's a form of population control.

        In fact, causing death is viewed by many governments as a necessary component of resource management, which is the reason we'll probably see some pointless volley of politics back and forth on this, but nothing actually done about the overall problem.

      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        What makes you think the benefits are accruing to the masses?

      • We can easily have one without the other, your iPhone just costs a bit more (and really just a bit, Motorola was building phones cleanly and profitably in the states but moved back to China because it was so much cheaper). Anyway nice straw man.
      • I hear a lot of the pollution from India in the winter is from night watchmen in commercial establishments who burn little wood fires to stay warm. Incredibly polluting relative to the benefits, but apparently they don't have a better option.

        India seems to be at the "sweet spot" where they are developed enough to create tons of pollution but aren't developed enough to eliminate it. China is a little further along, they have started taking significant steps to minimize pollution.

    • the same doctors who attribute death to heart attack, cancer or a bullet. Different types of pollution - aka poisons - leave indicators just as any other cause: marks, scars, breathing difficulties, impaired immune systems, cancers, retardation, elevated heavy metal levels are all quantifiable.
    • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      ... but what kind of doctor will attribute a particular death to air pollution? There is no question that air quality is very poor and heavy industry shits on people in certain areas but pulling a hard number like that out of it is odd.

      Why are you talking about doctors? I'd expect this data to be gathered by epidemiologists. I'd expect it to come from studies like "here is one sample population with X level of pollution, here is a demographically similar sample population with Y level of pollution, and we observe the following medical difference trends between the two populations".

      • by mspohr ( 589790 )

        You're right. No doctor puts "air pollution" as the cause of death.
        They put, lung disease, heart disease, cancer, etc.
        Epidemiologists give us the big picture.

    • These estimates are usually done by comparing health and death rates in polluted and non-polluted areas, and then calculating the "excess" deaths that could be attributed to the pollution (after controlling for a range of other factors).
  • Just as an FYI the total number of deaths from every single cause in the US is about 2.5 million per year.
  • by sethaw ( 598206 ) <sethaw@yahoo.com> on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:41PM (#53867881)
    Here is the actual report: State of Global Air 2017 [stateofglobalair.org]
  • on a per capita basis vs. other industrialized countries.
  • as terrorist attacks in the United States!

  • Plutocrat: "Ahh, I love the smell of dereg in the morning. Smells like ... profits!"

  • You know, you would think with all those uber intelligent STEM field pros in India they could solve such a problem. I mean that's why we want those geniuses to come over here and work in Silicon Valley.
    • by ghoul ( 157158 )

      Well most of them are in the US. Outsourcing has affected Indian industrial growth in a bad way. Since IT jobs make so much most civil and mechanical engineers have moved to coding and an entire generation of progress has been lost in India. Banning the H1 would probably help India's development a lot though it would personally suck for those who have to go back.

      • by zifn4b ( 1040588 )

        Well most of them are in the US. Outsourcing has affected Indian industrial growth in a bad way. Since IT jobs make so much most civil and mechanical engineers have moved to coding and an entire generation of progress has been lost in India. Banning the H1 would probably help India's development a lot though it would personally suck for those who have to go back.

        Interesting idea but I don't think it holds up because H-1B is only a temporary work visa for 3 years right? You think Indians are only geniuses for that long and then when they go back they are just like "duhhhhhhhh". 3 year prime is pretty short methinks.

  • That's what happens when people are too stupid to recognize when they should stop having children.

    Whenever I see ads to "feed the poor children" I think that it would be a better idea to send books to women and condoms to men.

    Mod me down if you please. Overpopulation is a very important subject, it will dictate whether our future will be shitty or extra shitty but it's somehow politically incorrect to even mention this topic.

    • by ghoul ( 157158 )

      India has a very active population control program. Condoms, pills and abortions are provided for free by the govt. Most educated people have 1-2 kids and even the villages have stopped having large families. In fact India is not at 2.1 children/woman fecundity so essentially replacement rate though the population will keep growing through 2050 as the large mass of young people have kids but after that it will start falling. The best way to feed the children is by generating jobs for their parents rather th

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